What is the symbolism of Akufe and Abuba ugo in the above photograph?.

And they said Igbos have no king

Ileke-IdI:
And they said Igbos have no king

At a time the Israelites had no kings, and they demanded to have one like other nations around them.
But in the case of Ndigbo, at first there were Kings, later Kingship was abolished for ages till the coming of the Europeans.
As it is now and ever shall be Ndigbo have Kings.

Andre Uweh:
At a time the Israelites had no kings, and they demanded to have one like other nations around them.
But in the case of Ndigbo, at first there were Kings, later Kingship was abolished for ages till the coming of the Europeans.
As it is now and ever shall be Ndigbo have Kings.

. . .lmao! Andre, can you share why they were abolished for ages?

Ileke-IdI:
And they said Igbos have no king

The term is "Igbo enweghi Eze" meaning: the Igbo nation as a whole has no king. In other words, no one man rules all of the Igbo. It doesn't mean that certain groups didn't have their own monarchs. However, most of these mushroom Eze/Igwe that we see today were installed by the British.

Dudu_Negro:

. . .lmao! Andre, can you share why they were abolished for ages?

The reason why in most parts of Igboland, nobody was allowed to ascend Ezeship was to avoid tyranny. There were Ezeship positions which nobody occupied because the conditions were too high. One of the conditions is that the would be Eze must pay the debt of all men in the village. It also included redeeming those in slavery. The debt willl not be paid back. Who had that kind of money to achieve all this?. Even if the debts were paid, how much will be left for the person to cook for the entire village for 21 market days before a coronation feast?.
WE ARE WISE.

Odumchi,

Based on your last response, it would follow naturally then to support the claim by people who, though they speak Igbo, say they are not culturally and customarily of Igbo stock.

Andre,

Kingdoms are expensive to run. This is why the people are taxed by their Kings. To double or triple the tax and wealth coming to the throne, a King will expand territory and gain new tributaries. Why did these Igbo Kings fold up their thrones than expand their kingdom?

Dudu_Negro: Odumchi,

Based on your last response, it would follow naturally then to support the claim by people who, though they speak Igbo, say they are not culturally and customarily of Igbo stock.

I don't know what you're talking about here. All I said was that the Igbo nation as a whole was never governed by any one government, council, or monarch.

Dudu_Negro:

Andre,

Kingdoms are expensive to run. This is why the people are taxed by their Kings. To double or triple the tax and wealth coming to the throne, a King will expand territory and gain new tributaries. Why did these Igbo Kings fold up their thrones than expand their kingdom?

That's exactly the type of government that the Igbo didn't have. Most of the Igbo lived in republican communities ruled by a council of elders/chiefs that regulated things like order/law, infrastructure, and trade.

These communities coexisted peacefully (for the most part) and followed the motto "live and let live"; they never sought to annex each other. This is the reason why no one monarch ever came to rule the entire Igbo nation.

I also want to inform some of us that inspite of the "warrant chief" system that the white man introduced that almost destroyed the structure that was already on the ground when they arrived the Igbos still maintained their ancient "Priest King"(Eze Ani) and the "council of elders"(Ndi Ichie); However,the Priest Kings has been relegated to the role of keeping only the traditional obligations including faring for the deities and this position is hereditary....We call these "Eze Ani" the "True King"......Most of the traditional festivals,rituals of the town is presided over by the Eze Ani....They are still very much revered but the Igwes(warrant chiefs) are more famous....Its important to know these as we move forward.....I still think we should revert to the old system and give the Eze Ani their rightful place and give them the same glamour that is accorded to these warrant chiefs and ABOLISH the warrant chief system,afterall the Ezeani was ancient and hereditary which makes it more original.

Umu Igbo ekeneem unu rinne!

Dudu_Negro: Odumchi,

Based on your last response, it would follow naturally then to support the claim by people who, though they speak Igbo, say they are not culturally and customarily of Igbo stock.

Andre,

Kingdoms are expensive to run. This is why the people are taxed by their Kings. To double or triple the tax and wealth coming to the throne, a King will expand territory and gain new tributaries. Why did these Igbo Kings fold up their thrones than expand their kingdom?

Its hard to oppress an Igboman nor humble the ordinarilly; We dont bow to a human being thats why every single Igbo man doesnt depend on anybody and want to be wealthy.....Every single Igboman is a king in his own right,hence its impossible to recruit men,set up an army to go intimidate,extort money,force ppl to pay homage nor accept and treat an ordinary human being as a king......I mean your Oba is an ordinary human being yet you worship them as if they are some gods...We Igbos dont play that shit.....why will I go and become a guard,matchet wielding soldier nor a worker for the Oba when I can work hard,become the richest man in my town,take the wealthiest Ozo title and earn a natural respect from my ppl.....For the fact some Igbo towns dont have authoritative monarchy doesnt stop us from having the most beautiful culture and traditional regalia in west Africa!!!! If you think am being boastful post your pictures lets see!!!!

Go jumb into Osun river or learn how to respect the Igbos because we can only get better!!

Umu-Igbo bu ODENJINJI! !!!

Odenigbo Aroli: I also want to inform some of us that inspite of the "warrant chief" system that the white man introduced that almost destroyed the structure that was already on the ground when they arrived the Igbos still maintained their ancient "Priest King"(Eze Ani) and the "council of elders"(Ndi Ichie); However,the Priest Kings has been relegated to the role of keeping only the traditional obligations including faring for the deities and this position is hereditary....We call these "Eze Ani" the "True King"......Most of the traditional festivals,rituals of the town is presided over by the Eze Ani....They are still very much revered but the Igwes(warrant chiefs) are more famous....Its important to know these as we move forward.....I still think we should revert to the old system and give the Eze Ani their rightful place and give them the same glamour that is accorded to these warrant chiefs and ABOLISH the warrant chief system,afterall the Ezeani was ancient and hereditary which makes it more original.

Umu Igbo ekeneem unu rinne!

In my area, i think the whole Eze's(warrant chiefs) are nothing but ceremonial head becuse it is not part of our tradition/culture the British force it on us inform of warrant chiefs it was after colonial rule we borrow some tradition from our neighbour's inwhich we change the name from warrant chief to Eze and the area i come from the custodian of our culture/tradition are the Amaala followed by Nnadi inwhich the Eze is also a member.

Odenigbo Aroli: I also want to inform some of us that inspite of the "warrant chief" system that the white man introduced that almost destroyed the structure that was already on the ground when they arrived the Igbos still maintained their ancient "Priest King"(Eze Ani) and the "council of elders"(Ndi Ichie); However,the Priest Kings has been relegated to the role of keeping only the traditional obligations including faring for the deities and this position is hereditary....We call these "Eze Ani" the "True King"......Most of the traditional festivals,rituals of the town is presided over by the Eze Ani....They are still very much revered but the Igwes(warrant chiefs) are more famous....Its important to know these as we move forward.....I still think we should revert to the old system and give the Eze Ani their rightful place and give them the same glamour that is accorded to these warrant chiefs and ABOLISH the warrant chief system,afterall the Ezeani was ancient and hereditary which makes it more original.

Umu Igbo ekeneem unu rinne!

Your idea is good but I don't think it is realistic. Your idea can be likened to suggesting that Nigeria should hand over to traditional leaders instead of elites as The British usurped the traditional leaders but handed over to nationalist when they left. Ndigbo have moved on. The Ezes/Obis/Igwes have come to stay just as in other lands.Udo diri gi.

odumchi:

I don't know what you're talking about here. All I said was that the Igbo nation as a whole was never governed by any one government, council, or monarch.



That's exactly the type of government that the Igbo didn't have. Most of the Igbo lived in republican communities ruled by a council of elders/chiefs that regulated things like order/law, infrastructure, and trade.

These communities coexisted peacefully (for the most part) and followed the motto "live and let live"; they never sought to annex each other. This is the reason why no one monarch ever came to rule the entire Igbo nation.

Odumchi, thanks for the clarification.

Aroli, mechionu! yeye person

ahhhh, ndigbo always full of contradictions.

odumchi:
These communities coexisted peacefully (for the most part) and followed the motto "live and let live"; they never sought to annex each other. This is the reason why no one monarch ever came to rule the entire Igbo nation.

i wonder what happened to the "live and let live" mantra when them aro igbos sold off fellow igbos into slavery and annexed their villages.

Odenigbo Aroli:

I mean your Oba is an ordinary human being yet you worship them as if they are some gods...We Igbos dont play that shit.....

yet u worship a self-proclaimed king of the jews, jesus? and a vast majority of ur people who are catholics worship his mother mary. but i guess they were not ordinary human beings.

but unlike jesus the self-proclaimed king of the jews who never ruled over any real kingdom apart from the fairy tale one "heaven" u are promised after death, shango and ogun actually ruled over great kingdoms and deserved to be edified by their people.

why will I go and become a guard,matchet wielding soldier nor a worker for the Oba when I can work hard,become the richest man in my town,take the wealthiest Ozo title and earn a natural respect from my ppl.....

www.nairaland.com/attachments/715188_king_making_jpg6e4718c28f2114b811968261aecc9a47

so what is that old man doing beside ur eze? funny.

#%&@:
ahhhh, ndigbo always full of contradictions.
i wonder what happened to the "live and let live" mantra when them aro igbos sold off fellow igbos into slavery and annexed their villages.

The Aro didn't annex anybody. The reason why the Aro sold of other people (not only Igbo) is very complicated and is a result of various religious, economic, political, and social factors (and of course, the European demand for slaves).

#%&@:

yet u worship a self-proclaimed king of the jews, jesus? and a vast majority of ur people who are catholics worship his mother mary. but i guess they were not ordinary human beings.

unlike jesuse the self-proclaimed king of the jews who never ruled any real kingdom apart from the fairy tale u are promised after death, shango and ogun actually ruled over great kingdoms and deserved to be edified by their people.

I'm a Catholic and we pray to Mary; we don't worship her. Anyway, I believe that's a discussion best meant for the religion section.

odumchi:

The Aro didn't annex anybody. The reason why the Aro sold of other people (not only Igbo) is very complicated and is a result of various religious, economic, political, and social factors (and of course, the European demand for slaves).

so what happened to the village after selling the people into slavery? left the land to become a jungle? btw, i have read comments on here of how aro took over parts of ibibio land after killing their prince.

I'm a Catholic and we pray to Mary; we don't worship Mary. Anyway, I believe that's a discussion best meant for the religion section.

lol, really? so why do u have images of mary everywhere in the church and pray to her?

#%&@:

so what happened to the village after selling the people into slavery? left the land to become a jungle? btw, i have read comments on here of how aro took over parts of ibibio land after killing their prince.

I think I remember discussing this with you somewhere...

Anyway, the Aro Confederacy really only attacked groups that refused to do business with it. Once a settlement was raided or sacked, a portion of the populace would be sold and the community would then be forced to initiate diplomatic/trade relations with the Aro; the social/political structure of the people would remain untouched. The Aro weren't interested in creating an empire, rather they simply wanted to make money.

The land upon which Arochukwu is sitting was once apart of Ibibioland. However, that was nearly four hundred years ago; Arochukwu is now Igboland.

odumchi:

the community would then be forced to initiate diplomatic/trade relations with the Aro

and that is not "annexing"?

The land upon which Arochukwu is sitting was once apart of Ibibioland.

and that is not another example of "annexing"?

yet aro igbo did not annex anybody. ndigbo, so full of contradictions... and u guys are hella funny!

Odumchi, unless you plan on giving #%&@ a full historical expose, I see no reason why you should encourage his/her posting, from this point onward.

and is that because there is nothing more to say? live and lets live, yet u sold fellow igbos to slavery

u did not annex, yet u forced communities into trade and currently occupying a land that is not historically igbo?

u dont worship humans, yet u worship jesus and his mother mary?

ChinenyeN: Odumchi, unless you plan on giving #%&@ a full historical expose, I see no reason why you should encourage his/her posting, from this point onward.

Well said, bro.

#%&@:
and is that because there is nothing more to say? live and lets live, yet u sold fellow igbos to slavery

u did not annex, yet u forced communities into trade and currently occupying a land that is not historically igbo?

u dont worship humans, yet u worship jesus and his mother mary?

This is borderline derailment. If you wish to discuss this, create a different thread.

nah, it is not derailment coz i responded to comments about this thread. and why should i start a new thread for it? i dont care that much. and if u guys do not have better explanations or care enough to respond on this thread, then let it go. its no big deal anyway.

Aro never annexed any town,rather they raided towns in search of slaves and sold slaves for monitary purposes. Most of the times they will get in,capture their slaves and leave the town. They didnt nescessarily establish or forced a trade partnership with these towns they raided. One more thing;They were mostly independent merchants and was not working for some Eze....Aro operated a confederate setup...

About the Jesus and virgin mary; This is strictly a religion discussion....Catholics dont worship Virgin Mary but we respect her as our religion demands just like because of the mother of Jesus status.....Jesus christ is the son of God who performed numerious astonishing miracles and preached the gospel but we are not talking of religion here!! We are talking about king making.....I dont know what this guy problem is....Igbos dont do follow-follow....Go to the north,yoruba land,bini land and see how they obey every single order given by their monarchs!! Igbos will not tolerate that....We are reasonable ppl and will not jump just because the King said so but if you do that in bini the Oba will go to all the shrines in bini with his chiefs casting curses on you....We are liberated ppl and you must give us a concrete reason why we should accept your ideas.

Andre Uweh:
Your idea is good but I don't think it is realistic. Your idea can be likened to suggesting that Nigeria should hand over to traditional leaders instead of elites as The British usurped the traditional leaders but handed over to nationalist when they left. Ndigbo have moved on. The Ezes/Obis/Igwes have come to stay just as in other lands.Udo diri gi.

Andre nwanne,I will reply this very post extensively later...
I am busy now.

haha funny the way una don dey change mouth now now... from forced trade relations with communities to whatever is written up there. slaves were sold for monetary reasons by merchants all across the world so i don't see anything peculiar with what aro did. however aro raided villages of fellow igbos and sold them into slavery, so i wonder what happened to the live and let's live mantra when they were selling igbo men, women and children into slavery.

it is not a discussion about religion but u brought worshipping humans as gods into it? and when u are now reminded of the humans u worship u say it is not religious discussion. jesus did so many astonishing things during his time on earth, so did shango and ogun. you don't worship mary but in every catholic church u have images of mary u pray to.. and it is interesting to note that in every igbo catholic home i have visited, they always have a shrine with candles or coloured lights with the image of mary... what the fvck is the sh1t if not idol worshipping?

and whose fault is it that ndigbo do not have any figure of authority? and the obas do not hold absolute powers anyway, they have high ranking chiefs who always moderate their powers. and in so many cases chiefs have fallen out with the obas dat led to civil wars. even in contemporary benin, the esama of benin and the omo n'oba are not in good terms. so what the fvck are u talking about? abeg come back with a new story that will be full of contradictions.

#%&@:
haha funny the way una don dey change mouth now now... from forced trade relations with communities to whatever is written up there. slaves were sold for monetary reasons by merchants all across the world so i don't see anything peculiar with what aro did. however aro raided villages of fellow igbos and sold them into slavery, so i wonder what happened to the live and let's live mantra when they were selling igbo men, women and children into slavery.

it is not a discussion about religion but u brought worshipping humans as gods into it? and when u are now reminded of the humans u worship u say it is not religious discussion. jesus did so many astonishing things during his time on earth, so did shango and ogun. you don't worship mary but in every catholic church u have images of mary u pray to.. and it is interesting to note that in every igbo catholic home i have visited, they always have a shrine with candles or coloured lights with the image of mary... what the fvck is the sh1t if not idol worshipping?

and whose fault is it that ndigbo do not have any figure of authority? and the obas do not hold absolute powers anyway, they have high ranking chiefs who always moderate their powers. and in so many cases chiefs have fallen out with the obas dat led to civil wars. even in contemporary benin, the esama of benin and the omo n'oba are not in good terms. so what the fvck are u talking about? abeg come back with a new story that will be full of contradictions.

You are definitely trying to delay this thread....Your level of comprehension is very low or maybe you just dont wanna comprehend....Everything has been explained to you but you choose not to have a brain.....You need to exit this thread and dont come back!!

oh my, that was lamest excuse i have ever read.

u cannot falsify what u are and what others are not and present to the world wide web and expect it to go unchecked. so no shaking since u have nothing more to blab about, but i will be keeping sughu-sughu eye on the thread until u make a foolish and false statement that needs to checked.

#%&@:
oh my, that was lamest excuse i have ever read.

u cannot falsify what u are and what others are not and present to the world wide web and expect it to go unchecked. so no shaking since u have nothing more to blab about, but i will be keeping sughu-sughu eye on the thread until u make a foolish and false statement that needs to checked.

. . . I'm perched and watching too!

I don't know any ethnic group pf people anywhere in Africa that folded up a thriving Kingdom due to increased costs. When resources become an issue, the King and his warriors go on an imperial mission to expand and bring in more resources. The only tenable reason for a fold-up would be that the Igbo Kings were militarily weak and could not risk an expansion into the territories of more mighty Kings in their sorroundings. This will equally agree with why their history is empty of territorial conquests.

I agree and acknowledge that they have Kings now. . . but these are creations post dating European influence and not before as we are led to beliecve in this thread.

. . .anyway, back on my perch for now!

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing this 'ezeship' business end in my area.

@The palace of the Igwe.

ChinenyeN: I honestly wouldn't mind seeing this 'ezeship' business end in my area.

It seems that there are some corrupt Ezes in your area. The way forward is to seek for ways to uproot the corrupt Ezes and install the progressive ones rather than abolish the entire institution.
As for my area, our Ezes engage in awarding scholarships to their wards, sink bore-holes, donate block of classrooms to the local school, build town halls etc.

Andre, you misunderstand my post. Corrupt or not, I would have preferred that my people fought harder against did completely did away with the warrant chief institution, rather than going to go borrow external culture to transform warrant chiefs to "ezeship". I know I should take solace in the fact that the "Eze's" in my area are only ceremonial figureheads, but the fact that the "eze" culture has been so adopted is just "mmm" to me.