okay i get you, so you believe the bible is not God's Word. i can even post several contradictions there that proves it is not God's Word.

1. now you say Quran is THE ONLY WORD OF GOD to mankind, no other holy books except the Quran. is that what you believe.

2.if yes to the first question, will you be open minded if i show you contradictions that are in the Quran too. i have English translation of the Holy Quran

cyrexx: okay i get you, so you believe the bible is not God's Word. i can even post several contradictions there that proves it is not God's Word.

1. now you say Quran is THE ONLY WORD OF GOD to mankind, no other holy books except the Quran. is that what you believe.

2.if yes to the first question, will you be open minded if i show you contradictions that are in the Quran too. i have English translation of the Holy Quran

I am not saying bible is not the word of God.. What i said is that.. It has been tampered..
Go ahead and show me where some word contradict each other in the quran.

no, my question is will you be open minded, to see things objectively without a firm bias that the Quran MUST BE TRUE no matter what people say. that's my question

cyrexx: no, my question is will you be open minded, to see things objectively without a firm bias that the Quran MUST BE TRUE no matter what people say. that's my question

Sure but my brother believe me.. For God sake.. Quran is the only Holy Book that no one has tamperd...
Christainity is not a religion from God... If it is then ask pastor to prove it.. With quotes from the bible and i will show u where God has order islam as the only religion he will accept in the quran.

its like you believe the Quran MUST BE TRUE NO MATTER WHAT. if that is your position. nothing i show you will make any sense except it agrees with the Quran. i used to have that belief about the Bible and I did not see all the errors until I drop my bias and assume it could be either right or wrong not that IT MUST BE TRUE NO MATTER WHAT. do you get what my point. i just want you to be objective.

cyrexx: its like you believe the Quran MUST BE TRUE NO MATTER WHAT. if that is your position. nothing i show you will make any sense except it agrees with the Quran. i used to have that belief about the Bible and I did not see all the errors until I drop my bias and assume it could be either right or wrong not that IT MUST BE TRUE NO MATTER WHAT. do you get what my point. i just want you to be objective.

okay i get you..
No problem

thank you,
number one,
pls answer me clearly and plainly, who misleads people to hell, is it Allah or Satan.

open your Quran to ch 4 vs 119 -120
119. And surely I will lead them astray, and surely I will arouse desires in them, and surely I will command them and they will cut the cattle's ears, and surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation. Whoso chooseth Satan for a patron instead of Allah is verily a loser and his loss is manifest.
120. He promiseth them and stirreth up desires in them, and Satan promiseth them only to beguile.

again look at this verse ch 16 vs 93
93. Had Allah willed He could have made you (all) one nation, but He sendeth whom He will astray and guideth whom He will, and ye will indeed be asked of what ye used to do.


N.B. I am using Marmaduke Pikthall English translation of the Noble Quran, so you can be sure I am not playing pranks

cyrexx: thank you,
number one,
pls answer me clearly and plainly, who misleads people to hell, is it Allah or Satan.

open your Quran to ch 4 vs 119 -120
119. And surely I will lead them astray, and surely I will arouse desires in them, and surely I will command them and they will cut the cattle's ears, and surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation. Whoso chooseth Satan for a patron instead of Allah is verily a loser and his loss is manifest.
120. He promiseth them and stirreth up desires in them, and Satan promiseth them only to beguile.

again look at this verse ch 16 vs 93
93. Had Allah willed He could have made you (all) one nation, but He sendeth whom He will astray and guideth whom He will, and ye will indeed be asked of what ye used to do.


N.B. I am using Marmaduke Pikthall English translation of the Noble Quran, so you can be sure I am not playing pranks

Yes it is Allah that mislead some people and show some people the right way,.. He is God and no one can question him on his action...
Note: Quran wasn't reveal like 1234..
God reveal quran occassional due to one reason or the other...
Revelation of the Quran dont just come without reason... So for God to reveal that verse you wrote.. Something happened..
There is reffrence for it which is best known to God..

oluface:

Yes it is Allah that mislead some people and show some people the right way,.. He is God and no one can question him on his action...
Note: Quran wasn't reveal like 1234..
God reveal quran occassional due to one reason or the other...
Revelation of the Quran dont just come without reason... So for God to reveal that verse you wrote.. Something happened..
There is reffrence for it which is best known to God..

thank you, i'm still trying to understand what you just explained. when I'm thru, i will pose another verse for you to explain.
peace.

cyrexx:

thank you, i'm still trying to understand what you just explained. when I'm thru, i will pose another verse for you to explain.
peace.

My brother i am all ready for you.. May Allah help me to answer your question cox he knows better..

brother oluface,
in your earlier post you said Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Job and even john were all muslim.. But they do not worship the way we muslims of nowadays do.
now my second question is: According to the Quran who is the first Muslim among all these prophets of God you mentioned here

consider these verses from the Quran
1. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).

2. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).

3. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

cyrexx: brother oluface,
in your earlier post you said Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Job and even john were all muslim.. But they do not worship the way we muslims of nowadays do.
now my second question is according to the Quran who is the first Muslim among all these prophets of God you mentioned here

consider these verses from the Quran
1. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).

2. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).

3. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

If you will believe me..
Muhammed is the first creation that God created out of his Light.. So it is possible for him to be the first to bow in islam...

And as for the Moses chapter.. According to my own knowledge... May Allah forgive me...
He is the one that first bow among his people cox you know for sure that kufr dominate the world that time...

For Abraham and his children like i told you.. They are all muslim..
What is islam..
Submission to the will of Allah

if i understand you very well, you said it is Muhammed is the first creation that God created out of his Light.. So it is possible for him to be the first to bow in islam,

so that means before Mohammed, there is no officially recognised muslim on the surface of the earth, that is what i can grasp. if untrue, kindly correct me.

now my third question,
Is a man free to decide NOT to follow Islam, is it mandatory for every body to follow Islam or not. and if people decide not to follow Islam, what is the proper reaction of a true muslim toward such a person

again look at these verses that leads to the above questions because they seem to contradict each other
1. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).

2. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).

3."But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).

4. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

cyrexx: if i understand you very well, you said it is Muhammed is the first creation that God created out of his Light.. So it is possible for him to be the first to bow in islam,

so that means before Mohammed, there is no officially recognised muslim on the surface of the earth, that is what i can grasp. if untrue, kindly correct me.

now my third question,
Is a man free to decide NOT to follow Islam, is it mandatory for every body to follow Islam or not. and if people decide not to follow Islam, what is the proper reaction of a true muslim toward such a person

again look at these verses that leads to the above questions because they seem to contradict each other
1. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).

2. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).

3."But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).

4. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

Brother Kindly ask question one after the other.. When they say let there be no compulsion in religion.. (iN ReLIGION )
what happen there is when the people of muhammed town are against his religion islam .. And are ready to fight him to the extend of killing..
Thats when God sent down those Ayah... Like i told you.. Every Ayat of Quran came down with reasons.. Dont read quran like text book... You will mislead yourself.

oluface:

When they say let there be no compulsion in religion.. (iN ReLIGION )

God sent down those Ayah... Like i told you.. [b]Every Ayat of Quran came down with reasons.. Dont read quran like text book... You will mislead yoursel[/b]f.

do you see my point, so you say that there is no contradictions in these verses, whereas some verses say there is no compulsion in religion and some verses say muslims should wage war on those who dont accept Islam. you tried to prove they do not contradict themselves by saying every ayah has its own reason that we dont understand. it shows that you are biased. i used to reason that way about the Bible, until i free my mind.

what is glaring from these verses is that Allah commands muslims to wage war on the unbelievers (not just self defence when they are attacked, but offensive warfare to force Islam on everybody) and force them to accept Islam sometimes by killing them.

drop your bias and go through these verses again one by one and you will see what I am saying

1. Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

2. Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

3. Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

4. Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

5. Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

6. Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

7. Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

8. Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

9. Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

10. Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."

11. Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

12. Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"

13. Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

14. Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."


these are just the verses that i have jotted down before, if i saw more, i will paste it.

i am not saying you should agree with me, but the reason i personally decided Islam is not the Way (and many unbiased mind will agree with me) is because i cannot imagine, the same Creator of mankind telling some people to kill others because they do not believe what God reveal to a prophet in Saudi Arabia. It only an attempt to spread a new religion that has elements of Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism (i will later show you how these religions borrow one elements or another from each other) and elevate Islam above all of them whether by persuasion or by force

respond to these observations, thank you.

cyrexx:

do you see my point, so you say that there is no contradictions in these verses, whereas some verses say there is no compulsion in religion and some verses say muslims should wage war on those who dont accept Islam. you tried to prove they do not contradict themselves by saying every ayah has its own reason that we dont understand. it shows that you are biased. i used to reason that way about the Bible, until i free my mind.

what is glaring from these verses is that Allah commands muslims to wage war on the unbelievers (not just self defence, but offensive warfare to force Islam on everybody) and force them to accept Islam sometimes by killing them.

drop your bias and go through these verses again one by one and you will see what I am saying

1. Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

2. Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

3. Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

4. Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

5. Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

6. Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

7. Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

8. Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

9. Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

10. Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."

11. Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

12. Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"

13. Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

14. Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."


these are just the verses that i have jotted down before, if i saw more, i will paste it.

i am not saying you should agree with me, but the reason i personally decided Islam is not the Way (and many unbiased mind will agree with me) is because i cannot imagine, the same Creator of mankind telling some people to kill others because they do not believe what God reveal to a prophet in Saudi Arabia. It only an attempt to spread a new religion that has elements of Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism (i will later show you how these religions borrow one elements or another from each other) and elevate Islam above all of them whether by persuasion or by force

respond to these observations, thank you.

Brother ou still haven't got my message...
Yes its is Allah that command the muslim to kill the unbelievers of that time because they want muhammud to join em in their evil religion..
This is my third time that i will repeat myself to you.
They Start the killing first before Allah order muhammed to start killing them until when they accept islam..
And its was in muhammed time that muslims are ordered to fight jihad.. Not now adays..
You can never undertand quran by reading it that way.. Open google.com and type in '' The Hadit Database'' go through it and you will see what u need to know about islam..
I have another website to reffer you to if you are willing to learn.. It is www.in2quran.com

its is not that God is wicked by Giving muhammed order to kill em...
God in his mighty and power can easily clear them of himself..
Did you not read about the people of Lut, Naoh and Pharaoh..
How Allah destroy there generation himself ...
Noah generation alone should be able to convince you that Allah has the might to destroy em..
My brother even in the book of exodus..
20: where the ten commandment is written...
The first commandment Allah gave them was that They should not worship other god except him...
Even God order the people of isreal to slain themself because of this reason.. They mould a golden calf and worship it as god...
Just imagine...
How can you create thing...to worship you... Give that thing sustance and you order that being not to call anything God except you and that thing went ahead and worship what you created that is not even up to the worshipper status..
God is a jealous God..

i fully get your explanations, i have even studied the website you refered me to, that was why it took me long to reply you.

now i hope what i want to say next will not offend your religion, if it does, pls forgive me and know that this it is not my intention to disrespect your religion

There is one thing you did not understand, you believe the Quran is true because there is a threat of judgement day which will be very terrible (eternal burning hell fire) for those who do not believe the Quran or prophet Muhammed. This is a very forceful and threatening way to make people believe in Islamic religion.

What you may not realise is that as long as people have that fear of hell fire in the afterlife, they will strongly believe the Quran and will not enetertain in their mind anything (including scientific proofs) that can lead them astray from the Quran and Islam.

that was exactly the same way the Bible forced Christians to believe the Bible, that if they do no believe its statements, they will burn forever in hell fire. remember i was a christian for many years.

the atheists and free thinkers have liberated themselves from this fear of hell and afterlife, that is why they could fearlessly challenge what is written in the holy books and objectively decide if it is true or not according to empirical and logical evidence. now while science has not provided answers to every unexplainable things we observe in our world, religion (both christianity and Islam) has not logically explain every unexplainable things we observe in our world too, they only force us to believe what has been written there and extrapolate them to say what they are really not saying at face value(both Bible and Quran).

now i will also like to refer you to a comparison of threats of hell fire from different religion and make you see why other religions strongly believe what they believe in their holy books and will refuse to entertain anything that will lead them astray. you will then undeerstand that as long as people believe there is hell fire after death, you have no option but to believe anything the holy books tell you.

visit this website and let me have your feedback http://www.neatorama.com/2007/03/23/heaven-and-hell-according-to-various-religions/

i will continue discussing with you later
thank you very much

Aah my brother .. You have gone farrrrr.. I have read some of the articles. But my brother they are all tricks of the devil to mislead man as he has promise our creator.
I think i need to explain some things to you about the fear of Hell.. And fear of Allah...
Devil was a demon that worship God before man was created..
There are two major being that will dominate hell fire (Man and Jinn popularly know as demon)...
Then in those days .. Devil knows how to worship God very well among thr demon living on earth that time..
He knows how to worship God to the extend that they know him in all the seven heavens..
So in those days.. God is use to destroying being for their sin...
That time .. Demon r full of sin..
So God decided to bring devil with him to the heaven...
God make him ruler over all Angel.. He even teach angels how to worship God...
God loves him so much..
This is how satan fell from that rank God placed him..
Remember God does his things the way it pleases him because he own everything...
God called Angels that he want to create man that will use the earth..
In quran 2:30-39

And [mention, O Muhammad], when your
Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will
make upon the earth a successive
authority." They said, "Will You place
upon it one who causes corruption
therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said,
"Indeed, I know that which you do not
know."
2:31 to top Sahih International
And He taught Adam the names - all of
them. Then He showed them to the angels
and said, "Inform Me of the names of
these, if you are truthful." 2:32 to top Sahih International
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no
knowledge except what You have taught
us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing,
the Wise."
2:33 to top Sahih International
He said, "O Adam, inform them of their
names." And when he had informed them
of their names, He said, Did I not tell you
that I know the unseen [aspects] of the
heavens and the earth? And I know what
you reveal and what you have concealed."
2:34 to top Sahih International
And [mention] when We said to the
angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they
prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused
and was arrogant and became of the
disbelievers.
2:35 to top Sahih International
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and
your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom
in [ease and] abundance from wherever
you will. But do not approach this tree,
lest you be among the wrongdoers.
2:36
But Satan caused them to slip out of it
and removed them from that [condition]
in which they had been. And We said, "Go
down, [all of you], as enemies to one
another, and you will have upon the earth
a place of settlement and provision for a time." Then Adam received from his Lord [some]
words, and He accepted his repentance.
Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of
repentance, the Merciful. We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And
when guidance comes to you from Me,
whoever follows My guidance - there will
be no fear concerning them, nor will they
grieve. 2:39 And those who disbelieve and deny Our
signs - those will be companions of the
Fire; they will abide therein eternally." Surat Al-Baqarah - (The Cow) ﺓﺭﻮﺳ ﺓﺮﻘﺒﻟﺍ


God create Adam and he command all angel and being in heaven to bow down for him as in they should accept him as Gods favourite..
All angel did as they were commanded because angel dont disobey God.. They are created from the Light of God while demon were created from the fire.. To be continue

How can you prove everything you are saying now is true without quoting from the Quran or any other holy book.

just beacause God order all being in heaven to prostrate for Adam the devil refuse and God rejected him
but he asked God something before he left heaven then..
He asked God to grant him respite till the day of ressurection which God gave him.. One thing i want you to know about God is that if he decree something.. That thing must come to pass... No one can stop him...
Now what brought Hell fire and paradise is that...
Devils told God that God rejected him because of Adam and he promise to mislead him and all adam generation from being ungreatful to God..
Then God told him that if that is the case.. God said it is only those that follow ur foot step you will have authority over... But those that believe in him and his messanger shall overcome you... Then God promise to give Hell its fill and paradise its fill too...
Now how one cam escape hell is only by the mercy of God...
But first of All.. I want you to know tht everyone that worship God will enter paradise though some may taste hell due to one of their sin but they will still enter paradise...
I can bet it with you that christains that believes in trinity and son of God will find it difficult to enter paradise because they are just like unbelievers that call God through an object God created

cyrexx: How can you prove everything you are saying now is true without quoting from the Quran or any other holy book.

.
Read quran 2:30-45

Remember i told you that you can get answer to whatever you are looking for inside 2 book...
1. Quran.
2. The Hadit.(Saying of the Holy prophet muhammed). Any other thing except from that is null...
Need any other information about islamic teach..
Look for Hadith Database(there u will see what you need.) you cant get answer to all your question in quran but you will get it in the hadith database.. Even how to put on cloth is written there..

i have thoroughly read the passage

Quran 2:30-45
30. And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: wilt Thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.
31. And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform me of the names of these, if ye are truthful.
32. They said: Be glorified! We have no knowledge saving that which Thou hast taught us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower, the Wise.
33. He said: O Adam! Inform them of their names, and when he had informed them of their names, He said: Did I not tell you that I know the secret of the heavens and the earth? And I know that which ye disclose and which ye hide.
34. And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis He
demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.
35. And We said: O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrongdoers.
36. But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a tune.
37. Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the Relenting the Merciful.
38. We said: Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso
followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
39. But they who disbelieve, and deny our revelations, such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.
40. O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you, and fulfil your (part of the) covenant, I shall fulfil My (part of the) covenant and fear Me.
41. And believe in that which I reveal, confirming that which ye possess already (of the Scripture), and be not first to disbelieve therein, and part not with My revelations for a trifling price, and keep your duty unto Me.
42. Confound not truth with falsehood, nor knowingly conceal the truth.
43. Establish worship, pay the poor-due, and bow your heads with those who bow (in worship).
44. Enjoin ye righteousness upon mankind while ye yourselves forget (to practise it)? And ye are readers of the
Scripture! Have ye then no sense?
45. Seek help in patience and prayer; and truly it is hard save for the humble-minded,


but you have not answered my question

Why do you think I should believe this is true other than the threat of hell fire in the judgement day if i refuse to obey the Quran. apart from the threat of hell fire in the afterlife, there is no rational reason for me to believe this is true.

do you know why i believe there is no life after death.
everything that has a beginning MUST DEFINITELY have an end.
since our life and consciousness has a beginning, it must of necessity have an end
millions before us have died and none has come back to say they are still alive
religion capitalise on the unknown afterlife to instill fear in us from childhood
i'm sure you too will not believe these statement, if not because of the fear of judgement day.
i dont have that fear anymore, that is why i believe those statements are not true

PEACE BE UPON YOU AND ME

Life after death is real..
God gave example of it in the quran through abraham...
People argue about it that there is not life after death .. Then God order abraham to get a bird... Cut the bird into 3 places and he should place the birds on 3 diffrient rock... After doing that God said he should go to a very far distance and call those bird that they will answer him... Number 1.

Number 2.
Some people in those days killed a man and people were arguing about who killed the man..
Then God ordered them to kill a animal after killling the animal... They should cut pieces out of the animal body ... After cuttong it , they should hit the man with them animal body ...
After doing tht.. The man woke up and told them who killed him and then went back as a dead man...

Still have another proof.

Open this link for more information about life after death.
Grave is very powerful especially for those that urinate and doesnt clean with water

www.islam-guide.com/life-after-death-by-wamy.htm

Once again, PEACE BE UPON YOU AND ME
this might be my last post on this thread and it shall summarize my final submission on this issue



both of us we can NEVER reach an agreement on these issues. Why?
You believe Quran is true because you dont want to face hell fire on the judgement day
But i believe the Quran is not true because I am not afraid of judgement day threats, so i can objectively see why some claims contained therein are not reasonable (pls dont be offended, I am truthfully telling you my mind)

I am not trying to convince you to leave Islam, I am just trying to let you see why atheists and free thinkers do not believe what is stated in the Quran and the Bible. We believe in evidence without any bias, whatsoever. Like i said before, If i find any convincing unbiased evidence for God's existence, I will gladly believe Him, but if i dont I will not. And I am not basing my beliefs on the threats of any religious holy books whatsoever

I sincerely wish you all the best in the faithful following of your religion. May you find everything you desire in this life (and if it exists, in the life to come). Amen

Good day.

I did not accept islam because of the fear of hell.. I accepted islam because that is the reason why God created man and jinn.. He created us to worship him and not because of hell or paradise

oluface: Open this link for more information about life after death.
Grave is very powerful especially for those that urinate and doesnt clean with water

www.islam-guide.com/life-after-death-by-wamy.htm

The article wasn't so helpful. It begged the question that there is God, and also did the same for the authencity of the Quran. However, no prophet jad experienced the afterlife, yet he is able to make PARTICULAR claims.

Divine revelations are overtly subjective, fraught with controversy, source doubtful and depends on the mental state of whoever is having it. Man can easily lie about having revelations. History is filled so many man gods and messengers from Gods.

Since revelations are directed at the person receiving it without witnesses, its best to say such revelation/communication is ONLY for the receiver and no one else.