Audi B5 420-R: The Build. - Car Talk (10) - Nairaland
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Audi B5 420-R DTM: The Build / The Official Audi B5 RS4 Avant Thread! / Official Audi B5 RS4 "Outlaw" Sedans Around The World Thread (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 8:18pm On Jul 24, 2015 |
Update: 24th July 2015. I got a call from the paint shop, whilst still at work, that my valve covers were ready. So it was a bit of a crazy rush to drive there during my lunch break, to pick them up. I'm pleased with the finish and colour match. These will be refitted tomorrow at some point. I am going to start on the aluminium components on the engine. I figured if I buffed them to a clean state, it won't be long before they go dull again. So I have opted to paint them in the original aluminium silver once they're cleaned. I was also lucky to stumble upon a set of front and rear brake rotors and pads. The rears are no good to me, being for a FWD A4, with bearings, ABS rings and pads. I'll sell them on. However, the fronts are a bit more interesting - the rotors are D2 A8 312mm items. I just need to purchase a set of Audi A6 C5 or TT 1st gen. front caliper carriers, then they're ready to bolt up to my B5. These are temporary, as I will be running B5 RS4 360mm front rotors, with Brembo 4/6 piston calipers. Some pictures:    D2 A8 312mm front rotors, and OEM B5 V6 pads:    1 Like |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 1:50pm On Jul 26, 2015 |
Update: 26th July 2015. I have just installed my freshly-painted valve covers, cleaned and painted some of the aluminium. I have not bothered polishing the air con compressor, as I won't be using it. The D3 A8 aircon compressor is the variable displacement type, while the B5 A4 V6 is fixed displacement with a conventional magnetic clutch. So I will be installing the B5 compressor in the same location. The same goes for the D3 A8's combined oil cooler and filter housing. The D3 runs a paper oil filter element, while the C5 A6/S6 is a conventional metal spin-on canister, which I prefer. More importantly, the C5 V8 A6/S6 housing integrates the right hand side engine mounting bracket, so I'm going to use one of these. Some pictures:      |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 2:03pm On Jul 26, 2015 |
Colour matched pretty well, considering the car is 15-years-old, and it's never had a respray:     |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 8:56pm On Jul 27, 2015 |
Update: 27th July 2015. Today, I discovered how different the 4.2 V8 from the D3 A8 Quattro (BFM) is from the regular 077 series, more than I thought. It IS an 077 series V8, on the surface, it appears to have more in common with the 079 series V8 in the B6 S4, obviously without the B6's garbage multiple chains. Similar intake plenum, fuel rail, coil packs, exhaust manifolds. But this is where the similarities end. The 4.2 V8 block from the D3 A8 is actually based upon the 4.2 V8 Biturbo from the C5 RS6. The RS6 V8 has a block which is unique to it's application. At least it did until the D3 cars were produced. The RS6 C5 V8 has a larger block, where it bolts to the transmission bell housing, to accommodate the much larger torque converter, which is shared with the W12 Audi A8 and Volkswagen Phaeton. I spent the day comparing the RS6 and D3 V8 motors, and the rear ends are the same. Down to the casting marks on the sides of the blocks, they came from the same cast. Same bell housing bolt patterns that need some fettling to mate them to an 01E. I will be posting pictures as I proceed, this will be of help to someone else here who is also looking to run a BFM V8 in his B5. |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 6:27am On Jul 28, 2015 |
As promised. Removed! Nice work on your upgrade sir. Best Regards. |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 7:24am On Jul 28, 2015 |
The solution lies with a decent technician. I would NOT trust your current mechanic to lubricate the wheel bearing on a wheel barrow, if he's gotten you to replace all the parts you mentioned randomly, without following proper test procedures. He's working blind, costing you money, and using your car for practice. ECU? I doubt it. If that doesn't work, as I know it won't, he'll be suggesting you replace the engine with a 1.6 carburetor motor from a 1985 Toyota Corolla. Take your car to a certified technician, pay more before this guy reduces your Mitsubishi to a pile of rubble that you wouldn't be able to give away. |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 9:44pm On Jul 28, 2015 |
Thank you. Point taken |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 7:04pm On Aug 01, 2015 |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by XerXesNG(m): 10:13pm On Aug 03, 2015 |
I didn't know this had a thread. Reading up and following keenly. Edit Wow! Exhilarating! |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 7:02am On Aug 04, 2015 |
XerXesNG: Thanks bud! See you on the other side. |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 10:34pm On Aug 04, 2015 |
Update: 04th August, 2015. I ordered an engine cradle, and it arrived today. My A8 4.2 V8 has been on my engine stand. Fine for working on just the motor, but it sucks if you wish to bolt the transmission to the engine. I need to bolt the engine and transmission together, to sort out some of the bolts. Remember, the BFM motor shares its basic block structure with the 4.2 Biturbo from the C5 RS6, meaning some work is required for 3 bolts that don't line up with the mounting holes in an 01E 6-speed manual. I also purchased a scissor transmission lift, and it was delivered today too. Engine cradle: you can actually use it as a test rig, if you wish to run the motor out of the chassis.   Transmission scissor lift:   |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 10:35pm On Aug 04, 2015 |
As I have stated previously, I have extensive experience with the 32 and 40V 077 V8 engines, including swapping them into various VAG chassis. But this motor is different. The V8 from the D3 Audi A8 continues to reveal surprises, and other unexpected attributes. As many may know, the 4.2 V8 40V from the C5 S6 is very different from the 4.2 V8 40V from the C5 A6. The same differences exist between the same V8 engines from the D2 S8 and A8. Besides the obvious differences between the standard and S cars - bigger injectors, more aggressive camshafts in the S engines, the variable intakes were also different, 3-stage in the non-S engines, dual stage in the S engines. Now, with the D3 V8 engines, there was no S8. Pre-2005 (FSI) the V8 engines were split into two. 3.7 and 4.2 40V. At first, the differences between the 2 engines is their capacity. This is what I also assumed. However, the differences are greater. The D3 A8 3.7 runs a 3-stage variable intake manifold, in much the same way as the C5 A6 / D2 A8 4.2 did. The D3 A8 4.2 is different, and the variable intake plenum is the same dual-stage unit that was fitted to the C5 / D2 S engines. This effectively means the C5 / D2 S engine ECU's can be used for the D3 4.2 V8 40V, opening up more flexible tuning options. I'm going to check the camshaft specification between the C5 / D3 S engines, and the 4.2 V8 40V from the D3 A8. 1 Like |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 9:04pm On Aug 10, 2015 |
Update: 10th August, 2015. So this weekend, the remains of my 2005 D3 4.2 Quattro Sport was picked up by the junk man, and for the first time since we acquired this property, I could actually see all the walls. Lots of storage space too. My D3 loaded up, on it's final journey. I was surprised these guys didn't get busted by the cops when they hit the road, so much over hang, made worse by the fact their truck was NOT built for picking up cars. As the front suspension was all gone, it was a battle wrestling the shell onto the back of their truck. Uber overhang!   And my workspace:              Assorted engine harnesses, ranging from 2000 B5 S4, 1998 D2 S8 and 2003 B6 S4:  1 Like |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 10:07pm On Aug 10, 2015 |
As some of you guys may remember, I mentioned the D3 A8 BFM V8 shares cylinder block dimensions with the C5 RS6. As in it's larger at the rear, where it bolts to the transmission. Many RS6 owners who have looked into converting their cars to 01E 6-speed have also had issues when it comes to a bolt-in solution. After examining the rear of my D2 S8 AHC motor (32V) and comparing it with my D3 A8 BFM (40V), bar the starter motor hoop, the BFM block is no larger. What the RS6, and D3 A8 engines have is an extra set of holes to mount to the much larger Tiptronic bell housing. These holes are on the outside of the ones that would usually accept an 01E. The 32V S8 motor also has these extra holes, though they are not used in an S8 with Tip. I am going to bolt my 01E to the BFM engine, using the 5 bolts holes that DO match, then drill and tap the extra holes. The BFM flexi plate, like the C5 RS6 is larger than the regular 30/40V items, so the starter motor will not work on an S4 B5 / 40V flywheel. I have ordered an S6 C5 starter motor. I am going to make a template from my 32V block, then drill / machine the starter motor area on my D3 4.2 V8. Starter motor should be here sometime this week. The three holes in the upper oil pan do not mate to the 01E either, so I am constructing an adapting bracket, not to be confused with an adapter plate that is commonly used for manual swaps in the C5 RS6, but also has the added disadvantage of pushing the big V8 further forward than I'd like. I will take pictures of the process. |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 7:51am On Aug 11, 2015 |
Mr Seina do you take consultation advice from an Audi centre before you make some slight modifications on engines such as d drilling of extra holes for the bell housing and won't it affect the engine performance or worse not fit into the engine bay? |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 3:03pm On Aug 11, 2015 |
dumo1: To answer your question, no. I do my own research by measuring, and implimenting. Besides, no Audi dealership would help, not because they don't want to. More because they wouldn't know. No effect on performance. As for not fitting the engine bay, no concerns there, as I have done 2 Audi A4 B5 V8 swaps to date, a conversion I pioneered back in 2008.  1 Like |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 12:54pm On Aug 17, 2015 |
I spoke to a shop that has made me one-off Carbon Fibre parts in the past. I would like to get the front and rear top engine covers made out of the good stuff. Just waiting on pricing. |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by ivoryhouse(m): 1:07pm On Aug 17, 2015 |
Siena:Way to go bruv,your engine looks amazing,and I love your garrage (especially with so many tools lying around). You are an inspiration, keep it up! |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 2:29pm On Aug 17, 2015 |
ivoryhouse: Thanks man. I trust the Land Rovers are running just great.  |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by ivoryhouse(m): 8:10pm On Aug 20, 2015 |
Siena:Yes, just great. Getting set to continue the restoration project! |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 1:14am On Aug 27, 2015 |
ivoryhouse: Awesome! Please don't forget to take loads of pictures.  |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 1:42am On Aug 27, 2015 |
Update: 27th August, 2015. My apologies for my lack of regular updates, been super busy with work and even more exams. I placed an order for a single-mass steel flywheel. I could have saved myself a stack of dough, and used my original 2.8 30V flywheel, with an OEM 2.8 clutch, but I opted not to do so for a number of reasons. Being a dual-mass unit, the original flywheel is designed for smoothness and comfort, absorbing vibration. Unfortunately, this design is not built for high-torque application, and it can't be resurfaced - at least not by many shops. It is also insanely heavy for what it is. Worse of all, using the 2.8 30V flywheel will limit me to running a 2.4/2.8 30V clutch, which I would rather not do. The steel flywheel I have ordered is specific to the 4.2 V8 40V, and designed to run a B5 S4 / RS4 clutch. Unlike the B5 S4 / RS4 though, it does NOT require the S4's engine-to-transmission spacer to provide clearance between the clutch pressure plate and bell housing, being dome 11mm slimmer. This should be with me by Saturday. My D2 S8 ECU also arrived on the 24th August, I'll be sending it off to get the immobiliser defeated. I know the 2.8 V6 30V twin catalytic converters and combined downpipes are a direct bolt-on fitment to the 4.2 V8 40V motor. But they will strangle performance, due to their bore size and the surface area the catalysts provide. I'm contemplating purchasing a pair of stainless 200 cell race catalysts from Germany. I can then have the rest of the exhaust system built from the CATS rearwards. I'll post pictures soon. |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by XerXesNG(m): 10:34am On Aug 29, 2015 |
Exciting as usual! |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 2:49pm On Aug 29, 2015 |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 3:00pm On Aug 29, 2015 |
Update: 29th August, 2015. I have been considering different exhaust options for B5 420-R. My original V6 30V exhaust system WILL bolt up to the V8 40V. But...it will be restrictive, as the bore size of 2.25" is undersized for a V engine above 3.0L. It will also not sound as good, a flat-sounding V8 is not cool! So I ended up purchasing a B5 S4 stainless 2.5" system with twin 3" tips. This is a CAT-back system, so I also purchased B6 S4 stainless steel downpipes. These are CAT-deletes, but I have the option of purchasing a pair of 200 CPSI sport CAT's to weld in, if I so choose. The downpipes are coming in from Germany. Some pictures. Note, these are the original advert pictures. B6 S4 stainless steel downpipes:  B5 S4 stainless steel CAT-back system:  |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by tunergy(m): 3:33pm On Aug 29, 2015 |
Siena: This is Principality Nice! |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 9:45pm On Aug 29, 2015 |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 9:46pm On Aug 29, 2015 |
I'm currently eying a pair of Magnaflow 59956 metallic 200 CPSI sport catalysts. |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 8:16pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
Update: 03rd September, 2015. So my exhaust system turned up today. Quite a well-made system. As I mentioned previously, the downpipes are for the B6/7 S4. Trying to test fit one to my BFM manifold highlighted another difference. The BFM manifolds have the studs slightly wider apart. This could be resolved by slotting the holes on the B6 S4 downpipe collars, but there was a more obvious difference. The D3 4.2 V8 manifolds have conventional stainless steel laminate gaskets. The B6 S4 manifolds have integral domed fire rings, and of course the downpipes have flared ends to match. It will be easy enough to weld in a pair 2.8 30V downpipe ends to the B6 pipes, but I can't really be bothered to do this, when an easier solution lies within reach. Buy a pair of B6/7 exhaust manifolds. Which is what I'm doing. I did consider pulling the trigger on a set of tubular headers, but I don't want to run into fitment issues on a street car. I might go the tubular route though on my DTM car. Pictures!      |
| Re: Audi B5 420-R: The Build. by Nobody: 8:41pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
Update: 04th September, 2015. My C5 RS6 aluminium subframe turned up a couple of days ago, encrusted with baked-on oil and dirt. I marvel at how some sellers will ship items out in such a state. Now I know the C5 S6/RS6 aluminium subframe is dimensionally different to that fitted to I4 and V6 models, including the B5. The front mounting bushes will bolt up to a B5, the rear bushes are however slightly further back, and slightly further apart. I will address that discrepancy one way or the other. To this effect, I am purchasing a stock B5 V6 subframe. I will use this as a mini-jig to modify the C5 S6/RS6 aluminium item to fit the B5. Some may question my decision to purchase a B5 V6 subframe, when I could use mine as a jig. My reasoning here is DOWNTIME. I would rather get everything ready to fit, rather than waste time with R&d with my car in bits. Besides, B5 subframes are so cheap to buy used, and there are tons of them on eBay. Some pictures. The original eBay photograph. Absolutely filthy, really oily and crusty:  After a session with my local car wash, it looked like this:    I then ran a selection of rotary brass wire brushes over it to remove some staining the dilute acids used at the car wash couldn't shift, used a bunch of panel wipes to remove dust, then laid down a coat of primer, followed by 3 coats of Audi Aluminium Silver:     Much easier working with a clean subframe. I am looking at offset corrective rear subframe bushes. 1 Like |
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