PhysicsQED:

Just for the record, "epha" is NOT derivative of what the Yoruba call "ifa", rather they share the same source. The same system is known by a virtual legion of ethnic groups by various related names. The notion of some sort of ethnic exclusivity is modern academic mythology.

Haba PhysicsQED, this one na mistake on your part. I got this from Urhobo website



"Many communities of the world have a tradition that involves disguising speech. The Yoruba have "Ena" code talking which has a definite pattern. There is a "pig latin" in North America. The Tagalag of North America have theirs; also the Bakwiri of Camerouns have a language in which they speak backwards.


It is obvious, therefore, that the development of some kind of disguised speech, such as we suggest was done in the case of Epha, is not a novel or isolated phenomenon."

"We have tried to show above that the need to consult the supernatural world drives people to consult "Epha" which may be compared with Yoruba Ifa. We have explained the physical structure of the "Epha" instrument, the supposed source of its power to communicate with the "other" world, and the general procedure for consulting Epha."

http://www.waado.org/urhoboculture/religion/nabofa/divination/epha.html

PhysicsQED:

Just for the record, "epha" is NOT derivative of what the Yoruba call "ifa". The same system is known by a virtual legion of ethnic groups by various related names. The notion of some sort of ethnic exclusivity is modern academic mythology.

Why do you guys bury the head of your king in ile-ife?

Why do you call your kings oba?

Why do you worship ogun?

Why did the aworis call on the benins to help protect them from dahomey - when oyo's calvary couldn't do the task because of the eko terrain, and the swampy nature of eko?

Why was there no war between oyo and benin - despite the two empires being side by side for hundreds of years

Brixtonyute:

I already said they suffer from low self-esteem!!

It's like the anglo-saxons claiming that they're not germanic..

Or saying English language didn't come from latin...

[s]Benin people are backstabbers, and fakers.[/s]..

This I know only occur on NL. I can't imagine calling a bini telling me he is not yoruba, It is crazy. To say the very least.

Every single ethnic group in Nigeria wants to be their own nation. This madness only occur in Nigeria.

Imagine a very tiny group like Ika saying it is her own Nation as well (50 square kilometers) is a nation. Very sad divisive mind African have

I am waiting for PhysicsQED to tell me the difference between Epha and Ifa BTW.

There are no intellectual minds here to discuss with. Its just going to turn into one of those silly boko harem threads where things are plucked out of thin air and putrid anuses without the least understanding, while id!otic assertions are made with no backing. So I'm out.

Negro_Ntns:

. . You should be interested in Osahon's myth since you fervently oppose Egarhevba's. They are the two sides of the Bini coin.

Afrocentric accounts told by Negro distresses you, I want you to enjoy this topic about Edo, as told by Osahon.

Why do people keep throwing around Egharevba's name when they haven't bothered to read him?

Egharevba said the Binis came from Egypt before this Osahon guy was even born. The Yorubas have their Egyptian or Near eastern fantasies as well so it's nothing out of the ordinary for southern Nigeria.

By the way I hold Egharevba in infinitely higher esteem than this Osahon chap, so don't misrepresent my views. I only posted on this topic to find out about the Yoruba-Kanuri entanglement, since what you guys are talking about now is no longer interesting.

alj harem:

This I know only occur on NL. I can't imagine calling a bini telling me he is not yoruba, It is crazy. To say the very least.

Every single ethnic group in Nigeria wants to be their own nation. This madness only occur in Nigeria.

Imagine a very tiny group like Ika saying it is her own Nation as well (50 square kilometers) is a nation. Very sad divisive mind African have

Don't mind them..

Oyo empire fought wars with: nupe, hausa, fulani, dahomey, ashanti, and songhay - yet they never deem it right to expand towards benin kingdom, which was right next to them...

And these benin clowns are so quick to tell us they are not yorubas.. If you're not yorubas - then, those who occupy present day edo state are not the benin people of the past - because the benin people of the past were yorubas.

[s]

Beaf: There are no intellectual minds here to discuss with. Its just going to turn into one of those silly boko harem threads where things are plucked out of thin air and putrid anuses without the least understanding, while id!otic assertions are made with no backing. So I'm out.

[/s]

We should ask this Oba to tell us what he knows about the blood ties and hierarchy between Ife and Bini. He has both the Ife and Bini blood in him and he is schooled in his ancestral roots.

Beaf: There are no intellectual minds here to discuss with. Its just going to turn into one of those silly boko harem threads where things are plucked out of thin air and putrid anuses without the least understanding, while id!otic assertions are made with no backing. So I'm out.

people are discussing empires and great civilizations that live above sea level, leeches that live in mud buried in the coastal reef is talking.

PhysicsQED:


Why do people keep throwing around Egharevba's name when they haven't bothered to read him?

Egharevba said the Binis came from Egypt before this Osahon guy was even born. The Yorubas have their Egyptian or Near eastern fantasies as well so it's nothing out of the ordinary for southern Nigeria.

By the way I hold Egharevba in infinitely higher esteem than this Osahon chap, so don't misrepresent my views. I only posted on this topic to find out about the Yoruba-Kanuri entanglement, since what you guys are talking about now is no longer interesting.

When I discussed the Yoruba-Kanuri topic, you saw it, you read it. . .why did it take this long for you to enquire about information. Take a look at the topic on this thread. . . do you see Yoruba-Kanuri?

We are talking about Osahon and your Omo N'oba. Fill in the gap across the desert between Egypt and Bini.

alj harem: I am waiting for PhysicsQED to tell me the difference between Epha and Ifa BTW.

You obviously haven't read up on this in any detail hence your going to that website. My point, which you don't seem to get is that it is factually wrong to even so much as imply that the numerous versions of that divination system are "Yoruba derived". I'm not going to bother to belabor this point since ive already looked at this in detail and I know that I would get nothing from here that would improve on the facts that I already do have.

Negro_Ntns:

When I discussed the Yoruba-Kanuri topic, you saw it, you read it. . .why did it take this long for you to enquire about information. Take a look at the topic on this thread. . . do you see Yoruba-Kanuri?

We are talking about Osahon and your Omo N'oba. Fill in the gap across the desert between Egypt and Bini.

I never saw or read about any Yoruba-Kanuri episode from your collection of stories, or else I would not be asking for it now. Kindly provide a link. I'm only familiar with the legend of Gobir and Yoruba from you so far.

Negro_Ntns: Osahon, discovering a gap to explain the ancestry and root of the Bini Oba lept over to Egypt. Inbetween Bini and Egypt can he find traces of Bini or Ogiso in existing cultures, whether Hausa, Kanuri, Fulani to explain presence and foothold?

Ile Ife and Yoruba has presence and tracks left behind in Gobir, Kanuri, Sudan. . . . dotted line start-and-stop points that form an integral link between Ife and AfroAsia.

Tell Osahon to reconstruct his story and resubmit.

Negro

Forget this far eastern story.

Orunmila as the progenitor of the Yoruba did not trek from Mecca or Medina or Cairo.

Unfortunately, I don't have too much time on my hands today.

Negro_Ntns: We should ask this Oba to tell us what he knows about the blood ties and hierarchy between Ife and Bini. He has both the Ife and Bini blood in him and he is schooled in his ancestral roots.

Actually the Oba of Lagos supported the Oba of Benin's account a few years ago and he was criticized for it by some people. So maybe we should not dwell on that.

Let's instead dwell on Yoruba and Kanuri and Sudan.

PhysicsQED:

I never saw or read about any Yoruba-Kanuri episode from your collection of stories, or else I would not be asking for it now. Kindly provide a link. I'm only familiar with the legend of Gobir and Yoruba from you so far.

If you have knowledge of me talking about it, then apparently you read it or was told about it. That was your opportunity when it was a live discussion to jump in and get clarifications. "The Correct History of Edo" is live in discussion, "Yoruba-Kanuri" is not. Do not sidestep my challenge to you to share your roadmap across the desert between Egypt and Bini.

cogitoErgo: @Arosa, Izoduwa, according to the above article acquired the title of Ooni, meaning there was an Ooni b4 him, but the article said that Izoduwa is the same as Oduduwa! Which according to any known Yoruba oral history, known to all Yoruba kingdoms and even the Ooni himself, is not true! Oduduwa was not an 'Uho' could never have been one. Hence, the article above get 'K-leg'

The rulers at Ife before Oduduwa were called Orelu ore.

PhysicsQED:

Actually the Oba of Lagos supported the Oba of Benin's account a few years ago and he was criticized for it by some people. So maybe we should not dwell on that.

Let's instead dwell on Yoruba and Kanuri and Sudan.

lol@few years ago. How many years and which Oba, Oyekan or Akiolu?

Negro_Ntns:

If you have knowledge of me talking about it, then apparently you read it or was told about it. That was your opportunity when it was a live discussion to jump in and get clarifications. "The Correct History of Edo" is live in discussion, "Yoruba-Kanuri" is not. Do not sidestep my challenge to you to share your roadmap across the desert between Egypt and Bini.

I have knowledge of it only from your mention of it on this thread. Kindly elaborate on the Yoruba-Kanuri history. Thanks.

Negro_Ntns:
lol@few years ago. How many years and which Oba, Oyekan or Akiolu?

Oba Rilwan Akiolu. Like 9 or 10 years ago.

Anyway, that's not what I'm presently interested in. Let's hear about the Kanuri. Alj harem can probably help you out with that one.

PhysicsQED:

I have knowledge of it only from your mention of it on this thread. Kindly elaborate on the Yoruba-Kanuri history. Thanks.

There is nothing in Sultan Bello's account that is new to you or any of us here. That was a corroboration from a Fulani in synch with accounts in Ife.

In fact Clapperton's interview with him was primarily to make discoveries about the origins of the Eyos (Oyos). Clapperton, being an adventurer himself, believed that Fulani nomadic lifestyle is adventurous and therefore they will serve as a reliable source, on account of their broad and distance travels across the desert belt from Mauritania to Sudan in caravans and with herds down to the savannah grasslands, and will be a far better authority from whom to learn and discover about the Eyo (Oyo) people.

So Sultan Bello narrated, tracking the beginning from Lamarudu in AfroAsia to Oduduwa in Ife and everything else inbetween where they had stopped and influenced cultures- Kanuri and Sudan and Gobir were mentioned by him. Modern researches are making new discoveries that back up that account.

Now,. . .give us your navigation from Egypt to Bini and every oasis inbetween that you stopped to replenish your camel.

Negro_Ntns:

people are discussing empires and great civilizations that live above sea level, leeches that live in mud buried in the coastal reef is talking.

It is the low self esteem in you that expesses itself in ethnic bigotry. It is that same low self-esteem that leads people like you to forge history.
That same low self-esteem causes you to be engrossed in the revisionist "history" you have forged.

Its like the KKK, Nazi's, BNP and other bunches of mad men.

Pathetic.

Beaf:

It is the low self esteem in you that expesses itself in ethnic bigotry. It is that same low self-esteem that leads people like you to forge history.
That same low self-esteem causes you to be engrossed in the revisionist "history" you have forged.

Its like the KKK, Nazi's, BNP and other bunches of mad men.

Pathetic.

Take your turn on the queue. . . line up behind Physics and wait for me to call you for your own narration of your roots and how you ended up in the creek.

Negro_Ntns:

Take your turn on the queue. . . line up behind Physics and wait for me to call you for your own narration of your roots and how you ended up in the creek.

Low self-esteem is your problem and it shows.
Its really sad.

Keep on waxing fairy tales as your history, because you think it makes you belong. It doesn't.
It only shows you up as a jerk clutching at straws.

When will you start your own KKK or Nazi party so that other pathetic clods in your category of men with lil di.cks can join in?

Negro ntns, I'm familiar with the Clapperton-Bello stuff and have been for a while. I didn't ask about that, but about details regarding Yoruba-Kanuri entanglement.

By the way, given that no Bini poster in this thread so far has accepted the "Egypt ----> Edo" stuff or expressed even the slightest belief in it, why do you keep repeating that request?

I'm not interested in Egypt------>West Africa claims.

Negro_Ntns:

There is nothing in Sultan Bello's account that is new to you or any of us here. That was a corroboration from a Fulani in synch with accounts in Ife.

In fact Clapperton's interview with him was primarily to make discoveries about the origins of the Eyos (Oyos). Clapperton, being an adventurer himself, believed that Fulani nomadic lifestyle is adventurous and therefore they will serve as a reliable source, on account of their broad and distance travels across the desert belt from Mauritania to Sudan in caravans and with herds down to the savannah grasslands, and will be a far better authority from whom to learn and discover about the Eyo (Oyo) people.

So Sultan Bello narrated, tracking the beginning from Lamarudu in AfroAsia to Oduduwa in Ife and everything else inbetween where they had stopped and influenced cultures- Kanuri and Sudan and Gobir were mentioned by him. Modern researches are making new discoveries that back up that account.

Now,. . .give us your navigation from Egypt to Bini and every oasis inbetween that you stopped to replenish your camel.

The account of Sultan Bello, in his Infaq al maysur, that Yoruba people were expelled from Iraq by Yarub Qhatan is a fairy tale.

I believe it was a tale started by Muslim scholars to make converting Yorubas to Islam easier by highlighting the similarities in origin of the Yoruba, Fulani, Kanem, Songhay, etc.

PhysicsQED: Negro ntns, I'm familiar with the Clapperton-Bello stuff and have been for a while. I didn't ask about that, but about details regarding Yoruba-Kanuri entanglement.

By the way, given that no Bini poster in this thread so far has accepted the "Egypt ----> Edo" stuff or expressed even the slightest belief in it, why do you keep repeating that request?

I'm not interested in Egypt------>West Africa claims.

Then Im vindicated in my first assertion that you are interested in singling Negro out for attack. You attempted to brush it off, but it has become apparent and its hard to hide under "light tease" for excuse.

My challenge to bokohalal was to use that same model of accounting through an independent source that existed for Yoruba, in connection with Gobir, Kanuri and Sudan to give us a chart of the Egypt immigration for Bini. . . anything, Eurocentric, Afrocentric, Plutocentric. . .anything at all to explain and support Osahon's claim for Bini.

. . . this is where you jumped in to defend your Oba. So you have seen my tale and my myth and you have seen Bello's tale and myth and Clapperton's tale and myth. Show us now any tale and myth to support Osahon. Dont sidestep this challenge.

Katsumoto:

The account of Sultan Bello, in his Infaq al maysur, that Yoruba people were expelled from Iraq by Yarub Qhatan is a fairy tale.

I believe it was a tale started by Muslim scholars to make converting Yorubas to Islam easier by highlighting the similarities in origin of the Yoruba, Fulani, Kanem, Songhay, etc.

How did you determine this, from a book you read or from your own deduction?

You keep asking people who have expressed no belief in migration from Egypt to defend somebody else's claim of migration from Egypt.

My only interest on this thread is to learn about the Yoruba-Kanuri fiasco. I've already read your tale of Yoruba and Gobir, and now I would like some more of these bedtime stories so I can go to sleep. It's got nothing to do with attacking anyone.

Brixtonyute:

I already said they suffer from low self-esteem!!

It's like the anglo-saxons claiming that they're not germanic..

Or saying English language didn't come from latin...

Benin people are backstabbers, and fakers...

Firstly,I am yet to meet anyone prouder than a Bini.

Secondly,which Germanic people or tribe are the Anglo-Saxons SUBORDINATE to?

Thirdly,the English language is not from Latin.It is not like Italian,Spanish or Portuguese.

Fourthly,every Nigerian(including you) knows who backstabbing and faking is attributable to. No need for a hint.

Fiftly and finally,you should move out of Brixton for your intellectual,social and health sake!

Negro_Ntns:

How did you determine this, from a book you read or from your own deduction?

All of the above.

There are many pieces from the far eastern flight to Africa that don't fit together.

No one is really sure where these men fled from precisely although the most vocal voices state the flight started from Mesopotamia. Dierk Lange is one of the leading historians of this flight tale.

He alleges that
1. Nabopolassar was Alaafin Abiodun. Nabopolassar was BC while Alaafin Abiodun lived in the 18th century
2. Oranyan was Jacob; if all Yoruba agree that Oranyan was the son of Oduduwa, then how can Oranyan be Jacob
3. The Mesopotamian Sargon was known in different West African regions by different names and yet he helped establish all these origins. He was Okanbi in Yoruba, Najib in Hausa, Qanda in Songhay.

My conclusion is that Oduduwa was Ekaladerhan, the Bini prince, who fled to Ife. When Oduduwa got to Ife, he met Setilu (Agboniregun) who was the son of Ifa as Ifa was the son of Orunmila. Oral traditions point to Orunmila as the progenitor of the Yoruba. I for one will not believe that Oduduwa was the progenitor of the Yoruba because Oduduwa met Yoruba people at Ife. The rulers of Ife who were deposed by the people of Ife for Oduduwa migrated south to present day Ugbo (Ilaje).

I can't discount the point that Sargon and his army may have fled into Africa but they are likely to have tried to blend into local populations rather than built new empires. I am not one of those who buys into African dynasties springing from Far eastern civilizations. Sorry I can't shed more light now.

PhysicsQED: You keep asking people who have expressed no belief in migration from Egypt to defend somebody else's claim of migration from Egypt.

My only interest on this thread is to learn about the Yoruba-Kanuri fiasco. I've already read your tale of Yoruba and Gobir, and now I would like some more of these bedtime stories so I can go to sleep. It's got nothing to do with attacking anyone.

You came in to a topic that had a banner clearly stating "The Correct History Of Edo" to hear about Yoruba-Kanuri link. Keep deceiving yourself.

Anyway, just admit your Oba is a spinner and so is Osahon. They are claiming grounds that is too far beyond their reach. The gap filler in their account rests under the Ife soil.