nateevs:


Kindly do not misintepret the context of my post as the point of the squad strength was not made as an excuse.


Talking about squad strength, City have the best squad. Arsenal have a very first 13 or there about. Chelsea have very good, very young inexperienced players in key positions. A situation Jose is not accustomed to managing. Usually, his teams are filled with top professionals in every spot.

In other words, coaches such as Pardew, Martinez, Pochettino are as good if not better than Mourinho since they do not have top professionals in their squads let alone in every spot. You are a good coach if you can work wonders with a small budget. Having the best team where all the great professionals know what they are doing doesn't make you a great coach.

Chelsea has top professionals in every spot. It is the way Chelsea is set up that doesn't work for their strikers. Demba Ba was good at Newcastle poor at Chelsea. Torres was good at Liverpool and became poor at Chelsea. Sturridge was poor at Chelsea became good at Liverpool. Lukaka had no chance at Chelsea but his playing well at Everton.

And Chelsea should not be losing to Stoke, Everton and Newcastle based on the squad strength.

nateevs: Kindly do not misintepret the context of my post as the point of the squad strength was not made as an excuse.

Talking about squad strength, City have the best squad. Arsenal have a very first 13 or there about. Chelsea have very good, very young inexperienced players in key positions. A situation Jose is not accustomed to managing. Usually, his teams are filled with top professionals in every spot.

I cant say Arsenal first 13 is better than Chelseas.

Hazard, mata Oscar are as good as what others have in AM. The Chelsea benhc is better than what any team have currently as evident in the Carling Cup.

Katsumoto:

In other words, coaches such as Pardew, Martinez, Pochettino are as good if not better than Mourinho since they do not have top professionals in their squads let alone in every spot. You are a good coach if you can work wonders with a small budget. Having the best team where all the great professionals know what they are doing doesn't make you a great coach.

Chelsea has top professionals in every spot. It is the way Chelsea is set up that doesn't work for their strikers. Demba Ba was good at Newcastle poor at Chelsea. Torres was good at Liverpool and became poor at Chelsea. Sturridge was poor at Chelsea became good at Liverpool. Lukaka had no chance at Chelsea but his playing well at Everton.

And Chelsea should not be losing to Stoke, Everton and Newcastle based on the squad strength.

I am either doing a very bad job at getting you to understand me or you are out-rightly refusing to get me. Every single thing you have here is my exact point of view. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

dayokanu:

I cant say Arsenal first 13 is better than Chelseas.

Hazard, mata Oscar are as good as what others have in AM. The Chelsea benhc is better than what any team have currently as evident in the Carling Cup.

I am not saying that either. My initial point is that Jose's excellence in the past has been masked/enhanced by the strength of he squad he had. That this is the first time he is working with a squad that is not clearly the best in the league and that he needs to show he is that good by taking a not so good squad and making them champions.

nateevs:

I am either doing a very bad job at getting you to understand me or you are out-rightly refusing to get me. Every single thing you have here is my exact point of view. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

I think I am getting your message; I just happen to disagree with some of your points

1. Chelsea have very good, very young inexperienced players in key positions - This is not true; Chelsea is blessed with top players for every position. The backline has played together for years. The midfield has Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Lampard, Ramires, Obi, Willian, Schurrle. The attack has Torres, Ba, Etoo. Which of them is young and inexperienced?

2. You say he doesn't have the best squad in the league. I disagreed with that. Chelsea squad is as good as Man city. Aguero is clearly better than all Chelsea strikers but Chelsea has a better midfield and defence. Cech is better than Hart. Mourinho has also won more titles than Pellegrini; so Chelsea should be the best team in the league. And Chelsea soesn't play Citeh every week.

dayokanu:
Some of us already told anyone who cared to listen that Torres form follows a dead clock or better still follows the eclipse of the moon.

If you are going to bank on a striker who scores 2 league goals in a calendar year then you are on a long thing. One of the goals was a gift from Joe Hart sef

torres is the best striker at chelsea. i can't wait for lukaku to return. you would see his general output would reduce again like most strikers have struggled at the bridge. every chelsea midfielder is a goalscorer so the goals get shared like groundnuts.

The strikeforce is crap, the central midfield is worse still. The same things I've been saying on here for two years. Jose problem is thinking he is better than the players he has at his disposal. He shoulda revamped the midfield and strikeforce in the summer instead of following Emenalos failed formula.

coogar:

torres is the best striker at chelsea. i can't wait for lukaku to return. you would see his general output would reduce again like most strikers have struggled at the bridge. every chelsea midfielder is a goalscorer so the goals get shared like groundnuts.

I am not even joining in the 'Lukaku should not have gone' debate. Lukaku does not possess the technique to play in tight spaces and as teams set up against Chelsea very deep and tight, he could struggle and find quickly that space he finds adjusting his position while at Everton and West Brom is simply non-existent.

The demands of playing for Chelsea is a different pot of soup.

nateevs:


Talking about squad strength, City have the best squad. Arsenal have a very first 13 or there about. Chelsea have very good, very young inexperienced players in key positions. A situation Jose is not accustomed to managing. Usually, his teams are filled with top professionals in every spot.

Whoa whoa whoa hold on one second! Who are the young and inexperienced players at Chelsea? Biko name 2!

Who are the very young inexperienced players in key positions?

On paper Chelsea has the best squad in the EPL. Try another excuse for Mourinho abeg

Katsumoto:

I think I am getting your message; I just happen to disagree with some of your points

1. Chelsea have very good, very young inexperienced players in key positions - This is not true; Chelsea is blessed with top players for every position. The backline has played together for years. The midfield has Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Lampard, Ramires, Obi, Willian, Schurrle. The attack has Torres, Ba, Etoo. Which of them is young and inexperienced?

2. You say he doesn't have the best squad in the league. I disagreed with that. Chelsea squad is as good as Man city. Aguero is clearly better than all Chelsea strikers but Chelsea has a better midfield and defence. Cech is better than Hart. Mourinho has also won more titles than Pellegrini; so Chelsea should be the best team in the league. And Chelsea soesn't play Citeh every week.

Lol dammit man! How can anyone even opine that Chelsea does not have the best squad in the league? At the start of the season the general assumption was that Chelsea would run away with the title! They were everyone's favorite! I can't believe Nateevs is even giving that excuse

nateevs:


I am not even joining in the 'Lukaku should not have gone' debate. Lukaku does not possess the technique to play in tight spaces and as teams set up against Chelsea very deep and tight, he could struggle and find quickly that space he finds adjusting his position while at Everton and West Brom is simply non-existent.

The demands of playing for Chelsea is a different pot of soup.

I call B.S.

Lukaku is a big brute. You dont play the ball to his feet.

You pass the ball into space or plant it on his forehead and watch him do the bizniss

Case study 1



Case study 2


Case study 3

[img]http://www.abload.de/img/untitled-219gbev.gif[/img]


Your talk about Lukaku not having close control or whatever is pure BS. Play to his strengths, and he has shown time and time again that he will deliver.

You dont force Lukaku to play your team's way, You force your team to play Lukaku's way. Ask Steve Clark or Martinez

@ GustavoFrings

So to showcase the strengths of Lukaku, you had to use the fluke match West Brom beat Liverpool?

Katsumoto: @ GustavoFrings

So to showcase the strengths of Lukaku, you had to use the fluke match West Brom beat Liverpool?

Liverpool are Lukaku's bytches

Look at ex- captain Carragher getting a facial in the second gif.

Bukakkke Lukaku style

Katsumoto: @ GustavoFrings

So to showcase the strengths of Lukaku, you had to use the fluke match West Brom beat Liverpool?

As someone suggested if our strikers are falling why not parade any array of midfielder with a false 9 probably schurrle. #justasking

torres2:
As someone suggested if our strikers are falling why not parade any array of midfielder with a false 9 probably schurrle. #justasking

He has actually played schurlle up front this season against manure.

As the scoreline showed, it wasn't nothing impressive

GustavoFring:

I call B.S.

Lukaku is a big brute. You dont play the ball to his feet.

You pass the ball into space or plant it on his forehead and watch him do the bizniss

Case study 1



Case study 2


Case study 3

[img]http://www.abload.de/img/untitled-219gbev.gif[/img]


Your talk about Lukaku not having close control or whatever is pure BS. Play to his strengths, and he has shown time and time again that he will deliver.

You dont force Lukaku to play your team's way, You force your team to play Lukaku's way. Ask Steve Clark or Martinez

I don't understand. What is BS about what I said? Lukaku does not have the technique to play in tight spaces. Fact!
Team don't set up against Chelsea as they do West Brom and Everton. Fact!


If you want to saying put the ball in the air as an alternative pattern of play for the sake of Lukaku, then fair enough. That is an entirely different suggested which does not mean that he suddenly has the technique to wiggle out of tight spaces.

Do you not think Jose already thought about this? Putting the ball in the air? Playing to his strengths?

A-40:

Lol dammit man! How can anyone even opine that Chelsea does not have the best squad in the league? At the start of the season the general assumption was that Chelsea would run away with the title! They were everyone's favorite! I can't believe Nateevs is even giving that excuse

Lawdamercy. What about my point of view was so difficult to understand? It wasn't even an excuse for JM, it was, if anything, an attack.
I thought I explained that.

The point everyone is making is Chelsea has the best squad in the league their second team would make top 2

This poor performance has nothing to do with squad quality is simply managerial incompetence

dayokanu: The point everyone is making is Chelsea has the best squad in the league their second team would make top 2

This poor performance has nothing to do with squad quality is simply managerial incompetence

Incompetence is too strong a word for a manager who has won titles in 4 different countries and has two champions league titles. There is a problem but I wouldn't go as far as saying its incompetence.

nateevs:


I don't understand. What is BS about what I said? Lukaku does not have the technique to play in tight spaces. Fact!
Team don't set up against Chelsea as they do West Brom and Everton. Fact!


If you want to saying put the ball in the air as an alternative pattern of play for the sake of Lukaku, then fair enough. That is an entirely different suggested which does not mean that he suddenly has the technique to wiggle out of tight spaces.

Do you not think Jose already thought about this? Putting the ball in the air? Playing to his strengths?

You implied that an imaginary lack of technique is the reason why Lukaku cannot play for Chelsea.

Hence I called you out.

Your submission was wrong on so many levels

Firstly, I think it's ridiculous to suggest that Lukaku must be able to 'drimble' 5 players and nutmeg the referee before he can fit in the Chelsea squad. Is Eto'o doing that? Is Torres doing Joga Bonito on the Pitch? In any case, I put them Gifs out there to Show you how to use a Lukaku.


Secondly, Lukaku IS currently ballinng at Everton - He is playing for a team that has already beaten Manure and our humble selves, and drawn with Loserpool and Assnal this season. He even copped an assist against Manure. If he can do it against the Big boys, I fail to see your point about Bunkering teams

Any manager worth his salt, should know that he should build his team around Lukaku.

Katsumoto: Incompetence is too strong a word for a manager who has won titles in 4 different countries and has two champions league titles. There is a problem but I wouldn't go as far as saying its incompetence.

I might agree based on his record, incompetence might be strong but which words would describe whats going on with the situation right now considering the wealth of talents

dayokanu:

I might agree based on his record, incompetence might be strong but which words would describe whats going on with the situation right now considering the wealth of talents

mourinho is not incompetent - this is not his team. at least give him time to tweak here & there before you start blaming him. look at the defensive side of chelsea(mourinho's strongest emphasis) - what you have now is a parody to the chelsea team of 04/05.


terry has aged, cahill & luiz wouldn't make chelsea's team of that era. essien has gotten older, cech hasn't been the same since his head injury. mourinho's team has always been built with a very strong defence & the current chelsea side isn't even 10% of what the 04/05 defensively. these ones are babies.

GustavoFring:

He has actually played schurlle up front this season against manure.

As the scoreline showed, it wasn't nothing impressive

A match where Mourinho came to park the bus is hardly an accurate metric. He shoulda been given more opportunities especially against lower and mid-table teams

nateevs:


Lawdamercy. What about my point of view was so difficult to understand? It wasn't even an excuse for JM, it was, if anything, an attack.
I thought I explained that.

It ceased to be an attack when you alluded that Mourinho had to win and work with a squad that was not the best in the league. Me I'm telling you now that Chelsea unequivocally have the best squad in the league. You guys are loaded!

When you throw words like young and inexperienced I'm still at a loss as to who these inexperienced players are. Y'all are younger maybe but not as young as you think! Looking at your main squad Schurrle,Oscar and Hazard are the only key players younger than 24

The "inexperienced" line is just bizarre and I don't even know how to respond to that

Firstly, I think it's ridiculous to suggest that Lukaku must be able to 'drimble' 5 players and nutmeg the referee before he can fit in the Chelsea squad. Is Eto'o doing that? Is Torres doing Joga Bonito on the Pitch? In any case, I put them Gifs out there to Show you how to use a Lukaku.

How to use Lukaku is not alien to anyone. That's not a revelation. At least not to a manager who employed Drogba in the same way. The issue is, do you see us pumping the ball forwards to Eto'o and Torres? Perhaps that informs the reason I come to that submission.

Listen to Jose's first interview and understand the new mandate he has, "putting the ball on the ground". . .

My point is you cannot remind Jose how to use Lukaku. He (JM) already knew before he signed.

Secondly, Lukaku IS currently ballinng at Everton - He is playing for a team that has already beaten Manure and our humble selves, and drawn with Loserpool and Assnal this season. He even copped an assist against Manure. If he can do it against the Big boys, I fail to see your point about Bunkering teams

Any manager worth his salt, should know that he should build his team around Lukaku.

That's not the point. Crystal palace don't line up against Everton/West Brom thinking they cannot walk away with 3 points. Neither do the likes of Stoke, Sunderland and Fulham. The tactics are perhaps a 4-4-2 against Everton/West Brom and an attacking disposition with high defensive line pushing up close to midfield. This undoubtedly gives Lukaku more space to attack.

However, to think that the same Stoke, Fulham and Sunderland will line up against Chelsea with the same tactics is extreme naivety. It is impossible and it is a valid logic to consider that Lukaku will not have as much space he finds in a an Everton/West Brom.

coogar:

mourinho is not incompetent - this is not his team. at least give him time to tweak here & there before you start blaming him. look at the defensive side of chelsea(mourinho's strongest emphasis) - what you have now is a parody to the chelsea team of 04/05.


terry has aged, cahill & luiz wouldn't make chelsea's team of that era. essien has gotten older, cech hasn't been the same since his head injury. mourinho's team has always been built with a very strong defence & the current chelsea side isn't even 10% of what the 04/05 defensively. these ones are babies.

I would have agreed with all of this if he did not send Lukaku away and sign Eto'o

Lukaku is the very embodiment of what Jose's teams are supposed to be. Relentless and unapologetic physicality.

Yet under our watch, he signed Willian and Eto'o. Players we didnt need.

He also signed Essien - Who has looked so far out out of his depth when he has played, it has been shocking.

If he had not made such monumental errors in his transfer policy, I would have been content to write off our current dismal performances as part of the bedding in process.

I think something happened to JM in Spain. I think his failure to break Barca's hegemony in Spain couple with Pep's constant mindfucking has affected Jose and snatched his spark from him.

He has already admitted to making "11 mistakes" this term. He has admitted to being unable to improve his Strikers.

I think we are facing a 2-fold problem at SW6. The manager needs to gas up his players. But who will gas up Mourinho?

A-40:

It ceased to be an attack when you alluded that Mourinho had to win and work with a squad that was not the best in the league. Me I'm telling you now that Chelsea unequivocally have the best squad in the league. You guys are loaded!

When you throw words like young and inexperienced I'm still at a loss as to who these inexperienced players are. Y'all are younger maybe but not as young as you think! Looking at your main squad Schurrle,Oscar and Hazard are the only key players younger than 24

The "inexperienced" line is just bizarre and I don't even know how to respond to that

Okay. I may have employed inappropriate words in the use of "inexperienced". The premise of the post was not to absolve JM of any blame as reflected in the first part of the post.

nateevs: He is only as usual trying to deflect from the main issue which is that it is down to him that we are not top of the league. Unless he saying that this top striker will need to score 4 goals every game to prevent us losing 3-2, he is not facing the challenges. If we did not lose to Sunderland and Stoke, we will be top of the league. End of story.

This talk about Lukaku is bollocks. If Lukaku cannot fit with the way Chelski wants to play, why wasn't he sold? Tight spaces my foot. I dunno what skill Ba has in tight spaces that he was kept at Chelski.

As for the comments about how team set up against a player, it's not far from bollocks either. If it's simply a matter of space, then anyone seeing Lukaku on the opposing side should've closed down on that by now, yet he keeps scoring. Compare to Benteke who is struggling because he's been figured out to a large extent. The fact is, Lukaku has more than enough in his locker to play 'technical football' or 'on the ground' football or anything else you want to call it.

coogar: mourinho is not incompetent - this is not his team. at least give him time to tweak here & there before you start blaming him. look at the defensive side of chelsea(mourinho's strongest emphasis) - what you have now is a parody to the chelsea team of 04/05.


terry has aged, cahill & luiz wouldn't make chelsea's team of that era. essien has gotten older, cech hasn't been the same since his head injury. mourinho's team has always been built with a very strong defence & the current chelsea side isn't even 10% of what the 04/05 defensively. these ones are babies.

How much players does he need to buy to make this his team? How many coaches get to buy 11 players before they take responsibilities

Already he has bought Willian, Etoo, Schurlle Van Ginkel

Cech is still one of the top 5 goalkeepers in Europe, Ivanovic is still a top defender. So if he doesnt have what he had in 2004/05 he cant perform in England? On paper he has the best squad in the country How many coaches have the luxury of Mata, Willian, Ba, Mikel, Azpilicueta, Luiz Debryuyne as benchwarmer in the whole of England

Once Mourinho doesnt have anyone to wage verbal wars on he loses the plot

nateevs:

How to use Lukaku is not alien to anyone. That's not a revelation. At least not to a manager who employed Drogba in the same way. The issue is, do you see us pumping the ball forwards to Eto'o and Torres? Perhaps that informs the reason I come to that submission.

Listen to Jose's first interview and understand the new mandate he has, "putting the ball on the ground". . .

My point is you cannot remind Jose how to use Lukaku. He (JM) already knew before he signed.

If a manager does not have a plan B, then whose fault is it when he cannot get results against common Basel?

That's not the point. Crystal palace don't line up against Everton/West Brom thinking they cannot walk away with 3 points. Neither do the likes of Stoke, Sunderland and Fulham. The tactics are perhaps a 4-4-2 against Everton/West Brom and an attacking disposition with high defensive line pushing up close to midfield. This undoubtedly gives Lukaku more space to attack.

However, to think that the same Stoke, Fulham and Sunderland will line up against Chelsea with the same tactics is extreme naivety. It is impossible and it is a valid logic to consider that Lukaku will not have as much space he finds in a an Everton/West Brom.

Your submission sounds so absurd considering that we have conceded 6 goals in two matches against Stoke and Sunderland.

Games that ended 4-3 and 3-2 suggest that they were open ended games on both sides

We have lost to Everton ,Basel and Newcastle and drawn 2-2 with Westbrom.

So I dont know what teams are setting up defensively to deal with Chelsea.

Oddly enough, Everton have had more of the ball when they play. Their high possion stats suggest that the opposition are bunkering. Yet Lukaku is still scoring for fun

Case study Everton (4) v Stoke (0)

Everton had 54% possesion of the ball. Stoke were clearly bunkering as they do best. Lukaku scored.

So what's your point?

GustavoFring:
I would have agreed with all of this if he did not send Lukaku away and sign Eto'o
Lukaku is the very embodiment of what Jose's teams are supposed to be. Relentless and unapologetic physicality.

what's to say lukaku would even fit? we all saw ba firing for newcastle. the moment he joined chelsea, he lost his bearing. the truth is, chelsea have too many goalscoring midfielders who would shoot on target when they get near the opponent's goal - lukaku's team mates at everton would look for lukaku in such situations.

Yet under our watch, he signed Willian and Eto'o. Players we didnt need. He also signed Essien - Who has looked so far out out of his depth when he has played, it has been shocking.

essien never left. he was on loan. the loan deal expired & essien had to come back to his parent club.

If he had not made such monumental errors in his transfer policy, I would have been content to write off our current dismal performances as part of the bedding in process.

you are 3rd on the table & you are complaining. what should the defending champions rooted in the 9th place do?

I think something happened to JM in Spain. I think his failure to break Barca's hegemony in Spain couple with Pep's constant mindfucking has affected Jose and snatched his spark from him.

jose is still jose. wait, let him get the balance right by next season & you will see the difference. lukaku would be back then with more experience, stronger, fitter & more effective. letting lukaku go on loan might be a daft idea now but chelsea would benefit in the end.

He has already admitted to making "11 mistakes" this term. He has admitted to being unable to improve his Strikers.

a tacit message to the owner to release the funds for a world class striker.

I think we are facing a 2-fold problem at SW6. The manager needs to gas up his players. But who will gas up Mourinho?

mourinho is gassed already - he lost at stoke so what? how many top teams have picked maximum points at stoke in recent times? this is the same mourinho that eliminated the league leaders in the capital one cup away fro home, he's qualified his team for the knock out stage of UCL......he's few points away from the league leaders.

what's the problem?

nateevs:


Okay. I may have employed inappropriate words in the use of "inexperienced". The premise of the post was not to absolve JM of any blame as reflected in the first part of the post.

The alarm bells are ringing too early IMO. You guys are still in the race for all 4 competitions obviously this isn't quite what was expected but I did feel Mourinho would not have it all smooth sailing as he has lost a step in some areas and was demystified in Spain it could still end very well if Mourinho doesn't throw his toys outta the pram