Mr_Anony:
Hmmm, Let's see; If you had the power, would you ban tithing?

Why would I ban tithing? It is not against any human rights. The church doesnt force them to pay.


However, I would make public announcements and release information on the false doctrine of religion and tithing.



As for tithing itself, tithing does not represent christianity.

Logicbwoy:


Why would I ban tithing? It is not against any human rights. The church doesnt force them to pay.


However, I would make public announcements and release information on the false doctrine of religion and tithing.



As for tithing itself, tithing does not represent christianity.

I didn't say it was a christian act, however it is definitely a religious act.
For one who is neutral on matters of religion, how come you feel qualified to take a stance on a religious issue to the extent of campaigning against it?
Wouldn't this make you anti-religious to a degree?

...............Remember, it isn't against human rights.

Mr_Anony:
I didn't say it was a christian act, however it is definitely a religious act.
For one who is neutral on matters of religion, how come you feel qualified to take a stance on a religious issue to the extent of campaigning against it?
Wouldn't this make you anti-religious to a degree?

...............Remember, it isn't against human rights.

Tithing 10% of your hard earned money to church that isnt taxed is fraud. Every citizen has a moral duty to speak against it

Logicbwoy:


Tithing 10% of your hard earned money to church that isnt taxed is fraud. Every citizen has a moral duty to speak against it

Since it is their hard-earned money, are they not in the best position to decide what to do with it?
But it is their religious belief and they are not forced to pay, they are not even forced to choose the religion.


Why does it bother you so much? Remember you were supposed to be neutral. Is this your idea of neutrality?
Once you start interfering in religious matters, you are no longer neutral.

Mr_Anony:
Since it is their hard-earned money, are they not in the best position to decide what to do with it?
But it is their religious belief and they are not forced to pay, they are not even forced to choose the religion.


Why does it bother you so much? Remember you were supposed to be neutral. Is this your idea of neutrality?

Neutrality does not mean silence on evil.



What about people who fund terrorist organisations with their hard earned money but they believe that they are doing good (eg people thinking Hamas are justice fighters)? If it were done on a large scale like tithing in Nigeria, one should not talk about it?

Logicbwoy:


Neutrality does not mean silence on evil.

What about people who fund terrorist organisations with their hard earned money but they believe that they are doing good (eg people thinking Hamas are justice fighters)? If it were done on a large scale like tithing in Nigeria, one should not talk about it?

lol, your tax money can even be used to fund terrorists without your knowledge...... You don't have a case and you are flying off on a tangent; funding terrorist organizations is so far out of the field of what we are talking about and you know it
..... You haven't shown how tithing is evil. You even said it doesn't go against human rights so why are you so opposed to it?

By the way, I like how you redefine neutrality to suit your intentions: It would interest you that Mao's persecution of religion was carried out in the names of "religious freedom" and "culture revolution". He never saw his atrocities as persecution, he honestly thought he was liberating them from "the poison of religion"

Mr_Anony:
lol, your tax money can even be used to fund terrorists without your knowledge...... You don't have a case and you are flying off on a tangent; funding terrorist organizations is so far out of the field of what we are talking about and you know it
..... You haven't shown how tithing is evil. You even said it doesn't go against human rights so why are you so opposed to it?

By the way, I like how you redefine neutrality to suit your intentions: It would interest you that Mao's persecution of religion was carried out in the names of "religious freedom" and "culture revolution". He never saw his atrocities as persecution, he honestly thought he was liberating them from "the poison of religion"

Wow....you have gone off into another Zone.


It is as simple as ABC. Tithing is not against the law just as flogging ones children. That does not make it right. I speak out against these things because they dont help the society.

Tithing makes poor Nigerians even poorer. Many have been brainwashed to see tithing as a moral duty. I will inform them that it is better to feed the poor personally or use your money to help yourself or others personally than tithe. You dont see me railing against prayer or taking communion even though I dont believe in them.

Logicbwoy:


Wow....you have gone off into another Zone.


It is as simple as ABC. Tithing is not against the law just as flogging ones children. That does not make it right. I speak out against these things because they dont help the society.

Tithing makes poor Nigerians even poorer. Many have been brainwashed to see tithing as a moral duty. I will inform them that it is better to feed the poor personally or use your money to help yourself or others personally than tithe. You dont see me railing against prayer or taking communion even though I dont believe in them.

Lol, funny chap you are.
A man earns his money, chooses that the best way spend it is to serve God by giving 10% of his income to his church which he considers a good cause.

Another man sits in his house and says: "yes the money is all yours, it is not against any laws or human rights how you choose to spend it, you are free to spend it all on booze or even throw it into the lagoon if you like but please whatever you do, don't be charitable by giving it to the church, be charitable in the way I think is better for you".

My friend you are an oppressive dictator, you just don't know it yet. The only major difference between you and Chairman Mao is that Mao had an army and you don't.

Mr_Anony:
It is equally very difficult to attack theism on moral grounds, except if you attack theistic philosophies like Islam, Christianity, Hindu, Shamanism etc

Of course, which is why you never see me lump all theists into one basket.

Kay 17:

Of course, which is why you never see me lump all theists into one basket.

Good to know.
Now let me ask you one thing: Do you have an understanding of the "philosophy" of Christian morality?
If yes what do you know it to be?

Logicbwoy:


How did you reach that conclusion from my argument? Just because your not anti- something doesnt mean that you're pro something.

Atheism = god doesnt exist.

Atheism = supernatural doesn't exist

^^^^ Enter the beginnings of atheist sects and denominations.......

Mr_Anony: ^^^^ Enter the beginnings of atheist sects and denominations.......

GhostofSpata is a pagan.


Why do you fail so hard, mr Anony?

Logicbwoy:


GhostofSpata is a pagan.


Why do you fail so hard, mr Anony?

Oh is he now? I didn't know. Thanks for letting me know.

By the way, I like how you jump at every slight opportunity to throw in phrases like the one highlighted above.
For you the slightest mistake counts as a "huge win".
Are you really that insecure about your intelligence that you need to always reassure yourself of it by jumping upon other people's minor errors?
Well, if it makes you feel better.....I never knew ghostofsparta's theological stance was a major test of knowledge.
Congratulations you knew it.

Mr_Anony:
Good to know.
Now let me ask you one thing: Do you have an understanding of the "philosophy" of Christian morality?
If yes what do you know it to be?

Yes I do

Kay 17:

Yes I do

Could you summarize it in a sentence or two?

Logicbwoy:

Atheism = god doesnt exist.

I think its the first time I am hearing (reading) you say this. I'll take it as a mistake. You might want to correct this. It is not the default atheist position. It could be an atheists position, not the atheist position.

Mr_Anony: ^^^^ Enter the beginnings of atheist sects and denominations.......

I think you've fallen victim to the theistic desire to view atheism as a tribe/sect/clan/religion etc. Some sort of unified group in other words. Nothing could be further from the truth.

jayriginal:

I think its the first time I am hearing (reading) you say this. I'll take it as a mistake. You might want to correct this. It is not the default atheist position. It could be an atheists position, not the atheist position.

Yes, it was a mistake on my part. Anony really gets on my nerves. We are from the same place and so I feel close to him. Sad that he is a slave to a religion that enslaved his forefathers. Anony comes from a place where the first Europeans came to naija

Logicbwoy:

Yes, it was a mistake on my part. Anony really gets on my nerves. We are from the same place and so I feel close to him. Sad that he is a slave to a religion that enslaved his forefathers. Anony comes from a place where the first Europeans came to naija

Cool.
Yeah, its sad what religion can do to a person.

Hahahahahahaha!!! Laugh no go kill me for hia............. see as dem dey discuss my matter like say dem be concerned relatives. Abeg comot for road make I pass jare.
When una eye open, una go see. Na so I blind before, so no worry e go happen one day. I go dey pray for una. lol

Mr_Anony:

Lol, funny chap you are.
A man earns his money, chooses that the best way spend it is to serve God by giving 10% of his income to his church which he considers a good cause.

Another man sits in his house and says: "yes the money is all yours, it is not against any laws or human rights how you choose to spend it, you are free to spend it all on booze or even throw it into the lagoon if you like but please whatever you do, don't be charitable by giving it to the church, be charitable in the way I think is better for you".

My friend you are an oppressive dictator, you just don't know it yet. The only major difference between you and Chairman Mao is that Mao had an army and you don't.

Lmao.....so putting information out is now oppression? Advising people is the same as forcing people? What it wrong in telling people that they have the final decision on their money and putting it in the church who are not accountable is not the best way to use it? Did I force anyone?


You have been insulting me by calling me an oppressive dictator. Repeating the same lie over and over again doesnt make it true.

Logicbwoy:
Lmao.....so putting information out is now oppression? Advising people is the same as forcing people? What it wrong in telling people that they have the final decision on their money and putting it in the church who are not accountable is not the best way to use it? Did I force anyone?

Wow! The above comment is golden! You have just bought into my worldview.......

.........I hope this will now allow you to see that evangelism is not imposing the gospel on anyone but telling them about the good news of Christ.

Mr_Anony:
Wow! The above comment is golden! You have just bought into my worldview.......

.........I hope this will now allow you to see that evangelism is not imposing the gospel on anyone but telling them about the good news of Christ.

Pandering to me will not blind me from the fact that you twisted my comment to call me a dictator. The height of hypocrisy- a christian calling an atheist a dictator.


The good news of christ is not a fact. Advise should be based on fact. When I say tithing is fraud, I have years and years of churches misusing funds to back me up. Ironic that pastors dont tithe.

Even if you want to claim that the message of christ is true. Christ did not tithe and there are passages used by your fellow christians to show that tithing is not necessary.

Logicbwoy:
Pandering to me will not blind me from the fact that you twisted my comment to call me a dictator. The height of hypocrisy- a christian calling an atheist a dictator.

Don't humor yourself. I called you a dictator because that is what I know you to be. I am convinced that if you had absolute power, you will banish religion and you will not hesitate to use force. My opinion of you as a person does not in any way go against my christian beliefs or make me a hypocrite.

Whether my opinion of you is right or wrong is yet to be seen, however, one thing is sure; We have been able to establish from this thread that if there ever was an evangelical atheist, you fit the description perfectly well.

Logicbwoy: The good news of christ is not a fact. Advise should be based on fact. When I say tithing is fraud, I have years and years of churches misusing funds to back me up. Ironic that pastors dont tithe.

Lol, that you don't believe in the good news of Christ does not stop it from being fact in much the same way as not believing the holocoast happened doesn't make it not happen, but that's besides the point.

Tithing is a fraud in the same way that taxation and giving to charities is a fraud. I have years and years of misused tax funds to back me up.....and just so you know, pastors actually pay tithe.

Logicbwoy: Even if you want to claim that the message of christ is true. Christ did not tithe and there are passages used by your fellow christians to show that tithing is not necessary.

Oh, the message of Christ is true of course and tithing is unnecessarily. but then what most anti-tithe campaignes choose to leave out is that Christ urged us to give 100% instead of 10% and to give it cheerfully.
This is partly why your motives puzzle me because when you ask Christians not to pay tithe, are you asking them to become better Christians and give more up to 100% or are you just trying to make them desist from yet another Christian activity?



P/S: I have served in church leadership before and I can assure you that in most churches everyone including the pastor sincerely believe that tithing is scriptural. It is usually not a deliberate attempt to fool anyone, besides for most of these churches, the income is almost always less than the expenditure after they have done outreaches and missions.

If you took the time to look into most of these churches especially the grassroot ones, instead of judging megachurches from your TV screen, you will see earnest hardworking ministers throwing in all their money and energy into the ministry.
The megachurches you criticize most of the time are similar to these grassroot churches only that this time around, there are more tithing members so the income now outweighs their expenditures and the ministers can afford to live in relative luxury...

.....and of course there is also the corruption that comes with power. Also crooks who start a church as business to deliberately defraud people but these are not the norm neither do they represent what Christ stands for.

There is no doubt that you're a wise man, Mr. Anony. However, your brain is partitioned. Your wisdom stops when the religious side of you starts talking. You become as fallacious as the Resurrection of Christ (A god that is ominpotent dying). Remove this shackle of religion from your brain. It makes you foolish. Allow me to debunk you;

Mr_Anony: Don't humor yourself. I called you a dictator because that is what I know you to be. I am convinced that if you had absolute power, you will banish religion and you will not hesitate to use force. My opinion of you as a person does not in any way go against my christian beliefs or make me a hypocrite.

When did you start reading people's minds or seeing the future? You know, the punishment for such witchcraft in the old testament is death?

I have never ever wanted to force anyone to do anything. I dont believe in dictatorship and I have never even wanted absolute power. A secular democracy which I support can not even allow that. Keep bearing false witness against me, hypocrite.

Mr_Anony:
Whether my opinion of you is right or wrong is yet to be seen, however, one thing is sure; We have been able to establish from this thread that if there ever was an evangelical atheist, you fit the description perfectly well.

e·van·ge·lism/iˈvanjəˌlizəm/
Noun:
1)The spreading of the Christian gospel by preaching or personal witness.
2) Zealous advocacy of a cause.

The only thing I do is complain about religious bigotry on the internet. When you have atheists going from house to house or preaching on the market square like christians do, then you can have the moral standing to call someone an "evangelical atheist".

Mr_Anony:
Lol, that you don't believe in the good news of Christ does not stop it from being fact in much the same way as not believing the holocoast happened doesn't make it not happen, but that's besides the point.

Facts are based on evidence. No evidence exists for God. None. That is why faith differs from fact.

Mr_Anony:
Tithing is a fraud in the same way that taxation and giving to charities is a fraud. I have years and years of misused tax funds to back me up.....and just so you know, pastors actually pay tithe.

1) The government is authorized by law to collect tax, the church brainwashed people to collect tax tithes. Government has the authority, church doesnt. In a developed society government officials are fired/suspended/queried for misuse of funds. Oyedepo and his fellow pastors are lounging in private jets with no fear.

2) Interesting that you bring up charities because they too are fraudulent. Many people advice that it is better to do the charity yourself and give poor people the benefits or scrutinize your charity. The same thing I am saying about churches.

Mr_Anony:
Oh, the message of Christ is true of course and tithing is unnecessarily. but then what most anti-tithe campaignes choose to leave out is that Christ urged us to give 100% instead of 10% and to give it cheerfully.
This is partly why your motives puzzle me because when you ask Christians not to pay tithe, are you asking them to become better Christians and give more up to 100% or are you just trying to make them desist from yet another Christian activity?

Call me when you have evidence for God. Yawn.

Jesus did not say that everyone should give 100%. He was talking about his literal followers (Disciples, apostles; pastors and MOGs). Pastors should be as humble as John the baptist.

Mr_Anony:
P/S: I have served in church leadership before and I can assure you that in most churches everyone including the pastor sincerely believe that tithing is scriptural. It is usually not a deliberate attempt to fool anyone, besides for most of these churches, the income is almost always less than the expenditure after they have done outreaches and missions.

If you took the time to look into most of these churches especially the grassroot ones, instead of judging megachurches from your TV screen, you will see earnest hardworking ministers throwing in all their money and energy into the ministry.
The megachurches you criticize most of the time are similar to these grassroot churches only that this time around, there are more tithing members so the income now outweighs their expenditures and the ministers can afford to live in relative luxury...

.....and of course there is also the corruption that comes with power. Also crooks who start a church as business to deliberately defraud people but these are not the norm neither do they represent what Christ stands for.

All churches are corrupt. None of them will fast for 40 sundays without tithing or monetary offerings. There is no church that will accept the challenge of fasting by only recieveing food and material items but not money.

Anony, this is my new thread. Shows the kind of mental slave you are

https://www.nairaland.com/1001746/house-negro

Logicbwoy:


GhostofSpata is a pagan.

I am not that kind of pagan you've been fed to think.

ghostofsparta:

I am not that kind of pagan you've been fed to think.

Sharaap.


I dont care what kind of pagan you are. You are free to practice whatever you like as long as it doesnt infringe on my rights.

Safe to say, pagans are more honest about their religion than christians or muslims.
https://www.nairaland.com/1001746/house-negro

Mr_Anony: Don't humor yourself. I called you a dictator because that is what I know you to be. I am convinced that if you had absolute power, you will banish religion and you will not hesitate to use force. My opinion of you as a person does not in any way go against my christian beliefs or make me a hypocrite.

Whether my opinion of you is right or wrong is yet to be seen, however, one thing is sure; We have been able to establish from this thread that if there ever was an evangelical atheist, you fit the description perfectly well.



Lol, that you don't believe in the good news of Christ does not stop it from being fact in much the same way as not believing the holocoast happened doesn't make it not happen, but that's besides the point.

Tithing is a fraud in the same way that taxation and giving to charities is a fraud. I have years and years of misused tax funds to back me up.....and just so you know, pastors actually pay tithe.


Oh, the message of Christ is true of course and tithing is unnecessarily. but then what most anti-tithe campaignes choose to leave out is that Christ urged us to give 100% instead of 10% and to give it cheerfully.
This is partly why your motives puzzle me because when you ask Christians not to pay tithe, are you asking them to become better Christians and give more up to 100% or are you just trying to make them desist from yet another Christian activity?



P/S: I have served in church leadership before and I can assure you that in most churches everyone including the pastor sincerely believe that tithing is scriptural. It is usually not a deliberate attempt to fool anyone, besides for most of these churches, the income is almost always less than the expenditure after they have done outreaches and missions.

If you took the time to look into most of these churches especially the grassroot ones, instead of judging megachurches from your TV screen, you will see earnest hardworking ministers throwing in all their money and energy into the ministry.
The megachurches you criticize most of the time are similar to these grassroot churches only that this time around, there are more tithing members so the income now outweighs their expenditures and the ministers can afford to live in relative luxury...

.....and of course there is also the corruption that comes with power. Also crooks who start a church as business to deliberately defraud people but these are not the norm neither do they represent what Christ stands for.

My brother, grace be multiplied to you. Now it is I who must say that you're the more patient of the two of us. I believe completely in shaking off the dust of my feet (or cramp of my fingers, in this case lol) after the message has been rejected. But if you still have the grace to persist, I guess u should. I just doubt you're getting anywhere with it. Perhaps you should debate non-religious issues with our man and maybe the Grace of the Lord in your attention to them will finally "debunk" (lol, what a word!) him.

Ihedinobi:

My brother, grace be multiplied to you. Now it is I who must say that you're the more patient of the two of us. I believe completely in shaking off the dust of my feet (or cramp of my fingers, in this case lol) after the message has been rejected. But if you still have the grace to persist, I guess u should. I just doubt you're getting anywhere with it. Perhaps you should debate non-religious issues with our man and maybe the Grace of the Lord in your attention to them will finally "debunk" (lol, what a word!) him.

lol....when will you guyz accept that there is no evidence for God?

Logicbwoy:


lol....when will you guyz accept that there is no evidence for God?

And when will you accept that there is?

Logicbwoy: There is no doubt that you're a wise man, Mr. Anony. However, your brain is partitioned. Your wisdom stops when the religious side of you starts talking. You become as fallacious as the Resurrection of Christ (A god that is ominpotent dying). Remove this shackle of religion from your brain. It makes you foolish. Allow me to debunk you;

Lol @debunk (that word has lost meaning)

When did you start reading people's minds or seeing the future? You know, the punishment for such witchcraft in the old testament is death?

I have never ever wanted to force anyone to do anything. I dont believe in dictatorship and I have never even wanted absolute power. A secular democracy which I support can not even allow that. Keep bearing false witness against me, hypocrite.

My opinion of you is still my opinion of you. It hasn't changed. You are free to conjure up meanings and twist statements as much as you like.

e·van·ge·lism/iˈvanjəˌlizəm/
Noun:
1)The spreading of the Christian gospel by preaching or personal witness.
2) Zealous advocacy of a cause.

The only thing I do is complain about religious bigotry on the internet. When you have atheists going from house to house or preaching on the market square like christians do, then you can have the moral standing to call someone an "evangelical atheist".

The highlighted describes your Nairaland anti-religion frenzy.

Facts are based on evidence. No evidence exists for God. None. That is why faith differs from fact.

Facts are facts, evidence is what meaning we read into it......
Fact: The universe exists and has an origin
Theist: It is an evidence of God's creative power.
Atheist: It is an evidence that everything can come from absolutely nothing.

1) The government is authorized by law to collect tax, the church brainwashed people to collect tax tithes. Government has the authority, church doesnt. In a developed society government officials are fired/suspended/queried for misuse of funds. Oyedepo and his fellow pastors are lounging in private jets with no fear.

And a government can only exist if a group of people agree to be bound by certain laws hence pay tax. Same goes for a church. It can only exist if a group of people agree to worship God and abide by certain codes of conduct hence pay tithe. Perhaps, you were brainwashed into paying taxes who knows?

2) Interesting that you bring up charities because they too are fraudulent. Many people advice that it is better to do the charity yourself and give poor people the benefits or scrutinize your charity. The same thing I am saying about churches.

Many people advise many different things. You just made a very weak statement

Call me when you have evidence for God. Yawn.

Call me when you wise up to the evidence.

Jesus did not say that everyone should give 100%. He was talking about his literal followers (Disciples, apostles; pastors and MOGs). Pastors should be as humble as John the baptist.

I didn't know Jesus had figurative followers distinct from his literal ones lol.

All churches are corrupt. None of them will fast for 40 sundays without tithing or monetary offerings. There is no church that will accept the challenge of fasting by only recieveing food and material items but not money.

Please cite the survey you carried out to get to this conclusion.