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| Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Dorcasde(f): 5:46am On Nov 20, 2007 |
Fellows, please find attached an article on BIBLE ACCOUNTS THAT SUGGEST REINCARNATION. Wishing you a joyful reading!
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| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Nobody: 7:40am On Nov 20, 2007 |
my conclusion of the article? Full of heresy, extrapolation of scriptures to fit human reasoning, misrepresentation of biblical truth and a lie of the enemy. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by dafidixone(m): 2:54pm On Nov 28, 2007 |
Fellows, please find attached an article on BIBLE ACCOUNTS THAT SUGGEST REINCARNATION. Wishing you a joyful reading! Why not come up with your own opinion instead of quoting people.  |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Dorcasde(f): 3:00pm On Nov 28, 2007 |
dafidixone: Simply look away if you're not OK with my post, it's not for everybody. Peace! |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by ajadrage: 2:01pm On Dec 03, 2007 |
Your reference in itself puts a lie to the topic of your post, sorry  |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by ThoniaSlim(f): 2:07pm On Dec 03, 2007 |
look miss poster, this is a romance section not a religion section. we do not discuss religion here, we discuss romance. so next time, look at the section before posting. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Dorcasde(f): 2:52pm On Dec 03, 2007 |
ThoniaSlim: I think you're lost! May you find your path to the Romance Section. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by ThoniaSlim(f): 2:53pm On Dec 03, 2007 |
Amen, miss religious pretend |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Dorcasde(f): 2:55pm On Dec 03, 2007 |
ajadrage: I like your signature ' The heart of mankind is inherently incapable of self guidance '. All I will add is, intuitively seek for guidance from ABOVE and you shall find the TRUTH. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by ajadrage: 7:30pm On Dec 03, 2007 |
The question to ask is "what is the truth?". If you can reasonably answer this question then the next thing to ask yourself is "does everything that exists above the realm of mankind show the way to this truth? |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by mnwankwo(m): 8:11pm On Dec 03, 2007 |
It is always the best to explain things like reincarnation based on the Grail Message and your own personal recognition rather rather than citing biblical verses. 1 Like |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Dorcasde(f): 12:49am On Dec 04, 2007 |
m_nwankwo: Thanks! The title of this post is ''Bible Accounts that Suggest Reincarnation''. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Kobojunkie: 1:04am On Dec 04, 2007 |
Is there a particular verse in there that ACTUALLY alludes to this idea of yours?? @Dorscade. I went through the so called verses that you say SUGGEST reincarnation but not a single one if read in context does that. Infact, even reading them as is, I still do not see it @Dorscade. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by justcool(m): 4:22am On Dec 04, 2007 |
I've read the attached page. The writer makes a convincing case. The Biblical verses he quoted, if understood very well, actually suggests reincarnation. He makes a very good point in the paragraph - "Who Do Men Say that I am?" How could the Jews have thought Jesus was John the Baptist or Elijah, both of who were already dead. Either (1) that they believed that Jesus was the reincarnate of John the Baptist or Elijah; (2) Or that they believed that Jesus was John the Baptist or Elijah that returned from the grave. The second is not probable since they knew that Jesus was born, and did not just appear from the dead. Therefore, the fact that they thought Jesus was Elijah or one of the dead prophets, suggests that they believed in reincarnation. The thing with the Bible is that you see what you want to see in it. You won't see what you don't want to see even if it is written in letters of flame. Moreover, your inner maturity will always interfere with your interpretation of any verse you find in the Bible. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Kobojunkie: 4:26am On Dec 04, 2007 |
Hold up. Some of the jews believed the Pharisees were holy, what has what some of them believed to do with the actual message?? Can you please pick the very first verse posted in that article and explain to me how it speaks of reincarnation?? I would love to see what you say you see |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Dorcasde(f): 5:14am On Dec 04, 2007 |
Justcool, thanks for your further clarification on this subject. Kobojunkie, Justcool has shed more light on your concern and it’s of no use going round concentric circles. However, I would like to add that the early Gnostics – Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Saint Jerome, and many others – believed that they had lived before and would again. In A.D. 325 the Roman emperor Constantine the Great and Helena, his mother, erased references to reincarnation in the New Testament and the Second Council of Constantinople declared reincarnation a heresy in A.D. 553. They thought this would weaken the growing power of the Church by giving humans too much time to seek their salvation. The proper way to seek for spiritual knowledge is to do it without prejudice. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by justcool(m): 5:46am On Dec 04, 2007 |
Kobojunkie: You asked two questions. Here are my answers: (1) The fact that the some of the Jews at the time of Jesus believed in reincarnation goes to show that the idea of reincarnation is not just a school of thought borrowed from eastern cults. Reincarnation should not be alien to Christians, since some of the ancient Jews, from whom the Christians derived Christianity believed in it. Dorcasde is right about the council of Constantinople. You can also research on the Council of Nicea 325 AD. (2) The writer used the first Biblical verse in his article to prove that the fact that an idea does not receive a complete explanation in the Bible does not mean that the idea is wrong. For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully , ( I Corinthians 13: 9 - 12 ). Revelations are given to people based on their spiritual maturity. Giving a spiritually immature parson everything about spirituality at once will be tantamount to eating more than your body can digest and assimilate, which is dangerous and can lead to death. Paul knew this, which was why he wrote the above verses, he knew that as people matured spiritually, God would reveal more to them. Therefore, the fact that Jesus did not spend too much time teaching reincarnation or that reincarnation is not elaborated in the Bible does not mean that reincarnation is false. Remember, Jesus being a part of God and the perfect teacher would not give his students more than they could digest. He only gave them what they needed most at that time, knowing that if they hold on to it and mature, later everything will be added unto them. Hence, Jesus said: "I have yet many things to tell you, but you cannot bear them now. Howbeit, when the Spirit of Truth is come, he will guide you into all truth; (John 16:12) |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Dorcasde(f): 5:51am On Dec 04, 2007 |
Justcool WELL SAID!!! |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by lafile(m): 10:43am On Dec 04, 2007 |
Dorcasde said: In A.D. 325 the Roman emperor Constantine the Great and Helena, his mother, erased references to reincarnation in the New Testament And Justcool replied: Dorcasde is right about the council of Constantinople. You can also research on the Council of Nicea 325 AD. The Council of Nicaea was called primarily for one reason and one reason only. Arius a priest in Alexandria was propagating a doctrine that denied the deity of Jesus. His writings were very popular and was gaining ground. This was contrary to what Christians believed and took 'for granted' - That Jesus was the same as the Father i.e. God. The controversy dragged on for long until finally all bishops were invited to Nicaea a central place in what is today Turkey to deliberate. After discussions and reading from Arius' writing, a vote was taken. Only two people voted for Arius. After the Arian Controversy was resolved, the bishops took the opportunity to take decisions on some other minor issues non of which bothered on doctrine. NO WHERE WAS A DECISION TAKEN TO AMMEND THE NEW TESTAMENT TO DENY RE-INCARNATION. The Books of the New testament was already wide spread all over Asia Minor and East/Central Europe. There was no way ammendments could be made. Because people (mention was made of Gnostics) believed in Re-Incarnation doesnt make it true. Gnostics believed that matter was inherently evil and spirit inherently good. It doesn't mean its true. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Kobojunkie: 10:10pm On Dec 04, 2007 |
justcool: Let me just say this. All you typed up there is you trying to tell me what to believe but not you explaining or answering my question at all. Some Jews believed a whole lot of things that are not included in the Christian belief or idea today. NOT ALL jews believed in Reincarnation so your assertion that Reincarnation is a part of Christian doctrine because according to you some Jews believed it, is fallacy. You know there is a difference between explaining a subject and telling someone what to believe?? I ask that you take the verse as is and explain how that verse speaks of reincarnation. Please note the meaning of the word reincarnation. I will wait to see your reply re·in·car·na·tion (rn-kär-nshn) n. 1. Rebirth of the soul in another body. 2. A reappearance or revitalization in another form; a new embodiment: reincarnation - embodiment in a new form (especially the reappearance or a person in another form); "his reincarnation as a lion" avatar, embodiment, incarnation - a new personification of a familiar idea; "the embodiment of hope"; "the incarnation of evil"; "the very avatar of cunning" |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by justcool(m): 10:58pm On Dec 04, 2007 |
lafile said: lafile: My brother, you made a very bold statement above! But have you studied all the ideas that was discussed in the council of Nicea. It was a very elaborate council, involving bishops from different corners of the earth and all their divergant opinions on the nature of Christ. From your post, you probably read a summery of the council and felt bold enough make assertions that you are not very sure of. Be carefull with what you say because you will answer for it one day. I personally cannot tell you that I know all that was discussed in the council because I was not there, but I can tell you that I have seen reports from historians that included reincarnation as the one of the ideas dismissed during the council. The major issue in the Council was the nature of Christ. Some believed He was God, some believed He was just a man, and some believed that he was a reincarnate. Please read more on the council of nicea, talk to historians! Read this qoute: "Nicea, nevertheless, marked the beginning of the end of the concepts of both preexistence, reincarnation, and salvation through union with God in Christian doctrine. It took another two hundred years for the ideas to be expunged." http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/reincarnation/council.htm lafile said: lafile: I didn't authenticate the doctrine of reincarnation just because some of the ancient Jews believed in it. I said that the doctrine of reincarnation should not be alien to Christians. It is an early Christian doctrine, and you proved me right by giving the name of an early Christan sect -- the Gnostics. All I was trying to say is that todays Christians should cease to regard it just an eastern school of taught. They should consider it and not just disregard it as unbiblical. I personally have examined the doctrine of reincarnation and found it to be true. You cannot explain that God is justice if you don't believe in reincarnation. Life would be very unjust if reincarnation is not real. In it lies the Justice and love of God. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Kobojunkie: 11:12pm On Dec 04, 2007 |
Sure it is not alien, and please do not for one minute believe that those who do not subscribe to that ideology,as you now do have not researched it themselves but still find it not of the christian faith. That is far from the case. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by lafile(m): 2:35pm On Dec 05, 2007 |
@Justcool Thanks for your reply. I read thru quite a bit of informationon the first council of nicaea. None of us was there so none of us can categorically say what was discussed. However, to say that all references to re-incarnation were expunged from the new testament at the council of nicaea, is beyond my understanding. Theres nothing in the nicaean creed or reports and writings concerning the council that alludes to that. Re-Incarnation is not alien to anybody - christian or not. However to say it was at anytime a christian doctrine is wrong. Gnostics were at no time a christian sect. Paul wrote against them many times. That they accepted re-incarnation does not make it a christian doctrine. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Kobojunkie: 2:44pm On Dec 05, 2007 |
lafile: My Thoughts exactly. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by mnwankwo(m): 3:52pm On Dec 05, 2007 |
Justcool just summed up in the last paragraph of his most recent submission on why he believes in reincarnation. I agree with him for reincarnation is a manifestation of the justice and love of God. However those who have not sensed that they have been on earth several times as human beings are entitled to their views. If however opponents of reincarnation have serious concern about its validity, they can raise it and it will be addressed in the sense of the love and justice of God. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Kobojunkie: 3:58pm On Dec 05, 2007 |
m_nwankwo: uumm, If you bothered to read my post at all, that happens to be what I am doing. Explain how reincarnation has to do with the manifestation of the justice and love of God. How ?? |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by mnwankwo(m): 4:47pm On Dec 05, 2007 |
A human spirit can only reincarnate in a human body and not in an animal or some other bodies. We are permited to be on earth to experience the laws of God so that it is clearly and unshakeably engraved in our spirit. It is an act of love that we are given the oppurtunity to experience the laws of God and turn it into deeds. The laws of God are simple and yet its manifestations are diverse such that a human spirit that wants to serve God need several earth lifes to learn the will of God and make it come to life. Thus the first purpose of reincarnation is for human soul to have enough time to mature to the recognition of God. The physical body has a short life span which is not enough for the experiencing of the soul, hence the re-embodiment of a new physical body, the so called reincarnation. It is in the sense of justice of God because earthly seeds can only be reaped on earth. Thus what a man sows through his earthly actions, he will reap the reward here on earth. The love of God give human spirits fresh oppurtunities to correct their errors or fall deeper. A student who fails an exam is given a fresh oppurtunity to retake the course and pass. If he learns from the experience of his first failure, he will be able to pass but if not he will continue to fail until he is expelled from the school for he has shown himself incapable of being a student or scholar. Therefore it is love of God that gives human beings the opportunity to repeat classes. Thus the second purpose of reincarnation is the chance to repent from our sins and be human beings as God wants us to be. If we only live once, then it is lacking in love to condem a human spirit to everlasting hellfire when he was not given a second chance. If we live once, then it is lack of love and justice for people to be born with genetic diseases and other handicaps. If we live once, then it is not just for a good man to suffer since he is reaping what he has not sown. If we live once, then where will babies that die immediately after birth go. They willnot go to helll for they have not commited any sin nor will they go to heaven because they have not got the oppurtunity to learn and live in accordance to the laws of God. In this connection, you cannot pass or fail an exam you have not taken. These apparent parodoxes can only be resolved when a man recognises that he has been on earth several times and is not innocent as many will like to believe. We reap what we sow. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Kobojunkie: 8:38pm On Dec 05, 2007 |
Ok.Thanks for explaining your personal take on the topic. Can you now go a step further and tell me what Jesus said on this issue. Did Jesus preach this at all?? |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by ajadrage: 8:55pm On Dec 05, 2007 |
The very words of master Jesus clearly contradicts any belief of whatever sort of reincarnation. The very fulcrum on which a follower of Christ shows his/her faith is a belief in a resurrection after this present system of things must have passed away. When a good friend of his died, he openly wept even as the sister of the late friend professed a belief in the resurrection of the dead on the last day (John 11:23). Even he confirmed that he was the resurrection and the life before proceeding to raise Lazarus from the dead. This event occured in the very glare of even the local promoters of false religion at the time, both those that believed in a ressurection (Pharisees) and those that did not (Sadducees). When Lazarus rose, he neither mentioned as a part of his four day death experience a blissful heaven, a burning hell nor a preparation for life in another human form (reincarnation) because had it not been for Jesus's miracle, it is appointed unto man once to die and after death the judgement. In all rational reasoning, reincarnation does not conform with the words of scripture which says "all those in the tombs will hear his (Jesus Christ) voice and come out." (John 5:28). Does that mean that a man who had reincarnated say two times would be resurrected with two different bodies? I doubt. . . The belief in reincarnation is a hearty laugh |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by mnwankwo(m): 10:04pm On Dec 05, 2007 |
@Kobojunkie I know that Jesus the son of God preached about reincarnation. The source of my knowlege is however not the bible. Therefore I willnot quote biblical verses to buttress my persuation. If any person have any objection to the points I raised, then I will offer answers and we discuss. @ Ajadrage I have not said that reincarnation conform to the words of the bible. I have made my position clear that I do not use the bible to buttress my convictions. I simply state that reincarnation is according to the laws of God and in it lies the oppurtunity for repentance and redemption for those who want to. I have personally seen and continue to see people who have died and their is nothing mysterious about it. It is as simple as seing the daylight with your physical eye. Jesus resurrected Lazurus and that is a fact and within the laws of God. It is appointed unto man to die once refers to spiritual death not the physical death. Indeed if we follow your argument, then Lazurus was resurrected and he must have died another physical death since Lazurus is no more living on earth today. Indeed even in the present time, their are many authentic cases of people who rose from the dead. Thus the miracle of the rise from the dead still happen even in the present time.Some of these people live for some years and later died another physical death. Thus in the present time, some people have already died more than once showing that that statement does not refer to the physical death. Well you are entitled to your belief but the physical body is material and no spirit which is an entitely different species will arise from it. Matter cannot give rise to the spiritual, neither can the spiritual be transformed into matter or something physical. The physical body decays and returns to the basic elements and the elements get recycled in nature. Thus the bodies of dead men and women have decomposed and become substrates for myriads of ther species including plants, microbes etc, The physical body is purely material, it is a cloth used by the spirit when the spirit is experiencing on earth. As long as the spirit still inhabits the body, then it is alive but once the spirit departs as in physical death, the physical body ceases to be alive because it has no motion initself. It is only temporarily animated by the inhabiting human spirit. Therefore the resurrection does not refer to physical bodies but to non physical bodies of which there are many depending on the plane at which the human spirit is experiencing. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by Kobojunkie: 10:16pm On Dec 05, 2007 |
The idea of spiritual enlightenment comes from no other religion but the buddhist religion which happens to predate christianity. The poster claimed there are bible accounts suggesting reincarnation which is why we asked of Bible references to this claim and tried to understand where Christ himself ever preached this. @m_nwankwo. |
| Re: Bible Accounts That Suggest Reincarnation. by mnwankwo(m): 10:32pm On Dec 05, 2007 |
@Kobojunkie, Thanks. You made a fair point and those who want to use the bible to buttress the concept of reincarnation can go ahead. I clearly defined what I mean by reincarnation. It is impossible for a human being to reincarnate as a vegetable, elephant, donkey, minerals etc. A human being can only reincarnate in another human body. I donot draw my knowlege from oriental teachings including the budhist religion. I draw from the Grail Message. 1 Like |
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