I was very good in intuitions in the past. I could tell exactly what time was it, and i had to develop to an extent i could tell whats happening somewhere without any information. I've also experienced out of body twice. I was into mysticism then. i must confess back then i always felt joy and i had less problems. But i still wonder why so many people (christians) frown at mysticism, is it because they dont understand it? is mysticism evil?

jerrymania:

I was very good in intuitions in the past. I could tell exactly what time was it, and i had to develop to an extent i could tell whats happening somewhere without any information. I've also experienced out of body twice. I was into mysticism then. i must confess back then i always felt joy and i had less problems. But i still wonder why so many people (christians) frown at mysticism, is it because they don't understand it? is mysticism evil?

you must either be an eckist, buddhist or into some other forms of occultic organizations.
I was also into all these some years back, but the thing is that there's no gain in all these, and you are already binding your sould for the after-life period.

What you should concern yourself with now is, getting to know the will of the almighty and striving to leave accordingly, thats the best activity a human soul on earth should concern himself with.

All thanks to the book; In The Light Of Truth: The Grail Message. It showed me the way and point to the different errors i've engaged myself with. If you seek with all humility you will see the book is worth millions of books.

Desist from all forms of mystic practices before it's too late.

enitan2002:

you must either be an eckist, buddhist or into some other forms of occultic organizations.
I was also into all these some years back, but the thing is that there's no gain in all these, and you are already binding your sould for the after-life period.

What you should concern yourself with now is, getting to know the will of the almighty and striving to leave accordingly, thats the best activity a human soul on earth should concern himself with.

All thanks to the book; In The Light Of Truth: The Grail Message. It showed me the way and point to the different errors i've engaged myself with. If you seek with all humility you will see the book is worth millions of books.

Desist from all forms of mystic practices before it's too late.

enitan2002 Your experiences sounds like mine. I was raised a catholic, raised to become a catholic priest, At 18 I rebelled and became born again. I was almost a pastor when I left and tried the teachings of AMORC. Still my inner longing for the truth continued. My brother persuaded me to join eckanker which I did. All to no avail since soon I became dissatisfied and my longing continued until I came across The Grail Message and it completely changed my life.
I have no doubt that the Grail message is from the Truth and contains the Truth in its pure form. jerrymania, I advise you to get a copy of The Grail message and read.

justcool:

enitan2002 Your experiences sounds like mine. I was raised a catholic, raised to become a catholic priest, At 18 I rebelled and became born again. I was almost a pastor when I left and tried the teachings of AMORC. Still my inner longing for the truth continued. My brother persuaded me to join eckanker which I did. All to no avail since soon I became dissatisfied and my longing continued until I came across The Grail Message and it completely changed my life.
I have no doubt that the Grail message is from the Truth and contains the Truth in its pure form. jerrymania, I advise you to get a copy of The Grail message and read.

its really nice hearing from a brother that passed through a similar experience like mine.

The word of the lord in The Grail Message can never be compared with any other Holy Books, It stands completely on its own.

You are welcome brother.

@ Jerrmania

How can anything dedicated to better understanding be evil?

What u were involved in was not mysticism, it was magic ans trasposition.

Justcool and Enitan2002

I have heard my members of the GM speak and i have many close friends amongst them. It is not in my place to judge you but is GM the way? or is it just one of the ways? a way rather than the way? I thought such declarations were the exclusive prerogative of fanatics. And you call Eckankar and Buddism occultic organisations> that is sad. esp since this is what religious people think that you are!


Every true seeker will be cosmically guided. Pls check the meaning of mysticism in any dictionary and see what you come up with.

May it please the cosmic to grant us all wisdom and understanding.

Peace Profiound

There is no other name on earth that can save you from your past, apart from the Name of Jesus Christ, The King of Kings and Lord of Lords! He is the ONLY Way to God!

enitan2002:

its really nice hearing from a brother that passed through a similar experience like mine.

The word of the lord in The Grail Message can never be compared with any other Holy Books, It stands completely on its own.

You are welcome brother.

Thanks. You're very right, The Grail Message does stand completely on its own.

Shaman:

@ Jerrmania

How can anything dedicated to better understanding be evil?

What u were involved in was not mysticism, it was magic ans trasposition.

Justcool and Enitan2002

I have heard my members of the GM speak and i have many close friends amongst them. It is not in my place to judge you but is GM the way? or is it just one of the ways? a way rather than the way? I thought such declarations were the exclusive prerogative of fanatics. And you call Eckankar and Buddism occultic organisations> that is sad. esp since this is what religious people think that you are!


Every true seeker will be cosmically guided. Please check the meaning of mysticism in any dictionary and see what you come up with.

May it please the cosmic to grant us all wisdom and understanding.

Peace Profiound

where do you stand? Thats my first question for you to answer.

Dont get me wrong, who am i to say one form of a religious group is an occult one?

I never said Eckist and buddhist are occult, read my post again and you will see i didnt mention that, what we cant shy away from is that occult groups exist, but the judgement is not for me to say a particular one is into occult practices, but dont forget by their fruits, ye all shall know them

The Grail Message is one and same with the true message the Son of God (JESUS) brought some 2000 years ago.

He that accept the message that JESUS brought then in its truest sense also will find no difficulty accepting the Grail Message as it is.

But where can one find the true message of Jesus in its undistorted form in the present day life?

@all

Glad that I have heard from you today words that should come from those with better understanding.

@enitan2002

where i stand? simple: on the side of love trancedental; on the side of truth justice and fairness; on the side of peace and beauty, enough?

U wonder where one may find chris in times like these? Again simple: within your heart. remember God of your heart and understanding?

@Jerrymania

I dont think what you are saying is false and you need not be a frater. What I said and am still saying is that mysticism is not about abstact travel or out of body experiences, it's about individual enlightenment and upliftment.

Peace profound

@ shaman,

your case is just like a man sitting at the top of a tree staring at a mountain top, and you were making fun at those standing on their two feet on ground who were making effort to get to the top of the mountain.
Just because you see yourself above the ground compared with them, you count yourself more enlightened, and those on ground after to much walking and struggling will find their way to the mountain top, just because you so much cherish still being at tree top, you never make it to the mountain, and sooner or later when a whirlwind comes forth, it will sweep you off the top of the tree, and those on the mountain top will saved, cos their stand will firm.


Why waste your whole earth-life trying to project yourself to a world which trully is the same with this physical world?
Why not strive to see what the creator required of you on this earth?

Get to know the will of your creator and starts living accordingly.
Thats the best a man can achieve instead of wasting his precious and limited time in astral-projection?

Grail movement does not believe in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, so how can its teachings be compatible with the Divine Message of Jesus Christ who had declared that He is the Only Way To God?

@Ndipe

Your statement on the Grail Message concerning the resurrection of Jesus, the son of God is not correct. The Grail Message states that Jesus rose from the dead in a spiritual body, not with the physical body. Therefore the reported sightings of Jesus after his ressurection are correct but it is wrong to infer that he rose with the physical body. Jesus picked his physical body on earth and for him to go back to back to his Father, he has to drop the physical body on earth. A physical body that is made of flesh and blood cannot rise to heaven in which there is no flesh and blood. Thus Jesus, the son of God did not resurrect with a body of flesh and blood. Jesus appeared to his disciples after death to show them that the life survives physical death and that physical death is simply a transition. That death is simply the droping of the physical body and the soul lives on. It is impossible for the physical body to rise to heaven that is made of spiritual substance.

What is impossible with man is possible with God.

Since your organization states that Jesus Christ did not rise physically, then, how is it that he was still bearing the scars of his crucifixion? Read this verse

John 20:19-31 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

   

19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD.

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

@Ndipe

Thanks for your reply. Your statement of what is impossible for man is possible for God is correct. However in this instance ascension to heaven with a physical body is impossible because that is the law of God. The perfection of God is such that God cannot contradict or disobey his own laws. For instance God cannot sin, God cannot murder etc. As to the question you raised, the wound marks were present in the non-physical body of Jesus. The physical action of those that murdered Jesus didnot start with the physical torns and spears. Their voilitions to inflict wound marks on the Saviour has a form that is of the same non earthly consistency as the non-earthly body of Jesus. That means that even before they physically put the torn and the spear on the physical body of Jesus, their intention to do so which cannot be physically seen has a form that imprints itself on the non-earthly body of Jesus. Therefore all the wound marks on the physical body of Jesus has a mirror image (non-physical) in the non-physical body of Jesus. Thus it is correct that the body the diciples saw has wound marks but the wound marks are not physical but non-earthly. Ordinarily, the disciples would not be able to see and feel the risen Christ because their own non-physical bodies including the eyes, ears etc were not opened. Jesus for this very occassion opened the non-earthly organs of his disciples and they were able to see, torch, hear and feel the non-physical body of the Saviour. Thomas doubted and Jesus wanted to convice Thomas that it was the LORD. Jesus then opened the non-earthly body of Thomas so that Thomas can feel the wound marks in the body of the risen LORD. Telescoped with the physical body of each individual are non-earthly bodies. Indeed the physical body is a material replica of the non-earthly body. The fact that Jesus was in a non-earthly body makes it possible for him to pass through closed doors, suddenly appear and disappear etc. In all instances in which the diciples communicated with the risen Chirist, their eyes were opened. The opening of their eyes does not refer to the physical eyes but to the spiritual eyes. Therefore the appearance of the wound marks on the risen Christ is correct and in the sense of the laws of God. I also want to add that it is possible within the laws of God to bring people back from the dead. The son of God raised Lazurus from the dead. In that case Lazurus has to live as a human being in flesh and blood until a new earthly death occurred. I also wish to point out that all of us carry the nature of our activities in our non-earthly bodies and these could easily be seen by one who God has opened his eyes. Although it does not belong to the question you raised directly, suffice it to say that our thoughts, voilitions, etc are impriinted in our non-physical bodies. Therefore, imagine a young girl who have commmited several abortions and is chastisizing fellow girls for immorality and then the eyes of those she is accusing got opened and they saw several bodies of small children hanging from the neck of the pious hypocritical girl. With the knowlegge mediated in the Grail Message, a gate will open that will lead all serious seekers to God and his son Jesus Christ. Thank you.

So, what is your belief of the conception of Jesus Christ, the Immaculate Conception which defies the laws of nature? Are you inclined to believe it, or does it, because it goes against the laws of nature renders the story invalid?

I have read some of your verses, and nowhere does it say in the Holy Bible that Thomas was able to touch and feel the wounds of Jesus Christ in his celestial body.

One question that I have to inquire from you, do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Way to God? If not, then the message of the grail movement deviates from the Teachings of the Holy Scriptures.

Although quoting the Bible could be very controversial, as the Bible has gone through so many translations which dimes the purity of some of the Truths contained in it and, people have different interpretations of the bible. Nevertheless, there are certain parts of the Bible that still contains the Truth and in such clarity that cannot be questioned.
In issues like the resurrection of the dead, 1st Corinthians chapter 15 made it clear that it is not the physical body that resurrects but a different body.

(1st Corinthians)
“All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.” (15:39)
“There are also celestial bodies, and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial differs from that of the terrestrial.” (15:40)
“There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.” (15:41)
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.” (15:42)
“It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.” (15:43)

Verse 40(above) tells us that there are Celestial bodies (non-physical bodies) and terrestrial bodies (Physical bodies)
The Grail message gives a very complete and clear knowledge of these non-physical bodies, which are: Astral, Ethereal, Animistic, and Spiritual body.
Each body is designed facilitate man in various planes: each body has a consistency corresponding to a particular plane in creation. I.e. The physical body is made up off physical substances; it has the same consistency with the physical plane, to which the earth belongs. We need the physical body on earth in other to live physically on earth. When earthly death occurs, it is only the physical that dies; we bury the physical body on earth while the soul still exists with the astral body as it outermost body. For the soul to go above the astral region, it must shed its astral body in the astral plane as it once did with the physical. It can only enter the ethereal realm with his ethereal body as the outermost body, the same applies with the animistic body: it can only enter the animistic world with the animistic body as the outer most covering. Then finally, it may be allowed to enter the spiritual world, to which paradise belongs: but than he must have dropped all other bodies and only with the spiritual body can it enter the spiritual world. So while we are physically alive on earth, we wear the physical body as our outermost covering, over all the four non-physical bodies. As we go up through various planes of creation we drop each body at the plane where it belongs in order to go to a higher one. Only when have dropped all the bodies, wearing only the innermost which is the spiritual body can we enter paradise.

Therefore the writer of 1st Corinthians (some people believe it was Paul) was right to say.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body.
(Chapter 15: 44)

The writer of Corinthians, perhaps from experience or from revelation knew that there are many bodies which he called celestial bodies but through the Grail message, a complete knowledge of these bodies are given.

Therefore, after the crucification of Jesus, which led to the death of His physical body. He emerged in a different body and his disciples were allowed to see with there inner eyes this non-physical body of Jesus, which otherwise the physical eye could not see.
You can tell that this body was not the physical body of Jesus, which the apostles knew very well, it was a different body, that was why even Mary did not recognize Jesus the first time she saw him after His physical death.

“She turned around and saw Jesus standing there, and did not know it was Jesus.”
(John 20:14)

You can also tell that it was not His physical body because the body did not have the same consistency with the physical. I.e. it can pass through physical doors.

This is the best I can explain. For a better and complete explanation read the Grail Message: In the Light of Truth by Abd-ru-shin.

@Ndipe,

It is not my intention to compare the Grail Message with the bible or sacred texts of other religions. I simply state my understanding of the Grail Message with respect to questions people raise. It is left for people to arrive at their own conclusions about the Grail Message. The new questions you raised can easily and clearly be explained by the Grail Message. However in framing your question, you have already given a condition to whatever is my answer. Inspite of that I will go ahead and give you an answer. The Grail Message teaches that Jesus Christ is the son of God. It does not just teach it but it explained the very nature of Godhead, the Trinity. If you have a copy of the Grail Message, go and read the lecture entilted "GOD" and also read the lecture of how creation came into being entitled "Let their be Light". Those lectures and others besides can give you a clue of where the Grail Message comes from. The Grail Message also teaches that Jesus Christ is the resurrection and life and no body comes to the Father except through him. The details of how Christ is the resurrection and life is explained without a gap in the Grail Message. He who genuinely desires to know how and why Jesus, the son of God is the resurrection and life and nobody comes to the Father except through him should read the Grail Message. Equally explained in the Grail Message is the immaculate conception and any person who wants to know how immaculate conception is compatible with the laws of God should read the Grail Message. All I know is that the Message of Jesus Christ and the Grail Message are one and the same. Wheather or not people agree with that is their decision not mine. One thing is CERTAIN, any genuine believer will here or hereafter attain the necessary recognition of the WILL of God and that will include the fact that Jesus Christ is the son of God and that the Grail Message and the Message of Jesus came directly from God. Both are proclamation of the eternal Truth.

@ enitan2002,

your case is just like a man sitting at the top of a tree staring at a mountain top, and you were making fun at those standing on their two feet on ground who were making effort to get to the top of the mountain.

Enitan2002,

where in my posts did i display such arrogance? Did I say anywhere that I was better, that I had knowledge that's inaccessible to others? Haba!

Get to know the will of your creator and starts living accordingly.
Thats the best a man can achieve instead of wasting his precious and limited time in astral-projection?

Again, where did I suggest that i was involved or even remotely interested in astral travelling? Didi u actually read my response to jerrymania? My mystical quest is not extended to such lengths and will never be. Also, how did you come to the conclusion that I didnt have an idea of the will of my creator and that I ahve not started living accordingly?

Hmmm, this are interesting declarations from a member of a respected organisation like the Grail Message.

@m-nwankwo,

I like the flow of your thoughts; shows a lot of maturity, the fold of students of mysticism is the last place to find acrimony and exclusivist declarations.
We should know better.

May it please the cosmic to always guide our journey through the path of light and berth humility in our hearts. so mote it be.

Peace Profound.

Shaman

jerrymania (m)
Port Harcourt
Posts: 1108

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Is Mysticism Evil?
« on: November 12, 2007, 10:27 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was very good in intuitions in the past. I could tell exactly what time was it, and i had to develop to an extent i could tell whats happening somewhere without any information. I've also experienced out of body twice. I was into mysticism then. i must confess back then i always felt joy and i had less problems. But i still wonder why so many people (christians) frown at mysticism, is it because they don't understand it? is mysticism evil?

Do you need the approval or the christians for you to live your life the way you supposedly want to?? @Jerrymania. If you really felt job and had less problems, why did you stop?? for what another man told you ?? Why do you care what Christians believe when it comes to what you believe??

Yes, Christianity frowns on mysticism and I am not sure Christianity is going to Change on it's views just become some dude called JERRYMANIA wants them to. Why are not comfortable with Christians not agreeing with you in this?? @Jerrymania

The following Biblical verses are proofs that Jesus Christ Rose physically from the grave, not spiritually as some other religious organizations claim it was.

John 20: 9 For as yet they knew not the Scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

"Again" is used in this context to proof that as He stated, He will resurrect from the Grave.


Another verse that counters the erroneous belief that Jesus Christ did not rise phyisically is this:

"And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:38-39). (http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesus_resurrection.htm)

John 10: 17: "This is why the Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again."

@Ndipe,

I am aware of the verses you quoted to support your view that Jesus rose from dead in a physical body and by implication ascended to heaven in a physical body. As a personal rule, I do not try to explain my understanding of The Grail Message by using the beliefs of others as a base. I state what I am permitted by the grace of God to know from the Grail Message. Whether or not people think it is erroneous or true is precisely their own decision, not mine. Thus, I will not engage in quotes and counter quotes. I have previously but briefly laid down why it is impossible for a physical substance like the physical body to be transformed into non-earthly body. The Grail Message mediates the complete knowlege of the working of God in his Love and Justice. Those who genuinely seek will find in the Grail Message all that the need to be granted the grace of finally going to heaven, and being a servant of God. If such a seeker leaves according to laws of God, he or she will be permitted to personally experience the knowlege mediated in the Grail Message. That personal experience will convince him or her beyound all doubt that the Grail Message and the Message of Jesus are the same. Thus if such a seeking one needs to see clearly the events of the crucification and resurrection of Jesus in order to be convinced about the Truth, he or she can be granted the special grace of withnessing the events of 2000 years ago. Every happening in creation is indelibly recorded by the laws of God. Thanks.

@Shaman,

Thanks for your compliment. However I am not a student of mysticism. I am a person who have experienced the Grail Message as Truth. He or she who have experinced the Grail Message do not attack the views of various religious movements and cults. This is because the experiencing of the Truth of the Grail Message gives one the conviction that the WILL of God reigns Supreme and that in the end, only that which is in harmony with the laws of God will permanently exist. All else that is not in acordance with the Laws of God will be annihilated by the power of God. Therefore why should one waste his strenghth disputing and refuting the beliefs of others when the Laws of God will provide tangible and clear verdict on various religious movements and what they believe in. The WILL of God manifests in the irrevocable march of events for individauls, nations, the universe and indeed all creations. Therefore every human being (those on earh and those who have already died) will at somepoint experince the effects of the WILL of God and will be left in no doubt whether or not he or she is on the right spiritual path. Thank you and best wishes.