Just in case any of you saw my previous post a while ago where I decided to learn Edo, here's a little background information: it is not possible to take an exam in Edo in my current location, and I need a language exam before I can move on to university. Yoruba, however, is available. So this means I'll have to put Edo on hold, and start learning Yoruba enough for a level 1 exam which is fairly simple.

So I have been looking around for available material in the language, and I found two very promising language software products, which I plan on buying. That along with a few books. However, the only thing that is really worrying, is the phonology. Of course, I don't know the language, so to me written Yoruba looks absolutely unreadable. But how hard is the phonology learn in reality, both written and orally, and do you guys have any tips?

I'm also looking into getting audio CDs, so I guess that will help.

Hello dear friend.
Hopefully, one partner can advise you. In my experience, unfortunately almost all the threads that deal with issues of the Yoruba end deserts. Several years ago, looking for contacts I was informed that it was developing a Yoruba language software.
Unfortunately, on that particular issue, it's all business, and that hinders development of language and cultural knowledge.
In my case, I do not give much importance to phonetics, since I live far away from Nigeria, and I have not to talk to Yoruba, but if I have interest in reading and writing in that language.
In the past, I contacted the University of London, in order to know if they would publish the English-Yoruba dictionary of R. Abraham, but they answered negatively. Thanks to the good will of a friend, I managed to get a photocopy of this voluminous book.
The great difficulty that I found, is the tendency to get more words forming a single. That puzzled who is learning a lot.
Moreover, it is a very descriptive language (one might say that is poetic).
I hope one brother Yoruba aid contribution.

Hello Starflux,

Check out http://www.learnyoruba.com/ The section on phonology(which you can reach from the home page by the way) is here: http://www.learnyoruba.com/phonology.htm

I suggest you peruse the whole site. It is very informative and very instructive. For when learning the Yoruba alphabet, click on the letter and you get the correct pronounciation. It also teaches some basic morphology amongst other topics.

Good luck in your linguistic adventures...

Odabo

Ptolomeus: Hello dear friend.
Hopefully, one partner can advise you. In my experience, unfortunately almost all the threads that deal with issues of the Yoruba end deserts. Several years ago, looking for contacts I was informed that it was developing a Yoruba language software.
Unfortunately, on that particular issue, it's all business, and that hinders development of language and cultural knowledge.
In my case, I do not give much importance to phonetics, since I live far away from Nigeria, and I have not to talk to Yoruba, but if I have interest in reading and writing in that language.
In the past, I contacted the University of London, in order to know if they would publish the English-Yoruba dictionary of R. Abraham, but they answered negatively. Thanks to the good will of a friend, I managed to get a photocopy of this voluminous book.
The great difficulty that I found, is the tendency to get more words forming a single. That puzzled who is learning a lot.
Moreover, it is a very descriptive language (one might say that is poetic).
I hope one brother Yoruba aid contribution.

Hello! Thanks for the reply.

I see you mention language software, there is actually one available: http://2speaklanguages.co.uk/2speak-yoruba-software/?gclid=CJPM6ffvkbECFSU3cgodcmnucw
But I see you. 20mill speakers you would expect more available material, sadly that isn't the case.

Currently I don't have any friends/contacts speaking Yoruba, but I might start looking on Nairaland if I'm lost. So yes, I hope it sorts out too.
The main reason I want to have a proper grasp of the phonetics, is that I believe that would make it far easier writing it. How are you supposed to write phonetics if you don't know the sounds? Unfortunately, it is a written exam I have to take, which means I need to know the phonetics of the language regardless. Other than that, if you don't intend to speak, I can see the why you don't put much time into it.
Shame they won't release that dictionary, I wonder why?

Thanks again for the reply, friend!

Africaman: Hello Starflux,

Check out http://www.learnyoruba.com/ The section on phonology(which you can reach from the home page by the way) is here: http://www.learnyoruba.com/phonology.htm

I suggest you peruse the whole site. It is very informative and very instructive. For when learning the Yoruba alphabet, click on the letter and you get the correct pronounciation. It also teaches some basic morphology amongst other topics.

Good luck in your linguistic adventures...

Odabo

Thanks Africaman! I've been on the site before, but I notice now how good it really is.

Thanks!

@ StarFlux
I regret not being able to help more. I wish I could. I am a student of Yoruba culture and traditions, and for me it is essential to understand certain texts.
I think the help of Africaman is very positive for both!
The problem I have is that I'm not fluent in English, and development of Yoruba with Spanish is still far away.

@ Africaman
Mó Juba!
Thank you very much for your input. I live thousands of miles from Nigeria, and is often difficult to find such collaboration.
I am eternally grateful.
Can you count on me to it as necessary.
Alaafia lai lai!

StarFlux: Hello! Thanks for the reply.

I see you mention language software, there is actually one available: http://2speaklanguages.co.uk/2speak-yoruba-software/?gclid=CJPM6ffvkbECFSU3cgodcmnucw
But I see you. 20mill speakers you would expect more available material, sadly that isn't the case.

Currently I don't have any friends/contacts speaking Yoruba, but I might start looking on Nairaland if I'm lost. So yes, I hope it sorts out too.
The main reason I want to have a proper grasp of the phonetics, is that I believe that would make it far easier writing it. How are you supposed to write phonetics if you don't know the sounds? Unfortunately, it is a written exam I have to take, which means I need to know the phonetics of the language regardless. Other than that, if you don't intend to speak, I can see the why you don't put much time into it.
Shame they won't release that dictionary, I wonder why?

Thanks again for the reply, friend!

Thanks Africaman! I've been on the site before, but I notice now how good it really is.

Thanks!

You're most welcome Starflux and it was a pleasure.

odabo.

Ptolomeus: @ StarFlux
I regret not being able to help more. I wish I could. I am a student of Yoruba culture and traditions, and for me it is essential to understand certain texts.
I think the help of Africaman is very positive for both!
The problem I have is that I'm not fluent in English, and development of Yoruba with Spanish is still far away.

@ Africaman
Mó Juba!
Thank you very much for your input. I live thousands of miles from Nigeria, and is often difficult to find such collaboration.
I am eternally grateful.
Can you count on me to it as necessary.
Alaafia lai lai!

Ptolomeus, it was a pleasure.
Here is a link to a Yoruba -> Portuguese dictionary, I think you speak spanish, but you might find it useful still.
Here is the link: http://glosbe.com/pt/yo/

For example, type in the Yoruba word for a house, "ile", it will produce the Portuguese translation. I hope you find it useful too.

Odabo.

Africaman: Ptolomeus, it was a pleasure.
Here is a link to a Yoruba -> Portuguese dictionary, I think you speak spanish, but you might find it useful still.
Here is the link: http://glosbe.com/pt/yo/

For example, type in the Yoruba word for a house, "ile", it will produce the Portuguese translation. I hope you find it useful too.

Odabo.

Dear friend!
The pleasure is mine!
I speak Spanish, but I also speak Portuguese!
Their contribution is really great ... This solves a long search I!
Dear friend ... believe me I appreciate very much your kindness!
Thank you.
You can count on me for everything that is necessary!
Do you have a friend in Uruguay!
A big hug!

Hello again, thanks for keeping the thread alive!
Now a question has come up. English is not my first language, so I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly:

The language is head-initial and as such qualifiers occur after the noun, which is the main element of the clause.

http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/grammar.html (I know the site gives an example, but I have to make sure).

Does this mean it should be qualifer first then noun (qualifier + noun): ibusun tiyin (bed yours (plural)), is this correct? Also, tiyin is plural form of your, and yin is singular? I have also seen tirc. What is more correct, yin or tirc, or are both used in different situations, or are they equal? Sorry for questions.

Also: check this site out guys, an amazing site with a lot of recordings of Yoruba: http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Yoruba

One more q: how do you pronounce tìrç? tire (with a falling tone)?

StarFlux: Hello again, thanks for keeping the thread alive!
Now a question has come up. English is not my first language, so I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly:

http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/grammar.html (I know the site gives an example, but I have to make sure).

Does this mean it should be qualifer first then noun (qualifier + noun): ibusun tiyin (bed yours (plural)), is this correct? Also, tiyin is plural form of your, and yin is singular? I have also seen tirc. What is more correct, yin or tirc, or are both used in different situations, or are they equal? Sorry for questions.

Also: check this site out guys, an amazing site with a lot of recordings of Yoruba: http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Yoruba

One more q: how do you pronounce tìrç? tire (with a falling tone)?

Hello Starflux,
I will try to answer your questions.

In Yoruba, the noun comes first before the qualifier, it is the other way round in English:

For example 'White Shirt' (qualifier + noun) translated into Yoruba will be 'Ewu Funfun' (noun + qualifier).

Can you see the difference ?

StarFlux: Hello again, thanks for keeping the thread alive!
Now a question has come up. English is not my first language, so I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly:

http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/grammar.html (I know the site gives an example, but I have to make sure).

Does this mean it should be qualifer first then noun (qualifier + noun): ibusun tiyin (bed yours (plural)), is this correct? Also, tiyin is plural form of your, and yin is singular? I have also seen tirc. What is more correct, yin or tirc, or are both used in different situations, or are they equal? Sorry for questions.

Also: check this site out guys, an amazing site with a lot of recordings of Yoruba: http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Yoruba

One more q: how do you pronounce tìrç? tire (with a falling tone)?

Hello Starflux,
I will try to answer your questions.

In Yoruba, the noun comes first before the qualifier, it is the other way round in English:

For example 'White Shirt' (qualifier + noun) translated into Yoruba will be 'Ewu Funfun' (noun + qualifier).

Note that 'White' -> 'Funfun'
and
'Shirt' -> 'Ewu'


Can you see how it works ? And also the difference between English order and Yoruba order ?

StarFlux: Hello again, thanks for keeping the thread alive!
Now a question has come up. English is not my first language, so I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly:

http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/grammar.html (I know the site gives an example, but I have to make sure).

Does this mean it should be qualifer first then noun (qualifier + noun): ibusun tiyin (bed yours (plural)), is this correct? Also, tiyin is plural form of your, and yin is singular? I have also seen tirc. What is more correct, yin or tirc, or are both used in different situations, or are they equal? Sorry for questions.

Also: check this site out guys, an amazing site with a lot of recordings of Yoruba: http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Yoruba

One more q: how do you pronounce tìrç? tire (with a falling tone)?

Hello Starflux,
To answer your other questions:


For the plurals we can have:

2)
a) 'Your Bed' -> 'Ibusun tire'. If the person speaking is the same age or older than the person he/she is speaking to, then we say Ibusun tire. It could be two people who are friends talking or a parent talking to a child or even a teacher talking to a student.

b) 'Your Bed' -> 'Ibusun tiyin'. If the person speaking is younger than the person he/she is speaking to. For example a child talking to her parent, a student to a teacher or a worker talking to their boss at work.

c) 'Your Bed' -> 'Ibusun tiyin'. When talking to more than one person regardless of age.


3) I believe 'tire' is pronounced with a rising tone, because it is a low tone followed by a middle tone.


I hope my explanation is clear.


Odabo.

Hello!

Thank you for this wonderful explanation. I get it now!

I'm still having issues with the tones. I looked at this video to learn the tones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfCjC5jXriw&list=FL9JIyRUJaEPccXtEpVhJ6wQ&index=14&feature=plpp_video
But it doesn't say anything about words with different sets of tones like: ológìnní (cat) how do you pronounce this? First rising, then falling and then rising again? i dey shake my head well well for this oo.

Now on to the writing. In written Yoruba, is it common to use (`), (´) and the dot/line under certain characters as in (ẹ) only? Because I in my search for knowledge I have seen Yoruba with only these used, like in this text:

E̟nì kò̟ò̟kan ló ní è̟tó̟ láti kó̟ è̟kó̟. Ó kéré tán, è̟kó̟ gbo̟dò̟ jé̟ ò̟fé̟ ní àwo̟n ilé-è̟kó̟ alákò̟ó̟bè̟rè̟. E̟kó̟ ní ilé-è̟kó̟ alákò̟ó̟bè̟rè̟ yìí sì gbo̟dò̟ jé̟ dandan. A gbo̟dò̟ pèsè è̟kó̟ is̟é̟-o̟wó̟, àti ti ìmò̟-è̟ro̟ fún àwo̟n ènìyàn lápapò̟. Àn fàní tó dó̟gba ní ilé-è̟kó̟ gíga gbo̟dò̟ wà ní àró̟wó̟tó gbogbo e̟ni tó bá tó̟ sí.

The dots disappeared as I copied.

So, this is one written form. But I have also seen: ëwú àwötêlë (shirt), ëgbôn obìnrin (sister). In other words: (^,¨) and also (~) sometimes. Also, how do I say sister-in-law?

I don't have my books yet, so I'm not sure what they will say, but so far this is very confusing. I also saw this video, which goes more into detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGPtahOlx0 It is similar to this: [img]http://ls78.sweb.cz/images/DS-Yoruba.gif[/img]

What is the standard Yoruba alphabet with tonal marks I can use? Sorry to bother you with all these questions!

Hello Starflux,

The way you have it up there, the pattern for 'Ologinni' looks like this (mid-high-low-high) ie rising and falling and rising again. However, as far as I am aware of, it should actually be a tone pattern of (mid-high-low-low), so it has to be rising and falling. Therefore you should have a (`) on the last tone, not a (´). Hope that helps.

The written form with these symbols (^,¨), (~), are to be found in mostly old Yoruba written form. Modern Yoruba no longer uses these symbols. The (^) simply means (high-low) ie a high tone followed by a low tone, (´) followed by (`) or (´)(`).

The (~) was used to write words that represent a combination of tones, for example the word for 'Smell' is 'Oorun', with this pattern (`)(´)(`). The tone pattern for this is (low-high-low). Using this symbol (~) known as a tilde, it will be written as 'Orun', just one 'O' with the tilde on top.

See here: http://www.learnyoruba.com/ORTHOGRAPHY_1.pdf, for further explanation.


As for 'Sister-in-law', well the general word for 'in-law' in Yoruba is 'Ana' with tone pattern (low-mid) ie (`)( ). Note it has the same spelling as the word for 'Yesterday' → 'Ana', but a different tone pattern, which is: (low-high) ie (`)(´).

Now to describe your sister in-law, you would say 'My in-law who is my brother's wife' -> 'Ana mi, iyawo egbon mi'.


For modern Standard Yoruba orthography and accepted tonal marks, try and download this Yoruba language language primer here: http://www.learnyoruba.com/Downloads/YorubaPrimer.pdf
You can also look again at this site: http://www.scribd.com/doc/5967313/GrammarYoruba


It was produced based on the work of Professor Ayo Bamgbose, the foremost linguistic authority on modern Yoruba. A lot of his work underpins modern Yoruba language writing form.

You can also try their Yoruba Readers Club: http://www.learnyoruba.com/readers.htm


odabo

Thank you again for these invaluable replies! I will make sure to read the site more properly. Maybe I will look into getting that membership.

These are the books I decided on:
Dictionary: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0781809789/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
Introduction to Yoruba: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0781810698/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
And another books for beginners + audio CDs: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0415700604/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

Do you think these books are OK? They seem like the best available books as far as I've seen.


Thank you, Africaman.

chipmunkey: @OP YORUBA IS ONE OF THE MOST MELODIOUS LANGUAGES ON EARTH SO CONGRATS ON YOUR NEW JOURNEY.

So I've noticed! It's a very beautiful language. I also love the music. I'm not 100% sure if this song is Yoruba, but I think it is. Do you perhaps know what it's called?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1adMd9Agop0
Skip to 1.30 to hear the singing.

Hi Starflux,

I think the dictionary is okay. I have perused it before, however I haven't really read the other books. But they do look alright. Aren't there any universities, colleges or community organisations offering short courses in Yoruba, where you live ? Maybe it would be better to attend such courses where you are based, if theer are any, that is.


Odabo

Africaman: Hi Starflux,

I think the dictionary is okay. I have perused it before, however I haven't really read the other books. But they do look alright. Aren't there any universities, colleges or community organisations offering short courses in Yoruba, where you live ? Maybe it would be better to attend such courses where you are based, if theer are any, that is.


Odabo

Hi!

I've been searching the internet for courses, but haven't found any. I'm in on this all by myself. I realize that my pronounciation will be bad, but I will be working towards a written exam only, so I won't have to talk. At some point though, I will wish to improve my Yoruba. I was actually surprised that a Yoruba exam was even available. However, there's always the chance that I will find someone who can help me out, but until then I rely on books and internet sources. I've looked at previous level 1 language exams, and they are all fairly easy. Mostly anwering a couple of basic questions and then write a short text about yourself or something. I think I will be able to achiev this in a few months time, even if only be memorizing the words.

So I recieved my books yesterday (if anyone is interested) and so far they all seem great. However, browsing through the first pages of the Beginner's Yoruba by Kayode J. Fakinlede it seems like it does not adress the issue as to how you should adress elders and such. In that way, it is more informal (and so it says in the introduction, although I might've skipped it or maybe it will come later). However, the book really seems to give you a very good start (I liked the start better in this book than the other, and the included CDs are excellent). I'm sure there are cons and pros to both.

As for Colloquial Yoruba: The Complete Course for Beginners (as the othe book is called) by Antonia Yetunde Folarin Schleicher it does say how to adress elders. The CDs are also excellent.

These are only first impressions and both books seems to be very solid. The CDs are amazing and are of tremendous value. The dictionary, Yoruba-English/English-Yoruba Modern Practical Dictionary also by Fakinlede, is surprisingly big and contains a lot of words.

Congratulations Starflux and good luck with your learning.

You might find this useful: http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/pronunciation.html


odabo.

Africaman: Congratulations Starflux and good luck with your learning.

You might find this useful: http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/pronunciation.html


odabo.

Oh, very nice! Thank you again!

Authentic Yoruba is hard for me to read too. don't give up.

The accents (do re mi) can be hard to read.

*Ileke-IdI:
Authentic Yoruba is hard for me to read too. don't give up.

The accents (do re mi) can be hard to read.

Yes, the tones are what I'm currently struggling the most with. Currently I have bì - to throw up, bi - to ask and bí - to deliver a baby, in my head. To me they sound so much alike. Oh well, not giving up!

HellO!

I've been reading up a little on Yoruba dialects. As I understand it, standard or written Yoruba is a mix of these dialects. I am a bit worried that I will have problems understanding Yoruba in oral form.
How well will I be able to fare in for example Eko when speaking standard Yoruba? That goes for both understanding and being understood. Are these dialects mutually intelligble? I assume after some time spent, I will adjust to the dialect, but just as a question of interest.

There are a couple of Yotube clips with some of these dialects, and they sound a bit distinct from each other. That's why I'm wondering.

starflux, sup?

this is off topic, but i was just curious.

ive read some of ur comments where u said u are half norwegian. is it that ur mum is white or u are a naturalized citizen?

Hello, Ezotik. May I assume you're the same Exotik I know from earlier?

I'm not entirely sure why this question would be of interest to you, but I will not discuss it in this thread.

yes, same ezotik.

nothing serious..it just because of the way u have said it repeatedly, i guess that was why i curios to know what makes u a 'half' norwegian. and well, norway is a 'white' country. but hey no biggie, if the Q was too personal.

khian zekpe!

Kóyò!

Íyé mwén é norwegian. (How would you say this norwegian?)

Ok, so I tried writing it with tones, I know only a few words with tones, I'm sure there's a mistake somewhere (grammar?)! Please correct. Other than that is is no problem, I just thought it was a bit strange that you wanted to know.

Khian zepke!

oh ok. no yawa.

i think u wrote the tones correctly. but the sentence is missing 'is' which im not sure how to spell correctly altho i can pronounce it. so i'll leave the sentence as it is not to ruin it with wrong spelling coz anybody with a little knowlegde of edo would understand what u wrote. so its cool.

anyway, later.

StarFlux: HellO!

I've been reading up a little on Yoruba dialects. As I understand it, standard or written Yoruba is a mix of these dialects. I am a bit worried that I will have problems understanding Yoruba in oral form.
How well will I be able to fare in for example Eko when speaking standard Yoruba? That goes for both understanding and being understood. Are these dialects mutually intelligble? I assume after some time spent, I will adjust to the dialect, but just as a question of interest.

There are a couple of Yotube clips with some of these dialects, and they sound a bit distinct from each other. That's why I'm wondering.

we have standard yoruba which i think is oyo dialect, this i think every yoruba person understand. You can try find that oyo standard and you are good to go.

seunfly: we have standard yoruba which i think is oyo dialect, this i think every yoruba person understand. You can try find that oyo standard and you are good to go.

Oh ok, ó yé mi.

O/Ẹ ṣe.

StarFlux: Oh ok, ó yé mi.

O/Ẹ ṣe.

O sehun O, odabo