Ibime:


I don't like discussing nonsense with ignorant people

You have already shown enough ignorance for one day

Czech Republic reached the final in 1962

Soviet Union knocked out England in Group stage in 1958, beating them 2-0, why didn't you mention that. They were Olympic Champions and Euro Champions. So you have Brazil, England, Soviet Union and Austria in the group.

All you need to know is these were the top 16 teams that came through qualifying. If anybody is better than them, they would have qualified ahead of them. They are nothing like Iran, Bosnia and Nigeria.

We will not go into history lesson to satisfy your ignorance.

Alright I don hear you.

Messi is set to be eternalized on Pele's playground.


You can't force these things. It's just GOAT doings

popizaino:




Why should someone be offended by facts,there is nothing to have offended any south American player there, because what Mbappe said was the truth and he said it in the modest of way. None of the south American players have refuted that claim or acted angrily to it,you are just the one looking for what's not. South americans players are the ones vying to play in Europe and not vice versa and that automatically makes their league less competitive than Europe. South American countries consider players playing outside their league in their national teams before those playing in the league or else the Brazilian and Argentine teams will be filled with players from Gremio,international and River plate respectively. That is another prove that they themselves consider the European league more superior than their local leagues.

Do the players in Argentina and Brazil national squad play in their local leagues?

Brazil and Italy were Olympic and European champions, respectively too, what did they end up with at this World cup finals

Ibime:


I don't like discussing nonsense with ignorant people

You have already shown enough ignorance for one day

Czech Republic reached the final in 1962

Soviet Union knocked out England in Group stage in 1958, beating them 2-0, why didn't you mention that. They were Olympic Champions and Euro Champions. So you have Brazil, England, Soviet Union and Austria in the group.

All you need to know is these were the top 16 teams that came through qualifying. If anybody is better than them, they would have qualified ahead of them. They are nothing like Iran, Bosnia and Nigeria.

We will not go into history lesson to satisfy your ignorance.

Itsrm:


This is funny. Every goalkeeper has access to this information so why are some better at saving penalties than others?

All students in a class have access to the same Lecturer, materials, etc... but they won't graduate with the same grades.

someone please check or Trever012

Expert17:


Suddenly we should believe a disgraced ex-FIFA President

The same Blatter who "helped" Messi win 4 balon d'ors consecutively

hensben:
Lol you nor be footballer

In the days of Maradona vs Pele GOAT argument
I used to support and argue for Maradona being greater than Pele

And my arguments stem from Pele being part of a Galactico all star team vs Maradona who was part of a mediocre team

Now Messi has now surpassed Maradona.

So how can I twist to say Pele who I argued was less than Maradona is now greater than Messi?

Joezinho:


I guess you are referring to your father. If you have no clue just shut the fvck up and read as discussion unfolds. No need for uncontrollable emotional diatribes suitable for mental wards.

It’s okay not to know anything but it’s not okay to make a public fool of your kind over stuffs that’s not directed to you.

Oya sorry don't cry. Chill with this one.

Skimpledawg:

Your own agenda dey like Ofe nsala and better pounded yam because what's this last line

These Penduists must collect!

Just dey play

oliverano:


Na small small lol

Hustle ooo make penduist no drown you with tears oo

I go float ... E too salty

Messi’s sleeping with world cup Instagram post is at 49M likes. He’s going to defeat the egg twice.

The only record penaldo hold which Messi will never break is;

1 goal in Europa.

Ballzproblem2:
nothing concrete either,no serious club will sell their player mid season , unless you are ready to over pay again, Midfield will be heavily looked at during summer, but what Chelsea will focus on, is getting players to sign pre agreements,all this na tuchel fault,told boehly we didn't need Midfielders,now here we are, running Helter skelter ,why the defenders he emphasized, are picking up injuries,worst £250m even spent

Thunder will fire tuchel every gw


do you know this guy?

Phraser:

My argument for why Messi is the better/greater player (than Pele) is because he has more longevity, is the more complete player, has better technique, and because he played and thrived in a more modern and difficult era (against players with better technique and athleticism than those Pele faced). Bonus: he has more flair and his play style is more pretty to look at.

You talk too much without saying anything. You said you have been following my arguments and nothing I have shown shows Pele greater than Messi when everything I have shown shows Pele bodying Messi from stats to achievements to trophies on a like for like comparative basis

Your problem as above is that you want to conflate greatness with who was better

Who compares who is better over different eras with different sets of conditions?

Greatness is about how dominant you are over your peers and your achievements and stats and Pele is miles above Messi in that respect. I'm not interested in who is better which is a frankly foolish argument

Mohammed Ali is greater than Tyson Fury but Tyson Fury will beat him today

Moussa Dembele of Spurs is better by far than Jorginho of Chelsea but Jorginho is greater by virtue of achievements and trophies

So don't waste our time with too much words on nonsensical arguments

Players are to be compared in relation to their era, we are not interested in time travel to see who is better.

Bluelines69:


I can’t even figure which player played better than Messi at that 2014 World Cup, Germany were brilliant collectively, links and YouTube videos go soon finish while we enjoy the greatest of all time Live on TV

If Oliver Khan a goalkeeper could win golden ball over Ronaldo in 2002 for making few saves Vs Ronaldo who tore the tournament down with 8 goals scoring the only two goals in the final, the only goal in the semi, and in the second round also. . . .

Why would Neuer who revolutionised goalkeeping in the 2014 world cup lose to someone without a single goal contribution in the knockout stage

Neuer also won the tournament with decisive contribution in the final Vs Oliver Khan who lost the final

You can see the playing field is not equal

We haven't come to Rodriguez, Robben or even Neymar or the German midfielders or Philip Lahm who deserved it more.

Bluelines69:


It’s a Fraud, only Pele’s awards are authentic ,
Students of Pele research institute

Ibime:


You talk too much without saying anything. You said you have been following my arguments and nothing I have shown shows Pele greater than Messi when everything I have shown shows Pele bodying Messi from stats to achievements to trophies on a like for like comparative basis

Your problem as above is that you want to conflate greatness with who was better

Who compares who is better over different eras with different sets of conditions?

Greatness is about how dominant you are over your peers and your achievements and stats and Pele is miles above Messi in that respect. I'm not interested in who is better which is a frankly foolish argument

Mohammed Ali is greater than Tyson Fury but Tyson Fury will beat him today

Moussa Dembele of Spurs is better by far than Jorginho of Chelsea but Jorginho is greater by virtue of achievements and trophies

So don't waste our time with too much words on nonsensical arguments

Players are to be compared in relation to their era, we are not interested in time travel to see who is better.

Since your argument is about who is greater and not who is better, how then can something as subjective as greatness be measured? You say by team trophies and stats, which I don't think is a good benchmark for measuring greatness. But to indulge you: How many stats does Pele have more than Messi? (reasonable ones, I mean; not that non-penalty goals strawman). Besides the World Cup, does Pele have more trophies than Messi? Did you add freekick goals, individual awards, Olympic gold medal and Copa America? Under-20 World Cup?

Greatness is simply popularity/influence. And yes, Messi (and CR7) is the far more popular and influential footballer. He currently has the most liked photo in social media history and nearly half a billion followers on Instagram. Of course, playing in the social media era helped, as I said earlier. Now I hear Argentina wants to put Messi's face on one of their banknotes.

How many people in the street do you see wearing Pele's jersey today? Pele is the GOAT my foot.

Ibime:


If Oliver Khan a goalkeeper could win golden ball over Ronaldo in 2002 for making few saves Vs Ronaldo who tore the tournament down with 8 goals scoring the only two goals in the final, the only goal in the semi, and in the second round also. . . .

Why would Neuer who revolutionised goalkeeping in the 2014 world cup lose to someone without a single goal contribution in the knockout stage

Neuer also won the tournament with decisive contribution in the final Vs Oliver Khan who lost the final

You can see the playing field is not equal

We haven't come to Rodriguez, Robben or even Neymar or the German midfielders or Philip Lahm who deserved it more.

Go and check who assisted Argentina's only goal by Di Maria against Switzerland in the RO 16.

donstan18:
As Aston Villa keeper no dey play UCL to carry the Argentine Shatta Bundle, his fans won’t be able to provide anything against Ronaldo in the tournament.

we will see how the Argentina keeper will carry Aston villa to the league this season..

How the argument went from messi must win the world cup first to be the greatest of all time To Pele has three world cups so he is greater than Messi

This is how GOD confuses haters

Phraser:


"Deliberately foolish." No need for puerile ad hominems. Relax.

Messi is not the GOAT because he won the World Cup (he still would be the GOAT even if he hadn't won it on Sunday). My argument for why Messi is the better/greater player (than Pele) is because he has more longevity, is the more complete player, has better technique, and because he played and thrived in a more modern and difficult era (against players with better technique and athleticism than those Pele faced). Bonus: he has more flair and his play style is more pretty to look at.

There is now far more money in the game, unlike in Pele's era, meaning there's not much separating traditional football powerhouses from the small fish. It's why countries like Croatia, Morocco, Iceland and Saudi Arabia can now be expected to do well even against teams like Germany and Brazil. There have also been innovations in diet, sports science and technology—meaning players are stronger and faster—and tactical systems have evolved and become far more complex than they were in the 50s and 60s. There's a reason the names of many defenders from that era aren't a staple in the modern imagination. I would like to think that speaks to the middling quality of defenders and defending generally in that era—so unimpressive that not many of their names survived into the modern era.

Pele was a great footballer, but Messi did it in a more difficult and sophisticated era.

You are being deliberately foolish claiming a player with 3 World Cups, 12 non penalty goals, 10 assists in 14 games has no argument against a player with 8 non penalty goals and 8 assists in 25 games

First, put to bed this non-penalty goals strawman. Penalties are a part of the game, are they not? Did you play football in your youth or for a community club? If you did, you will know scoring a penalty demands great skill and mental toughness from a player, perhaps even more than an open play goal in some cases. Which do you think came with more pressure/stress and was more likely to have turned the momentum against Argentina in Sunday's game had either of the players not scored it: Di Maria's shot that produced Argentina's second goal or Messi's shot from the penalty spot? Anyone with the smallest football knowledge knows that the penalty kick was wracked with more tension.

So Messi should have turned down the chance to play the penalties Argentina got? Such primary school logic. I guess Harry Kane deliberately missed his against France, since penalties are so easy and not worthy of being counted as goals.

As I hinted earlier, using team trophies is not a sound way to gauge a player's football ability, for the simple reason that there are many averagely talented footballers with a World Cup and many Champions League titles to their name. It simply is the case of being in the right team at the right time, or in Pele's case, being born in the right country at the right time—would he have won 1, not to talk of 3 World Cups, if he had been born in Yugoslavia and did not play in a Brazil superteam? You are basically premising Pele's football greatness and ability on geographical happenstance. How clever is that.

Football is a team sport—it's lazy reasoning to conclude that more trophies equals better ability. In which case, Dani Alves must be a greater and better footballer than Pele since he's won more trophies than him.

While you are at it, please throw away that Pele has 7 Ballon d'Ors argument. He did not win it during his career and no one cares about whatever hindsight analysis France Football has done. History is never a linear path—no one can say for sure that he would have won that many Ballon d'Ors during his career had it also been awarded to non-Europeans. As talented as Mbappe is, he still hasn't won one at 24.

I can see you know your football very well and i will like to ask you a question that is totally unrelated to messi and Pele debate.


Pls who is better between Zidane and iniesta?

Ibime,

Also, speaking of influence/legacy, how many of Pele's goals are instantly recognizable in popular culture? People know Messi's run against Getafe and Athletic Bilbao, his header against United and the out-of-the-box goal he scored against them in '11, his freekick goal against Liverpool, his solo run against Real Madrid on receiving a pass in the midfield from Busquets. And now I think the long-range shot he scored against Mexico in this World Cup and the assist he provided in the Netherlands game will enjoy that pop culture status.

So popular are these goals that they have become memes. Which of Pele's goals is in the popular imagination like any of the ones cited above? At least Maradona has the Hand of God goal and the famous run against England.

TLona1:


Do the players in Argentina and Brazil national squad play in their local leagues?

They play in Europe.


So how is what Mbappe said there disrespectful?

popizaino:


I can see you know your football very well and i will like to ask you a question that is totally unrelated to messi and Pele debate.


Pls who is better between Zidane and iniesta?

I prefer the way Iniesta played and he was better in some aspects of the game, but Zidane impacted more games than Iniesta did. So, Zidane.

I am particularly surprised as to how Americans are celebrating Lionel Messi.

All their major news channels have all being about Messi, Messi and Messi from CNN to Fox and many more.

I've never seen them talk about any sports Star except in the sporting segments but they have included Lionel Messi In their News schedule for every minute for 24 hours.

It's like all soccer fans in America are fans of Lionel Messi.

raumdeuter:


In the days of Maradona vs Pele GOAT argument
I used to support and argue for Maradona being greater than Pele

And my arguments stem from Pele being part of a Galactico all star team vs Maradona who was part of a mediocre team

Now Messi has now surpassed Maradona.

So how can I twist to say Pele who I argued was less than Maradona is now greater than Messi?

Good clarification from you baba, I got your message.

raumdeuter:


In the days of Maradona vs Pele GOAT argument
I used to support and argue for Maradona being greater than Pele

And my arguments stem from Pele being part of a Galactico all star team vs Maradona who was part of a mediocre team

Now Messi has now surpassed Maradona.

So how can I twist to say Pele who I argued was less than Maradona is now greater than Messi?

Dayokanu at his very best...

Can't wait for Mount, Havertz and Jorginho to sanitize this thread

Everything nor be nostalgia. I have great respect for the legendary Pele he is an icon, but Messi is the greatest football player of all time.

Brazilian wonder kid
Andrey Santos�� is on his way to Chelsea.The Club intended to formalize the proposal for the midfielder after the World Cup and it arrived this week.Manchester City and Newcastle also made offers, but the boy chose Chelsea. (
@pedrosa

Chelsea have closed the signing of Vasco da gama's 18-year old Brazilian midfielder Andrey Santos. He is expected to undergo medical tests and sign the contract

The project offered by the London club weighed above all else.✍️��� #CFC

(via
@UOLEsporte
)