princekevo:

@ pator AIO,
If you are indeed a christian or a pastor, Am sure the spirit of God has departed from you jst as the case of Saul.
Is like i would start by giving you the definition of the word parables.
We are talking abt tithing and giving, you are quoting the parable of Jesus Christ( The parable of the kingdom of heaven) he gave to explain some thing different. If you ever study you would have known that every parable of Jesus christ had a specific meaning. [size=16pt]OMG!!! I cant stop rolling on the floor[/size]. Vs. 15 of this passage was still part of parable, you twisted again to suit your arguement. Vs 16 of was now the interpretation of the parable by Jesus to explain the specific lesson from the parable. 16" So the last shall be the first and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen (KJV).
Jesus used the parable to explain to us that not who start the race first shall arrive first, and also many like you were called but few were chosen. But here you are again using this innocent parable, to suit your arguement of banking a tenth of your incomes becoz is monetary and eating a tenth of mine with you at the end of the year, becoz my own income is beans, rice,garri, yam, cow. You wickedooh!!! pastor. Why not bring your own 1/10 which is monetary so that we can buy atleast, ports, gaz, other ingredients to cook my own portion of the tithe and a chair were we can sit to consume it. . And your like is by the side asking you to preach on. Am not suprised though coz the book of 2nd Timothy Forsaw and warned me against people like you and your followers in 2 Timothy 4:3
[b]For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.[b]

Are you epileptic as well?

What do you think that the levites and the strangers are to do with their tithes?  Aren't they going to eat it too?
You have made the statement that it is for supporting the work of God so you will have to furnish us with the bible verses that says bring your tithes for the support of God's work.  
Out of curiousity, what do you expect that the Temple staff, the scribes, singers etc are going to do with the Grain and New Wine that the levites bring into the storehouse.  

I have said it before, you should do away with that tittle pastor before God will be angry with you, if he is not already. You claim you are a pastor, but you dont even know what the genuine works of God are or probably you have problem with your understanding. The temple staff, scribe, singers etc in the house of God, what are they doing there? Is it not the work of God? So when these tight of tights are being giving to them for consumption, is it not used to support them that are doing the work of God? which is directly or indirectly supporting the work of God as the prist, singers, temple staffs and scribes will not minister to you with an empty stomach. This is simple reasoning with understanding  for God's sake, unless u want to come he start elaborating the works of God.
For example. If your are giving a child food in the morning,before he goes to school, afternoon when he comes back from school and night b4 he sleeps. Will it be wrong if i said your are supporting his/her studies?

Maybe you guys a limiting Gods work to what some Nigerian pastors are doing in Nigeria there in the name of Gods work, enriching themselve. Am not ignorant of their practices, but question here is that Shall we change the doctrin and principle of God jst becoz a man who suppose to represent him is doing something else? the answer is NO. The wod of God remains unchanged even if all the men of God on earth chosed to go their evil ways.

This prince must have forgotten that Temples are the Christians now as opposed to a place of worship under the law. Call these buildings Tabernacle, Temple, Chapel, or whatever you want but God lives in the Christian under Grace and not some man made building, get your stuff right "prince"

May God forgive the fake preachers!

princekevo:


I have said it before, you should do away with that tittle pastor before God will be angry with you, if he is not already. You claim you are a pastor, but you dont even know what the genuine works of God are or probably you have problem with your understanding. The temple staff, scribe, singers etc in the house of God, what are they doing there? Is it not the work of God? So when these tight of tights are being giving to them for consumption, is it not used to support them that are doing the work of God? which is directly or indirectly supporting the work of God as the prist, singers, temple staffs and scribes will not minister to you with an empty stomach. This is simple reasoning with understanding for God's sake, unless u want to come he start elaborating the works of God.
For example. If your are giving a child food in the morning,before he goes to school, afternoon when he comes back from school and night b4 he sleeps. Will it be wrong if i said your are supporting his/her studies?

Maybe you guys a limiting Gods work to what some Nigerian pastors are doing in Nigeria there in the name of Gods work, enriching themselve. Am not ignorant of their practices, but question here is that Shall we change the doctrin and principle of God jst becoz a man who suppose to represent him is doing something else? the answer is NO. The wod of God remains unchanged even if all the men of God on earth chosed to go their evil ways.

Take it easy prince. I sense frustration here. You just wont go far with your thoughts on tithing here. I advice you stop seeing yourself as jew with an ancestral origin that can be traced back to one the twelve tribes of israel. Please go back and study your bible again. And believe me consulting your pastor will not help.

@Zikkyy

So if we have the Levites today to take the tithe from the church strong room/vault, no problem then. This is based on the assumption that we (Christians) are required (by law) to render our tenths (you know we are not). I guess the way we practice tithing today negates the initial concept of tithe which was to provide for the needy as well as Levites required to work in the temple with no other means of livelihood.

Please sir, we have passed the stage of arguement, you can go back to read my previouse post.
From your comment on the bold. You should ask yourself, who where the levites. The Levite were the tribe of isreal, separated and chosed by God to take care of his tabernacle(pristhood).

Who are the today's levites? Anyone that is being chosen and anointed by God  to take care of his tabernacle( the prist).
We are not ignorant that many prist of today do not wok and there are some full time workers in the house of God, part of the tithes can support, jst as bible mentioned in Nehemiah 10:38-39
38 "A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God,  to the storerooms of the treasury. 39 The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay.
"We will not neglect the house of our God."
I think i have done enough justics to this thread, Am off, he who have ears let him hear what the spirit of God is talking to his church.

ogajim:

This prince must have forgotten that Temples are the Christians now as opposed to a place of worship under the law. Call these buildings Tabernacle, Temple, Chapel, or whatever you want but God lives in the Christian under Grace and not some man made building, get your stuff right "prince"

May God forgive the fake preachers!

A normal excuse for people like you to skip attend churches. Am the temple of God, God lives in me, righteosness is in the heart, God can hear me everywhere.etc.
Forgeting that even Jesus christ himself saw the need to visit the temple of God.

Zikkyy:

Take it easy prince. I sense frustration here. You just wont go far with your thoughts on tithing here. I advice you stop seeing yourself as jew with an ancestral origin that can be traced back to one the twelve tribes of israel. Please go back and study your bible again. And believe me consulting your pastor will not help.

Frustrated on what? Preaching the word of God? Listen, the only thing i would never be tired of is preaching his word and the truth. We are not tracing back our history to the 12 tribes isreal. But we are isrealites by adoption, as such we can claim all the promises he promised our father Abraham.
And Mind you, i dont teach what i learnt from any pastor, but from what i learnt directly from the bible, raw and undiluted.

Dude!

Jesus is our one and ONLY high PRIEST and we have been released from the LAW through his GRACE.

Tell your "pastors" to get real jobs, it is not like they can't work Monday through Friday like the rest of us, prepare the "Sermon" on Saturday and preach it on Sunday.

No need to try to steal in the name of the Lord (Jah as Max Romeo put it)

princekevo:

A normal excuse for people like you to skip attend churches. Am the temple of God, God lives in me, righteosness is in the heart, God can hear me everywhere.etc.
Forgeting that even Jesus christ himself saw the need to visit the temple of God.Frustrated on what? Preaching the word of God? Listen, the only thing i would never be tired of is preaching his word and the truth. We are not tracing back our history to the 12 tribes isreal. But we are isrealites by adoption, as such we can claim all the promises he promised our father Abraham.
And Mind you, i dont teach what i learnt from any pastor, but from what i learnt directly from the bible, raw and undiluted.

FYI Dude: I worship at a Church regularly and even "work" but won't succumb to fake doctrines, I will give offering and when possible, help out other folks instead of the unholy tithe preaching I sometimes sit through and no one has been "dumb" enough to confront me about this yet. Get your facts right before you start throwing stuff around.

princekevo:

@Zikkyy

Please sir, we have passed the stage of arguement, you can go back to read my previouse post.
From your comment on the bold. You should ask yourself, who where the levites. The Levite were the tribe of isreal, separated and chosed by God to take care of his tabernacle(pristhood).

You miss my point, the priest is only entitled to 1% of tithes (tenth of tenths).

princekevo:

@Zikkyy
Who are the today's levites? Anyone that is being chosen and anointed by God  to take care of his tabernacle( the prist).
We are not ignorant that many prist of today do not wok and there are some full time workers in the house of God, part of the tithes can support, jst as bible mentioned in Nehemiah 10:38-39
38 "A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God,  to the storerooms of the treasury. 39 The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay.
"We will not neglect the house of our God."
I think i have done enough justics to this thread, Am off, he who have ears let him hear what the spirit of God is talking to his church.

Your quote above indicates that only 1% of the Isrealites tithe is taken to the store room. I honestly don’t know why you want to elevate your pastor to the exalted position of church worker & not priest.

I don’t have a problem with anybody rendering a tenth to the church, and I am not here to stop you from giving cos I believe in giving myself. It’s the justification you provide that really upset some of us. Take my advice and go read your bible all over again. The requirement of tithing as practice by the Israelites is not for Christians, but it does not stop anybody from rendering a tenth. A good pastor deserves more than a tenth of your income if the need for him to have it does arise. Wishing you a Happy New Year 

This scripture is very applicable to those who twist God's word for their own greed, also very apt for the topic

Matthew 15:3-9:

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? 4 For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ 5 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ 6 In this way, you say they don’t need to honor their parents. And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,
8 ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.

@KunleOshob:

I think I start to understand your point from our last conversation now. The people you're talking to seem to believe any good that comes their way was called down by a MOG. I wonder how they ate, drank and woke up before they started worshiping that MOG.

On Tithing, the way I look at this is, okay, you ask me to pay tithes. Fine! Where to? Then I read the Word and combine the much misused Malachi with Jesus own definition of His brethren. We are to bring the Tithe into the House of the Lord. Then the Lord says those who fulfill His Word are His brethren and that when you fed the poor, you fed Him. Might seem simplistic, but does not this suggest His dwelling (house) is with these people, in the place where His work which HE defined i.e. helping the poor, fatherless, widows, lost etc, is done? You throw Melchizedek and Jacob at me and I ask you if I am not a fellow heir to Jesus? So bring your tithes to me too!

Might be me, but I think that from what I read, more "productive" work is currently being done by TB Joshua (never watched him or visited his ministry) than by the MOG's that move from their village to town and then to Lagos and now to the US. There's a street (Joyce B) off Ring road in Ibadan where, about 12 years ago, I counted 57 churches. On one street, mind you! Yet most of the ministries owned by these MOGs do not have a presence in villages where Ogun is freely worshiped or in the North to win what they claim are lost souls.

Tithes (if you insist they be paid) are meant for the Work of God. The work of God is feeding the poor, fatherless, widows and keeping His Word. That was what Jesus did. That was what the Apostles did! If you want to spread the Gospel, good for you. Do it off your own sweat. That is what the Apostles did and boasted openly about.

nuclearboy:


Might be me, but I think that from what I read, more "productive" work is currently being done by TB Joshua (never watched him or visited his ministry) than by the MOG's that move from their village to town and then to Lagos and now to the US. There's a street (Joyce B) off Ring road in Ibadan where, about 12 years ago, I counted 57 churches. On one street, mind you! Yet most of the ministries owned by these MOGs do not have a presence in villages where Ogun is freely worshiped or in the North to win what they claim are lost souls.

What?!! You mean that they don't preach the gospel in villages. That must be because they don't have airstrips for the MOGs to land their plane. Useless villagers. After going through all that effort to buy jet plane to facilitate the spreading of the word of God you'd think that the least that the villagers could do would be to meet them halfway by building an airstrip to allow the MOG to land his plane. But no, satan has bound those stuupid villagers so they won't do that. Now the MOGs can only fly to America and other major cities around the world. Shame.

@nuclearboy
Thanx for the comments, we seem to be in tune with each other as far as the will of christ is concerned. It is my prayer that God would open the minds and hearts of our christian brethen to see and understand the truth about his word.

@PastorAIO
The humour apart, but i think the issue on ground should be heart breaking to all true christians. It should not be a joking issue. The more painfull part of it is that people celebrate these MOGs the more they distort and manipulate the scriptures for their own greed and selfishness.

KunleOshob:

@nuclearboy
Thanx for the comments, we seem to be in tune with each other as far as the will of christ is concerned. It is my prayer that God would open the minds and hearts of our christian brethen to see and understand the truth about his word.

@PastorAIO
The humour apart, but i think the issue on ground should be heart breaking to all true christians. It should not be a joking issue. The more painfull part of it is that people celebrate these MOGs the more they distort and manipulate the scriptures for their own greed and selfishness.

It is indeed a serious matter, but levity is not that far removed from gravity. You fit take joke know who serious.

Truths are often aptly demonstrated by humour. For instance there is a technique called reductio ad absurdum.

Main Entry: re·duc·tio ad ab·sur·dum
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈdək-tē-ˌō-ˌad-əb-ˈsər-dəm, -ˈdək-sē-ō-, -shē-, -ˈzər-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Late Latin, literally, reduction to the absurd
Date: 1741
1 : disproof of a proposition by showing an absurdity to which it leads when carried to its logical conclusion
2 : the carrying of something to an absurd extreme

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reductio%20ad%20absurdum

The problem is people don't want to have responsibility for what happens to them. That is why they play "transference" and allow others to pray, think and decide for them. Easier to play the victim than to look yourself in the mirror, have you forgotten? And there's not much can be done about it when the "victim" has made up his mind.

But Kunle, are you sure there are no people who read, assess, decide and go away changed? So you ought not believe its in vain or be fatalistic about this issue. Last I heard, truth always wins.

So please laugh at Pastors post cos indeed, those villagers are really wrong (bloody sinners) for not building airports and having 7 star hotels to accommodate MOGS. Don't they know Jesus Himself spent all His days in absolute luxury and therefore, His Servants must have the best of the best of the best of everything? And of course, it was a mistake the Bible made when it stated Jesus lived a poor life. What it meant was that He took over Pilates Palace and lived out His life there in splendor with 72 ( ) virgins and a river of booze.

And thats why you, KunleOshob must pay tithes to the MOGs

nuclearboy:

But Kunle, are you sure there are no people who read, assess, decide and go away changed? So you ought not believe its in vain or be fatalistic about this issue. Last I heard, truth always wins.

I don't think it is in vain, if anything at all i have evidence that since i started my NL "ministry" of trying to expose fallacies in the way christianity is practised today and trying to get christians to return to christ, a good number of people have been impacted and they have at least changed their attitude. The beauty of internet is that once you post something it's going to be there indefintely and it would continue to circulate all over the world. Only last week someone brought to my notice a newspaper article written by me and published in the daily compass of November 29 this year titled "tithing is unscriptural". This was an article i had written two years ago and sent to some friends on the internet, i also had it posted on a couple of websites [including nairaland] i was suprised that two years later it was being published by a newspaper even without my knowledge and consent. But i did not protest as i know that the readers of the article in that paper would be blessed by it and some of them would be freed from the bondage and shackles of compulsary tithing being used to deceive them. Another news magazine[The news] had also published the article over a year ago. So all the efforts is not in vain the truth is being revealed and very soon when majority of the people are empowered with the knowledge of the truth, pastors would be put on the defensive in justifying this scam and it would also help to expose some of the false ones amongst them.

Glad to have confirmation its working

KunleOshob:

I don't think it is in vain, if anything at all i have evidence that since i started my NL "ministry" of trying to expose fallacies in the way christianity is practised today and trying to get christians to return to christ, a good number of people have been impacted and they have at least changed their attitude. The beauty of internet is that once you post something it's going to be there indefintely and it would continue to circulate all over the world. Only last week someone brought to my notice a newspaper article written by me and published in the daily compass of November 29 this year titled "tithing is unscriptural". This was an article i had written two years ago and sent to some friends on the internet, i also had it posted on a couple of websites [including nairaland] i was suprised that two years later it was being published by a newspaper even without my knowledge and consent. But i did not protest as i know that the readers of the article in that paper would be blessed by it and some of them would be freed from the bondage and shackles of compulsary tithing being used to deceive them. Another news magazine[The news] had also published the article over a year ago. So all the efforts is not in vain the truth is being revealed and very soon when majority of the people are empowered with the knowledge of the truth, pastors would be put on the defensive in justifying this scam and it would also help to expose some of the false ones amongst them.

Well Done Kunleoshob! What is remaining now is that there is a televised debate on the matter on National tv. If I had the funds I would sponsor such a production. Please spread this idea. If you know anyone that works in television or radio try suggesting it to them. Even if they don't do it, they might mention it to someone else who will do it. It doesn't matter if you are involved in the actual debate or not. The important thing is that the debate is had.

Pastor AIO:

Well Done Kunleoshob! What is remaining now is that there is a televised debate on the matter on National tv. If I had the funds I would sponsor such a production. Please spread this idea. If you know anyone that works in television or radio try suggesting it to them. Even if they don't do it, they might mention it to someone else who will do it. It doesn't matter if you are involved in the actual debate or not. The important thing is that the debate is had.

Given the weight of evidence against this tithing scam, i don't think any pastor would be bold enough to come up on national TV to defend it has he would only end up embarassing his or herself and either exposed to be incompetent or a complete fraud. Pastors feel more comfortable mounting the pulpit and spewing out what they like when they can't be challenged or asked to justify what they preach biblically. Asking them to justifying it in a public debate is another cup of tea entirely.

KunleOshob:

Given the weight of evidence against this tithing scam, i don't think any pastor would be bold enough to come up on national TV to defend it has he would only end up embarassing his or herself and either exposed to be incompetent or a complete fraud. Pastors feel more comfortable mounting the pulpit and spewing out what they like when they can't be challenged or asked to justify what they preach biblically. Asking them to justifying it in a public debate is another cup of tea entirely.

If the pastors won't do so themselves I'm sure one of their zealous followers will. Judging from how they won't concede here on nairaland I'm sure that they'll be happy to take it up.

Pastor AIO:

If the pastors won't do so themselves I'm sure one of their zealous followers will. Judging from how they won't concede here on nairaland I'm sure that they'll be happy to take it up.

You are right their over zealous followers would be eager to come and expose their stupidity thinking they are doing it to "serve" God. However their leaders who know better and have studied the bible better know it is purely based on scriptural manipulation which would be easily exposed in a public debate. If however an over zealous member gets embarrased in a public debate it would not count as the deluded penterascals would jsut assume he doesn't know the bible well hence his not being able to defend it adequately. Ideally what we need is one of their idols in the mould of Pastor Adeboye, bishop Oledepo, crook Oyakhilome, Matthew cAshimolowo e.t.c to be bold enough to come out and debate the issue in public. Which ever one of them is bold enough to come out and debate the issue in public would be thoroughly embarrassed and humilated based on scriptures as far as the topic are concerned. If this happens then the public would start having a re-think about it. But then again some of them are so established at this game of deception that even when scripture is glaringly against it all they need to tell their members is that the "holy spirit told them" and in Adeboye's case, he would say his "daddy in heaven" told him so and their followers would believe. How then do you debate such an issue when they would always resort to the un-verifiable when flawed.

These are issues

@Maven
Where have you been? Hope you ar enjoying your vacation in naija. Have a wonderful new year.

@ Kunle

True Talk,
Been trying to reach you for a while. Can you kindly send me you contact number to my email. Tosinbobo@yahoo.com. Need to have a chat with you. God Bless

please, i want clarification on WHERE IS THE HOUSE OF GOD, WHO IS A PRIEST IN THAT HOUSE and WHAT IS THE WORK OF GOD. All in relation to TITHES. Thanks.