patrickmuf:
See how easy it is to use points difference to argue yet if someone claims Pep's team is better the ones other managers met, you'd argue otherwise...

izzou:


We can all have imaginations but in the end, only facts can be presented

Pep scored his two goals after the red card. As at 50 minutes, he had a very good advantage. Instead of defending Pep, you should be disappointed with that slothful performance.

You keep saying "A team like Wolves", but they have lost 5 matches and drew 9 matches. The teams that took these points from them are not Bayern, Barça or Real Madrid. Some are average teams in the PL.

Because they beat Pep twice doesn't mean you should overrate them. Wolves is still an average team

patrickmuf:
Lol it's the norm for him...He goes silent when his arguments falls on its head.

Eruditor:


I really don't want to talk too much because there is alot to say.

But if you think comparing injuries that are 2-3 weeks long to a replaceable player like Fabinho to a 6 months long injury to Laporte. What are we then discussing?

[s]Let us all pretend Pep did not win last season with Kompany, KdB, Mendy, Fernandinho being out many times last season. So we can say he does not know how to manage.[/s]

patrickmuf:
I understand you have been cornered...

izzou:


I have not challenged Pep's victory last season. He worked for it, he earned it and he deserved it. So that last paragraph is for those who wish to argue about that, not me

And yes, a coach can manage a team well, and perform poorly the next season. Ancelloti was just booted out of Napoli.

Is he a good coach? Yes
Did he manage Napoli well? No

Because Pep won it last season doesn't mean he cannot fall short of expectations and standards

And I still insist, LaPorte's absence is not a reason for their losses. Wolves beat City 2-0 in the first leg. Maybe LaPorte was supposed to assist their forwards in that match.... Maybe

Eruditor:


Just like United have lost home games to small teams and Liverpool could not beat them there. That Wolves have lost and drawn games does not make them bad. For e.g, you conveniently ignored the fact that even with 11 players at Anfield. Liverpool needed a goal that should have been disqualified to beat the same Wolves. But somehow playing with a man down against them at their ground for 80 mins is not a good enough excuse.

Eruditor:


Congrats to Wolves. Hope you saw the role Otamendi (Laporte's replacement) played in that loss as well or maybe you only read the box score to see how that game went.

Eruditor:


If you think the value of Fabinho to Liverpool is the same as Laporte to City. E reach to laugh.

Remember I said that a player is the best does not mean he is not replaceable. For e.g Leicester can survive for a few with Vardy out even though he is better than Iheanacho. Just like City survived without KdB last season. But surviving without Laporte for 6 months is not the same. City conceded 23 goals all season in the EPL last year but this season they have already conceded 24.

izzou:


A man down when you had a two goal lead? Common. You obviously know football better than this

He had 40 minutes to just hold on and get even a draw. Or are you saying Wolves midfielders are better than City's?

That was a very shambolic performance from Pep. If that was a final, it would have been worse.

But what's disappointing is that you Pep loyalists found a way of exonerating him from it, and blaming it on LaPorte's absence.

Eruditor:


If he managed the team to score 2 goals with a man down away from home, maybe the performance was not as shambolic as you are claiming.

izzou:


Of course, I saw it

City has lost to Manchester United, Norwich and the rest. I didn't see you blame Otamendi too

I can also list matches that City has won this season, with Otamendi playing in them. But I didn't see you saying his performance was poor

Eruditor:


You have used your 2 different paragraphs to argue with yourself.

City will not lose every game that Laporte is not playing in. Just like they will not win every game he plays in. But there will be a difference when he is on. Objective people can know the difference and then decide what argument they are trying to make.

patrickmuf:
We will get back to this point of yours when Laporte is back fit and City keeps conceding.

That's how Dayo in a bid to rubbish Van Dijk Said Liverpool's defensive solidity had more to do with Allison and when Allison started conceding, he brought Matip into the picture...

When Laporte is back, the next talk will be Sane.

izzou:


Lol

I think I'm done with this back and forth arguments.

Maybe his performance was not shambolic.
All his losses this season would have been averted it only LaPorte was on the pitch

Have a splendid day, sire

Eruditor:


Laporte was on the pitch when City lost 4 games last season and Liverpool lost only 1. But somehow City still won the league. So maybe losing games is not as important as a non-shambolic observer would want to admit.

patrickmuf:


If motivation should suffice as an excuse, then we should gives props to the likes of Fergie who also found a way to keep the players motivated in spite of their successes in the league. It is one area where I think Fergie is significantly better than Pep, Mourinho and the likes. I have not added Klopp because I want to see how well he will handle the pressure that comes with staying at the top of the log after they prolly win the league this season but based on his time with BVB, he fits into the bracket of short term managers.

Unlimited22:
Pep is a very good coach and has done well in England, albeit backed by the Country's best Venture funding.

The problem na say when City dominate it's all down to Pep and his over 200 IQ, but when they fail it's down to the players, injuries, VAR, the English FA, UEFA, Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, the pitch, global warming, the fans etc.

Make it make sense. Please make it make sense.

A40:

Let us judge Klopp with a team where his best players cannot be poached. There's no telling how far he would have gone at Dortmund if he wasn't losing his best players every season either to us or some other European team.

After coming so close last season I never would have imagined Liverpool would be able to muster this kind of effort. 58 points from 60. And the more titles they win the stronger the mentality. You EPL people should be very afraid

A40:

Let us judge Klopp with a team where his best players cannot be poached. There's no telling how far he would have gone at Dortmund if he wasn't losing his best players every season either to us or some other European team.

After coming so close last season I never would have imagined Liverpool would be able to muster this kind of effort. 58 points from 60. And the more titles they win the stronger the mentality. You EPL people should be very afraid

izzou:


A man down when you had a two goal lead? Common. You obviously know football better than this

He had 40 minutes to just hold on and get even a draw. Or are you saying Wolves midfielders are better than City's?

That was a very shambolic performance from Pep. If that was a final, it would have been worse.

But what's disappointing is that you Pep loyalists found a way of exonerating him from it, and blaming it on LaPorte's absence.

TalabiAudu:



Baba you sabi.

People thinking Liverpool will bottle it because of their known bottling spirit are actually clowning.

Since they won that UCL, everything ended there. They now have winners mentality and that's what would make you win the league.

There are some points a normal Liverpool they would have dropped this season.

Let Pap Fraudiola fans continue to clown

Upnepaa:


Talking about Pep, Klopp, Mourinho. They are all good coaches. saying one of them is a fraud because his team is failing despite spending huge amounts money on transfers is a rubbish Idea.

Mou and Pep have failed in the past despite spending a lot.

Klopp has failed when having good players.

They've all succeeded when they were underdogs and won trophies against all odds.

We should hug the reality now that football is now money and money is now football.

After years of failure, even Klopp knows he can't succeed without money, it is until he spent huge money of the transfers of Alisson, Van dijk (most notably) Salah, Keita that the results start coming.

As for Mourinho, no be him nearly drove Chelsea to relegation or no be him nearly knocked down United in his recent job. look at him now, Tottenham is his new abode.

Upnepaa:


You are partially right.

Pep is a good coach but I as a person does not like overrating people above their normal level. that's why I will never compare Pep to the great Sir Alex Ferguson?

But you need to tackle the other side of the debate too, that is, chanting pep is a fraud up and down as if it will solve the myriad of challenges of their own club. Yes, Pep is Overrated? but is he a fraud at the same? or is the word fraud is being abused here? or many of his critics don't even know the meaning of fraud.

pamcode:
Did you watch the wolves match bro? That loss was on Mendy and otamendi if you ask me. What was Pep supposed to do to prevent Mendy from doing a poor job of shielding the ball? Or otamendi refusing to stay on his feet rather choosing to jump in allowing Doherty to easily sidefoot him and score with his weaker foot. City losses this has been due to both Pep mgt and Injuries. You are using a wrong scenario to prove your point bro.

pamcode:
Did you watch the wolves match bro? That loss was on Mendy and otamendi if you ask me. What was Pep supposed to do to prevent Mendy from doing a poor job of shielding the ball? Or otamendi refusing to stay on his feet rather choosing to jump in allowing Doherty to easily sidefoot him and score with his weaker foot. City losses this has been due to both Pep mgt and Injuries. You are using a wrong scenario to prove your point bro.

izzou:


Injuries?

Kindly state the injured players, and the replacements that are not good enough for those positions

airmark:


Maybe Fraudiola should go and learn how to train his defenders, the art of defending properly.

pamcode:
Sane - Sterling and bernando have not replicated their last season performance especially the lattter.

Laporte- Fernandinho has been an able deputy but it has also deprived city of his steel in midfield. The struggles of otamendi and stones are well documented I believe. Rodri who replaced Fernandinho at the base of the midfield is still finding his feet.

Zinchenko/ Mendy - Zinchenko came in as a result of Mendy's Injury and deputized well until his Injury and Angelino came in for him and has been suspect defensively. Mendy came in too and seems to have lost his pace and crossing that added to his defensive weakness beforehand.

Silva, Aguero have all had their spells out of the team. What you people don't understand about the style Pep uses is that it is a high risk system that requires all of the players in the system understanding their role and be able to execute it. Just one weakness is enough for the whole team to collapse.

Pep himself takes part of the blame the game against United for example playing such a high line against a team with pacy players built for counter and him knowing his defence was suspect was suicide as far as I know.