Havertz10:
have you added them yourself?

Havertz10:
I agree that Chelsea got weaker but I wouldn't agree that Chelsea team in the 2000s exerted dominance that's the crux of the entire argument

They won the league twice in 10 years, in a league that was relatively weak

They got to only 1 final, and back then the main competitors in the champions league mostly appeared in the semi final, I can't find a single metric that shows their dominance asides the names of the players and the hype that people built around them

BlueMann:



Of course I've added them na, I've been saying it since.

Okay, let's break down Havertz's assists:

According to the UCL's official website, he had three assists. I'm guessing they came against Sevilla, Real Madrid (surprised they counted that one) and one other team...maybe in the 4-0 against Krasnodar.

Had one against Morecambe in the FA Cup.

Three in the PL: CHO against Man City, CHO against West Brom and Pulisic against Palace.

That's seven. Plus nine goals is 16 G/A. The other two they're adding were penalties won against Palace and Everton.


It's the same for Werner. Officially, Timo didn't have 27 G/A. Some of the assists were penalties won as well.

Hope you get now?

Havertz10:
exactly, look at the big picture, league back then was poor, same argument comes up when lebron James is compared to Micheal Jordan, although they are individual players but you have to consider externalities

Sports evolve, its supposed comparatively get better not worst, the present will always be better than the past

BlueMann:
aLlLLLLllL cOmPeTiTiOnS

Iffa call thunder for u eh

Havertz10:
yeah, did mount win any penalty, cause I added his and I also arrived at 16G/A

monerozi5590:



Airmark, what are you saying?... I watched all those guys in Madrid. Beckham and Owen didn't even see quarter final in the UCL with Real Madrid. From2005 to 2010 we didn't cross the round of 16.post 2010 was stronger.

From 2011 to 2021 we made 9 semi finals appearances in the UCL and won 4
From 2000 to 2010, we made 3 semi finals and won 2.

Havertz10:
Some old men wouldn't evolve

Celebrating mediocrity of the past

Dating back to the 1950s

2000s was one the least competitive era of premier league football

Top 4 strandings remained relatively unchanged and the gap between the top teams and the rest was vast

We are looking at real data, that one keeps talking about what he watched

Ibime:


The more money does not necessarily translate into better players in comparison, all it means is players charge more for salary and other leagues charge more for transfer fees. Europa League performance is still a decent arbiter for the strength of the midtable.

Top players still go to top clubs and mid-level players still go to mid-level clubs. All those Tyrone Ming's, Matt Target and Matty Cash that Aston Villa paid £16-£30m from Championship are no different calibre to Joleon Lescott and Phil Jagielka that Everton paid £4m for in the 2000s. What of Sylvain Distin and Yobo for £4m? Distin and Lescott as LCB are better than Mings who cost £25m.

Aston Villa are now paying £35m apiece for the Championship best players in Ollie Watkins and Buendia while Spurs picked up Championship best players in Carrick and Defoe for £3m and £7m respectively. The best attacking midfielder in the Championship Tim Cahill will move to Everton for £3m then, today Buendia is costing £33m.

The £20m Villa paid for Traore who was not a sure starter in Lyon is no different than West Ham paying £3m for Freddie Kanoute or Fulham buying Louis Saha.

Spurs back then can pick up a UCL runner up and Bundesliga top striker like Berbatov for £11m, today it will cost £50m, or a Luka Modric for £16m that will cost £40m today. Where they pay £5m for Championships most promising left-back in Gareth Bale then, they are now paying £20m for Sessegnon who is not as good.

Croatia league top scorer and bonafide hitman like Viduka can come to Leeds for £4m, likewise a solid French DM like Olivier Dacourt for £7m who is better than most French DMs moving for £40m today.

Players like Ashley Young and James Milner who Villa would pick for £7m will be charged at £30m today.

Even back then, top legends like Fernando Hierro, Djorkaeff, Okocha and Ivan Campo come to Bolton to play their last three years, nowadays EPL can't afford their salary so they go to China, Qatar, USA.

In other words, the TV money has made no difference to the quality of the midtable. Top players still go to top clubs and midtable pay over the odds for what's left.

There is a difference between experiencing these things and revising them on Wikipedia.

I know for sure you can't be hitting 99 points regularly in EPL back then, much less both Liverpool and City taking 97 and 98 points in the same season. That just means the rest of the league is weaker[b], or too many teams are trying to be a poor mans Barcelona.[/b] Back then, teams like Bolton, Villa, Everton and co will scalp points off those teams with dogged performances, these days even relegation candidates are trying to play like Barcelona and taking 5-0 hammerings.

donstan18:

I actually agree with him that Chelsea had better players then, but I think the league became tougher lately.

Havertz10:
Manchester city and psg have made it to the semi final repeatedly over the last few seasons, I don't understand what you are talking about, winning the champions league takes more than money, even with all the talent, you still need luck

donstan18:

What of that Everton guy, nobody wan reason am?

Havertz10:
Manchester city and psg have made it to the semi final repeatedly over the last few seasons, I don't understand what you are talking about, winning the champions league takes more than money, even with all the talent, you still need luck

Greatihex:
My friend stop talking nonsense. Anything you did not witness in football you should not talk about it.

Many things in football contribute to teams not winning trophies. Great teams have passed and failed to win trophies as expected of them.
Little mistake in football and you lose the trophy or chance to advance in a competition.
Coach is another thing.
Imagine a great squad like that of Manchester City getting whooped every now and then by underdogs. Imagine getting flogged by fucking Lyon and Tottenham bottling company. Chelsea and Manchester United, and Liverpool underperformance is the reason Manchester City won last season league.

If epl teams are actually putting up any kind of challenge, how can man City and Liverpool be amassing the kind of ridiculous points they are amassing these days? 96, 97,98 100. Just imagine. Which Okoko does not know that Man it'd, Arsenal and Chelsea are now shadows of themselves.

Sniper04:
What if tuchel changes James position next season make everyone chill,e fit play 6 too

popizaino:



If my memory serves me right the last time they made UCL semi finals before this season was Pellegrini's last season when madrid knocked them out,so what is the repeatedly there ?

lusid:
pre 2010 real was stronger but complacent. Post 2010 real was also strong however ordinary without the contributions of ronaldo

Unlimited22:

This is exactly what I'm thinking. Especially with the emergence of Valentino Livramento.

In his final loan season at Wigan he played in midfield half the time. He might want to convert the guy to a DM along with filling in at RCB, RB and RWB where necessary. If he does that and gets a top 9 and Hakimi whilst clearing out the Deadwood we might be set.

I still want a CF, DM and possibly CB though before Hakimi. I still think Marc Guehi, Ian Maatsen, Malang Sarr, Xavier Mbuyamba, Juan Castillo and Even Billy Gilmour and Ethan Ampadu are not ready to be thrown into the deep end just yet.

Havertz10:
you will just pick one angle and run with that

i'm talking about how difficult it is to qualify for the champions league

it's a challenge for most top teams compared to back then that only a few teams got it regularly


City and liverpool had to amass those crazy numbers cause that's the requirement and level of performance required to win the league these days

Greatihex:
which tougher. Man City and Liverpool running away with league while others watch on. 25 points gap at some point.

monerozi5590:



Airmark, what are you saying?... I watched all those guys in Madrid. Beckham and Owen didn't even see quarter final in the UCL with Real Madrid. From2005 to 2010 we didn't cross the round of 16.post 2010 was stronger.

From 2011 to 2021 we made 9 semi finals appearances in the UCL and won 4
From 2000 to 2010, we made 3 semi finals and won 2.

lusid:
pre 2010 real was stronger but complacent. Post 2010 real was also strong however ordinary without the contributions of ronaldo

Havertz10:
imagine

More money means premier league teams can take good players from other leagues because they can pay more

It means better players

You are not very bright honestly

Havertz10:
add their national team stats, that's why I said all competitions

lalaboi:

na me o. Balogun of Russia! I greet you. .

and yes, champions of Europe . . .all join!

Havertz10:
both city and psg have had good runs in the competition over the last 5 seasons compared to most teams

But I was referring to psg in particular, corrected it

Havertz10:
you will just pick one angle and run with that

i'm talking about how difficult it is to qualify for the champions league

it's a challenge for most top teams compared to back then that only a few teams got it regularly


City and liverpool had to amass those crazy numbers cause that's the requirement and level of performance required to win the league these days

Havertz10:
Some old men wouldn't evolve

Celebrating mediocrity of the past

Dating back to the 1950s

2000s was one the least competitive era of premier league football

Top 4 strandings remained relatively unchanged and the gap between the top teams and the rest was vast

We are looking at real data, that one keeps talking about what he watched