A catholic bishop (Cardinal George Pell) says that atheists can go to heaven in a debate with Richard Dawkins. This not an ordinary bishop, he is the highest authorityin the catholic church in Australia


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24UOgClzvqk

He mite just be 1 crazy bishop that side tracked....
These are d kinda bishops that also sanction gay marraige in d church....


1st of all d persons going to heaven have an assignment to carry out...

To rule as kings and priests in heaven alongside Jesus....

These are persons who r ®eady take up responsibilty,who already know there's a great task ahead of them.....

These r persons who are ready to follow Jesus where ever he goes....

How can an atheist who hates God,curses him, go to heaven??

To do what


When he or she to start with barely knows why d heavens was made and why persons will go there....


That bishop is sick...

ijawkid:
He mite just be 1 crazy bishop that side tracked....
These are d kinda bishops that also sanction gay marraige in d church....

He's crazy because he's preaching something.. by this definition all other churches that broke away from the Catholic church are also crazy...

ijawkid:
1st of all d persons going to heaven have an assignment to carry out...
To rule as kings and priests in heaven alongside Jesus....
These are persons who r ®eady take up responsibilty,who already know there's a great task ahead of them.....

If everyone going to heaven is going to rule, who the 4k are they going to rule over?

ijawkid:
These r persons who are ready to follow Jesus where ever he goes....
How can an atheist who hates God,curses him, go to heaven??
To do what

I don't know about the hating and cursing something you don't believe in part. But if there's a heaven, some atheists would make it..

ijawkid:
When he or she to start with barely knows why d heavens was made and why persons will go there....
That bishop is sick...

Hmm...

musKeeto:
He's crazy because he's preaching something.. by this definition all other churches that broke away from the Catholic church are also crazy...


If everyone going to heaven is going to rule, who the 4k are they going to rule over?


I don't know about the hating and cursing something you don't believe in part. But if there's a heaven, some atheists would make it..


Hmm...

Not every1 will go to heaven to rule,because they must rule over subjects.....


Those on earth my bro...........


U can't actually go to heaven when u never got ready here on earth to take up that responsibility......

AnÐ again I stress that bishop must be crazy....

U know why


Because d catholic church isn't d bible........

I have a bible,I follow what it says,not what some bishop says......

These are d kinda bishops that sanction gay marraiges too......

Soon he might tell u gays will go to heaven.......


Those who are going to heaven will rule with christ for a thousand years over those who are on earth when satan will be locked in d abyss.......


An atheist can't fit into that arrangement.....(Sorry))...


But I thought u guys love d earth so much...

Ur suppose to be hating what d bishop said....
Lol

Laugh my heart out, Why are you so bothered about going to heaven? Why are you so curious about somethings you don't believe in?

Look let me tell you something that you may not believe in for now but you surely know it, that there is always an hunger consciously or unconsciously in man towards his creator. Its in us you can never take it away though you might want to shy away from it, you will always come back to it that it is the reason we are not Apes. I am giving you my words.

Why do atheists care? You do not believe in afterlife because of your hopelessness hence the embrace of total annihilation in every dimension after death.

ijawkid: He mite just be 1 crazy bishop that side tracked....
These are d kinda bishops that also sanction gay marraige in d church....


1st of all d persons going to heaven have an assignment to carry out...

To rule as kings and priests in heaven alongside Jesus....

These are persons who r ®eady take up responsibilty,who already know there's a great task ahead of them.....

These r persons who are ready to follow Jesus where ever he goes....

How can an atheist who hates God,curses him, go to heaven??

To do what


When he or she to start with barely knows why d heavens was made and why persons will go there....


That bishop is sick...

Catholics dont endorse gay marriage, its anglicans. You're confused.

You seem so angry!! Were you happy before in the knowlede that atheists will burn in hell?

ijawkid:


Not every1 will go to heaven to rule,because they must rule over subjects.....




U know why


Because d catholic church isn't d bible........

I have a bible,I follow what it says,not what some bishop says......

These are d kinda bishops that sanction gay marraiges too......


An atheist can't fit into that arrangement.....(Sorry))...


But I thought u guys love d earth so much...

Ur suppose to be hating what d bishop said....
Lol

1) The catholic church compiled the bible you use. You are a catholic in denial because all modern churches broke away from catholic church. Can you trace your church to the 1st century? No. Catholics can

2) Who said that I am happy with what the Bishop said? I am just showing everyone how schizophrenic christianity is.

brainpulse: Laugh my heart out, Why are you so bothered about going to heaven? Why are you so curious about somethings you don't believe in?

Look let me tell you something that you may not believe in for now but you surely know it, that there is always an hunger consciously or unconsciously in man towards his creator. Its in us you can never take it away though you might want to shy away from it, you will always come back to it that it is the reason we are not Apes. I am giving you my words.

Why do you love to dwell in ignorance?


1) Where do I say that I am bothered about heaven? How did you jump to the conclusion? I only put the video to show how christianity is schizoprenic in their doctrine


2) Go and take you creationist babble somewhere else. I am not hungry for things that do not exist


3) Heaven and hell do not exist. They are imaginary

jmoore: Why do atheists care? You do not believe in afterlife because of your hopelessness hence the embrace of total annihilation in every dimension after death.

Where did I say I care about heaven? Why do you always jump into conclusions?

ijawkid: He mite just be 1 crazy bishop that side tracked....
These are d kinda bishops that also sanction gay marraige in d church....


1st of all d persons going to heaven have an assignment to carry out...

To rule as kings and priests in heaven alongside Jesus....

These are persons who r ®eady take up responsibilty,who already know there's a great task ahead of them.....

These r persons who are ready to follow Jesus where ever he goes....

How can an atheist who hates God,curses him, go to heaven??

To do what


When he or she to start with barely knows why d heavens was made and why persons will go there....


That bishop is sick...

please watch the video and tell me what it says. The is teaching to a good extent true catholic theology

It seems people are not happy that atheists are going to heaven

You prefer us to burn in hell for not paying tithes like you painfully do?

logicboy:


1) The catholic church compiled the bible you use. You are a catholic in denial because all modern churches broke away from catholic church. Can you trace your church to the 1st century? No. Catholics can

2) Who said that I am happy with what the Bishop said? I am just showing everyone how schizophrenic christianity is.

They compiled a bible they can't still stick to...
Right??

They compiled a bible that refutes many of the doctrines they hold on to....

Abeg throw way that matter for gutter.....!!!!!!!!


Catholics dnt own d bible.....
Its nt there property.....

If it was we wouldn't be using it today,I'll rather use a quaran........

ijawkid:

They compiled a bible they can't still stick to...
Right??

They compiled a bible that refutes many of the doctrines they hold on to....

Abeg throw way that matter for gutter.....!!!!!!!!


Catholics dnt own d bible.....
Its nt there property.....

If it was we wouldn't be using it today,I'll rather use a quaran........

Bro.. what ever version you've got was derived from the Catholic version.If you believe in your's, you simply believe in someone else's opinion of how the Bible should be intrepreted.
AND STOP BEING A HYPOCRITE. Even those you claim believe in the 'non-Catholic' version still do not stick to those rules, do they? Just look at the topics in the religious forum: tithes, masturbation, slaps, touch not thy anointed, you guys are a bunch of confused hypocrites..

ijawkid:

They compiled a bible they can't still stick to...
Right??

They compiled a bible that refutes many of the doctrines they hold on to....

Abeg throw way that matter for gutter.....!!!!!!!!


Catholics dnt own d bible.....
Its nt there property.....

If it was we wouldn't be using it today,I'll rather use a quaran........

They compiled the bible and therefore know more about the bible than other denominations do. The catholics have more right to go outside of the bible than you do.

I hope you realise that you sound like a hypocrite when saying that the catholics can not stick to the bible. Explain where in the bible did priests or Jesus amass wealth like the men of God today? When did speaking of tongues become part of deliverance?

Of course many atheists will go to "heaven" whilst many so called Theists will burn in hell. Jesus himself said so!

Matthew 7:23 - Jesus made it clear that there would be many who believed in his name even to the extent of successfully working miracles and casting out demons in his name. Yet he states that of these people he would say "epart from me, i never knew ye". . . What this connotes is that their acknowledgment of his name, acceptance of him as lord, and even investiture with miraculous powers from his name, were all empty and dead in his view if these people could not practice love.

This simply shows that the practice of love is what is far more important and relevant as opposed to merely acknowledging his name, however fervently believed or acknowledged.

Again, here is another scripture which i believe hammers home the point -

Matthew 25:35 - In this scripture Jesus specifically said that even people who did not know him but did loving deeds to other humans were actually doing those deeds to him! Thus this affirms my view that one loves God by loving one's fellow man, for how else will you explain this quote from that scripture -

". . .For i was hungry, and you gave me something to eat, i was thirstily, and you gave me something to drink, i was a stranger, and you invited me in, unclothed and you clothed me, i was sick and you visited me, i was in prison, and you came to me. Then the righteous will answer him and when did we do these things. . . And he responded " truly, to the extent that you did these for even the least of my brothers, you did it for me. . ."

I reproduce in blue below the post in that thread which sums up my view and the point laboured to be made -

^^^ And what does it take to worship God, if not simply be a good person Viaro?

Are the outward forms and rituals, such as Prayer, Praise, Ceremonies etc really required by a Living God?

In all sincerity, let me ask you what you understand by the injunction that one must worship God is Spirit and in Truth?

In my own understanding, that simply means that dead outward ceremonies are not the substance of worshipping God - that the worship of God rather relates to the inward state of the spirit which corresponds to eternal truth.

This is why I brought up the parable of the good Samaritan, which I thought should be sufficient to show you from your own bible that the worship of God has absolutely nothing to do with outward ceremonies, rituals or dogmatic or doctrinal acknowledgements.

Now to elucidate the point it is critical that we carefully note the context of that parable -

The Gospel of Luke provides the context for the parable as:

One day an expert in religious law stood up to test Jesus by asking him this question: “Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?”

So it should be noted that the parable was given within a context of salvation – namely that which would be required for one to be accepted with God.

Jesus replied, “What does the law of Moses say? How do you read it?”

The man answered, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.’ And, ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’” “Right!” Jesus told him. “Do this and you will live!”

So it is also clear that the ensuing parable sets forth that which it takes to “love God” and “love one’s neighbour.”

This is all the more emphasized since as you well know Jesus often stated that those who care for their neighbours were actually showing such love to him and to God. “I was hungry, and you fed me . . . whenever you did this for one of those, you did the same for me. . . “

The man wanted to justify his actions, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbour?”

Jesus then replied with a story:

“A Jewish man was travelling on a trip from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he was attacked by bandits. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him up, and left him half dead beside the road. By chance a priest came along. But when he saw the man lying there, he crossed to the other side of the road and passed him by. A Levite walked over and looked at him lying there, but he also passed by on the other side.


Now it is instructive that Jesus selects a Priest and a Levite to demonstrate his point – because the Priest and the Levite as you well know symbolize those who expressly acknowledge God, accept all the attendant doctrines about God and morality, and actively execute the outward rituals of “worshipping” God. The Levites as you know were a dedicated tribe of holy priests within the nation of Israel.

However Jesus has just shown what I am trying to say – namely that all the outward forms of acknowledgement of God which these people subscribed to did not in any way mean that they were really worshipping God – because of their action of ignoring the man who was hurt.

Now note carefully the next verses –

“Then a despised Samaritan came along, and when he saw the man, he felt compassion for him.”

Stop press! Note the words “despised Samaritan?” Why did Jesus not use any other lay Jew or even a non-specified person to elucidate his point? He rather chose to select what? – a DESPISED SAMARITAN!

Now Wikipedia says -

Portraying a Samaritan in positive light would have come as a shock to Jesus' audience.[1] It is typical of his provocative speech in which conventional expectations are turned upside down.[1]

Thus note carefully the context – the Samaritan symbolizes people who are deemed to be “on the wrong side” of correct religious doctrine at the time and people who were accordingly “despised.”

Notwithstanding that, this is what Jesus conveys –

“Going over to him, the Samaritan soothed his wounds with olive oil and wine and bandaged them. Then he put the man on his own donkey and took him to an inn, where he took care of him. The next day he handed the innkeeper two silver coins, telling him, ‘Take care of this man. If his bill runs higher than this, I’ll pay you the next time I’m here.’

Jesus concludes –

“Now which of these three would you say was a neighbour to the man who was attacked by bandits?” Jesus asked. The man replied, “The one who showed him mercy.” Then Jesus said, “Yes, now go and do the same.

In this parable it is critical to note the imagery of the selected individuals –

1. “A Priest and a Levite” – are clearly indicative of people who have formally acknowledged God and are also at the fore-front of all the outward rituals and ceremonies.

2. “A Samaritan” – is considered on the wrong side of doctrine and dogma and is also “generally despised” in religious terms.

However it is easy to see that the man who is supposedly on the wrong side of doctrine – who no indication of God is made about is painted in glowing terms by Jesus because of his kind and merciful deeds.

I need to point out also the Imagery of Brotherly Affiliation. Note this from Wikipedia –

According to the Jewish version of events, when the Judean exile ended in 538 BCE and the exiles began returning home from Babylon, they found their former homeland populated by other people who claimed the land as their own and Jerusalem, their former glorious capital, in ruins.

And –

Jewish tradition maintains a different origin for the Samaritans. The Talmud accounts for a people called "Cuthim" on a number of occasions, mentioning their arrival by the hands of the Assyrians.

Much may be said – but basically there was this divide existing between the Jews and the Samaritans.

Now In answering the question – “who is your neighbor” – the parable of the Good Samaritan goes the extra step of showing that neighborliness arises not from tribal or religious affiliations but from loving acts of concern for one another.

What this shows is that the “groups” of churches, mosques, or other theists, are useless in determining the question of neighborliness. An Atheist or Buddhist could as well be a better neighbor than your Deacon in Church or your Imam in Mosque.

And given the parable of the Good Samaritan, in such an event, we can clearly see WHOM has done the will of God. . . .

So my dear friend, while you edify nobody by talking endlessly about definitions (define this, define that), I assert to you today that which was the living essence of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ – namely that love trumps all things and is the very essence of Christianity.

And if an Atheist or a Buddhist will show such love, then he has certainly met the requirements of the God that Jesus preached about – regardless of whether he accepts that such a God exists or not.

This is so simple and so pure – and should come so naturally to the Christian who is steeped in the ideas of Christ – which ideas tended towards love and doctrinal flexibility: and not towards iron cast “definitions” which you regrettably seem adamantly attached to – at the expense of the simple beauty of the gospel of Jesus. Jesus statements on the observance of the Sabbath and other such – just show the flexibility I speak about – which tends towards –spirit and truth – and not outward forms.

At all events since it is a given that you will yet dispute this simple and lucid example; for the objective reader – I state in simplicity – An Atheist or a Buddhist, if he lives a life of love and charity - certainly does the will of the God that Jesus preached about.

Deep Sight:
Of course many atheists will go to "heaven" whilst many so called Theists will burn in hell. Jesus himself said so!

Matthew 7:23 - Jesus made it clear that there would be many who believed in his name even to the extent of successfully working miracles and casting out demons in his name. Yet he states that of these people he would say "epart from me, i never knew ye". . . What this connotes is that their acknowledgment of his name, acceptance of him as lord, and even investiture with miraculous powers from his name, were all empty and dead in his view if these people could not practice love.

This simply shows that the practice of love is what is far more important and relevant as opposed to merely acknowledging his name, however fervently believed or acknowledged.

Again, here is another scripture which i believe hammers home the point -

Matthew 25:35 - In this scripture Jesus specifically said that even people who did not know him but did loving deeds to other humans were actually doing those deeds to him! Thus this affirms my view that one loves God by loving one's fellow man, for how else will you explain this quote from that scripture -

". . .For i was hungry, and you gave me something to eat, i was thirstily, and you gave me something to drink, i was a stranger, and you invited me in, unclothed and you clothed me, i was sick and you visited me, i was in prison, and you came to me. Then the righteous will answer him and when did we do these things. . . And he responded " truly, to the extent that you did these for even the least of my brothers, you did it for me. . ."

Wow. Thanks for the info!

Now I cannot end this without dropping my all-time favourite post ever made on Nairaland. Its by a poster called M_Nwankwo.

EVERY SINGLE POSTER on this section MUST read this post. It is the end of all debates on everything.

God is love. One can also say that God is the source of love. All creatures of God irrespective of race, religion, sex, nationality etc can absorb of this love of God and dispense it accordingly. In the case of human beings, what absorbs this love from God is the human spirit. This love will permeate the spirit, its clocks including the outermost shell, the physical body. Thus he who absorbs the rays of love will manifest love including love for all creations of God. Now, the recognition of this love as coming from God depends on the various radiation connection between the spirit and the various shells surrounding the spirit, the last shell being the physical body and its coordinating center, the human brain. In many of us, this radiation connections are not straight, thus the shells enveloping the spirit are not conscious of the impressions that vibrates in the spirit. Thus a man may believe himself to be an atheist because that is what his brain tells him and yet his spirit is in the recognition of God. Irrespective of his brain telling him that God does not exist, the emanations of the spirit including love still permeates his mind and body resulting in expressions of genuine love. Thus although from a human standpoint, such a man is considered by himself and others to be atheist, spiritually the man is a theist.

In a similar vein the brain and the mind may be trained or indoctrinated or programmed to believe in God but their spirit has no recognition of God. In this case, this believer is actually an atheist even though he believes himself to be a theist. However because he, that is, the spirit has no connection with God, he cannot absorb the rays of love and manifest it. Thus, in spite of his intellectual believe in God, he still manifests the works of the flesh including hatred, anger, lust, gossip, avarice, fear, etc. The species of a seed determines the fruits that it will bear. Thus all genuine love and human beings who indulge in it believe in God even when they are unconscious of it while on earth.

Thus, all human beings who indulge in genuine love are of God and all those who indulge in hatred are not of God. By there works or fruits, you shall know those who stand in the will of God and those that oppose it or do not recognize it. This is an infallible yardstick to know who belongs to God and those who are not.

Therefore the love of God manifests in the love of all creations of God. On earth, it is possible for an atheist to love God without being spiritually conscious of it. However if such atheist continues in the manifestation of the love of God, either later in this earthly life or in the beyond on in another earthly life the emanations of the love of God that vibrates in his spirit will also permeate his earthly brain such that he also becomes conscious of the existence of God while in the physical body. What counts is how our spirit is close or far away from the will of God. Religion, nationality, sex, class and similar things that we think are very important while on earth are worthless once we drop this physical body.

In my view, there is no difference between the pope, the Christian, the mystic or an atheists when it concerns the will of God. Murder is murder whether perpetrated by a pope, a theist or an atheist. Genuine love is genuine love whether it came from an atheist, a pastor or an agnostic. Sometimes we think too much and thus think nothing. If we look around even on earth, we should find that the natural laws which are the manifestation of the will of God in nature does not give a hoot about all these artificial constructs. If a bud-hist sows yam in a fertile soil, he will reap yam. The same goes for an atheist and the theist. In an earthquake or epidemic or accident, both theists and atheists are saved and killed. A deeper look on why these things are the way they are may open our eyes to the working of God. Best wishes.

https://www.nairaland.com/687376/true-meaning-love-nwankwo

logicboy:


Wow. Thanks for the info!

lol, atheist want to go to heaven. What happened to no afterlife?

^^^ It doesnt matter whether the atheist believes in such. Read the teachings above. All that matters is that he believes in and practices love to all men, and keeps a clear conscience. Finito. If he does this, he will beat a million so called christians and muslims to the finish line.

Gba.

jmoore:

lol, atheist want to go to heaven. What happened to no afterlife?

Hey Mr Troll-moore often, I never said that I want to go to heaven. Please, try and quote where I said so.

I dont believe in anything spiritual

Deep Sight:
^^^ It doesnt matter whether the atheist believes in such. Read the teachings above. All that matters is that he believes in and practices love to all men, and keeps a clear conscience. Finito. If he does this, he will beat a million so called christians and muslims to the finish line.

Gba.

Thank you, but I dont believe in heavan or hell

Deep Sight:
^^^ It doesnt matter whether the atheist believes in such. Read the teachings above. All that matters is that he believes in and practices love to all men, and keeps a clear conscience. Finito. If he does this, he will beat a million so called christians and muslims to the finish line.

Gba.

Really? who are you? an "all rounder" messenger? Your own gospel is from where? If you are quoting Jesus, quote all the verses that relates to eternal salvation and not one verse to suit your own agenda.

jmoore:

Really? who are you? an "all rounder" messenger? Your own gospel is from where? If you are quoting Jesus, quote all the verses that relates to eternal salvation and not one verse to suit your own agenda.

Why so angry? Are you really unhappy that people are saying that atheists will go to heaven? Is that how much of a bigot you are against atheist that you can not even give them a piece of imaginary everlasting life?

You don't believe in God, why waste your time in a religious section? No, I am not angry. The same bigotry applies to you as well.

logicboy:

I dont believe in anything spiritual

On reflection, this is a very funny statement. Actually even contradictory and absurd.

I will tell you why. You live your entire life based on con-physical concepts and notions. Everything that you are and everything that your life is, are agglomerations of non-physical things. And yet you cavalierly make this sort of statement. Its so funnyy. Pause and think carefully about it.

Before responding, as you are ever quick to do, I want you to review this thread -

https://www.nairaland.com/357796/kag-atheism-dialectics-spirituality

Deep Sight: Everything that you are and everything that your life is, are agglomerations of non-physical things

is that what "spiritual" is? What are some examples of non physical things?

^^^ There is a great post from Prizm a long time ago that excellently captures what I am saying here -

Prizm:

Have you ever run into people who say something like "If something is not immediately evident to my five senses, it is not real and should not be believed"? or "The only reality I can accept is that reality that is empirically observable" or something like "Reality is simply something that is physical and can be directly apprehended by the 5 sense organs" or something like "If you cannot know or prove something with your 5 senses then that thing is just meaningless and has no truth value"?

My point is that people who make such claims do not live their lives as though they actually believed the full import of that statement. For there are a vast number of situations where human beings act and behave on presuppositions and assumptions that we are very rational to believe but which are not empirically testable. How for example do such people deal with ethical truths, aesthetic truths, or moral truths? As a matter of fact, even science itself (which they'd always want to fall back on ) works on lots of assumptions that have not been explicitly observed or proven. Such people who adopt these positions (Verificationists) cannot function much in society for their attitude is inimical to science itself and commonsense. On the whole, this philosophical Verificationism is self-referentially incoherent for it doesn't take much to figure out that any statement of Verificationist principles i[b]s by its very nature incapable of being empirically observed.[/b]

Deep Sight:
^^^ There is a great post from Prizm a long time ago that excellently captures what I am saying here -

Good for prizm....besides I know we can't know,see or feel everything with our five senses only.......what do you mean by non physical things?

Deep Sight:


On reflection, this is a very funny statement. Actually even contradictory and absurd.

I will tell you why. You live your entire life based on con-physical concepts and notions. Everything that you are and everything that your life is, are agglomerations of non-physical things. And yet you cavalierly make this sort of statement. Its so funnyy. Pause and think carefully about it.

Before responding, as you are ever quick to do, I want you to review this thread -

https://www.nairaland.com/357796/kag-atheism-dialectics-spirituality

You sound like one fake guru. Give me one spiritual thing that my life is made up of.

^ Please first tell me what you would consider to be a spiritual thing.

I need to know first if you are a strict materialist: i.e: you believe that only physical things exist?