Warning: this is a taboo topic, so if you are an orthodox theist, I would advise you to stay away.

A few months ago, a thread was created by Tobechi20 concerning the views of atheists on bestiality. Some atheists(including me) made known their strict disapproval and the thread, due to it's supposed ridiculous nature, was even temporarily closed. But slowly I began to consider that if such liberal acts like homosexuality could be favoured by most Nigerian(and by Nigerian I mean Nairaland) atheists, then why not bestiality? I know I know, I sound very disgusting, so vile and repulsive as to even consider such. But isn't that what we feel, or at least for some of us, used to feel about homosexuality?

Before I left Christianity, I couldn't bear to see two men kiss. I thought it was so distasteful and wrong. Surprisingly, even after my deconversion, I realised I still couldn't bear it. Quite hypocritically I accept, I do not mind seeing two attractive ladies make-out, I do not mind at all. But seeing two men gives me goosebumps. Nevertheless, I made up my mind to accept it. These are people who should be allowed to freely express their sexual orientation without fear of discrimination. We should even be happy for them. So why the negativity when it came to bestiality? Can disgust alone justify disapproval? What makes it so wrong?

An overly used argument against bestiality is consent, that animals cannot consent to it and therefore it should not be allowed. Well why do we not think of consent when we use animals for laboratory testing, artificial insemination, when we hunt them for sport, castrate and even slaughter them for animal meat? Some of these things even seem more barbaric than intercourse. Infact mere "trivialities" like locking up animals, leashing them, do we really believe animals consent to them? If these things were done to humans it would be labeled murder, kidnap, abuse, cannibalism, but when it comes to animals it's simply a norm, a so called order of the day. And so don't you think this issue of consent only when it comes to zoophilia is plainly hypocritical and solely based on prejudice than on morality?

Besides, I am talking about zoophilia and not zoosadism or anything of that sort, my attention drawn specifically to cases in which a human maintains a romantic relationship with an animal, in which he forms both emotional and sexual attachments to the animal and is concerned about the animal's welfare. It is no news that animals do enjoy these things. Some even initiate these sexual practices, sometimes signalled by the occasional hump on the human's back. Moreover, consent means to show approval, and what does willingness to engage in the act signal if not approval? Does it really have to be verbal?

I even have a vague recollection of a psychologist who said she had conducted extensive research on the nervous system and found feelings of love and affection to be produced in a very primitive part of the brain, one very much present in animals. Hence it is not unreasonable to conclude that animals experience feelings of love, that they can focus all their sexual energy on one individual. In simpler terms, she claims it is possible for animals to fall in love. And in the case of zoophilia, well, even with a human being.

We should also not be quick to forget the golden rule, that one should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself. And so I ask, is it not fair to allow people freely express themselves like we ourselves do? Psychopathy and paraphilic disorders are limited to cases in which "distress is caused to the individual and harm done to others". In cases of zoophilia, where nothing of that sort is accounted for, can we still say we have a right to call such beings sick and stop them from being happy?

It seems to me that homosexuality is being given such preferential treatment due to it's prevalence and increased advocacy in the world. But surprisingly, bestiality is also considerably common(in secret of course). A study conducted by Alfred Kinsey found 8% of men and 3.6% of women to have had some sort of sexual interaction with animals, mainly people in rural areas though. A 1988 study also suggested that 7.5% of 186 university students had interacted sexually with animals, not to talk of the even higher rate of people who have had sexual fantasies involving animals but have never acted them out. Now although the Kinsey reports have been widely criticised due to disproportionate representation, I myself did a little internet study and realised that these figures might not be so unrealistic after all. There are many zoophiles out there, all hiding under the cover of societal norms but truly being attracted to animals, some even having no such interest in humans at all, a good number of them being sexually attracted to animals from their adolescence, just like the average John and Mary...

Now if you could recall, in the beginning of this write-up, I had asked why Nigerian atheists did not favour bestiality. This is because, as it turns out, bestiality seems to be legally and widely accepted in the most irreligious countries like Denmark, Belgium, Sweden, Finland and so on. Some even allow animal porn. These are countries known to be among the least corrupt, with the lowest rates of violence, places we atheists more than love to highlight as model civilisations.
To me it seems bestiality and other paraphilia are gradually taking the path homosexuality took: from crude disgust, to gradual acceptance, to a high degree of tolerance.

In the course of my writing this article, I had taken the position of one who defends bestiality. In all honesty I am not for or against it, I simply want to know what makes it so different from homosexuality, why many atheists, with all our might advocate homosexuality, but once bestiality is mentioned quickly distance ourselves from it.
What makes it so wrong? What makes it immoral?
Please do tell me, as I am all ears.

I'm an atheist and I don't support homosexuality. I think beastiality and homosexuality are disgusting habits which may also be a form of mental disorder.

alpha_scorpio: I'm an atheist and I don't support homosexuality. I think beastiality and homosexuality are disgusting habits which may also be a form of mental disorder.

If that is your view then I have no problem with it. This is for people who do support homosexuality. Although if I may ask, why do you think it is a mental disorder? You do know cases of homosexuality have been reported in the wild don't you?
Do those animals also have mental problems?

Beastiality - inter species virus, bacteria, other germs transfer

Homosexuality - nothing like that

Mixing man with other animals is to me, stupi.dity, since you are not experimenting or something.



If you wanna f4k your dog, its no problem with me, but after, dont f4k a woman, because another HIV like virus might start circulating.

Use a specially designed contraceptive for beastiality and i have no probs with you man.

We are in a free world, you are free to do whatever, as long as you are not hurting anyone.



apart from the above, beastiality or homosexuality, whatever - is non of my my f4king business.

inurmind:

If that is your view then I have no problem with it. This is for people who do support homosexuality. Although if I may ask, why do you think it is a mental disorder? You do know cases of homosexuality have been reported in the wild don't you?
Do those animals also have mental problems?

I know of animals in the wild that practice homosexuality but I still maintain my stand that it may be a mental disorder. As an atheist I believe evolution is the best explanation for where we are right now. Think about this: if our ancestors were all homosexuals that would have been the end of our species. I may be wrong but I believe that any species that engages in activities that will lead to its own extinction is not mentally stable.

ooman:
Homosexuality- HIV, bacteria, other germs transfer

Heterosexuality - nothing like that

Mixing man with man is to me, stupi.dity, since you are not experimenting or something.



If you wanna f4k your bro, its no problem with me, but after, dont f4k a woman, because another HIV like virus might start circulating.

Use a specially designed contraceptive for homosexuality and i have no probs with you man.

We are in a free world, you are free to do whatever, as long as you are not hurting anyone.



apart from the above, beastiality or homosexuality, whatever - is non of my my f4king business.

Now we're talking.

@inurmind,concerning the argument about bonobo chimps practising homosexuality so it must be normal,my question is this:there are many species of animals who murder their own young(cannibalism),others suicide,(scorpions),so does that make cannibalism and suicide also normal?

alpha_scorpio:
I know of animals in the wild that practice homosexuality but I still maintain my stand that it may be a mental disorder. As an atheist I believe evolution is the best explanation for where we are right now. Think about this: if our ancestors were all homosexuals that would have been the end of our species. I may be wrong but I believe that any species that engages in activities that will lead to its own extinction is not mentally stable.

It may, or it may not.
Generally though I have absolutely no problem with your opinion. I personally think the human mind is getting more complex and more open about it's complexities.
Although, what do you think should be done to those people with "mental disorders". Besides, don't you think that it is beneficial to the world. The population of the world is increasing at an alarming rate, and very unhealthy pressure is being put on resources available. Such cases of paraphilia seem advantageous as they will not lead to any population increase, don't they?

Niflheim: @inurmind,concerning the argument about bonobo chimps practising homosexuality so it must be normal,my question is this:there are many species of animals who murder their own young(cannibalism),others suicide,(scorpions),so does that make cannibalism and suicide also normal?

Apparently yes, what it doesn't make it is right. That's why I ask :how wrong or right is homosexuality , bestiality, and the many other paraphilia that exist?

I am an agnostic and I think that things like homosexuality, beastiality, paedophilia, necrophilia and the likes are against the advancement of the human race and are mental conditions. I mean, what exactly will prompt an healthy able bodied man to leave a beautiful woman (an homosapien like him) to focus on a dog if he still has a functioning brain?

inurmind:

It may, or it may not.
Generally though I have absolutely no problem with your opinion. I personally think the human mind is getting more complex and more open about it's complexities.
Although, what do you think should be done to those people with "mental disorders". Besides, don't you think that it is beneficial to the world. The population of the world is increasing at an alarming rate, and very unhealthy pressure is being put on resources available. Such cases of paraphilia seem advantageous as they will not lead to any population increase, don't they?

well if population density is one of the excuse,you gonna give for stuffs like this then,you leave me no choice than to say its fallacious

@ Op I get your arguement but its weird man.......most times what brings arguement like this is the hypocrisy in the life of we humans.....but note stuffs like this are irrational

inurmind:

It may, or it may not.
Generally though I have absolutely no problem with your opinion. I personally think the human mind is getting more complex and more open about it's complexities.
Although, what do you think should be done to those people with "mental disorders". Besides, don't you think that it is beneficial to the world. The population of the world is increasing at an alarming rate, and very unhealthy pressure is being put on resources available. Such cases of paraphilia seem advantageous as they will not lead to any population increase, don't they?

Lol @ your population control theory. Ur theory is ignoring the long term term effect of such practice and your theory is also ignoring the wide spread effect too. Of course there will be no population increase because if everybody had that sexual orientation it will only take probably a hundred years for every human specie to go extinct since there will be no reproduction.

let us first understand one thing. physically, man is not equal to women , or man is not equal to another animal. what women do to each other is non-penetrative. what man does to man is penetrative. can result in disease.
what man does to animal/or animal does to woman is penetrative. can result in disease/newer diseases.

I am against man-man s.ex , especially if the person is not genetically ho.mosexual or suffers other such handicaps. it is morally wrong and if he does so, he is doing crime. if both consent to it. then let them do what they want.

In the case of animal-man/animal-woman, i am 100% against it, because animals are innocent and do not realise what is happening to them. it is therefore without their consent. let us not abuse the sacred innocence of animals.

someone here mentioned, what about putting animals in cages/chaining them without consent ,etc.

I say that is wrong too. the poultry that comes from those small cages, processed, etc., it is all wrong.

the only proper, Gods ordained natural way of killing animals is by hunting, or by free-roaming herded livestock, as in he case of those kept by nomadic tribes, and in the case of the free-roaming chicken and poultry you see in your village.

therefore today, the only right way we consume a living thing is the fish. the fish is the last survivng mode of hunted and consumed animal today.

Hunting as our forefathers did before and during colonial days is best, becaue it gives the animal the chance to escape and save its life and is the natural way animals consume other animals. by hunting , I mean subsistence hunting. hunting only for immediate needs and not mass slaughter. this subsistence hunting was a way proposed recently for the nomads of SOuth Sudan during a conservation referendum. It is the natural and right way.

Meat from nomadic herds is ok , because these are free roaming herds from millenia, and this is the Gods-ordained and natural human/tribal way of livelihood. The cattle of nomads cannot exist by themselves if left alone. It is a symbiotic relationship between humans and certain animals and is therefore right. neither can exist without the other. Both live free lives. Settled people are supposed to buy from these nomads and not those factories that cage them. This was how it was done in the past, and even now , many of us Hausa by cattle/goat directly from Fulani Herders. Our government must do something to bring back this system and encourage these tribes and their livelihood and importance. For example, in parts of Central/West India, the cattle-owning tribes have formed a co-operative called the Amul Co-operative, where the company gets its milk directly from cows owned by cattle-herding tribes of places such as Gujarat.
also cattle herding tribes rarely consume meat because they cant afford to lose their precious cattle.


I am against processed caged poultry and meat we see today in the markets. I am against bestiality.

Da-ny-ell:
I am an agnostic and I think that things like homosexuality, beastiality, paedophilia, necrophilia and the likes are against the advancement of the human race and are mental conditions. I mean, what exactly will prompt an healthy able bodied man to leave a beautiful woman (an homosapien like him) to focus on a dog if he still has a functioning brain?

Those that practise bestiality don't have functioning brains?

What about homosexuals?

It seems the op doesnt know the meaning of CONSENT

A child cannot give consent to se.x- Pedophile se.x is illegal.
An animal can not give consent to se.x- Bestiality illegal.


Two women can give consent to have se.x. with each other(There was no disgust to acceptance for you then, abi?)
Two men can give consent to have se.x with each other



I dont know why people can be really oblivious to simple facts.

Bestiality is NOT illegal in many countries.

italo: Bestiality is NOT illegal in many countries.

Doesnt mean that it is supported in those countries that it is not illegal. Kissing on the mainroad is not allowed in muslim countries. It is not illegal in naija but then....try am whether they no go yab you.

italo: Bestiality is NOT illegal in many countries.

Even countries where it illegal, the laws are somewhat recent and not very specific.


~FYI

Just wondering by what authority you declare it "illegal" since you didn't mention any particular country, that's why I said it is NOT illegal in many countries (regardless of whether they support it or not...or whether the laws are recent or ancient).

italo: Just wondering by what authority you declare it "illegal" since you didn't mention any particular country, that's why I said it is NOT illegal in many countries (regardless of whether they support it or not...or whether the laws are recent or ancient).

Based on the legal principle of consent. But then, you are not here for facts or reasoning

Da-ny-ell:
I am an agnostic and I think that things like homosexuality, beastiality, paedophilia, necrophilia and the likes are against the advancement of the human race and are mental conditions. I mean, what exactly will prompt an healthy able bodied man to leave a beautiful woman (an homosapien like him) to focus on a dog if he still has a functioning brain?

Guess I will have to repeat this. Do you believe animals who engage in homosexuality are also suffering from mental disorders? And if so what do you think can be done to cure it?

Dibangoking: well if population density is one of the excuse,you gonna give for stuffs like this then,you leave me no choice than to say its fallacious

How?

alpha_scorpio:
Lol @ your population control theory. Ur theory is ignoring the long term term effect of such practice and your theory is also ignoring the wide spread effect too. Of course there will be no population increase because if everybody had that sexual orientation it will only take probably a hundred years for every human specie to go extinct since there will be no reproduction.

Now who says everybody will have it? That my friend is a very faulty assumption. There are no such things as absolutes.
Instead I am talking about a variety, one in which everybody is free to do what makes them happy as long "distress is not caused to the individual or harm done to others".

Logicboy03: It seems the op doesnt know the meaning of CONSENT

A child cannot give consent to se.x- Pedophile se.x is illegal.
An animal can not give consent to se.x- Bestiality illegal.


Two women can give consent to have se.x. with each other(There was no disgust to acceptance for you then, abi?)
Two men can give consent to have se.x with each other



I dont know why people can be really oblivious to simple facts.

A child cannot be murdered for food or fun, a child cannot be leashed or caged, a child cannot be put to death if termed crazy, a child cannot be used as a lab rat(literally), a child cannot have all these things and many more done to him, at least not with the culprit being locked up. But yet we do all these things to animals and they become perfectly normal, makes perfect sense right?

By the way, what exactly does consent mean? Please enlighten me.

Logicboy03:


Based on the legal principle of consent. But then, you are not here for facts or reasoning

You seem to think that your definitions of "legal" and "illegal" are pervasive all over the world, even when we know it is not true.

One FACT is that bestiality is illegal in your mind but it is NOT illegal in many countries. Apparently, they don't care about your legal principle of consent.

BELGIUM, DENMARK, FINLAND and many other countries do not care about "facts and reasoning" abi?

inurmind:

Now who says everybody will have it? That my friend is a very faulty assumption. There are no such things as absolutes.
Instead I am talking about a variety, one in which everybody is free to do what makes them happy as long "distress is not caused to the individual or harm done to others".

Who decides what is "harm" and "distress?"

What one person considers "harmful" and "distressful"' another might consider as "okay."

I'm beginning to believe morality is merely sentimental. So its no use, rationalising it.

Logicboy03: It seems the op doesnt know the meaning of CONSENT

A child cannot give consent to se.x- Pedophile se.x is illegal.
An animal can not give consent to se.x- Bestiality illegal.


Two women can give consent to have se.x. with each other(There was no disgust to acceptance for you then, abi?)
Two men can give consent to have se.x with each other



I dont know why people can be really oblivious to simple facts.

well put.

inurmind:

Guess I will have to repeat this. Do you believe animals who engage in homosexuality are also suffering from mental disorders? And if so what do you think can be done to cure it?

which animals? dogs that hump legs do it due to icreaed se.xual drive. there is nothing homose.xual about it.male dogs that climb other males do it to show an act of dominance. they do not actually penetrate.

inurmind:

A child cannot be murdered for food or fun, a child cannot be leashed or caged, a child cannot be put to death if termed crazy, a child cannot be used as a lab rat(literally), a child cannot have all these things and many more done to him, at least not with the culprit being locked up. But yet we do all these things to animals and they become perfectly normal, makes perfect sense right?

By the way, what exactly does consent mean? Please enlighten me.

a child and an animal are similar in some respects (e.g., they are living things) and are different in others. lets separate the similarities from the differences/

it is not normal to use animals as lab rats, kill them unnnecessairly, cage them,etc.

this is termed today as "änimal abuse"

consent = permission.

italo:


BELGIUM, DENMARK, FINLAND and many other countries do not care about "facts and reasoning" abi?

We are the sovereign Nation of Nigeria and we have our brain. not everything those european countries do has to be right.