dawhizkid1:
If Oscar ever had a 30 passes per 90mins game, it'll be one of those Chelsea Park the bus/Counter strategy game, and you can't really blame the player for that.

Chelsea started playing real expansive football this season. I dare Ibime to show me a game where Oscar had only 30 passes this season.

I'm not a football scholar but I'm pretty certain that in a 4-2-3-1 (the formation Chelsea employs most times), the number 6 and 8 are responsible for controlling the game, recycling/dominating possession. Oscar is a number 10. He is not Modric or Schweinsteiger or Kroos, those are 6/8 players and even at that Oscar has shown that he can dominate possession as well on his day as he did against Villa, Sporting and Palace. He had 90+ successful passes and 100+ touches against Palace, he just needs a little more consistency.

I'm not a big fan of comparing Oscar to Lampard, cos frankly, Frank is a different type of beast, but Oscar is not half as bad a Ibime tries to paint.

Plus, for all you guys that run to squawka to dig up stats to support your Mr A is better than Mr B arguments. I've got 8 words for Y'all;

IF STATS ARE USEFUL, SCOUTS WOULD BE OBSOLETE.

Selah!

Ibime:
Manure fans want kill Mata o!

Chelsea faithful should come and congratulate JM for getting rid of that wasteman despite severe opposition from the baying hordes of uninformed Chelsea fans and wankers in the press like Jamie Redknapp and Ruud Gullit.

Y'all wouldn't know the bàlls it took to get rid of şuch a favourite and twice player of the year. Compare to Manure managers who keep kowtowing to Rooney cos they lack the bàlls to make the tough decisions.

AirborneLacer:


Bruh you're making a hell of mistakes, the likes which have not been seen since the Mexican Indians sold manhattan to George Washington for an Indecent photo of Betsy Ross.

If you aint in the business of quoting old posts, I'd then advice you to get off the business of bringing up old claims you aint sure of.

Guapo comparing Lamps to Mikel and Ramires?

SMH! Iranu should be considered a synonym for Ibime.

Ibime:


Nigga, I'm sure of what I'm saying. You can go and recap from this page down if you want. Aint in the bizness of quoting old shyt.

https://www.nairaland.com/920248/official-chelsea-fan-thread-pride/118#12413859

I'm as sure of what I'm saying as you were sure that Lampard should be dropped for Rami and as sure as you were that Oscar is the man for the AM position over Lampard.

And as sure as you were that Oscar is better than Kroos, Gotze and Muller.

Now story done change to "long term replacement".


Don't get me wrong, ain't got problem with the boy Oscar, Chelsea have more pertinent issues than replacing him, but he ain't nowehere near World Class level at no10 position. One clown even put tackling stats for Oscar in the World Cup as a positive. . . . . I would go into why tackling stats is a foolish data set that no one uses (eg Makelele never made tackles). . . . but let's just summarise by saying those 11 tackles he made in the World Cup were out of desperation as Kroos and Sneijder disgraced and humiliated him.

ElGuapo:


U Seem to be laffing now and not saying something IB -- The last time we had an argument it was On whether Ramires would fare well playing in the Pivot with Mikel, and if am to recall vividly u were of the Opinion that Ramy aint a Good CM not in a Lifetime, but lately, it seem all like RDM is goin' with my view that Ramy can't penetrate through the wings nicely anymore hence deploying him to the Pivot which has been working perfectly Fine.

The selection of Ramires at the Pivot, starting for the Second time in 8 days, suggests that di Matteo is looking for pace, energy and a lot of off-the-ball movement from his midfield, and i guess u've seen more of that in the Stoke and Arsenal games.

Our Wing Play is now more like a Mobile Stuff -- A Delight to watch. Eden Hazard, Oscar and Juan Mata lined up in the attacking band behind Fernando Torres: Hazard on the left, Oscar down the middle and Mata on the right. With the trio rotating across the attacking third like three cups under the spell of a magician determined to hide the location that elusive ball.

Whatcha ya Gon Say to that?

Ibime:


Sure, it works to cover a slow central midfield, but do you see Ramires as your DM going forward? I certainly dont. If I was RDM, I would be requesting a new DM on January 1st.

I am against Ramires in ma midfield fullstop, but anything to "protect Mikel" is fine by me for now, till we reach January.

nateevs:


Please man. Now you are calling the drafting of Ramires into DM a cover for the slow Mikel rather than the expunging of the lethargic Lampard. If Mikel is that crap, why not field Lampard alongside Ramires and drop Mikel. Everyone sees this except you. Go siddon. You slowly trying to make this stick.

Let's debunk your crap. Against Arsenal and Stoke, we never pressured them on a high line and as such never had cause to retrieve the ball dropped beyond our back four. Hence there was no need for pace running backwards. For that reason, you cannot suggest that the inclusion of Ramires was cover the slow Mikel. No! Stop the bollocks.

It worked because Ramires had positional discipline. He attacked only when he could and sat back for most of the game breaking up play. That way the defensive combination of 6 player in the double pivot and defence line stayed strong. That's why you play a 4-2-3-1 and this is exactly what I have been trying to point out. The same happened when Meireles played against Newcastle - the only other time the DM pivot worked. Average player, didn't have the pace of Ramires, susceptible to conceding possession far too many times, but it worked because he stayed discipline in the pivot. Abi Meireles was covering for the slow Mikel?


Stop mixing up issues. RDM realised that to go into those two games with a Lamps - Mikel partnership is suicide. Something I have always pointed. Even Diva pointed it out many times. You will never accept that Lampard was dropped. It's always someone else's fault. Imagine you trying to tell us that Ramires was drafted in because Mikel is slow, not that Ramires took Lamps place. As if Mikel had to much to drink on Friday, fell off the kerb and became slow overnight.

nateevs:
@Ibime.

You are the one making the mistake dude and it all comes from your imagination that one of the DMs needs to go forward. There is no tactical imperative for one of the DMs to go forward and as such there isn't any need for defensive cover. This is where you miss the point. Mikel "may" surge forward at times, but never reaching inside the 18 like Lampard would. The difference between Mikel not reaching the opposition 18 and Lamps reaching it is a gulf. This is why you are making a mistake.

There should be no such thing as a cover in a 4-2-3-1 if the two sitting guys sit. The games against Newcastle, Arsenal and Stoke have shown that. We stayed compact in defence and still did not suffer in attack.

Mikel is not occupying Lamps position. It's just a tactical switch as applied in continental style where you have one destroyer and a deep-lying play-maker in a double pivot. Ramires hasn't got the passing range. Mikel has it and it only makes sense that Mikel sat just slightly ahead of Ramires. With a passing range, you don't need to go forward. This is where you miss the point.

Defensively though, they stayed disciplined and did not open up. In games Lamps has played in, it's like open waters and you blame this on Mikel? Please dude.

The reason I did not suggest Romeu and Mikel is because of the speed of recycling possession, not the speed of defensive cover. If both players don't stray forward, there will be no need for pace.

ElGuapo:


PERFECT! Some people call it centre midfield, some call the position the holding role, some call it the deeper lying position and some the double-pivot. Call it what you want but there is now a serious case for Ramires to be playing there week in, week out.

Speaking to Chelsea fans I know since Saturday and the general opinion is that Frank Lampard really has a job on now to take the position back from Ramires and that's fair comment.

Frank Lampard is about finesse and polish in that position with the ball at his feet and he puts himself about defensively also. Ramires is getting there as far as finesse and polish goes but it's the energy he has that makes him stand out from others around him.

nateevs:



Good observation El Guapo. You won't get a response from Ibime though. According to him, it's one of RDM's best tactical decisions of last season. Undoing AVB's bullsh1t of playing Ramires in the middle and playing him on the wings where, if he loses the ball, it doesn't affect the team.

Are we now saying RDM's undoing his own best decision or Ibime didn't know know what he was saying and will be forced to change his mind. . . again?

Ibime: Your main two formations there show Mikel/Lamps and Mikel/Oscar.

One had Mikel/Oscar plus Marin, Mata and Hazard which is the so-called "fantasy football"..

You had Mikel/Lamps/Ramires "if we need to get down and dirty", meaning Barcelona not Stoke and Arsenal.

Your "most defensive formation" is our template formation, and you didnt even envisage Ramires as the deepest midfielder, so leave matter.

This is nowhere near "the same exact formation" you envisaged as Chelseas template formation.

You told us Mikels pace was not a problem, but it is, hence Ramires.

No matter how this thing is twisted, Ramires drafting in was as a result of lack of pace in the DM position, not due to "Lamps bombing forward" which I've debunked and which positional charts show us is wrong. You have lost an argument, but managed to twist yourself into a winning position.

I would make no comment because Mikel is not doing anything Lampard doesnt do better as the more advanced of the two, except shielding players with his nyash (which he does very well). Lamps missed training most of last week with a foot injury so lets watch developments.

lalaboi:
I dont remember Nateevs line up but i'm sure it didnt have no Oscar in it. or having Mikel and Ramires TOgether. . . Ramires and Oscar in the middle made us a little bit stronger cos these 2 hustle and make tackles to win back the ball. . .

Is it just me or Oscar need to hit the Gym for some Upper Body strength .. . . He'll get bullied when it comes to the physicality in the premier league.

nateevs:
Regarding the getting the formation right, hommie you are clutching at straws. I never said I got all the players right. The particular part of contention was the inclusion of Hazard Oscar Mata in midfield. Ritchie came asking who will defend and how it will never work against Arsenal. It was not important that I got the DMs right as the DMs are already defensive players. I didn't lose any argument. I would be congratulating anyone who saw before hand that midfield could work. Now you are running your mouth, using my reason behind each lineup as a defensive standpoint rather than commending the thought process of the combination. You called the entire thing I did fantasy football. You didn't commend any part of it. Now you are picking and choosing what you called fantasy. . . I know, you changed your mind.

Lalaboi questioned ever seeing my suggestion with an Oscar lineup, it was there. He also questioned whether I ever put Ramires together with Mikel, it was there. It's like you having a go at me for not seeing all the possibilities. I can't. The bottom line is,I nailed the attacking formation and RDM substituted my defensive part of the formation - something I have consistently advocated for since I saw the first Lamps/Mikel partnership and you think I lost an argument? Dude go and lie down.

coogar:
ibime won't give up.........lampard is a waste pipe....take out the penalties won by hazard this season and the dude has done nothing!

mikel has a better pass completion and average passes per game! it gets ridiculous when mikel has made more key passes per game than lampard! i know fat frank is a legend. he's been a great servant to chelsea but he's living off past glory now - he's in the category of giggs/scholes....."has beens"

BlueDiva:
Why is nobody talking about Romeu?
Mikel/Romeu pairing should be something.

Ramires is more effective playing on the right of midfield.
Still,i would prefer Ramires to Lamps at that holding role anyday.

If i remember rightly, that was the role he played for Brazil at the last world cup.

nateevs:


Trust me. Ibime is the only dude I know who goes to a blog on the internet, quotes the words of a fellow yob and pastes it here with the confidence he can muster as though those e-analysts have discovered something new. As long as it's remotely close to what he's arguing about, it's true.

The other day he posting a journalist's personal opinion about Llorente's "perceived tiredness" as fact.

ElGuapo:
On the Contrary, he's still One of my favorites On here

AirborneLacer:

Thanks for the link.
Ladies and gentlemen, I'd be taking the next few minutes to do a compilation of our views on this issue from 2012.
Read and judge

ElGuapo:


U Sabi twist Issues Eh!

Talking about Ramy playing in the Pivot and doin' fine is certainly a different Issue with Protecting Mikel and U voicing for the acquisition of a New DM is Certainly Outta this World cos we've got a Young Romeu on the Bench {He Can always Improve}, Did i forget Including Chalobah On the List?

ElGuapo:
Oscar is class, one of the best central midfield
players around today and so far he has spent his early Chelsea career warming a seat. He must play and must play now, I cannot emphasis that enough. He is the type of player who will sit in the middle of the park and pull the strings, make things happen. I know he is young in terms of age, but in terms of majority, he is more than ready and needs to play every match.

AirborneLacer:
Months ago, when Ibime and I were hot on this issue, I remember telling him that Oscar isn't a CM but he's more like an AM who's ready to work his socks off for the team, an AM who shouldn't be compared with CMs like Kroos, Modric et al - players who possesses great vision and who can dictate the way the game is played.

AirborneLacer:
Now how I take compare Lampard with Ramires and Mikel?

With Lampard in the pivot, we were leaking in goals like tomorrow no dey and it was right before RDM as the gaffer to do something - at least to save his job.

We were all of the opinion that Ramires get shunted into the pivot, considering the energy and pace which he possessed, and which would be needed in closing down opponents.

Not too long, RDM responded, it became a Ramires-Mikel pivot and things got a tad better.

AirborneLacer:
We were all of the opinion that Ramires get shunted into the pivot, considering the energy and pace which he possessed, and which would be needed in closing down opponents.

Not too long, RDM responded, it became a Ramires-Mikel pivot

Ibime:


Everyone knows the story. . . . you claimed we did not need a new DM and our team was balanced, we just need to remove Lampard and play Mikel and Ramires. . . . . then came back 2 years later to apologise and hail Matic as the saviour. . .


You claimed Oscar was World Class, put him ahead of Lampard, now backtracking on your statements.


You went from this:



to this:



It took you two years to realise that Oscar was not "someone who sit in the middle of park and pull strings". . . .

Every 3 months, when Oscar has a good game, you will come and shout. You only back your assertions when he's flavour of the month.

I'm a nigga who knows ma own mind. I was against Ramires when he was flavour of the month, against Mata when it was sacrilege to speak against him. Backed Lampard when neophytes were calling for his head.

Now Oscar is your flavour of the last 2 weeks, my mind hasn't changed nigga. . . . .he lacks vision.

When Oscar disappears, you will go quiet again.

Ibime:


Check the previous page. His stats since joining Chelsea is 36 passes a game - FACT!

AirborneLacer:

Still, where did I claim that the 'classy' Oscar was better than Lampard?

El Guapo:

He must play and must play now. I know he is young in terms of age, but in terms of majority, he is more than ready and needs to play every match

AirborneLacer:

Fast forward to 2014, Ibime is standing before the world to accuse me of comparing Lampard with Ramires and Mikel, then later rephrased, that I suggested he gets dropped for Mikel and Ramires, without informing the house what, why and how such view came up

Ibime:
it will surely happen unless Oscar learns to play as a genuine central midfielder

dawhizkid1:


Bros Ibime, what is your argument really? I'd like to know.

Oscar doesn't dominate possession? In a 4-2-3-1 system, that's the job of the double Pivot(6/ players. He had an average of 36 passes per game, so what? You want to blame him for José's negative, albeit pragmatic approach? Sometimes last season the whole team didn't even make up to 300 passes.

dawhizkid1:


I'm guessing that you prefer the Classic number 10 type player.
Oscar is not a genuine Central Midfielder, he is a 10, a modern day 10. And whether he gets dropped or not depends on the direction of the team. If Jose Continues with this high press 4-2-3-1 system, Oscar is going nowhere. He is almost indispensable. He only gets dropped when Jose wants to play a Counter attacking style, or a 4-3-3, where Willain or Ramires is preferred respectively.

Ibime:


First of all, Oscar never played in the "park the bus" games so forget that excuse. Jose wouldn't let him.

Go and check Lampard's stats in 2004-2006 under the same Mourinho and tell me whether he was playing only 36 passes a game.

If Oscar's game is not about passing, where are his assists and goals? Na 5 assists and less than 10 goals we go chop every season?


Like I said, I never had no problem with Oscar. He's a good player. This is about holding Guapo accountable for airbrushing Lampard out the way for Oscar. Guapo and I been going at it for the last 2 years over this issue. He won't even acknowledge that Lampard schooled Oscar in his old age, after Guapo shunted Lampard aside to make way for Oscar.

I don't mind Oscar in the team, except for big games. But make no mistake, there are many better midfielders out there. Niggas should just stop gassing after one good game in months. Hazard is his agemate and doing it weekly.

dawhizkid1:


I get you point really. But name ten number 10s, 23yrs and under that are better than Oscar. The fact that you'll struggle to name 7 sef is proof that Oscar is top level. We are building a team for the future that can be equally able to compete at every level now, and Oscar is almost perfect for us in that regard.

All I can say.

Ibime:


Chelsea is in the top 5 clubs in European footie.

So why should I name ten under 23s?

Our AM should equally be in the top 5 or 10 AMS - this is not U17 World Cup we're playing here.

Top-10 Under 23 level players should be playing at Leverkusen, not Chelsea.

If I start listing the Gotze's, Draxlers and Sterlings of this world finish, I'm sure I'll get past 10 sef.

Bimfo:
Ibime just dont like a team that has a 10.. or would I say Ibime does not like a team that plays a 10 in the hole.. He fancies 4-3-3 to 4-5-1.. 3 'Centre' Midfielders that attacks and Defends, 2 Wingers that helps the Full backs, and 1 striker.. No number 10 like Oscar.. He prefers a number 8 like Vidal and Yaya Toure..

But lets get this Straight Ibime, Forget about Oscar previous Stats, and Check out the game on Saturday.. Oscar dint play as a 10.. he Operated mainly as an 8.. (Check what Fabregas said at the Post match talks)

Which brings the question, if Oscar can play beside Matic on Saturday, Y cant he play similar role with proper grooming in the future?? Lets not forget, he is just 23?? He still has the world at his feet..

I am not trying to compare Lampard and Oscar.. But Lampard was Voted as the 2nd best player in the world at 26/27 years.. Oscar still has 4 Years to reach that..

When Lampard got to Chelsea in 2011 at the age of 23, He was not accepted. I even read an article about the fans of Chelsea protesting about him starting a Crucial match against Spurs..

PS: Lampard is a Legend, we gave him time to prove that.. Oscar is still a young player, Give him time!

Bimfo:


Dont mention any German here! Because Draxlers is playing well in German league, does not mean he will perform well in the English.. Draxlers is Over rated..!

Gotze is just a Normal player, he is not extra-Ordinary... Just like Muller..

And U even mention Sterling?? Are U serious about Sterling or you are trolling

Ibime:


There ain't no issue with giving the player time.

Read back the archives. My issue is with Guapo placing Oscar above Lampard the minute Oscar walked through the door.

Same issue - placing Oscar above Kroos, Gotze and Muller the minute Oscar walked through the door.

So after Oscar failed in his first two years, I keep asking him if he was smoking crack, the slimy nigga quickly change his story - claiming credit for "foreseeing Oscar becoming good".

A nigga whose already proclaimed Oscar a great, disrespected genuine greats like Lampard and Bayern midfielders and placed Oscar above them. Oscar flopped for two years - and now when Oscar plays one good game, he will be claiming he is an all seeing Dibia.

Ibime:


Chelsea is in the top 5 clubs in European footie.

So why should I name ten under 23s?

Our AM should equally be in the top 5 or 10 AMS - this is not U17 World Cup we're playing here.

Top-10 Under 23 level players should be playing at Leverkusen, not Chelsea.

If I start listing the Gotze's, Draxlers and Sterlings of this world finish, I'm sure I'll get past 10 sef.