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Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? - Religion - Nairaland

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Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by auwal87(m): 3:42pm On Nov 17, 2007
If Yes!, then Christian God have no mercy on Innocent Human Beings, since Jesus does not exist at the time of Abraham, Moses, Noah, etc,
If No!, then you did not need the blood of Jesus to enter Paradise (as Christians claim)

In a more clear way, Christians claim that every human being needs Jesus Christ in order to enter Paradise, so, the question is; What of those that exist before Jesus Christ was born by Mary? Since they do not know Jesus at that time, and as well they do not know any Trinity or something like that, are they going to the Hell Fire? Or did Abraham, Moses, Noah, Joseph, etc preach Trinity at their time, or did they Preach that Son of God (as Christians claim) will come to Earth, so worship him,
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by Nobody: 6:40pm On Nov 17, 2007
auwal87:

If Yes!, then Christian God have no mercy on Innocent Human Beings, since Jesus does not exist at the time of Abraham, Moses, Noah, etc,

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

auwal87:

If No!, then you did not need the blood of Jesus to enter Paradise (as Christians claim)

They had the blood of bulls and goats every year. After Christ came, He made the sacrifice of the shedding of His blood ONCE FOR ALL.
Yes they didnt have the blood of Jesus, but they had the blood of animals as provided under the dispensation of the law.

I get frustrated by muslims who jump around trying to explain the bible when they dont even understand the quran. Go read and understand surah 17:91 first before bothering with whether the biblical prophets are in paradise or not.
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by olabowale(m): 7:39pm On Nov 17, 2007
@Davidylan and all: And the lamb, did not go willingly to the slaughter! Contrary to what is being projected. He cried out, 'My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me!' Then, he gave up the ghost! If this is a willing and wholesale blanket of forgiveness, then its very strange, indeed. God could have easily forgiven everyone, without this grusome event!
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by Nobody: 8:24pm On Nov 17, 2007
olabowale:

@Davidylan and all: And the lamb, did not go willingly to the slaughter! Contrary to what is being projected. He cried out, 'My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me!' Then, he gave up the ghost! If this is a willing and wholesale blanket of forgiveness, then its very strange, indeed. God could have easily forgiven everyone, without this grusome event!

alhaji, you're just stumbling from place to place leaving nothing but confusion and shame in your wake. You leave questions unanswered on other threads only to pop up somewhere else pretending to be seeking the truth.
Isnt it funny that someone you allege did not go willingly to the slaughter waited until He was hanging on the cross to cry out about being forsaken? Why didnt Christ and His disciples fight back or at least put up a better legal defence BEFORE the crucifiction if He was unwilling to die on the cross?

Christ knew He was going to be betrayed by Judas Iscariot during the last supper, why didnt He escape before then if indeed He was not willing to die on the cross?

Alhaji i know the death and resurrection is a hurdle islam can never cross . . .
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by Kobojunkie: 8:57pm On Nov 17, 2007
auwal87:

If Yes!, then Christian God have no mercy on Innocent Human Beings, since Jesus does not exist at the time of Abraham, Moses, Noah, etc,
If No!, then you did not need the blood of Jesus to enter Paradise (as Christians claim)


Why not ask GOD HIMSELF who is The ONLY BEING who happens to have Being there from the begining to this day?? @Auwal87. I mean if your post there is sincere, why ask mere beings who themselves have only come to believe what they do today from personal experience with their God?? Why do you demand they require them to be the one's to give you answers in this case?? @Auwal87, Is there a point to this
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by auwal87(m): 9:57am On Nov 18, 2007
@Kobojunkie

If God will answer my question, surely I will do ask him, but I dunno, maybe if you are more closer to God than I, then PLEASE, Ask Him, if He Answers you then let me know on Nairaland, PLEASE!

My Question Still remains unanswered, or are the Christians afraid of the question, or maybe the Pastors have never attemp to cite it in their church,

Are all those that died before Jesus going to Hell Fire?
If Yes!, then Christian God have no mercy on Innocent Human Beings, since Jesus does not exist at the time of Abraham, Moses, Noah, etc,
If No!, then you did not need the blood of Jesus to enter Paradise (as Christians claim)
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by pilgrim1(f): 11:18am On Nov 18, 2007
@auwal87,

auwal87:

If Yes!, then Christian God have no mercy on Innocent Human Beings, since Jesus does not exist at the time of Abraham, Moses, Noah, etc,

This is how you dubious Muslims confirm that Muhammad is a FALSE prophet! grin When Muhammad came proclaiming himself to be the prophet who was closer to Jesus than any other prophet, was he preaching 'another God' than the Biblical God?

Second, how has the Muslim 'Allah' shown mercy to the millions Muhammad and his brigand slaughtered and still do even today? Where is the "mercy" in Muhammad's proclamation that he was made victorious with TERROR?

When you Muslims are jobless, you open a thread, not to enquire sincerely, but to start a controversy you can't finish.

auwal87:

If No!, then you did not need the blood of Jesus to enter Paradise (as Christians claim)

We hear. grin It is just that you are exhibiting your status as an errand boy for Muhammad who denied the Cross and the precious blood of Jesus Christ that would have saved him. Why then do you suppose Muhammad never understood the cleansing power of the blood of Christ, and instead he was a man full of sin so much so that he himself declared that he had to turn in repentance to 'Allah' a hundred times a day?

auwal87:

In a more clear way, Christians claim that every human being needs Jesus Christ in order to enter Paradise, so, the question is; What of those that exist before Jesus Christ was born by Mary? Since they do not know Jesus at that time, and as well they do not know any Trinity or something like that, are they going to the Hell Fire?

Those who lived before the Incarnation of Jesus will be judged by the same Jesus Christ - for He has always testified to man through his conscience. Here are a few verses to clear the air for you:

Romans 2:12-16
[list]"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one anotherwink In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."[/list]

As to the blood of Christ being efficacious to those who lived before He was born, here is another passage of Scripture for you:

Romans 3:23-26
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."

The above demonstrate how the blood of Christ avails for even those who had lived according to God's purpose before Jesus was born. Even though they did not hear of the Name of Jesus Christ, God had determined beforehand to set Christ as the propitiation for the world (cf. 1 John 2:2).

auwal87:

Or did Abraham, Moses, Noah, Joseph, etc preach Trinity at their time, or did they Preach that Son of God (as Christians claim) will come to Earth, so worship him,

Are you now so confused that you don't know what to present? Was this thread opened for a discussion about the "Trinity" or about the salvation of those who died before Jesus was born? You're so callous in your Islamic drivel to foment a controversy that only demonstrates you'e not seeking answers - rather, you're typically seeking to establish the Muslim hypocrisy that is now obvious to all.

To be sure, even before Jesus was born, the prophets of old understood indeed that the Messiah was the Son of God. I'll offer you two verses for now:

Psalm 2:7, 11-12
"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. . . Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." [note: the last part highlighted proclaims that those who put their trust in the Son are blessed - cf. John 14:1].

Proverbs 30:4
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?"

You Muslims are a sorry bunch. Rather than settle down and carefully read the Bible, you enslave yourselves on Muhammad's denials of Biblical truths and then expose your hypocrisies and fraud. grin
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by olabowale(m): 1:36pm On Nov 18, 2007
@Pilgrim.1: Which version, revision, editions, etc in all of the centuaries and up to the several hundreds that we have today, should I read? Will you show me the real Bible? Since there is none, I guess your statement is incorrect!
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by Kobojunkie: 3:09pm On Nov 18, 2007
auwal87:

@Kobojunkie

If God will answer my question, surely I will do ask him, but I don't know, maybe if you are more closer to God than I, then PLEASE, Ask Him, if He Answers you then let me know on Nairaland, PLEASE!

My Question Still remains unanswered, or are the Christians afraid of the question, or maybe the Pastors have never attemp to cite it in their church,

Are all those that died before Jesus going to Hell Fire?
If Yes!, then Christian God have no mercy on Innocent Human Beings, since Jesus does not exist at the time of Abraham, Moses, Noah, etc,
If No!, then you did not need the blood of Jesus to enter Paradise (as Christians claim)

Ok, well, I do not think you have actually researched the question yourself as it seems you already have answers you want and no other answer can fly. No where in the Bible are the Christians told that they should entertain such foolish arguments. My advise to you is you ask God himself and if He does not answer you, it maybe him telling you that you need to do something else with your time but if you ever REALLY want to learn more, without wasting people's times in forums, I say you pick up a bible to read cause the answer is in there. I would have posted the verse for you BUT I am afraid you are just here to ridicule yourself and I choose not to be party to such. Have a nice life !!! grin
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by pilgrim1(f): 6:42pm On Nov 18, 2007
olabowale:

@Pilgrim.1: Which version, revision, editions, etc in all of the centuaries and up to the several hundreds that we have today, should I read? Will you show me the real Bible? Since there is none, I guess your statement is incorrect!

Dear alhaji olabowale,

Please pick any version or translation of the Bible that best suits you and see if they do not contain the verses I quoted there.

You never cease to amaze me with your hypocrisy. If my statements were incorrect because I was quoting from a version or translation that did not have those verses, perhaps you could have a point. But you sit down and lazily assume that they are not correct because you're scared to your gutters to discover the simple truth.

Again, what version of the Torah and Injil did Muhammad pretend were "revealed" by his 'Allah'? Did those other Scriptures say any different from those that are in the Bible today? Where did Muhammad get his Arabian tales from that not a single Muslim has been able to coherently explicate for us to see? Rather than open your eyes and read issues, you sit back and assume that Muhammad's denials would cover up the huge fallacies pretended in the Qur'an.

The chap auwal87 asked some questions he supposed were the death knell of his worries - and I simply offered him answers from the Bible. If you're not satisfied, please produce the Biblical documents that Muhammad was pretending 'Allah' revealed, and let's see if they are different in the verses posted in my rejoinders.
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by auwal87(m): 1:17pm On Nov 20, 2007
@fake pilgrim

Psalm 2:7, 11-12, and Proverbs 30:4, does not preach anything about Christianity there, people like you are using some sensual verses/phrases in the bible to refer to an unrelevant topic on discussion, Post it yourself, wat does the previous verse contain and wat d next verse also contain,
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by Kobojunkie: 1:23pm On Nov 20, 2007
Why continue to FEED people who obviously do not care for what you have to say?? @Pilgrim1. What do you gain from telling those who could not care if you say A or B all this that you tell them?? There are verses in the same Bible that says you should avoid VAIN BABBLING and STUPID arguing @Pilgrim1 . Please do the wise thing!!!
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by combatant: 8:23pm On Nov 20, 2007
@fake pilgrim grin



Psalm 2:7, 11-12
"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. . . Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." [note: the last part highlighted proclaims that those who put their trust in the Son are blessed - cf. John 14:1].

Proverbs 30:4
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?"

Can you show evidence that the above verses referred to Jesus? I can now see that you have decided to pick out of context and I will help you out of your stupidit.

So over to you, is there any proof that the verses referred to Jesus?

Have a lovely day
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by shawn123: 9:03am On Nov 23, 2007
what u see here my friends is called beautull evasion of question. You have all evaded the questions, answer the damn question,
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by shawn123: 9:08am On Nov 23, 2007
davidylan:

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

They had the blood of bulls and goats every year. After Christ came, He made the sacrifice of the shedding of His blood ONCE FOR ALL.
Yes they didnt have the blood of Jesus, but they had the blood of animals as provided under the dispensation of the law.

I get frustrated by muslims who jump around trying to explain the bible when they don't even understand the quran. Go read and understand surah 17:91 first before bothering with whether the biblical prophets are in paradise or not.


before Abraham was i am. abeg where was he? you guys have beautifully evaded the question. Just answer the damn question,
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by dafidixone(m): 12:34pm On Nov 23, 2007
@Davidylan and all: And the lamb, did not go willingly to the slaughter! Contrary to what is being projected. He cried out, 'My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me!' Then, he gave up the ghost! If this is a willing and wholesale blanket of forgiveness, then its very strange, indeed. God could have easily forgiven everyone, without this grusome event!

Don't mind thid Adebowale, little did he know that Jesus christ is the Prince of Peace. Unlike Mohamadu the Worrior grin

1 Like

Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by olabowale(m): 1:44pm On Nov 23, 2007
@Dafidixone: To help you out of your Ostrich head in the sand syndrome: Before Abraham was born, by Allah, Who is Holder of my soul, I too, Olabowale was! My soul and all the souls of the children of Adam were already created, removed from the body of Adam (as).

Jesus, son of Mary, came very late, compared to when Abraham came. However, neither Jesus nor any man was before Adam. Read from Chapter 7 of the Qur'an (Suratul Ar'af), verse 172, with related verses from other chapters, on the subject of creation of the children of Adam. Our souls, Jesus and every person that will ever be created, were removed from the back of Adam, at the same time! Thats power, in itself. My beloved christain clergies, davidylan, being the chairman, your answers can not address this complex question. You do not have an answer of any tangible quality in the Bible about this subject. You are only providing us ambiguity at best.

Qur'an, in the explanation below, provides the answer to the question, the poster asked; Those who lived before Jesus, if they followed their respective prophet from God, in belief and worship and do as much good as possible, without associating partner(s) with God, yes, they will be admitted to Paradise. If they associated anything with God, being from the other camp, they will definately go to Hellfire! Jesus did not have any role to play here. His role is completely restricted to his time and the people he was charged which is to lead them the right path. His responsibility ended when Muhammad came on the stage of prophethood. Muhammad is the prophet of this current time, which starting from the time he received the first revelation, all the way to the end of time!

The Covenant taken from the Descendants of Adam.

Allah stated that He brought the descendants of Adam out of their fathers' loins, and they testified against themselves that Allah is their Lord and King and that there is no deity worthy of worship except Him. Allah created them on this Fitrah, or way, just as He said,

(So set you (O Muhammad) your face truly towards the religion, Hanifan. Allah's Fitrah with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalqillah.) [30:30] And it is recorded in the Two Sahihs from Abu Hurayrah who said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(Every child is born upon the Fitrah, it is only his parents who turn him into a Jew, a Christian or a Zoroastrian. Just as animals are born having full bodies, do you see any of them having a cutoff nose (when they are born)) . Muslim recorded that `Iyad bin `Himar said that the Messenger of Allah said
(Allah said, `I created My servants Hunafa' (monotheists), but the devils came to them and deviated them from their religion, prohibiting what I allowed.) There are Hadiths that mention that Allah took Adam's offspring from his loins and divided them into those on the right and those on the left. Imam Ahmad recorded that Anas bin Malik said that the Prophet said
(It will be said to a man from the people of the Fire on the Day of Resurrection, `If you owned all that is on the earth, would you pay it as ransom' He will reply, `Yes.' Allah will say, `I ordered you with what is less than that, when you were still in Adam's loins, that is, associate none with Me (in worship). You insisted that you associate with Me (in worship).') This was recorded in the Two Sahihs Commenting on this Ayah (7:172), At-Tirmidhi recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(When Allah created Adam, He wiped Adam's back and every person that He will create from him until the Day of Resurrection fell out from his back. Allah placed a glimmering light between the eyes of each one of them. Allah showed them to Adam and Adam asked, `O Lord! Who are they' Allah said, `These are your offspring.' Adam saw a man from among them whose light he liked. He asked, `O Lord! Who is this man' Allah said, `This is a man from the latter generations of your offspring. His name is Dawud.' Adam said, `O Lord! How many years would he live' Allah said, `Sixty years.' Adam said, `O Lord! I have forfeited forty years from my life for him.' When Adam's life came to an end, the angel of death came to him (to take his soul). Adam said, `I still have forty years from my life term, don't I' He said, `Have you not given it to your son Dawud' So Adam denied that and his offspring followed suit (denying Allah's covenant), Adam forgot and his offspring forgot, Adam made a mistake and his offspring made mistakes.) At-Tirmidhi said, "This Hadith is Hasan Sahih, and it was reported from various chains of narration through Abu Hurayrah from the Prophet ''. Al-Hakim also recorded it in his Mustadrak, and said; "Sahih according to the criteria of Muslim, and they did not record it.'' These and similar Hadiths testify that Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored, brought forth Adam's offspring from his loins and separated between the inhabitants of Paradise and those of the Fire. Allah then said,



(and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord'' They said: "Yes!'') Therefore, Allah made them testify with themselves by circumstance and words. Testimony is sometimes given in words, such as,

(They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves.'') [6:130] At other times, testimony is given by the people themselves, such as Allah's statement,

(It is not for the Mushrikin, (polytheists) to maintain the mosques of Allah, while they testify against their own selves of disbelief.) [9:17] This Ayah means that their disbelief testifies against them, not that they actually testify against themselves here. Another Ayah of this type is Allah's statement,



(And to that he bears witness (by his deeds). ) [100:7] The same is the case with asking, sometimes takes the form of words and sometimes a situation or circumstance. For instance, Allah said,

(And He gave you of all that you asked for.) [14:34] Allah said here,

(lest you should say), on the Day of Resurrection

(we were of this) of Tawhid



(unaware. Or lest you should say: "It was only our fathers aforetime who took others as partners in worship along with Allah,'') [7:172-173]

(175. And recite to them the story of him to whom We gave Our Ayat, but he threw them away; so Shaytan followed him up, and he became of those who went astray.) (176. And had We willed, We would surely have elevated him therewith, but he clung to the earth and followed his own vain desires. So his parable is the parable of a dog: if you drive him away, he pants, or if you leave him alone, he (still) pants. Such is the parable of the people who reject Our Ayat. So relate the stories, perhaps they may reflect.) (177. Evil is the parable of the people who rejected Our Ayat, and used to wrong themselves.)

(By the way my name is Olabowale, and not Adebowale!)
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by dafidixone(m): 5:20pm On Nov 23, 2007
@Dafidixone: To help you out of your Ostrich head in the sand syndrome: Before Abraham was born, by Allah, Who is Holder of my soul, I too, Olabowale was! My soul and all the souls of the children of Adam were already created, removed from the body of Adam (as).

Jesus, son of Mary, came very late, compared to when Abraham came. However, neither Jesus nor any man was before Adam. Read from Chapter 7 of the Qur'an (Suratul Ar'af), verse 172, with related verses from other chapters, on the subject of creation of the children of Adam. Our souls, Jesus and every person that will ever be created, were removed from the back of Adam, at the same time! Thats power, in itself. My beloved christain clergies, davidylan, being the chairman, your answers can not address this complex question. You do not have an answer of any tangible quality in the Bible about this subject. You are only providing us ambiguity at best.

Qur'an, in the explanation below, provides the answer to the question, the poster asked; Those who lived before Jesus, if they followed their respective prophet from God, in belief and worship and do as much good as possible, without associating partner(s) with God, yes, they will be admitted to Paradise. If they associated anything with God, being from the other camp, they will definately go to Hellfire! Jesus did not have any role to play here. His role is completely restricted to his time and the people he was charged which is to lead them the right path. His responsibility ended when Muhammad came on the stage of prophethood. Muhammad is the prophet of this current time, which starting from the time he received the first revelation, all the way to the end of time!

The Covenant taken from the Descendants of Adam.

Allah stated that He brought the descendants of Adam out of their fathers' loins, and they testified against themselves that Allah is their Lord and King and that there is no deity worthy of worship except Him. Allah created them on this Fitrah, or way, just as He said,

(So set you (O Muhammad) your face truly towards the religion, Hanifan. Allah's Fitrah with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalqillah.) [30:30] And it is recorded in the Two Sahihs from Abu Hurayrah who said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(Every child is born upon the Fitrah, it is only his parents who turn him into a Jew, a Christian or a Zoroastrian. Just as animals are born having full bodies, do you see any of them having a cutoff nose (when they are born)) . Muslim recorded that `Iyad bin `Himar said that the Messenger of Allah said
(Allah said, `I created My servants Hunafa' (monotheists), but the devils came to them and deviated them from their religion, prohibiting what I allowed.) There are Hadiths that mention that Allah took Adam's offspring from his loins and divided them into those on the right and those on the left. Imam Ahmad recorded that Anas bin Malik said that the Prophet said
(It will be said to a man from the people of the Fire on the Day of Resurrection, `If you owned all that is on the earth, would you pay it as ransom' He will reply, `Yes.' Allah will say, `I ordered you with what is less than that, when you were still in Adam's loins, that is, associate none with Me (in worship). You insisted that you associate with Me (in worship).') This was recorded in the Two Sahihs Commenting on this Ayah (7:172), At-Tirmidhi recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(When Allah created Adam, He wiped Adam's back and every person that He will create from him until the Day of Resurrection fell out from his back. Allah placed a glimmering light between the eyes of each one of them. Allah showed them to Adam and Adam asked, `O Lord! Who are they' Allah said, `These are your offspring.' Adam saw a man from among them whose light he liked. He asked, `O Lord! Who is this man' Allah said, `This is a man from the latter generations of your offspring. His name is Dawud.' Adam said, `O Lord! How many years would he live' Allah said, `Sixty years.' Adam said, `O Lord! I have forfeited forty years from my life for him.' When Adam's life came to an end, the angel of death came to him (to take his soul). Adam said, `I still have forty years from my life term, don't I' He said, `Have you not given it to your son Dawud' So Adam denied that and his offspring followed suit (denying Allah's covenant), Adam forgot and his offspring forgot, Adam made a mistake and his offspring made mistakes.) At-Tirmidhi said, "This Hadith is Hasan Sahih, and it was reported from various chains of narration through Abu Hurayrah from the Prophet ''. Al-Hakim also recorded it in his Mustadrak, and said; "Sahih according to the criteria of Muslim, and they did not record it.'' These and similar Hadiths testify that Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored, brought forth Adam's offspring from his loins and separated between the inhabitants of Paradise and those of the Fire. Allah then said,



(and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord'' They said: "Yes!'') Therefore, Allah made them testify with themselves by circumstance and words. Testimony is sometimes given in words, such as,

(They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves.'') [6:130] At other times, testimony is given by the people themselves, such as Allah's statement,

(It is not for the Mushrikin, (polytheists) to maintain the mosques of Allah, while they testify against their own selves of disbelief.) [9:17] This Ayah means that their disbelief testifies against them, not that they actually testify against themselves here. Another Ayah of this type is Allah's statement,



(And to that he bears witness (by his deeds). ) [100:7] The same is the case with asking, sometimes takes the form of words and sometimes a situation or circumstance. For instance, Allah said,

(And He gave you of all that you asked for.) [14:34] Allah said here,

(lest you should say), on the Day of Resurrection

(we were of this) of Tawhid



(unaware. Or lest you should say: "It was only our fathers aforetime who took others as partners in worship along with Allah,'') [7:172-173]

(175. And recite to them the story of him to whom We gave Our Ayat, but he threw them away; so Shaytan followed him up, and he became of those who went astray.) (176. And had We willed, We would surely have elevated him therewith, but he clung to the earth and followed his own vain desires. So his parable is the parable of a dog: if you drive him away, he pants, or if you leave him alone, he (still) pants. Such is the parable of the people who reject Our Ayat. So relate the stories, perhaps they may reflect.) (177. Evil is the parable of the people who rejected Our Ayat, and used to wrong themselves.)

(By the way my name is Olabowale, and not Adebowale!)

I wonder where you get your own quran from. Better try to know more about your religion. Instead of copying from one site and paste on nairaland. cheesy

1 Like

Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by combatant: 7:18pm On Nov 23, 2007
@dafidizone


I wonder where you get your own quran from. Better try to know more about your religion. Instead of copying from one site and paste on nairaland.


Do I take that as the rebuttal to his post??

Still have a lovely day but die not in a state of muslim.
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by Dios(f): 9:16pm On Nov 23, 2007
Dude asked a simple question, instead of getting an answer, HE GOT MOHAMMED VS JESUS PART 547632786448O9788TH56!!!!!! grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

Like I always say, BLACK MUSLIMS AND BLACK CHRISTIANS ARE A DELUSIONAL BUNCH grin grin
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by combatant: 12:37pm On Nov 24, 2007
@Dios


Dude asked a simple question, instead of getting an answer, HE GOT MOHAMMED VS JESUS PART 547632786448O9788TH56!!!!!!



So you are aware of his (focused) dishonesty. A simple question was asked but read the apologist's response.

Dios, are you in anyway related to idinrete? He is very humorous just like you grin


Like I always say, BLACK MUSLIMS AND BLACK CHRISTIANS ARE A DELUSIONAL BUNCH


Can you proof it mister?

@poster, this topic still holds. Carry on.
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by dafidixone(m): 12:49pm On Nov 24, 2007
Dude asked a simple question, instead of getting an answer, HE GOT MOHAMMED VS JESUS PART 547632786448O9788TH56!!!!!!

Like I always say, BLACK MUSLIMS AND BLACK CHRISTIANS ARE A DELUSIONAL BUNCH

Logged


There are Prophet then. As many as refused to accept the word of God, they have their part in the
lake of fire. You may be thinking of the likes of David and their wives e.t.c. They might not go to hell because at that time they aspired to show themselves approved.

The Bible made us to know that Jeusu was the word that was in the begining. So the word is already with them. The time of Jesus is known as the time of grace Jesus came in appearance of Man to provide detail explanation of what God want from man.

SO as many as beleive this word He gave the power to become the son of God.

Finally, I will suggest you leave the dead to bury themselves. Fight for oyurselve, your Soul must not go to hell. If you have accept this fact, I congratulate you. Stay in Him(Jesus). But if you have not Invite him at this momment into your life.

God bless you as you take this decision. smiley
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by babs787(m): 5:37pm On Nov 25, 2007
@dafidixone


Hope you know that you have not attempted the question at hand.


You may be thinking of the likes of David and their wives e.t.c. They might not go to hell because at that time they aspired to show themselves approved.


But your folks have been giving bible passages in which the fornicator, adulterer, murderer, liar would be doomed for hell. Go through your bible and read about what David did and come back to tell me his fate.

Brother, please try to grab the Quran and read about prophets, you would be surprised at the position they occupy in Islam unlike the bible where prophets are accused of adultery, fornication, sleeping with harlot, committing incest etc.

Brother accept Islam before its tool late.
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by pilgrim1(f): 2:31am On Nov 26, 2007
@shawn123,

shawn123:

what u see here my friends is called beautull evasion of question. You have all evaded the questions, answer the damn question,

What you see here is another blabbing machine on the loose! grin "Answer the question" is always their lullaby, especially when the question has been answered and you yourselves are the masters of prevarication!
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by pilgrim1(f): 2:39am On Nov 26, 2007
@babs787,

babs787:

Hope you know that you have not attempted the question at hand.

How many have you "attempted"? After scooting off from your famed "lost" Torah and Injil, you never seize to amaze your folks on the Forum.

babs787:

But your folks have been giving bible passages in which the fornicator, adulterer, murderer, liar would be doomed for hell. Go through your bible and read about what David did and come back to tell me his fate.

You who advise others to read the Bible obviously have not read it. What is the fate of David after all the things you mentioned there?

babs787:

Brother, please try to grab the Quran and read about prophets, you would be surprised at the position they occupy in Islam unlike the bible where prophets are accused of adultery, fornication, sleeping with harlot, committing incest etc.

We are really "surprised", no be small. As if we no longer know about Muhammad's escapades with the women whose husbands he had murdered!

babs787:

Brother accept Islam before its tool late.

Lol. . . your appeal will only work when he is ready to be fooled.
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by pilgrim1(f): 2:43am On Nov 26, 2007
@auwal87,

auwal87:

@fake pilgrim

Psalm 2:7, 11-12, and Proverbs 30:4, does not preach anything about Christianity there

Neither do those verses preach anything about Islam there or in the entire Bible! Christianity is predicated on the doctrine of Jesus Christ, the Son of God:

John 3:36
'He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:
and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life;
but the wrath of God abideth on him.'

Until you know Jesus Christ as the Son of God, you have no 'everlasting life' in you (as Jesus said in the verse above). The natural consequence of not having that life is succinctly given in 1 John 3:15 - "and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." Does it then surprise you that after having rejected the testimony that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Muhammad rejoiced to declare in [Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Bk. 52, Num. 220]: "I have been made victorious with TERROR" and went about insanely murdering people for "Allah's" sake?

auwal87:

people like you are using some sensual verses/phrases in the bible to refer to an unrelevant topic on discussion

Aside the fact that your mental capabilities are that low, what "sensual verses" did I quote in my rejoinders? How did you read anything "sensual" in the verses cited in my rejoinders? grin

Although Muslims have often asserted falsely that Muhammad was "illiterate", bros auwal87, abeg leave the illiteracy in Islam and educate yourself a bit. It is not a crime to leave the illiteracy of Muhammad and develop yourself before you post your gutter in a public Forum.

auwal87:

Post it yourself, what does the previous verse contain and what d next verse also contain

First, the fraud in Islam has been exposed and bleached several times and you guys are only crying your bruhaha because Muhammad's duplicity has been arrested in your Islamic attempts to smuggle him into the Bible! grin

Second, the verses referenced in my repostes are Biblical prophecies - which neither Muhammad's 'Allah' nor even the Quraish prophet himself have been able to explicate, though those verses have remained there for all to see.

Third, it would have been the easiest thing for you to post the ("sensual verses" and discuss them where you disagreed, instead of exhibiting your utility-grade scholarship at issues you don't understand. And just incase you missed them initially, let me post the verses once again:

Psalm 2:7, 11-12
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me,
Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that
put their trust in HIM.


Proverbs 30:4
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath
gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a
garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth?
what is his name, and what is his son's name,
if thou canst tell?"

Now tell me, auwal87, what do you not understand in the simple statements quoted above from the Bible? Could you please discuss them and offer alternative interpretations where you have failed to see what they point out as quoted there?


Cheers.
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by pilgrim1(f): 2:46am On Nov 26, 2007
@Kobojunkie,

Kobojunkie:

Why continue to FEED people who obviously do not care for what you have to say?? @Pilgrim1. What do you gain from telling those who could not care if you say A or B all this that you tell them?? There are verses in the same Bible that says you should avoid VAIN BABBLING and STUPID arguing @Pilgrim1 . Please do the wise thing!!!

Thank you dear bros. I know the verses that you referred to - and I do my best to avoid "profane and vain babblings" (1 Tim. 6:20). The wise thing to do, however, is not simply to become mute in the face of Islamic duplicity. First, we are responsible to offer answers to sincere enquirers (1 Pet. 3:15).

On the other hand, there is a balance because the Bible gives us wisdom to know how to proffer answers, so that while many people argue foolishly with dubious intents, it should not discourage Christians from continuing to share Biblical truths:

Eccl. 12:9
And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught
the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out,
and set in order many proverbs.

As the wise apostle said, let us not be weary in well doing, for in due season we shall reap if we faint not (Gal. 6:9).

Many blessings.
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by IDINRETE: 6:07pm On Nov 26, 2007
combatant:

@Dios



So you are aware of his (focused) dishonesty. A simple question was asked but read the apologist's response.

Dios, are you in anyway related to idinrete? He is very humorous just like you grin



Can you proof it mister?

@poster, this topic still holds. Carry on.



dear combatant

im not related to Dios except as a fellow nairalander

one piece of advice you need to change your name because Bush Jnr might mistake you to be ENEMY-COMBATANT and send you to gitmo
grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

abeg dont mind me o
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by auwal87(m): 6:58pm On Dec 03, 2007
pilgrim.1:


Psalm 2:7, 11-12
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me,
Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that
put their trust in HIM.

Proverbs 30:4
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath
gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a
garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth?
what is his name, and what is his son's name,
if thou canst tell?"

Is the answer to this simple question there please? All those that died before Jesus came were going to hell fire, True or False?
All the above verses has nothing to do with my simple Question "Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire?"
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by babs787(m): 8:01pm On Dec 03, 2007
Is the answer to this simple question there please? All those that died before Jesus came were going to hell fire, True or False?All the above verses has nothing to do with my simple Question "Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire?"

I wonder ooooooo
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by Kobojunkie: 12:46am On Dec 04, 2007
babs787:

I wonder ooooooo

Actually the answer to the question is simple. ONLY GOD KNOWS THE HEART OF EACH MAN. God Knows who is his and Who is not. YOu and I can not sit here and decide for anyone else. You  CANNOT know the heart of another man so why do you think you can know where exactly his soul  is going if you are clueless when it comes to the very state of his soul when it comes to his relationship with God?. So It is illogical to sit and claim all persons who died without MY KNOWING that he or she did not accept Christ is going to hell. Why is it illogical?? Simple!!! Cause that would imply that in your arrogance, you have decided to take God's place as Judge and so If you REALLY want to know, best you ask God. Is that hard


Yeah, What I love is when people come up with a question and somehow think they have everyone cornered. Yeah, they have cooked up the one question to destroy all previously established thought. As if to say NO one, during Jesus own time, thought to ask him the very same question when he said He was THE WAY. Na wa o!! I espect such from children and not adults. But then again, there are adults out there who believe the world is just what is around them, I guess.  grin , ooohh,
Re: Christians: Are All Those That Died Before Jesus Going To Hell Fire? by Nobody: 5:23am On Dec 04, 2007
Romans 2:12-16

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one anotherwink In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."



great answer from the Bible.
That's why I love the scriptures.
smiley smiley smiley smiley smiley
To the Muslims,the Bible has a clear answer for your questions.
Any one that died without the law will be judged based on the rules of their day since each soceity at that time had their set of rules regarding right and wrong and those who had the levitical laws will be judged by it.
And you and I today who live after the ultimate sacrifice on the cross will be judges by that better covenant.

Those who died without the gospel God had already made a way for their judgement.
You on the other hand has heard the gospel so you are without excuse

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