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For those who seek biblical truth on tithes, go through this rather long drama sketch that covers most if not all the issues. --------------------- As a sequel to my last article debunking Mr. Enoch Adejare Adeboye’s claims about tithing, Believers are not subject to the Tithe, I hereby present a court scenario in which the General Overseer of the Redeemed Christian Church of God stands before the Great Judge of all the earth, the Lord Jesus Christ, on this subject. Enjoy the conversation: Jesus: Enoch, you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn’t tithe they would go to hell. How do you plead? Pastor Enoch: I plead not guilty, sir. I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold. Jesus: Is it not true, Enoch, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold? Pastor Enoch: Yes, you are exactly right, that’s what I just told you. Jesus: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13. But it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn’t he? Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose you are right. Jesus: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek? Pastor Enoch: No. Jesus: Enoch, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek? Pastor Enoch: Well, just once. Jesus: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week? Pastor Enoch: No; it does not. Jesus: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek? Pastor Enoch: Well, the Bible says it was from the plunders of war. Jesus: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war? Pastor Enoch: Yes that’s what the Bible says. Jesus: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe? Pastor Enoch: That is what the scripture seems to indicate. Jesus: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else? Pastor Enoch: I guess not Jesus: You guess not! You pastor one of the largest denominations on the planet and you are only guessing? Is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone? Pastor Enoch: No; it is not written anywhere that I have seen. Jesus: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek? Pastor Enoch: I believe it says plunder? Jesus: So plunder could be any number of things? Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose. Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people’s possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money; correct? Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. You are correct; it does not say just money. Jesus: As a matter of fact, money is never mentioned in that account at all; is that correct, Enoch? Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir; money is never mentioned; just goods and food and people. Jesus: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all? Pastor Enoch: That is right. Jesus: I only have one last question for you, Enoch. Did God command Abraham to give this plunder as tithe to Melchizedek? Pastor Enoch: No; it appears that he did this voluntarily. Jesus: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their monthly salary to a local church? Jesus: Considering all the evidence, I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain. Pastor Enoch: Sir, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example. Jesus: Let’s see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me, Enoch. Pastor Enoch: In Genesis chapter 28, starting at verse 20 it says, ‘Jacob vowed a vow, saying, “If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God’s house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you.”‘ Jesus: You said people should follow Jacobs’s example, is that right, Enoch? Pastor Enoch: Yes; that is right. He vowed to give a tenth and we should too. Jesus: Let me point out one thing for you, Enoch. Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob’s example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right? Pastor Enoch: That is not what I meant. Jesus: What did you mean then? Pastor Enoch: That we should give God a tenth also. Jesus: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time. Pastor Enoch: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow. Jesus: It is obvious that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place. Pastor Enoch: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe. Jesus: So far, all you have done is taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence. Pastor Enoch: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, “Will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” So you see sir, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us. Jesus: Answer me this, Enoch, were you aware that I never required anyone to tithe money? Pastor Enoch: No I didn’t know that. Jesus: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money. Pastor Enoch: Sir, that is because they didn’t have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead. Jesus: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis – and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses? Pastor Enoch: I don’t know. Jesus: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know, I fulfilled the law while I was on earth. The Law is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished. Jesus: And once again, you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money? Pastor Enoch: I do not know of any. Jesus: So if God never changed it from food to money who did? Pastor Enoch: Man must have. Jesus: So far all you have done, Enoch, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have? Pastor Enoch: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that You told us to tithe. Jesus: Ok; let me hear it. Pastor Enoch: You said in Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.” Surely, You were saying there that we should be tithing. Jesus: Let me ask you a question, who was I talking to in that passage? Pastor Enoch: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees. Jesus: Are you and your members scribes or Pharisees? Pastor Enoch: No sir; God forbid!. Jesus: I also said in that passage, “You have left undone the weightier matters of the law“. Are we under the law, Enoch? Pastor Enoch: No. Jesus: Why not? Pastor Enoch: Because You fulfilled it, and it passed away. Jesus: When did I fulfill the law? Pastor Enoch: When You were crucified. Jesus: So the law was still in effect until My death? Pastor Enoch: That is correct sir. Jesus: I think you know where I am going with this; don’t you? Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. Since You had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding, the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also. Jesus: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing? Pastor Enoch: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin. Jesus: Was money mentioned there? Pastor Enoch: No sir; it was not. Jesus: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say? Pastor Enoch: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We had to build that million-seater cathedral to accomodate the people who come for Holy Ghost Festival yearly, the salaries of other pastors have to be paid. So many other things. We depend on the money from the people. Jesus: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Not to mention that all those items you listed are problems you created for yourelves. They are not My agenda. You were pursuing your agenda. Jesus: Now to the more greivous consequences of your enforcing the tithe on believer. What did Paul write in Galatians 5:4 about attempting to follow the Law? Pastor Enoch: That if they obeyed any part of the old Jewish law, including the law of circumcision, in order to be right (justified) with God, they have fallen from grace, or lost their salvation. Jesus: Do you admit that like circumcision, tithing was part of the law? Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir. Jesus: Now if obeying the law of circumcision would cause gentile Christians of Paul’s day to “fall from grace”, one would have to conclude that obeying another old law; “The law of tithing” would have the same results on them today; that is to say, it will cause them to fall away from the grace of God. Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I suppose so. Jesus: In other words, you are admitting that your teaching the tithe is actually sending people down the road to hell? Pastor Enoch: That was not what I intended, sir. Jesus: Nevertheless, that is the result of your actions – your ministry. How many of those one billion members (not counting the non-members who heard you and believed you) do you suppose have been turned aside unknowingly this way? Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I have no idea, sir. Pastor Enoch: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. Infact, I will go and take my words back. As many people as possible must hear this. THE END I have given the narration a good ending. I hope that someone close to Mr. Adeboye loves him enough and has enough balls to bring this issue to his attention. You will be saving not only his soul but the souls of millions of others who believe his grace-defying, grace-denying doctrine of tithing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Credits: This narration was crafted and adapted from my previous article, Believers are not subject to the Tithe, and from materials put up at http://tithing.christian-things.com/articles.html ---------------------- Source: Pressing for the Crown |
I am sure the roads that Fashola and his NL boy, Eko Ile travelled to Oxford did not have potholes because they were resurfaced a few weeks before his visit, trailers do not pass on them and rain has not been falling there for so many months ago |
Wallie:It is always refreshing to see that we Nigerians are capable of being civil in our discussions even when we initially disagree. I wish and hope more compatriots will do the same. |
Eko Ile:What Jonathan said at a political rally was that "The southwest is too important to be left in the hands of rascals" I am sure those who understand English can see that he was in no way dissing yorubas but rather praising them as "too important" hence the need for them (the yorubas) not to be led by rascals. |
Two words descriptive - useless visit by - useless people |
favouredjb:sorry ma'am but it was not Tinubu who said this: "Our Government in Lagos State has the record of being the most efficient in the country today because of the quality of personnel it keeps and continues to attract from within and outside the country".Btw is this Tinubu's government or Fashola's ![]() |
ronkebp:i think the bold part is what makes a girl marriageable i.e. beyond dateable. the red words is what will keep her man from straying PERMANENTLY away assuming it means she remains very fcukable. my 2 cents. |
Eko Ile:such as the ones recruited for LG elections on Saturday: In Oshodi Local Council, people also protested alleged imposition of candidates by a top official of the National Union of Road Transport Workers (NURTW) in the state, who was said to be very close to a top party leader.Was this not what Alao-Akala was very good at doing in Oyo State? |
Kx:na original colo mentality. Listen here from the master: Fela Kuti The 18m Lagosians he serves are not worthy of such gesture as they do not request any accountability from him or the legislators and LG councillors. Meanwhile no Nigerian university including LASU is in the first 400 ranked worldwide!!! Anyway were the lecturers not on strike for many months? Misplaced priority. |
colo(nial) mentality- pure & simple there are many parallels between the imported arab (islam) & jewish (xtianity) religions with ifa (yoruba oracle) stories. |
@ Eko Ile, Thank you for your very long response. However you did not answer my simple Yes or No question: Your low cost housing link:Hopefully you will find time to reply to help me "get real" |
Pifa:That is what happens when you rob 18 million Peters (Lagosians) to pay a few Pauls (Tinubu, Fashola, Skyebank, ACN goons including their resident NL propaganda expert) You create needless insecurity and fear of armed robbers, assassins, area boys and other miscreants. Only God knows how many people have died in their self-imposed prisons with burglary proofs in the event of fire. I remember reading something years ago about retd. Col. Lawan Gwadabe's family members dying in such a residential inferno. Can you imagine what would happen if there was free education, higher education schorlarship & bursary, free primary health care, rural development etc ![]() I noticed there is no landscaping in this complex. This is rather curious given that the Lagos government has made the greening of Lagos an environmental mantra.Thought you should have realised by now that ACN is just a typical political party promise everything do very little or nothing. In short they are NATO- No Action, Talk Only. The same way they talk about true federalism but have done nothing at NASS with increased legislators to sponsor amendment of constitution to that effect even in soft areas such as VAT distribution. |
oyb:and what is the basis of the above? @ OP smart crook/ smart fraudster compared to (Obasanjo = half smart crook) compared to (Bode George = dumb crook) |
smart thief! compared to dumb thief = Alao Akala compared to half-smart thief = Gbenga Daniel |
@ jason, would it be possible for you to obtain the Lagos state budget figures for 1979 to 1983? I will greatly appreciate receiving the figures anytime soon. Anyone else who can access these figures should also feel free to share them with me here. Thanks in advance. |
@ playmode & jason, thanks for your critical analysis so far of the economics of this all-that-glitters-is-not-gold project from BRF. @Eko Ile, Your low cost housing link: 362 units has a reputed cost of 7m. Is this correct? If so who is considered a low income earner in LASG civil service i.e. the immediate employees of Mr. Fashola ? |
[quote author=Mr--Why link=topic=782026.msg9345093#msg9345093 date=1318687654]The West including USA does not go to where they won't profit. Even the so called aid they give to African countries are collected back in some way.[/quote]Is that how you work and expend your efforts without being rewarded ![]() Is that how you live your life and take care of your family or was that how your parents took care of you - working for free and not being paid adequate wages It is reasoning like yours that makes Africa and Africans so re.tarded and begging for alms (aids) from Europe, America and now China. Can you imagine the millions of dollars, TACS deployment and military assistance Nigeria gives other African countries without backing it up with commercial interests despite our significant manufacturing capacity, technological know-how and skilled manpower ![]() Bunch of slowpokes ![]() |
[quote author=Hye-Bits link=topic=781646.msg9339657#msg9339657 date=1318610373]anonimi, What majority of you don't have is the ability to reason critically. In economic and social sense, not all could afford the same style of life. The estate I live at present was built by Jakande and I bought the property for 8M. So, tell me what is the population of Lagos residence that can afford the same property at present. Mind you, taking the current population of Lagos as seed in your argument.[/quote]Listen to me very carefully- Fashola budgets N450b ($3b) for 15-18m people including N240b from their own taxes in the form of IGR. Jakande had about 5-6m people to cater for in his four years of government BUT had a very small fraction of Fashola's revenue to work with and yet the masses felt his impact in housing, education, health, transportation (remember Metro tha Buhari cancelled?). Let us not even compare with Awo's years in the 50s and 60s, which were the glorious years of the Western region and the yorubas. That will be going too far. Eko Ile and his ACN goons want to hoodwink us to benchmark their performance against PDP looters and military dictators, thinking we are all fools. Waht some of us are saying is very simple - we deserve better, much better after over six decades of Awo's free education from which most of these part-time and full time looters benefitted. |
Eko Ile:so the construction could have been done without employing people and feeding them and Eko Ile thinks it is worth pulling off our pants and celebrating the mediocrity that passes for brillance in our land of the blind where the one eyed is king. |
Fashola's resident NL propagandist, Eko Ile, has been unable to say how much these flats will cost the targeted "middle precipitate upper income strata" I suppose that means directors/senior managers and above in LASG ministries and parastatals should be able to comfortably pay for it through Fashola's 6% mortgage based on their taxed SALARIES ![]() And where are are the "social housing provision" sites, which presumably means for low income people like Jakande did in the early 80s. Ironically, ACN's Abesan campaign for next week's LG elections was held with one of the Jakande estates in the background. |
^^^ I see that you prefer to compare yourself with the worst performers and claim to be a superstar, hmmm good for you. is that how you do to your kids, if you have them i.e. if they come 17th in a class of 20, you congratulate them and say at least they are not the last. Or maybe that is how your parents brought you up to be successful- also by benchmarking your report card with the worst in your classes |
“The governor has been able to turn Lagos into a mega and very friendly city with the meagre resources available in the state,’’ he told a rally of ACN supporters at Onikan Stadium, Lagos.over N20b monthly frtom IGR only is N240b annually not including mega bucks from FG allocation to the state and its LGs. It can only be magre after the Ashiwaju of Area Boys has siphoned the large chunk to himself at the expense of sedated Lagosians. Depilot:shows the disdain in which they hold the electorate and teh fact that we have not mobilised, educated and informed ourselves ENOUGH on our rights and the accountability of these people to US. |
While it is ok to ask the FG to fix its roads in Lagos, Tinubu should not forget to ask Fashola and the 57 LGAs to also fix the roads under their jurisdiction. How many feeder roads (the ones directly in front of residences etc) in Lagos state are tarred, with covered drains that are cleaned daily? Tinubu should stop playing politics of casting PDP alone as the no-performer. |
Let's remember that the LG authorities, which are the closest to residents also have a role to play in the citizen's life. It is not just the state and federal that is responsible for everything. This is very important to note as most state IECs aer now organising LG council elections. -------------------- The functions of Local Government Councils in Nigeria are contained in the 4th Schedule of the Constitution of the Federal Government of Nigeria. To fulfil these functions they must deliver the following services to which you have a right as citizens resident in your particular Local Government Area |
moderatorr:thanks a million. no mind my naija bros. we too used to miltary bullies- when will we recover from the hangover, 12 years into our democracy ![]() is that not why most people will rather resort to calling police, soldiers even KAI, LASTMA and fire brigade to harass their debtors and tenants instead of getting a lawyer to write and prosecute the debtor if he still refuses to pay Btw, how many Lagosians know their area councillor candidates for the LG elections this month ![]() |
^^^ 200m/episode is outrageous. maybe for a season. and that is why they are finding ingenious ways to recoup their investment, such as the french translation. i am almost certain they will be doing DVD of the series in due course. |
TCD:I concur with your assessment and it's actually being translated into French. I saw an episode on RTI- the Ivorian telly earlier today. What a nice surprise. |
Just bumped into the french translation of Tinsel on RTI- The Ivorian national TV. Quite impressive for a Nigerian/SA production and the translation was very well done in a professional way. Like those South American operas that we were stuck with some years ago. Kudos to DSTV crew. |
edicolove:Welcome to the real world. There is not much difference between ACN and PDP. It's like 6 and half a dozen. Do you know how many ACN elected politicians were ex-PDP? That includes its Senate Leader, George Akume, former governor of Benue State. Btw, how many progressive bills have been sponsored by the ACN caucaus in the NASS given its increased numbers and "alliance" with Tambuwal ![]() |
birdman:which planet are you living on? have you been to libya or know anyone who has been there? |
islamrules:Thanks and just to reinforce your idea- NATO (Western christian nations) also intervened to stop the genocide against muslims in the Srebrenica massacre When will the black man grow up from his simplex mindset ![]() |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 1850 1851 1852 1853 1854 1855 1856 1857 1858 (of 1886 pages)


