david i still believe english players will benefit if they are given a bit more chance to play top flight football in their own country. sometimes it is not all about who deserves a place but they should consider having english boys playing in the premiership. at least 5 english/british players per game.

Cougar:

@ davidylan,

u don't get this, do u?
no one is saying england should not play foreigners at all. what we are saying is clubs should reduce the number of foreigners they play.
aston villa has an english spine and they are mediocre, man utd has an english spine and they are the best in the country.
rio-hargreaves-scholes-rooney makes united tick. how can u use aston villa as a classic example?

There are several things wrong with your comparison here. Rooney is an average player made to look good in a decent Man U side. Would he shine if he were playing for Everton like Mikel Arteta and Tim Cahill?
Hargreaves? How many games has he played to qualify as part of the English spine?
Scholes? Without him Man U are even doing better. Anderson is a much better replacement!
Rio - about one of the best players England has produced in a long while . . . but he costs 30m pounds . . . how much did Kolo Toure cost?

Cougar:

take terry and lampard out of chelsea team and they have no life.

Where was Terry when Chelsea thrashed Man City 6-0? If Lampard is that good why does he fail to perform outside a Chelsea shirt?

Cougar:

take carragher and gerrard out of liverpool and they have no soul.

This is even worse! Liverpool are floundering WITHOUT Torres and Alonso! Alonso is the heart of the Liverpool team and even biased Liverpudlians know this. Without Caragher liverpool will not even notice the difference.

Cougar:

the man utd team that won uefa in 1999 had 5 english players. if scholes wasn't suspended, it would have been 6 english players.

They were just lucky to have won the champions league that yr. What did the 6 english players do in an England shirt afterwards?

Cougar:

my point is, teams like arsenal can actually do better signing quality english players instead of adebayor, song and eboue.

give me a break! Care to give me just one english player that can do what Eboue does? Where are the "quality" english players? Do we go buy Darren Bent for 16m pounds?

Cougar:

peter crouch, bent, lita, agbonlahor, defoe will do a better job than adebayor.

Really? If these players are so good why is the English national team so poor? Is that Adebayor's fault too?

haba david,lol, the english team is doing below expectation but the thing is the press over bloated the ability of the english team, but they are not that good

and hey, alonso is a great guy for the reds but gerrard is good too, how many times has he rescued liverpool from disaster. c'mon dont underrate steve. lampard is also good. he has his off days but he is good too.

@ davidylan,

i am enjoying this discussion.
let me deal with the questions u raised one by one with incisive precision.
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rooney an average player? thats negative.
wayne became a star at everton after putting an end to arsene wenger's 30th unbeaten run at the age of 18.
rooney scored 4 goals at euro 2004 and was by far the best player of that tournament before he joined man utd at all. he was a better player in 2006 than thierry henry if we remove sentiments and balderdash.

i can as well remove hargreaves and replace him with carrick. anderson better than paul scholes? now you're beginning to bore me.
paul scholes was by far the best united player last season at the age of 32.
rio is 30 million pounds but man utd is not complaining, are they? kolo toure is 10k pounds but what has he achieved as a player for club/country?
i am yet to see him make pfa team or make caf list in africa.
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terry and lampard are the heart and soul of chelsea. man city's game is just one game out of many games chelsea has won with style.
any ardent chelsea fan knows the input terry/lamps put into the team is unquantifiable. no terry/lamps, no chelsea.
jose mourinho once said lamps and terry are untouchables. that shows how good, efficient and professional these players are.
same theory applies to gerrard and carragher. gerrard single-handedly won 2005 champions league for liverpool.
carragher was immense at the back blocking the efforts of world class strikers in shevchenko and crespo. gerrard makes alonso look like puppy.
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man utd was lucky to win uefa in 1999? were they also lucky to win the premiership? and lucky to win the fa cup?
omg!!!!! you are killing me here with your analysis. how can a team win the treble with sheer luck?
it was more than luck given the circumstances. no keane and scholes in the uefa final and united still won the final with style and class.
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lolololololol, one english player better than eboue? well, i don't have to look too far. aaron lennon of tottenham is technically and tactically better than emmanuel eboue of arsenal. i will rather have lennon than eboue who shouldnt even be playing in the premier league.
for your information, lennon at 18 was acquired for just 1mil pounds in 2005 while eboue was bought for 1.54 mil pounds at 21 + x years(african).
so tell me, who is more cost effective?
what makes english national team poor? they have crashed out in so many competitions via penalty shoot-outs.
their dismal performance is largely due to ill-luck rather than mediocrity.

@cougar
stop over rating these english boys, lenon vs eboue, you make me laugh. only in england can the two be compared. everbody in the world will get annoyed by such humiliation for eboue (there is no comparison for the two, lenon is no match for an injured eboue)

@david,
rooney average? i dont think so. remember his age. the guy is good, but not as good as ronaldo, or ronaldinho or messi, but he is above average.

@cougar
alonso and gerrard are complementary in the midfield. remove either of them, liverpool will be a shadow. infact,recent evidence shows alonso makes more imput, since his absence, liverpool has been crap. he returned for the arsenal game and liverpool held on till he was injured and the team completely collapsed and arsenal levelled up.

@david
gerrard's greatness in liverpool cant be underrated either. how many times has he lifted the team spirit. on a good day, he is the best player in england natnl team.

@both
england has a good chance of moving on now. lets see what happens

they practically bribed the Israel players by promising them contracts in the EPL
same country shouting about foreigners are begging them for favours

cougar

we are saying is clubs should reduce the number of foreigners they play.

so the quality of the EPL is reduced and then hyped up again by the Media; now we get you

@ Cougar, my respect for your ability to analyse football flew out of the window the minute you mentioned that Aaron Lennon was tactically better than Emmanuel Eboue!!

Aaron "i run down a blind alley and then lose the ball" Lennon better than Eboue? Na wa o!

Football will become a boring lot if this policy carries the day at the end. It will not just take away competition but it will remove players dedication. I know that if i were a footballer, i will stop working hard the moment i know that no matter how hard I work, i wouldn't make the team.

@ davidylan,

emmanuel eboue is just sloppy. he gives the ball away more than any player in the premier league.
i can count many english players better than eboue at the right back or on the right side of the midfield.
micah richards of man city is a better right back defender than emmanuel eboue, aaron lennon is better than him as a right winger.
lennon only finished 3rd behind ronaldo and cesc as the pfa young player of the year last season. he has scored goals for tottenham and he was awesome against portugal at the 2006 world cup.
eboue is yet to score a premier league goal for arsenal after 50 appearances.

Micah Richards a better right back than Eboue? Pls Cougar, enough with the incredulous comparisons!
Aaron Lennon is just all British hype, he's just all pace and nothing more. Watch football not ice hockey!!

lolololololololol.

micah richards makes eboue looks like a kindergarten defender.
eboue is nothing but a diver. no strength, no pace and no technical ability.
he looks decent because he plays for arsenal. eboue has no ball retention capacity.
i dont know any player worse than eboue in giving the ball away.
aaron lennon is no british hype. he was one of the best english players when england crashed out at the world cup.
he has got pace, technical ability,and can dribble. arsenal fans will tell u richards and lennon are better than eboue.

The same Micah Richards made to look like a championship player by Chelsea?

You wait until Aaron Lennon is relegated back to the bench by Ramos

every player has suffered being under the cosh.
its part of their experience. how do u expect them to get better if there r no dark days?
peter crouch made eboue look like a conference league player last season when he bagged a hatrick against the gunners last season.
eboue was at fault for the 3 goals gangling crouch scored on the day. he is not a premiership material.
wenger should ship him back to asec mimosa.

@Cougar
With comparison's of Aaron Lennon better than Eboue and Ronaldinho richer than Diddy you are approaching muppet status at break neck speed
Besides who was watching the premier league in 1992 across the globe

@daviddylan
Some of that guy's comparison's make me wonder if there is any sense in arguing with him

u are an arsenal fan so i can understand where u coming from.
arsenal fans are known to hype up their players even though they know most of them cant play good football.
who is eboue? a player who is yet to score a premier league goal for arsenal in 50 appearances?
ok, u will say he is a defender but i know many great english defenders better than him.
micah richards is a better defender than eboue and lennon is a better winger than eboue.
if u have any proof to counter this statement, pls bring it out and skip the muppet show.

Who is Michah Richards this is another English hype product same for Aaron Lennon please tell me how many major tournaments and what major achievements do they have that make them better than Eboue.Does Aaron Lennon and Micah Richards have a champions league goal? Why are you so particular about goal scoring you are making it sound like Lennon and Richards are world class strikers. Enough of this muppetry

this is why arsenal fans are known to be biased all over the world.
eboue plays in uefa because arsenal plays in the champions league. if lennon and richards play for any of the big teams in england, they will also play in the champions league. eboue playing in the champions league is no individual achievement, its a team effort.
what contribution did eboue make in uefa/world cup or can 2006? he was just a nonentity. i cant remember him doing anything remarkable.
lennon went to the world cup at age 19, he came on against portugal after rooney was sent off and he played so well in a 10-man team.
richards is also a strong defender who is holding his own weight. his defensive abilities is better than eboue.
eboue is just what he is---crap!

Richards and Aaron Lennon are world class? Wetin persin no go hear! Soon they will tell us Robbie Fowler was the best player to grace the Premiership . . . afterall he scored tons of goals too.

i never said lennon and richards are world class. all i said was the 2 of them are better than emma eboue.
eboue is not even premiership class let alone world class. i can count 5 english players better than eboue on any given day.
i just dont rate eboue at all. he will not even win the best player for his country let alone be nominated in africa.
take it or drop it, eboue is crap!

Eboue might be crap but he is an important part of Arsenal's renaissance this season. What has Lennon contributed to the Totenham cause?
Micah Richards is busy writing BBC articles on the back of 1 or 2 decent club performances. Did you watch the Chelsea Man City game? I couldnt believe the hype, that was pure school boy defending from Micah!

u cannot judge a player's ability from one single match.
leo messi had a horrible display last weekend when they were beaten 2-0. rijkaard had to remove him and ronaldinho out of the match because he didnt put a pass right for almost 75 mins. does that mean messi is crap?
richards had a bad day in the office against chelsea. this happens from time to time. eboue has never had a good day in the office.
i am yet to see eboue win man of the match in any game he has played. he is just crap.

eboue is crap and yet he is a regular in the team that tops the premiership? cougar i hail thee.

lenon is great and yet, he and his spurs are yet to achieve anything. . . .

very soon you tell me paul robinson is better than buffon

Aaron Lennon?
Very soon we'd be told Jermaine Jenas is better than Fabregas

@ davidylan,

i don't know where to start.
will i be watching wigan v derby game over real madrid V barcelona?
is that your comparison? do i even need to argue when your comparison of english strength to spanish is derby/wigan fame?
bayern munich players also have as many foreign players as bolton. ribery, luca toni, van bommel, lucio etc are foreigners.

first England does not have an indegenous coach for any of the top sides, They dont have a ny keeper worth mentioning in any of the top sides, Rio is way
too overhyped same with Rooney. Gerrard and hargreaves are quite good though. When Beckham was active he was more of media hype than football played.
A typical Bayern side would start Kahn, Lahm, Klose, Schweinsteiger a lot of subs who can come in but Man Utd recently cant start more than 3 Rio, Rooney and Hargreaves, Chelsea would start terry, Lampard and anybody, Lpool Caragher gerrard just that 2 Infact Spanish would be the main language in the Kops dressing room

agbonlahor is a good striker and its very glaring he is better than adebayor by all means.
lets swap their places and u will be amazed how inefficient adebayor will look in a mediocre team.
recent performances has got nothing to do with quality. every team suffers a blip. france once failed to qualify for a world cup tournament.
brazil once struggled and had to do it on their last qualifying match to qualify.
how does qualification to a tournament amounts to the litmus test of determining the strength of a team?
guys, give it a break, england has quality.

What has the English national team done worthy of note in football history apart from the controversial world cup? Brazil, germany, Italy, France, Holland, Argentina, Czech republic and even Uruguay can point to times they were good.

England is so tame and pathetic in competitions .


A digression pls; I am still trying to get over I-man's comparison of Luca toni to Torres, RVPersie and most disgustingly Rooney!!!!!. Saying Ribery has a low IQ and bayern in general has a poor team and lacks depth!! Thank God for freedom of opinion cos the above statement are treasonable offence elsewhere.

dayokanu:


A typical Bayern side would start Kahn, Lahm, Klose, Schweinsteiger a lot of subs who can come in but Man Utd recently can't start more than 3 Rio, Rooney and Hargreaves, Chelsea would start terry, Lampard and anybody, Lpool Caragher gerrard just that 2 Infact Spanish would be the main language in the Kops dressing room

Why can't this deluded German wannabe stick to what he knows.After telling me about Rooney's exploits with Utd in 2003.A typical Utd side would start those 3 plus Scholes and Neville,even Foster was scheduled to be number 1 till his injury got in the way.Currently,Brown has been starting in place of Neville.If you don't know something,why can't you keep quiet?

Barring injuries, Man Utd's first eleven will boast
of AT LEAST five Englishmen!

That to me is fair enough.

Rio, Hargo, Gary, Sholsey and Wazza.

Akin

@ dayokanu,

why cant u just face facts?
a typical man utd team will start gary neville/brown, rio, scholes, carrick, hargreaves and rooney.
chelsea will start terry, lampard, joe cole, wright-phillips and ashley cole.

@ otele,

eboue is crap and there's no achievement in topping the premiership in november.
what has eboue won as a player in his entire life? nothing! eboue is yet to win any title for a team or individually and he is 24.
lennon is 20. he has got better chances of winning titles than eboue. who knows? lennon might move to another club.

Is the number of foreign coach also affecting the national side?

note: the top teams will appoint a a foreign coach before an English coach!

how can Owen play before Defoe,Bent and heskey?

_{Gabby agbholanha(sp) is playing for Nigeria n arsenal from next year}

I get a really good laugh from some of the posts I read here, , Aaron Lennon and Micah richards are both better than Eboue, I could have sworn that Mr Cougar was talking about an Eboue who plays in N'forest or Oldham. , Come of it brother, you've gotta be kidding, Eboue was voted by UEFA as the best right back in the 2005/2006 UEFA Champs league, I don't need to bother telling u about the high profile right backs on display in the championships,
Also, Cougar talked about Lita,Bent,Agbonlahor and all the other english mis fits being better than Ade, Lol, how many goals have they got this season? Save from that daft linesman that ruled Ade's goal offside against reading, he would have had 8 goals and be joint top scorer with Benjani!!!!, will people quit criticisiong Ade?he's not the only top striker that misses chances!!! He's not the best right now, but he can be better,
One more thing Mr cougar, Toure wasn't bought for 10k pounds,Eboue was not responsible for all of Crouchy's goals against Arsenal when they met earlier this year(I doubt if he was resposible for any),
I understand all this hatred, (eboue is crap,Ade is crap,Fab overhyped,Walcott overhyped etc), Its because the Arsenal is on top, There was no emphasis on all this in the past 2 seasons, Its a price to pay for being at the top, We gunners understand!!!

Men, why will anyone say Eboue is poop? I agree he hasn't been in the best of form this season, but have y'all forgotten Eboue "pocketing" Ronaldo, and later on Nedved?

That said I'll not quite place him ahead of Lennon just yet - He hasn't yet come into his own as an attacking midfielder yet.

@I-man You are really high!!! Foster would start where? on which side of the stadium? maybe on the supporters stand.

@ Cougar, SWP would start in a full Chelsea squad? I seriously doubt that even joe cole is not assured of a place not to talk of Pius Ikedia wannabee.

Makelele, Mikel, Essien, Malouda and Ballack would now play where if SWP, Joe Cole, Lampard should play? Or UEFA would give Chelsea the opportunity to use 14 players?

If Man Utd should start those players gary neville/brown, rio, scholes, carrick, hargreaves and rooney. what would happen to van der Saar, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, nani, Anderson, Giggs, Tevez/Saha.or does EPL team use more the 11 players? Not to talk of the occasional Fletcher, O'Shea

All this sh@t is just rubbish

Basically, what these guys arguements are based upon are some Anti Arsenal charade, Aaron Lennon better than Eboue Negro please

Anyone that doesn't know/believe that the average English player is over hyped is just being delusional.

If Fabregas were English, can you imagine the accolades he would get by now, Micheal Carrick would be forced to retire. If Kolo Toure was English, would Terry or Rio be guarranteed a regular shirt.

If Hleb were English, or RVP from Milton Keynes just imagine the noise we would get from the British Press. But Nooooooooo!! because they play for Arsenal, they are no longer brilliant/good players.

Ramos is about to bench England's NO1, if he gets his keeper from Sevilla in january, and follow suit with Defoe, if Kanoute decides to come back to Spurs, so whats all the noise about

Apart from 1966, what the hell has England done to warrant anyone taking them seriously (beat Cameroon at Italia 90 lose out to pens, time and time again ).

And peeps should stop mentioning Scholesy and Carra, they are no longer going to play for the National team, so who did dear old Fergie get to replace Scholes A FREAKING FOREIGNER!! How many years does Neville still have in the tank to play for England and no one should mention Carrick (Boy should concentrate on retaining a starting place in the United team first of all).

Either way, for folks that feel any ruling will affect Arsenal, well not to worry, we have a few English lads coming up the ranks from the academy. All they need to do now, is step up their game and take the next step towards the reserves and first team (If they are good, they will play, simple as that).

Worst would be Toure and others getting dual citizenship

GOONER 89