Joel.:
I would say that all africans are afflicted with povalty and other problems. Only the few are able to break out. I will tell u, Satan reside in african. U cant compare the standard of living and true development. God intervention is needed urgently in africa, if u ve food and basic amenities u won't remember church. Witchraft has destroy our God blessed nation.

logicboy:

Iceland
-A Gallup poll conducted in 2011 found that 60% of Icelanders considered religion to be unimportant in their daily lives, one of the highest rates of irreligion in the world.[3

New Zealand
-The results of this survey indicated that 72% of the population believe in God or a higher power, 15% are agnostic, and 13% are atheist (with a 3% margin of error).[8]

Japan
-64% atheistic

Martian:

If it wasn't one of the measures, "prosperity gospel" wouldn't be the most popular form of christianity in Nigeria.



You mean the ones who would have a harder task getting into the "kingdom of god" than a camel going through the eye of a needle? When you say the "rich and powerful people" in Nigeria, do you mean christians like OBJ and muslims like IBB? Ibori was a "rich and powerful" person too. Maybe when the poverty stricken masses see PimpDaddy G.O shaking Ibori's hand they get inspired by the holy spirit.



You need to quit smoking that opium.

Image123:
if 72% of new zealand believes in God, why claim it is not religious. are you an illiterate? And for the other two countries , you mean to say those are your epitome of peace and freedom? iceland freedom and japan peace? hmmm,ok. Do those countries experience their freedom and peace because of not being religious?

logicboy:

Causes of poverty in Nigeria

1) Corruption. Corrupt politicians

2) Greed. Government cronies selling generators and making billions instead of fixing electricity problems. Which multinational will invest in a country that can not manufacture anything due to electricity problems?

3) Religion. Boko haram. Tithe thieves. No separation of church and state. Inferiority complex to white Jesus

4) Thinking. The average Nigerian politician would rather buy a Jeep that can drive on mountains than fix the bad roads in Nigeria

4)

logicboy:


Sense, it no make!

hisblud:


Corruption, Greed and thinking are the others abi, ok apply same to "athiestic" nation that are experiencing stinging poverty standards on their populace. And with all their reasoning they are yet to solve their poverty problems.

logicboy:

I explained the type of greed and thinking that affects Nigeria specifically. They dont appl;y to atheistic nations.

Politicians are all corrupt, some countries more than others.


Please, apply some reasoning. I know that te slave religion has destroyed some parts of your mind yet

hisblud:

oops! so the bolded is not affected by greed or corruption oh so only "christian" countries have been so ravaged by greed and corruption because religion helps them to do G & C very well! see bias reasoning

logicboy:

I explained the type of greed and thinking that affects Nigeria specifically. They dont appl;y to atheistic nations.

Politicians are all corrupt, some countries more than others.

logicboy:


Out of that 72% who believe in God in New zealand, how many of them go to church?

"Religion in New Zealand is dominated demographically by Christianity, at just over half of the population at the 2006 New Zealand Census[1] although regular church attendance is probably closer to 15%""

Furthermore, New Zealand is a secular country, Nigeria is not. Did you also notice that 27% are clearly agnostic/atheist n ~New Zealand, while Nigeria has less than 1% atheists.
=================================================================

Did you also ignore the picture of the world peace index? Are you that shallow?

Yes, Japan, New Zealand and Iceland are peaceful because they are secular, secularity is a prerequiesite fro peace and freedom, not religion

logicboy:


Out of that 72% who believe in God in New zealand, how many of them go to church?

"Religion in New Zealand is dominated demographically by Christianity, at just over half of the population at the 2006 New Zealand Census[1] although regular church attendance is probably closer to 15%""

Furthermore, New Zealand is a secular country, Nigeria is not. Did you also notice that 27% are clearly agnostic/atheist n ~New Zealand, while Nigeria has less than 1% atheists.
=================================================================

Did you also ignore the picture of the world peace index? Are you that shallow?

Yes, Japan, New Zealand and Iceland are peaceful because they are secular, secularity is a prerequiesite fro peace and freedom, not religion

Image123:
72 is naturally more than two times of 27, it's natural to take more note of the 72 as been responsible for the happenings if that's a reliable benchmark, that is. Your table is useless as i also have mine table that says there is no peace for the sinner. Peace and freedom are relative you know? Neither secularity nor religion is a prerequisite for peace or freedom.

hisblud: what a generalization:-) ok wit the current world economic meltdown, i can ASSUME religion especially in the western countries, must be the principal reason. By extension, the devil is resident in greece which has been receiving bailout after bailout, yet no improvement. The devil is really drinking those bailout lol :-)

You are just beating around the bush. The people who compiled the peace index used a lot of inidcators to make that table such as political instability, relationship with neighboring countries, criminality in the society etc.

Secularity is a prerequisite for freedom. Fact. Religion can not guarantee you freedom from religion or rather, freedom from itself. Only a secular country can guarantee you freedom from religion, of religion and full human rights.

The peace index is not useless.




Furthermore, only 15% of the 72% go to church. Furthermore the fgure for christians in new zealand is not 72%, it is the people that believe in God. Christians in New Zealand are about 50%

Image123:
Like i told you, peace is relative. Anyone can pull up data and links on the internet to support his/her positions. i'll give you 3 links showing there is some form of crises going on in your hero countries. Iceland(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932012_Icelandic_financial_crisis), New Zealand (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/13813236/nz-journalism-in-crisis/), and Japan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12726297). The point is that they are also facing their own troubles, and nobody is spared from trouble because you stop going to church or believing in God. They sure die in these countries too, they have prisons, murderers, sick people, mental homes, people who commit suicide etc. So again, peace is relative. Peace involves tranquility, law and order, freedom from war. But it also involves the individual persons, your body, your mental state, your spiritual state and your eternal state. i'm in Nigeria, and i'm certqain that i enjoy more peace than many in japan. Many rich men and powerful people all over the world claim to believe in God. It is not their religiousity or secularity that brings them peace.

Image123: you must be dunce headed to think that religion is the cause of all your problems and secularism the solution to it. i don't have the time nor desire for useless arguments.you can go present them data arguments to your parents and relatives.

Secularism is a place to start, secularism does not guarantee peace but i is necessary for a peaceful nation.

Image123:
What is secularism and what is religion? i suspect that we have different views on the definitions.

logicboy:

We both know what they mean.

Image123:
What do they mean to you? The picture you are painting is that people should stop serving God or gods and things will become better. Is that secularism to you?

logicboy:

No, that is not what I said. The picture that I am painting is that human beings are less divided and more peaceful where there is less focus on religion. If your God is so great why is it that the best countries in the world are secular?

Image123:
yea yea, like in the communist world, very great point you have there all to yourself, people must be jealous.
I don't get your index for the best countries in the world. apart from islamic countries, most other countries would claim secularity including nigeria, usa, england, germany. My God is not just so great dearie, He is the greatest of anything that has life.

logicboy:

Nigeria is not secular. Epic fail.


Communism itself can be described as a religion

Image123:
can be? you're not a very serious person. define secular.

Image123: @logicboy
Secularism is the principle of [b]separation between government institutions and the persons mandated to represent the State from religious institutions and religious dignitaries.[/b]

This position is supported by christianity and by the Bible.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
The Bible asks christians to cooperate with and be subject to the government as much as they do not tell us to disobey God. It operates a separation from the 'world', yet an accomodating stance. That is secularism defined.
Secularism involves the right to freedom from governmental imposition of religion upon the people , political decisions should be unbiased by religious influence. Nigeria fits into this class. We operate freedom of religion, and a right to vote and be voted for irrespective of your religion. We currently have a president who says his religion is christianity, and a vice president who says he is muslim by religion. There is no country that does not have religious people, and Nigeria has a secular constitution.The nigerian law protects the rights of religious minorities. How oucan say nigeria is not secular baffles those who don't know better.

@OP
OF COURSE THATS THE REASON!!!!!!!!
what do you think people in African churches pray to every sunday? yep, wealth! the churches got such a strong hold on their miserable minds that many would give their last $$$ on sunday, while going home with an empty stomach. the sad part is that most of them would attribute any good deed in their lives to that church, while quickly saying that the ones who succeeded in life (while not going to any churches) are into money rituals......meanwhile pastor is traveling the world with private jets etc!

i would be even as far as saying that CHURCHES/RELIGION IS PART OF THE REASON FOR THE DOWNFALL OF AFRICA.