Can you translate "Messiah" in your other tongue and provide suitable reasons? Messiah is the transliteration of the original Hebrew (Ewe) word and Christ is the translation. For instance the Yoruba translation "Kristi" in my opinion is meaningless and is a result of not seeking and asking questions. Let us embrace our mother tongue in this regard and enjoy the journey.

Messiah in Igbo is "onye nzoputa" which literally means "saviour".

Amor4ce,

That's a new one for me!  I suspect this will end up in the Yoruba tongue sooner or later, just as we have established that Are - Yoruba Army General - is the title from which the zodiac sign Aries came from and the two share symbolism with the ram.  Ram being the symbol of Aries and ram being the totem for the Esho - Yoruba Army.

So, my friend, please educate us on this Messiah in the mother tongue.

Messiah=Olugbala-saviour in Yoruba Language

I don't yet know what Messiah is in the Yoruba tongue, but it is not Olugbala as that has to do with salvation. The syllable "la" has to do with salvation; Olu has to do with the collective Head as in Oluwa though I have yet to find out what the "lu" actually represents; and the "gba" is like a verb for which I don't yet have the proper translation. Messiah is more like the Anointed One.

The Igbo translation supplied by Odumchi may also not be correct as he mentioned that onye nzoputa means saviour just like Olugbala. Besides, both Odumchi and Ifeleke did not back up their answers with reasons.

Negro_Nations, do you know where the number 12 is mentioned seriously in the Yoruba traditions apart from 16? I wonder if the answer is in the Yoruba names of the 12 months of the solar calendar.

Amor4ce,

On the 12, the only thing I know is the transcedental formation and symbolism of the number itself.  Sometimes we see it represented in arts to speak to the essense of human divinity and particularly of the 1-2-3 transition. It is also voiced in some Ifa verses where different attributes are given to cosmic energy opening up its blessings and grace through the 1-2 balance.  In the arts presented by anonymous on the bronze head, go and look. . . .there is a artwork of the King standing on one foot, the other foot interlocked with the two feet of the Queen. . . and their three visible feet is connected or grounded or rooted or planted into mother earth. . . .the garden of growth and prosperity. The Queen has her fingers pointed downward in a message. The Matrix! She becomes the rod, the conduit, the womb, the gateway, through which the energy of 1-2-3 flows into manifest.

As far as its occurrence in Yoruba numerology, I am not familiar.  This is not to say it does not occur, . . . .I just dont know it and I would love to learn if anyone find it. 

Here let me point something out since we are talking about numbers.  We know that the Yoruba alphabet as we have it now written in latin letters is only a standard adopted by literary needs to document ideas and knowledge in Yoruba.  Yoruba being a tonal language is cheated, in the sense that all the vowels and consonants and diphtongs we have are approximations of what they can best find in latin to represent. . . .not necessarily the actual equation of the tongue. 

Well, the same approximation and error that we encounter in alphabets also occured in our adaptation of arabic numerals.  Yoruba numbers is in base 2. Our full number series is completed in 16. 

To appreciate this knowledge look at this example counting from 10 to 100: 
Ewa- 10,
Ogun - 20,
Ogbon - 30,
Ogoji - 40 (20 x 2)
Adota - 50 (something x 3),
Ogota - 60 (20 x 3),
Adorin 70 (something x 4),
Ogorin - 80 (20 x 4),
Adorun - 90 (something x 5),
Ogorun - 100 (20 x 5).

You will notice that the 10 is disregarded for multiplication but the 20 is accepted,  . . ogun, ogun meji, ogun meta, ogun merin, and so on. . .

Likewise the 30 is ignored for multiples but something called "ADU" is adopted, as in. . . Adu meta, adu merin, adu marun. . . .

This adu is actually the number sixteen!

If you didvde 50 by 3, you get 16.666.  If you divide 70 by 4 you get 17.5.  Divide 90 by 5 and you get 18.  Our number system did not change but the result obtained by adopting the arabic numerals approximated them and resulted in error.

Amazingly, the two languages, latin and arabic also brought us Christianity and Islam.  Ifa has its own alphabet and numerology and is valid today.  If our academicians and literary giants will not become barriers to the idea, there is no reason we cannot return to our indigenous letters and numbers, now that we are educated and know the significance of philosophical thoughts to civilization and  cultural evolution.

I apologize if I diverted away from the main subject of your post.

OP, make it easier by offering an English translation.
I think its "onye mgbaputa" in igbo. Onye nzoputa is savior.

AL Massih in Arabic

agbanila- the saviour or deliverer=Messiah

Messiah means Anointed, not Saviour; thus we should look into the word(s) in our mother tongues used to describe the act of anointing or pouring/rubbing/smearing with perfumed oil or ointment or the indigenous substance used to signify divine influence in our communities/kingdoms.

Negro_Nations, the number erindinlogun or 16 is the complete perfect number, the complete square number. I got the info from the pages 603-611 of the book Odun Ifa. According to the author, Orunmila’s explaination of the numerology in found in Eji Ogbe. I want to believe that the names 12 gates or signs of the zodiac are strongly linked to the names of the 12 calendar months (perhaps tribes?). By the way, I have pre-emptively used the info you provided in the first paragraph on my blog but would remove it if you are not pleased with it. The info is very suitable for the Ife Bronzes thread and explains this Ife artwork. Perhaps when you feel its okay you can start a thread on Yoruba numerology.

Choosing to translate messiah as "the anointed one" instead of "saviour" in whatever language you choose may cause it to lose it's original connotation and meaning. Remember meanings tend to change as translations are changed. You're right in saying that the messiah literally means "the anointed one", but that's just it's literal meaning. In my opinion, the best translation that it can be given (while trying to resemble it's original Heberew translation) would be "saviour" since, after all, the anointed one is the saviour. This applies if you choose to translate it literally. But going contextually, I think "saviour" would best fit it.

That's just my opinion.

amor4ce:

Messiah means Anointed, not Saviour; thus we should look into the word(s) in our mother tongues used to describe the act of anointing or pouring/rubbing/smearing with perfumed oil or ointment or the indigenous substance used to signify divine influence in our communities/kingdoms.

Negro_Nations, the number erindinlogun or 16 is the complete perfect number, the complete square number. I got the info from the pages 603-611 of the book Odun Ifa. According to the author, Orunmila’s explaination of the numerology in found in Eji Ogbe. I want to believe that the names 12 gates or signs of the zodiac are strongly linked to the names of the 12 calendar months (perhaps tribes?). By the way, I have pre-emptively used the info you provided in the first paragraph on my blog but would remove it if you are not pleased with it. The info is very suitable for the Ife Bronzes thread and explains this Ife artwork. Perhaps when you feel its okay you can start a thread on Yoruba numerology.

The act of anointment if very significant and is why the Saviour is the Anointed. It is like saying that the Saviour cannot be the Saviour unless HE was Anointed. Remember that Daodu (David), an archetype or glimpse of the Messiah, was first anointed by God via Samuel before he ascended to the throne of Israel to save her from her enemies.

Negro_Nations, the number erindinlogun or 16 is the complete perfect number, the complete square number. I got the info from the pages 603-611 of the book Odun Ifa. According to the author, Orunmila’s explaination of the numerology in found in Eji Ogbe. I want to believe that the names 12 gates or signs of the zodiac are strongly linked to the names of the 12 calendar months (perhaps tribes?). By the way, I have pre-emptively used the info you provided in the first paragraph on my blog but would remove it if you are not pleased with it. The info is very suitable for the Ife Bronzes thread and explains this Ife artwork. Perhaps when you feel its okay you can start a thread on Yoruba numerology.

Bro, you are welcome to use any material I present here, on blog, in reference or whatever. What I provided in translation of that message is just a snapshot. . .but we will leave that for now.

@topic,

The root word is mashiach or mashiyach in Hebrew, from where we get Messiah. I thought Messiah was a title first of all. If it has come to symbolize anointing of the head. . . . .or a ritual act of placing hands on the head to knight, to bless, to enthrone, to initiate, to take on a new authority, . . .then we must start from the mother of all life giving energies - water!

But we know that water is used for spiritual cleansing. . . i.e. to symbolically renew! Anointing has nothing to do with renewing, but rather with transition in power and status. A ceremonial or political, rather than a spiritual status, hence the use of fragranced oil instead of water.

When you translate mashiach from Hebrew into Greek, it becomes Cristos. When you translate Cristos from Greek into English, it becomes Anointed.

What we should translate is Anointed. Since we dont know Hebrew or Greek. . . . .and our mother tongues cant find equation in English, I guess we will come close but never at the correct term.

If i should go with 'the anointed' for Messiah then its "Onye e tere mmanu" in Igbo.

Chief Negro,but even in the bible time,priests and kings were "anointed" with oil?
Water for cleansing. . .Yes but "Oil" for laying of hands on the head.I also thought "blood" is/was used for total cleansing,then and now?

Since those ruling in Israel today are fake jews, what then is the probability that Messiah is actually translated as Anointed? Perhaps we should ask our priests and historians what actions were taken in our kingdoms and communities that signified when a man had been chosen to serve as a royal father.

ifyalways:

If i should go with 'the anointed' for Messiah then its "Onye e tere mmanu" in Igbo.

Chief Negro,but even in the bible time,priests and kings were "anointed" with oil?
Water for cleansing. . .Yes but "Oil" for laying of hands on the head.I also thought "blood" is/was used for total cleansing,then and now?

Can you tell us why "Onye e tere mmanu" in Igbo is equivalent to 'the anointed'?

messiah is translated into english as 'savior' and 'olugbala' is the yoruba equivalent.

Messiah is said to mean 'Anointed.'
Why does Olugbala mean Saviour?

amor4ce:

Messiah is said to mean 'Anointed.'

there is a difference between literal and contextual translation. Anybody can be anointed. but only Jesus can be Messiah.
messiah therefore has a different meaning than being merely anointed; and savior is a more appropriate translation for messiah the way I understand the word.

Why does Olugbala mean Saviour?

olu =chief/ person-in-charge
Igbala = salvation

chief of salvation/ owner of salvation/ only person that can save

are you yoruba? what are you?

what or who?

what ethnicity are you? what are you?

what or who?

nevermind

maybe you should join boko- haram
translation :"book is evil"/ "western influence is evil"

Chief Negro. . . . . .

Chei! See as better person take address me.  See person wey get sense and beauty take recoginize me for nairaland.!  

Before I start let me anoint you, may God bless your right and your left, God bless your front and your behind. . . .     (I hear you already have plenty blessings in those areas, hahahahaha  ).  Chineke!  

Anyway, where was I?  Oh yeah,.  . . . ,  may God bless Ify and her husband and entire household.

Where is exotic?  Exotic, bring your behind in here and learn from Ify, you rascal!  

. . . .but even in the bible time,priests and kings were "anointed" with oil?
Water for cleansing. . .Yes but "Oil" for laying of hands on the head.I also thought "blood" is/was used for total cleansing,then and now?

You see, mankind is immersed in three realms - the earthly, the sublunary and the celestial.  I don’t know what you call it in Igbo, but in Yoruba it is called “aba meta”.

This three realms is what the Sabbath is about to commemorate with gratitude the Greatness of God.

The earthly energy forces mankind to relate with ego. The sublunary energy awakens mankind to the beauty and pleasantness of humility. The celestial unveils to mankind the truth of submission.

Anointing, as a ritual is in the sublunary realm.  This is where the collective ego (earthly beings) are imbued by the sublunary effect of beatification to humble their own ego in deference to another being.  Normally, ego is located in the chest, in the solar plexus.  When it is energized it rises up to the throat and expresses itself as an independent voice.  When it is subdued, it sinks below to the navel seeking support and renders its voice in a cause.  This sublunary effect is a very powerful force that subdues the ego, it gets the people intoxicated to the point of abandoning their own care and needs for the needs and interests of the anointed person, . . . . to the point that the anointed one can become an object of worship on the collective ego.   You can view MLK in that order and even Obama too.  If you agree that these two were anointed, then we must ask, who oiled their heads with the anointment tinxture?   The priest did not present MLK to the people and say here, I am laying hands on his head and anointing him with oil.  Accept and follow him.  Neither was that done to Obama.  So the anointment itself begins with the individual.  This is where the third realm comes in.  

The celestial has defined and elected a spirit for a purpose or a destiny.  Through living,  that purpose is gradually activated in that person. At a particular moment, the cosmos align social events to obey and bow to the efforts that this person is making.  The subduing of collective ego by the sublunary is part of this alignment and bowing to this individual.  The person’s status is elevated – a breakthrough moment!  The act of rubbing oil is just a physical ritual affirming what has already been decreed in the celestial realm.  Mankind has no power to anoint, but we only accept and support the anointed.  

Do you know why the serpent is significant in divine worship?  There are many reasons but primary among them is its ability to shed its skin and take on a brand new one.  The serpent new skin is already formed underneath and ready for the harsh elements before the old one is discarded. So there are two stages involved – a new that continues with the serpent and an old that is left behind to rot.

Likewise, mankind must have the wherewithal to shed old skin and enter into a new one.  There are rituals that make this possible.  Water is the cleansing. . . the new skin that we continue in.  Blood is the offering. . . . the atonement for past that we are leaving behind.


Again @ topic. . . .I dont know what will be the accurate way to describe anointment in Yoruba.  We may not have a word for anointment although we have consciousness of it.  Just like we did not have a word for evil but someone forced Esu as the translation for devil.

Thanks for the permission. What if the Yoruba forgot the corresponding words over time?

Oh no, something that significant to the destiny would not have been forgotten if we had it to begin with.

I know this is a general topic for all participants, I dont want to be the only contributor so out of respect for other's views, I will make this my last response for a while so others can share.

The ritual of anointing concentrates on the head. Why the head? Yoruba has an answer to this question. It is to be found on the sacredness of Ori (head) in Yoruba philosophy. In our manuscript of nature, Ifa, as well as in our alchemy and esotericism, Ori is held as a deity unto itself. So if you look in my response about the individual that was pre-chosen by the celestial force. . . .this is that individual's ori. The Ori was already decreed by the heavens, the earthly beings then accept it and this acceptance is carried out in a formal ceremony by placing hand on that ori and rubbing oil on it.

I will take you back to the bronze heads. Anonymous, if you are reading this, may God Bless you again for that work. . .and you too Physics for inspiring it. The bronze heads serve two objectives.

1. They give aesthetic form and pleasantness to the physical senses - harmony and balance!
2. They are symbols. They are the keys that open a door that leads into a room that contains the vaults in which the doctrines and secrets, myths and deeds, root and history, customs and philosophies of our people are buried - the 16th order!

Every one of them is superbly beautiful. Look at the details given to the heads and the crowns sitting on the heads. I don't want to drag this into long response. Let me close.

So again, ori is too significant in our cosmic awareness for us to forget anyword connected with its ritual. More than likely we have a different concept for anointing and a word and meaning exist for that, or anointing does not exist as a word with meaning in Yoruba.

Haven't we Yoruba forgotten Olodumare's personal name? I have read a document in which the claim was put forward that the Egun, Fon and Ewe name for God is Yehve/Yihve. Perhaps when I have the opportunity I would ask our kith and kin (Eww, Fon, Gun) from Ghana, Togo and Benin for their insight in this matter of anointing.
The tribal warriors of Nairaland should show us what stuff they have inside with their own contributions to this thread as well. Front page?

Amor4ce, you are running an open topic, stay clean. lol!

I understand. I'll try to search for materials online documenting the traditional uses of the ram's horn by the Yoruba. I want to assume that it is quite possible that our people forgot, going by what Jeroboam did in times past (1 Kings 12:26-33). As for the importance of Ori, this was also further emphasized when the Spirit of God descended upon the divine Daodu (Eni to da odu le; a revelation; He gave us the 16 odu) upon His baptism with water, and when tongues of fire appeared on the heads of His disciples during that 1st Pentecost after He ascended to heaven.

amor4ce:

Since those ruling in Israel today are fake jews, what then is the probability that Messiah is actually translated as Anointed? Perhaps we should ask our priests and historians what actions were taken in our kingdoms and communities that signified when a man had been chosen to serve as a royal father.Can you tell us why "Onye e tere mmanu" in Igbo is equivalent to 'the anointed'?

The literal translation of anointed in Igbo is "onye etere nmanu" meaning the one who oil was applied upon. Another less literal translation is "onye agoziri agozi" meaning one who is blessed.

Is it translated thus in Igbo-language Bibles? If so I would say it is a welcome development. Any chance the act of anointing has never been strange to Igbo culture?

It turns out that "Messiah" and "Christ" are fabrications by the oyinbo/Amorites who cannot read the ancient script used by Jacobs's people. Sojobi wrote on his blog that Messiah is actually IMISI IYE. IYE is the Name these Amorites write as EHYE or IHYE, and in Psalm 68:4, Isaiah 12:2, 26:4 and 38:11 as YAH. Also, the Amorites translated I AM WHO I AM in Exodus 3:14 from EHYE ASHER EHYE, the R in ASHER being of a technique used by the [b]Hell[/b]enists (Greco-Romans) to alter Biblical names by padding with consonants to the right. ASHER is actually Àṣẹ Yoruba as pronounced by the Yorùbá.

Thus, Messiah does not mean anything like "Anointed", but IMISI IYE means something like 'breath of life from IYE'. This corresponds with the declaration about 2,000 years ago from [url=http://yemitom./2012/07/15/e%e1%b9%a3u-is-the-true-name-of-the-rock-of-ages/]Èṣú who is the Rock[/url] (written by the synagogue of satan as Yeshu and Yeshua and vainly replaced with Zeus/JeZeus/Jesus) that He came to give life.