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We can deliver as many as you want wherever you are.

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Very low price.

5 months is nothing. Ask people living kn Epe precisely, Ibonwon, Mojoda area. You will be shocked when they tell you the last time they had electricity.

Bro. I don't really have a mod as friend perhaps you broke one of the rules.

For what you put up there, I may not be able to continue with another long explanation. Thanks by the way.

I have seen him several times. In my opinion, I don't think he is fraudulent as he appears to be really blind. He uses walking stick sometimes.

Your hard disk is bad. You need to change it.

Agreed. Your take?

musa ajebor: so plants are living things that are not conscious but they react to stimuli. Is that what u r saying? That their REACTION can be likened to acid+ base=salt+ water.?

Good. Follow these:

Heliotropism: Reaction to sunlight intensity and direction.

Phototropism: Reaction to sunlight.

Gravitropism: Reaction to gravity. We can go on and on.

Notice the word "reaction" not "conscious". Do you know that objects can be conscious of something but not reacting to it and other objects can react to something without being conscious of it . So there is a clear difference between reaction and consciousness.

musa ajebor: good enough answer.
Then going by ur earlier comment. If creations at initial stage only react b4 learning to be conscious of their environment. How has plants been able to react continually to stimuli without learning a thing since they are unintelligent.?

. ASTONISHING!

Alfa Seltzer: wtf?

Go through www.billbrouarf.com/intelligence.htm for your question about amoeba and thank me later.

Alfa Seltzer: Haha. Now you are cornered, you bring up intelligence. So amoeba proteus is intelligent? So the mango you are about to eat is intelligent? Ah! That palm tree is full of intelligence and will start solving calculus soon!

Yes. Stones repond to stimuli.

But let's come back to your conscious self because this is interesting. Exactly which parts of your bodies are conscious? Your nails? Teeth? Hair? Blood? Are they conscious?

For the second part. Do you know how you respond to stimuli? Someone needs basic biology here

Alfa Seltzer: Haha. Now you are cornered, you bring up intelligence. So amoeba proteus is intelligent? So the mango you are about to eat is intelligent? Ah! That palm tree is full of intelligence and will start solving calculus soon!

Yes. Stones repond to stimuli.

But let's come back to your conscious self because this is interesting. Exactly which parts of your bodies are conscious? Your nails? Teeth? Hair? Blood? Are they conscious?

Lol. Shooting yourself in the foot.

Before I go ahead. Do you know the difference between living and non-living things with their characteristics. I think that is elementary biology. If you don't, then I can't help you. If you do then factor it in the scheme of our discussion and come back to thank me later for enlightenment.

Your answer is full of oxymoron when compared with your line of argument.

Alfa Seltzer: Haha. Now you are cornered, you bring up intelligence. So amoeba proteus is intelligent? So the mango you are about to eat is intelligent? Ah! That palm tree is full of intelligence and will start solving calculus soon!

Yes. Stones repond to stimuli.

But let's come back to your conscious self because this is interesting. Exactly which parts of your bodies are conscious? Your nails? Teeth? Hair? Blood? Are they conscious?

Lol. So consciousness and reaction are directly proportional. Interesting! Utterly wrong unless you prove otherwise.

I am conscious because I am intelligent enough to know things around me. I have sensory cells that respond to stimuli. Now you know why I am conscious. Can we say the same for stone?

Alfa Seltzer: You are the one doing wuruwuru.

I have already said why I believe everything, including formicas are conscious. You have yet to tell us why you are conscious.

Let me state it again. Formicas are conscious because they react to their environment.

Now, tell us why you think you are conscious.

musa ajebor: @ ABU
Using ur example of a baby learning after reacting to external stimulus. Can the Same be said of a plant also learning after experiencing an external stimulus.?

Is plant intelligent enough to learn?

Bros, don't use my response to develop yours. Say you don't know and let us rest the case. Nigerians with corner-corner

Alfa Seltzer: Prove that you are conscious.

Prove that formica is conscious.

Alfa Seltzer: Prove that you are conscious.

Prove it.

Alfa Seltzer: yes.

Alfa Seltzer: We don't know if it is protecting itself. Stop confusing things.

We observe changes in its outer layer. Why those changes? Why is it different for a stone than other objects, say glass, that are in the same position? We know that stones are not alive but still they react when in contact with other elements. Which brings me back to my theory that they react due to a certain level of awareness. This is why I said they are conscious of their environment. Not alive!

You don't know if it is protecting itself but you concluded initially by asking me why did it want to protect itself.


Glass will react with Hydrofluoric acid. Stone will react to other substances in the environment to appear forming layer. Glass and Stone do react but they are not conscious of anything. No consciousness, no awareness. They react.

"They react due to certain level of awareness". Bros or gal, this is very wrong. You can prove me otherwise except you want to redefine awareness.

This actually got me cracking. I was somewhere in Ile Ife in 2002 in December. I woke up one day to notice that the formica on the used as the top of a top was rolling up from the edge. I don't need a rocket science to know that it was due to the harmattan. Can we say this came to be as a result of awareness/ consciousness of the formica?[quote author=musa ajebor][/quote]

I hope you can distinguish between living and non living things. I am discussing non living here. Now answer the question, how can stone (non living) protect itself?

Alfa Seltzer: How can a tree put on a bark? Where did it pick it from?

Alfa Seltzer: When you put on a sweater, are you protecting your internal organs or are you reacting to the environment?

How can a stone put on a layer. Where did it pick it from?

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Is the stone protecting its internal layers or it is reacting to the environment?

Alfa Seltzer: Get a stone, break it. You will see that the outer layer is different from the inner layers because the outer layers changed and became protective of the internal layers. If you leave the broken stone for some years, the exposed former inner layer would also change its texture and colour. Now, why would a stone want to protect its internal layers?

Alfa Seltzer: You seem to be contradicting yourself.
First, how is consciousness different from awareness?
Secondly, how can you react to something you are unconscious of? Give an example.
Thirdly, You are wrong in saying that some objets don't respond to stimulus. They do. Just not in a way you may expect.
Fourth, Does the law of motion you quoted applied to things you would describe as "conscious"? If yes, what differentiates them from other objects?
Finally your last sentence shows that you haven't really thought things through. Are your fingers zombies or are they conscious? Are they being made to type on this thread? If yes, then your definition qualifies them as zombies. Such goes with every other part of your body. So maybe you are a sum part of interacting zombies.
But you may just say that they are conscious as they are attached to you body and thus obey your will and brain. If so, then artificial fingers are also conscious. No?

No. I am not contradicting myself. You got me wrong.

First, consciousness is not different from awareness but CONSCIOUSNESS IS DIFFERENT FROM REACTION.

Secondly, Off point "You can react to something you are not conscious of at initial stage. After reaction, you may be conscious of it (learning). Take a new born baby as an example. Is he conscious of everything around him including spring, grass, rats etc? Until when you react to something as a human that you are aware of it (learning)". My point "Reaction takes place between unconscious entities. For example, Acid+ Base = Salt. Acid and Base were made to react to produce Salt. Can you tell me Acid and Base are Conscious? Note I said "Take inanimate objects as zombies who cannot make but could be made or could be made to make". Acid and Base are not conscious of the environment (devoid of sensation) but they react. No?

Thirdly, Some objects do respond to stimulus while some don't. Those that you think do only react with or to other stimuli. No? Care to explain in what way they respond? Go straight to the point.

Fourthly, the law of motion applies to inanimate objects only. I have not veered from that. That is why I said again "Take inanimate objects as zombies who cannot make but could be made or could be made to make".

Lastly, I am the one conscious here not my fingers. My fingers are parts of me. I control them. They don't control themselves. Dumb (plastic) fingers don't respond to stimuli. They are only made to respond to stimuli. They are parts of the zombies. More?

Alfa Seltzer: Don't hurt your brain too much. You don't want it to lose consciousness.

The subject matter is as easy as QED. Except you racked your brain before you came up with something.

You got my explanation all wrong. I will dissect your response when I am less busy. BRB

Alfa Seltzer: You seem to be contradicting yourself.
First, how is consciousness different from awareness?
Secondly, how can you react to something you are unconscious of? Give an example.
Thirdly, You are wrong in saying that some objets don't respond to stimulus. They do. Just not in a way you may expect.
Fourth, Does the law of motion you quoted applied to things you would describe as "conscious"? If yes, what differentiates them from other objects?
Finally your last sentence shows that you haven't really thought things through. Are your fingers zombies or are they conscious? Are they being made to type on this thread? If yes, then your definition qualifies them as zombies. Such goes with every other part of your body. So maybe you are a sum part of interacting zombies.
But you may just say that they are conscious as they are attached to you body and thus obey your will and brain. If so, then artificial fingers are also conscious. No?

Care to explain how rocks respond to stimulus

musa ajebor: I think alfa is correct to an extent.
If u read my post u will realise that I mentioned that there is a degree of variation of consciousness in animate an inanimate creations.
U cannot compare the extent of consciousness of a human with that of a plant. And that of a plant with that of a rock. And this does not mean the rock and the plant is unaware.
Talking of stimuli, plants respond to several stimuli such as touch,light,gravity etc.but still u cannot compare this with the complex nerve impulse of the human brain.
Now for the fact that the rock does not respond to such sensations in like manner does not make it unaware.