₦airaland Forum

@Poster: You can't make your sister see the TRUTH until she exhausts her self.

Tonye,


Jesus Christ never asked for "donation" "seed" or any other name from people like these PIMPS do these days but he did warn us to beware of these kinds of pimps.

Don't be fooled by the so called "miracles" these "MOGs" are supposed to be performing:


Matthew 7:15-23 (King James Version)

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

sir t:
@ all critics,

My intention is not to attack anybody, but rather to call your attention to some points.

1) Did Daddy GO applied or lobbied for a chance to preach or pray at UN prayer meeting?

2) Should he reject the invitation by UN to pray for the peace of the world?

3) Can any one tell me the number of prominent pastors we have in the world before he was singled out for such task?

4) Can any one tell me at any point in time Daddy G.O was appointed into any political office?

5) When did it become an offence to honour a clarion call?

6) Was there at any time that Adeboye embezzled public fund?

If you all prefer to blame Adeboye for whatever reasons you have, What do u think should be done to our leaders that were saddle with the responsibilities of providing social amenities, security, infrastructure, and so on?

What will you/are you saying of Politicians that are wasting our resources daily?

What do you think should done to our Leaders entrusted with our utmost trust to manage our God-given resources,but failed us?

What would you say of our past leaders from colonial masters to military men and to present democrats?

The list is endless, but will stop here for people to ponder on for a while.

As for the Lady who claimed to be a worker of the Church and still went ahead TO SPEAK BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE G.O, I pray God will forgive you.

Dude,

One can only blaspheme against God/Jesus Christ and not a fellow man no matter what you guys want to call him/her.
Take your head out of you *** for a minute and think of who needs prayers more, Nigeria or the so called UN? When you hobnob with the same thieves that fleeced the country dry, one can only assume/conclude that you are the company you keep. I am sorry but I refuse to acknowledge any of these PIMPS who are neither Daniel, Elijah, Elisha, not to even talk of a Peter or Paul. Serve God only and leave men (GO or not) to serve themselves if that is what they choose to do.

Equipper:
@abose

I couldn't agree with you more abose Why do you think these ministers do not teach the fundamentals of the Christian faith? There might be several reasons but ignorance of the Scriptures should not be outruled.

Ignorance could be part of it but I am more inclined to think they focus on their "bottom line", If they can't find a passage that helps to fleece the flock, they tend to focus "motivational speak" to "lift" the crowd enough to open their wallets. Money indeed is the root cause of all evil and I feel sorry for those who exploit the Bible for personal gain.

KunleOshob:
But our highly reverred daddy G.O claims he as one on one conversations with God   are you saying we should start running from him

Anything a Christian ought to do is "walk" and anything a Christian is not supposed to do, we must "flee" from.

The Apostle Paul taught a lot and didn't do all the stuff we see from these guys today neither did he teach anything different from what Jesus Christ taught. One can see a whole service now with these new breed without any reference to Christ or his teachings but mainly on wealth, you will not die and other worldly teachings. As always, buyer beware

Anytime you hear "God told me" from a preacher/pastor, RUN!

Most of the charismatic/pentecostal preachers/pastors we see today are in it for the money, they are doing this because they couldn't find jobs or cut it in other areas or just because this is more lucrative with no accountability whatsoever. I am skeptical of a whole bunch of them for good reason.

Man tire oooo!

Find a fellowship place that preaches the unadulterated truth and not money hungry stay at home pastor who will be robbing you blind and stick with it Nigerian or not.
You are the church/temple of God, fellowship with fellow Christians is what you seem to be seeking.

chukwudi44 (Olorun maje sun ku)

Trusting the RCC and their agents with the Bible is like trusting a mouse with some cheese. Our God works in wonderful ways and not even the devil can spoil his show no matter how many people the devil employs.

"Religion is the opium of the people", Karl Max

An Efik/Ibibio "olabowale",
Is the water in New York really that bad to affect your ability to make any sense in your posts?

God bless you Kunle for the good job you're doing to educate some of our folks whose gear remain stuck on "stupid". I used to think NIDOs were more independent thinkers than those of us back home and now I know that was a wrong assumption given what we've all seen on here. At the end of the day, we have to realize who we really should be serving - God and not some pastor or whatever they want to call themselves these days. Are we that "busy" with trying to make a living to reason correctly? God help us all.

The devil has been at it for a long time and we need to remember that when it comes to the scriptures as well. There are folks who will argue that this very medium was created by the devil but we can also use it for real Christian fellowship because at the end of the day, God owns the devil too even after casting him out of the Heavenly realm. The devil is hell bent on taking as many folks with him as possible hence the confusion over the very way we should or should not serve our God, no wonder we see "churches" being run like fortune 500 companies these days and folks who have been "trained" or indoctrinated to tow the "company line".
At the end of the day, we will all give account of our stewardship and it won't have anything to do with our debating skills or the lack thereof. God gave us an ever present "program" aka conscience/grace to act as a constant guide/companion so we can parse/process what we hear&see in accordance with his will for us, to cap it all, he also gave us his only begotten son Jesus Christ to pay our debt and show us the way home and he is the ONLY one we need to follow as real Christians.

Ephesians 6:10-13 comes to mind:


10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

One has to pray for understanding of his Word when we study the Scriptures in our WALK with the Lord.

You are alright PG.1 whether we agree or not as we are all trying to serve God to the best of our abilities. A healthy debate is always good to have. God bless.

Another way to look at it could be:

Mandated/compulsory giving of a % =Government
Voluntary giving of any % = GOD

Keeping it simple!

Anyone who has watched these "churches" (Nigerian or not) and don't see a pattern is probably not looking. I love this guy's post, it sums up all we've been trying to say in this thread:

JPot
Posts: 6

Offline Offline


Re: What Tithe Really Means
« #242 on: Today at 09:11:06 AM »

Todak,

Sorry that I haven't read this entire thread, so I don't know whether or not you have gotten the message yet.

The matter of fact is that the tithe is from the Old Testament. Jesus says, "I give you a new testament love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul. And love your brother as yourself." The Old Testament for the Jews is abolished.

This isn't to say that tithing is bad. Tithing is good for supporting the needs of the church, and seeing that you are most likely a pastor from Nigeria I see that funding is of great importance to you. But tithing is something done of free will, as a fruit of the Holy Spirit within us. Not something we do since we are under the law.

Heck if I had the money I wouldn't be ashamed of giving 90% of my gross salary to the feet of Christ. But its not because I'm obliged to do it. It is because I want to do it. I do it because I love Christ.

As for the rest of you. Beware of wolves in sheep skin. One sure sign: Rich pastor, poor church.


Humility is the bedrock of our faith and without it, we can't be good standing Christians, this tithe thing is great to explore for all Christians, learning should be a continuous process no matter the age(just a number if you ask me)
I have not come across any rejection of Christ on any post regardless of the position though some have gone as far as label those who object to % based giving as "robbing God".
Those who impose "tithe" or advocate it are actually the ones robbing God (if there is anything like that) because I don't think my God can be robbed by satan let alone man.
We know "man must wack" but man need to get a job rather than piggyback on the "congregation" hence I called it "malpractice" in an earlier post.
I won't even touch the OBJ reference so my sister PG.1 won't jump on me for getting off topic   (I don't think  the right fonts exist to describe that thing, I remember Ibo people used to say about folks they don't like, 'he will die twice', my God fights his own battles)
We need to be more like Christ and keep it "simple":


34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Blessings for all.

2 Corinthians 9:10 (King James Version)

10Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

Am I missing something here PG.1?

Jesus enjoined us to give unlike the pharisees
The poor, orphans and widows didn't have to tithe though today's "churches" will swiftly take the last dime of a poor widow or orphan in the name of seed sowing.
There is no rejection or condemnation of those on the opposite isle of this thread.
I don't know that you can choose to do something that is "required" or "mandated"
We happen to be Christians who love Jesus and refuse to be "instructed" on how/when to giveAnyone who thinks the devil is not inside some "churches" need to stop deluding themselves, look at our Lord's prayer and compare it to some you hear/see, some of them sounds like ogun incantations if you ask me

It is my humble opinion that we should leave these "tithers" to their own delusions.
The tithe Abraham gave to Melchizedek had to be a pagan tithe because God only required 1% at that time from the spoils of war. These tithers need to update their knowledge of Babylonian practices to see that a lot of those practices had Arab pagan origin, the tithe to the king of Sodom represents what then?
I need these guys to show me an instance of Gentiles paying tithe, were tithes collected outside of the land of Israel? I am yet to see where "sowing a seed" equates money, lots of these "above reproach" Christians really are lost or have been turned into "zombies"
Earthly benefits is for pagans, we as Christians have been cautioned to lay up our treasures in Heaven and please "teacher", don't teach me nonsense even if there maybe some sense in it.

|| Kantoma, I am not sure you have read this thread or your Bible for that matter:
The principle here is that God doesn't require 10% of what you have/make, that is for your "pastor" "man of God" or whatever nomenclature he/she goes by, those big edifices are not glorifying God any more than a simple house fellowship. Giving from the heart and as much as you can is what is required of true believers under the new covenant, is it safe to say today's "pastors" are servants of the priests? WOW!

PG1: I believe the question from Kunle was if any evidence existed to say that Abraham gave tithes more than once or if Jacob actually redeemed his pledge or tithed again.
I am sticking to my old high school motto: recta decep et factere

He that hath an ear, let him hear what, :
It is funny how folks can know you based on a particular position you take, I maybe an Amicus curiae in this case but it doesn't matter to the "tithe" 10% hounds.
I still fellowship with other folks in a "church" but I am just not into the foolishness of taking everything the "man of God" says without cross referencing and certainly don't partake in the absurd 10% malpractice.
However I do my giving is between me and my creator which is exactly what our prince of peace Jesus taught us not to give like the pharisees and reaping the reward right here on earth as opposed to Heaven.
As Dan Agbese once wrote " There is nothing infallibly prophetic about pessimistic or cynical conjectures"
And Ra Ekpu "Arrogance is the prerogative of the conceited"
There is little doubt that these are the end times and we must be on the lookout for Wolves in Sheep's clothing, you have to have a knowledge of the other side to properly defend against their tactics and antics, we must be more like Jesus Christ if we hope to make Heaven, to each his own.
In closing, I will quote my man Bob Marley since Fela will take the whole page "Everyman got a right to decide his own destiny, but on the judgment day, there is no partiality, "

Blessed are the pure in hear, for they shall see God,
Enigma, I agree with you and Kunle totally.

It is clear that the "tithers" won't give up! I've got two more cents to add here:

Tithe is out, giving is in
Jesus paid our DEBT on the CROSS and those collecting "tithes" in the his name are "oles"
All real Christians are in his "Royal Priesthood" and don't need any "man of god"
The CHURCH is the believer and not some dome shaped edifice that glorifies you know who but not our maker
The real Christian is the Church and Temple
The new Covenant doesn't require you to actually go to a "church" to serve him when he dwells in you
A real Christian ought to run anytime he/she hears "man of God", "God told me" "you will prosper", "you will not die", etc.
The kingdom of Heaven is not a "pay to play" entity as some of these gospel entertainers/pimps will have you believe
A real Christian need to run from those guilt peddlers

Here are a few passages to support my "rant":



1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (King James Version)
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (King James Version)
19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Ephesians 1:22-23 (King James Version)
22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Ephesians 2:19-24 (King James Version)
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Ephesians 4:12-16 (King James Version)
12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Revelation 3:12 (King James Version)
12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
2 Corinthians 3:8-12 (King James Version)
8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:


God bless his Children, all of them.

How about this PG1:


Hebrews 7:12-19 (King James Version)

12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


God bless.

The point I have stated all along is that we are not bound by a hard number as Christians, you should give what your heart desires and can afford. Material prosperity is not the lot of a real Christian, we should be more like Christ in everything we do and not be fooled. In these end times, not everyone that claims to be spirit filled is filled with the Christian kind of spirit as they might be playing for the other team. If Jesus Christ said there are "weightier" matters of the law, I will much rather follow him than someone claiming to be filled with a spirit I don't understand as a Christian, "the eye is the light of the body, if the eye is good the body will be full of light, " Lucifer is very much around and some of these folks we think are working for Jesus are actually knowingly or unknowingly playing for the other team. Just becuase someone calls themselves a christian doesn't mean they are, to each his own.

Tithing is an Old Testament concept. The tithe was a requirement of the law in which all Israelites were to give 10% of everything they earned and grew to the Tabernacle / Temple (Leviticus 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5). Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites of the sacrificial system. The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church (1 Corinthians 16:1-2).

The New Testament nowhere assigns a certain percentage of income to set aside, but only says it is to be “in keeping with his income” (1 Corinthians 16:2). The Christian church has essentially taken the 10% figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving. Although the New Testament does not identify a specific amount or percentage to give, it does talk about the importance and benefits of giving. They should give as they are able, “in keeping with his income.” Sometimes that means giving more than a tithe, sometime that may mean giving less than a tithe. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the church. Each and every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom as to whether to participate in tithing and/or for how much he or she should give (James 1:5). “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).

There is no need for personal attacks, we are all trying to serve the same God (I know I am) and knowledge is important to be able to distinguish the Wolves from the Sheep in these end times we live in.
You have to be yoruba to get what Obey and Sunny sings about just like you have to educate your self to understand the Bible rather than let the Wolves teach you incorrectly. God bless each and everyone of us as we seek his truth.

I am not a pilgrim and can't argue with you on how to be one, from your point one can say Abraham didn't teach his son Jacob enough or Jacob wouldn't have been promising Yahweh 10% if he blessed his journey. You are free to part with your money anyway you see fit (as we say back home, you don't question someone who has oil about what to fry). I have decided not to pay tithes going forward and I can come up with ways to use such money to glorify God just not in some pastor's pockets. Those same pastors require folks (even the poor ones) to pay for activities that should be taken care of with church funds, "ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free, " Jesus has paid for my sins and his grace is upon me so I don't need laws when I have grace. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God"
Indoctrination is bad for folk's health, evidence abound yet they pursue the same old,
I would love to see a "store house" in today's churches, Bentley garage is probably the closest we will get to seeing that, lol

Carry on Kunle, it is nice to see someone who knows the Bible on this side of the Isle. God owns everything we have, why would he require a percentage of what is already his? These tithe apologists need to sit down and study the Bible and not just what someone tells them from the pulpit, no wonder some want to see your w2s now before they accept your membership though I would much rather worship alone than be in those places. Nothing against "altar calls" for specific needs but it much be stopped once the goal has been reached, Our High Priest is one and only-Jesus Christ.

Some of us like kunle get's it but I don't know what to say about those "structured tithers"
" from the Heavens to the Earth , to show the way
 from the Earth to the Cross, my debt to pay
 from the Cross the the grave
 from the grave to the Sky
 Lord I lift your name up high, "

Our DEBTS is paid in full by Jesus Christ and anyone making you feel guilty for not "tithing" is wrong to say the least. Giving from the heart, compassion for others, faith, being full of HIS grace, etc. are some of the only requirements God asks of his children since Christ made the ultimate sacrifice for mankind. Jesus Christ told us "it is easier for a Camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to make the kingdom of God, go figure why they want to be prosperous, never die, seed sowing (for their pockets) and what have you, it has no basis in Christianity or the Holy Bible.
I pray that God open the eyes of everyone's heart so they can really see him, these are the end times and Jesus warned us about Wolves coming in as sheep to deceive his children, they are doing that now with all these interpretations that has no basis in the Bible or Christianity.
No wonder M. Gandhi was quoted as saying " I like Jesus Christ, I don't like Christians because you Christians are so much unlike your Christ"
Simple take : To serve him truly is to follow his ways and teachings and not some OLD LAW that has been fulfilled.

You guys that seem to want to pay "tithe" can go ahead and pay all you want. There a huge gap between paying a required % and giving from the heart, we all know there are costs associated with maintaining a Church or place of worship but it should still come from the heart. Jesus chastised the Pharisees for paying tithe on even the smallest of earnings but forgets "the weightier matters, like compassion, faithfulness, " yet some folks want to use that to justify today's greed, feel free. I would much rather give from my heart than follow these worn-out path that insults our collective intelligence.

Tithe is an OT law and practice that has no relevance these days that we're under his Grace. Jesus has paid the debt of all mankind (though you won't hear that from these "gospel entertainers/prosperity preachers) because that would affect their haul. Christians are mandated to study his Word and not allow it to be translated to them by dubious money hungry pastors to fund their foreign junkets or private jets, most of them won't even survive Mosaic laws but take just one to milk their congregations dry. Abraham was already a very rich man before he gave 10% of the spoils of war and allowed his men to take the rest. Why was Apostle Paul sewing Tents to make money instead of imposing tithes? Jesus is the Author and finisher of our faith and he didn't impose a tithe either because he is from the tribe of Judah and was not allowed to, Paul from the tribe of Benjamin couldn't collect either. Only the produce of the land was tithed in those days, let them show you passages where fishermen, tent makers, etc were charged tithes. Using the holy Bible to line your pockets and build castles here on earth instead of in Heaven is a WRONG doctrine and I am sure punishable on Judgment day as well, give from the heart is what Christians are instructed to do not an imposed %, wake up and educate your selves.