₦airaland Forum

@TayoD

No best to leave it how it is. If there is 'clarification' then people will abuse it. That means if a particular action is not mentioned, certain people would seize the opportunity to carry it out and declare it is legal to do so for the reason being it has not been counted amongst the other acts that have been clarified.


I don't see what is so vague about treating a human being in a dignified manner, which requires acknowledgment of their rights.

@TayoD
So what is he trying to do? you never gave your own explanantion.

Remember when it was revealed that Bush had secret prisons where he totured suspected terrorists? Well he now wants to amend article 3 to enable him to humiliate and degrade them without risk of prosecution.

Sijien
I am waiting for a reply. What is the truth?

@TayoD

here is the link to Colin Powell's letter opposing Bush's anti-terrorism legislation

http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2006-09/25385371.pdf

also see attached

@Sijien

What is the truth?

@TayoD

I also commented on Bush declaring that his God told him to invade Iraq. I am surprised you didnt find out about it.

@Davidylan

Take a look at Afghanistan and Iraq. Who installed their government?

TayoD:
@brown-eyes,

You could be right. But we need to realise that the West only recently began to advocate for democracy in the middle east as a direct strategy to combat the threat of terrorism.

The West realises that some of these guys are violent because they are unable to make there voice heard and understood as it would in a democratic setting. The West may be naive in this regard, but they at least feel that a democratic middle east with the people determining who their government is will do a lot to stem the growing frustration which have now been directed at the West, especially the ever popular US policy.

I feel the West are as guilty as the men who cannot tolerate the people's opinions. Instead of the people choosing their own government, they put in a puppet government to accomplish their own goals. That is not democracy at all. It is the same ol' game just different players this time around.

TayoD:
As long as you want to spread your religion to other lands while keeping others away from yours, the troubles will continue.

that can work both ways. Western beliefs in democracy and middle eastern beliefs in Islam

@ Nilla

welcome back

@ otokx

No one wants to know about history. Maybe the plan is to reduce the world population who knows.

davidylan:
@ Brown-eyes.

I am sure you did not bother to see that that quote on the rise of European Islamophobia was a direct quote froom BBC Sept 11! I am sure leaders of the US and Europe know much more than you do about the invisible hands of Islam behind the recent wave of terrorism! I would rather believe Angela Markel than your empty arguments.

I did. and i still say diddums. Oh David you are so gullible

davidylan:
Yeah i remember the "innocent" people in the middle east! Any time they threaten to liberate Nigeria from their caves of deciet and religious intolerance i can't but remember them!

You slate people for not considering the innocent people involved yet you cannot fathom the fact that Middle Eastern people are caught up in this as well. Well shame on you Davidylan. What's with the anger? Let it go.

davidylan:
I am asking myself what the US did to:
a. provoke northern nigerian muslims to kill their southern counterparts over a cartoon drawn by a dane!
b. provoke nasrallah and his horde of hizballah murderers to kill 8 Isreali soldiers and kidnap 2
c. Provoke Sunni muslims to kill shiite muslims in Iraq and vice cersa
d. Provoke the killings in Sudan, Somalia!
e. provoke a wave of suicide bombings in Kenya, Java, Mumbai, London, Madrid - Perhaps those places are also in the US too!

Yes good at least its got you thinking, so now let's discuss how all this came about. TayoD made a list a while back. Care to contribute?

@Davidylan

Your compliments, although delightful, are getting too much. People might start to talk.

Fearful Europe feels post-9/11 chill
On the fifth anniversary of the 11 September attacks against the US, Europeans agree with Americans that terrorism inspired by Muslim fundamentalism is a big threat to their lives.
But Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, echoing European anguish over reports of secret CIA jails and alleged torture in Europe, said: "Our battle against Islamic terrorism will only succeed if we cultivate respect for human rights."

More propoganda to instill fear into the people.
You need to get over the Islam aspect as well. Notice how it first started off with war on terror now its been upgraded to war on islamic terrorism.

Muslims in Europe believe Islamophobia is on the rise.

Well ofcourse it is

The poll by the German Marshall Fund of the US found as many as 56% of all Europeans now see Islam as "not compatible with their democracy

aah diddums!

Just more proof that indeed Islam has NOTHING to do with terrorism, the recent rise in terror must be an offshoot of arab/muslim angst against US policy, just what that policy has got to do with innocent Spaniards, Indians, Australians, English, Kenyans and Nigerians remains to be seen!

dont forget the innocent people in the Middle East. Did you get to watch 911 Loose Change?


We should be asking ourselves what did the US do to make such people react in this manner. No one in their right mind _{except for George Bush and a few loonies} will go to attack people for no apparent reason. People need to look beyond religion and the best way forward is to look at the foreign policies the West put in place.

@Kaecy5

@brown eyes

but do u have connections with nasaralla he would be ina better postion to tell us

Now what is that all about?

@Mariory

@Brown-Eyes
Do you ever read your own comments and try to understand how you got yourself so confused?

I see you just couldn't keep away from me

Brown-Eyes,
Quote from: Mariory on Yesterday at 09:38:40 AM

[b]Why is it that the fertile recruiting ground for Osama and his guys is the mosque? Why don't they go to the Church to recruit?

That is because it is Muslims being attacked and as a Christian would you be prepared to fight for another faith?

I am so sure it was you who asked me that question seems i am not the only one suffering from selective amnesia
Anyway Afam provided you with a much better answer than mine which only seems to drag us deeper into this religious issue.

Anyway, can you provide the proof that it is only muslims that are under the so-called U.S. attacks as you claimed?

Now where in that text did i state only Muslims were being attacked?

With regards to you labeling Muslims as terrorists

But the facts reveal over 99% of them are Muslims.

That is why i had to bring in the IRA as an example to show terrorists could come from anywhere. Can you also recall the Jewish terrorists in the 1940s?

Since you and some others are the once blaming U.S. policies for everything, why don't you tell us what those policies are instead of asking those of us who don't believe that such policies exists to manufacture one for you.


I thought it might help to get your mind off religion. Oh well my bad!

texazzpete:
Why are you so keen to find a link between accusations of terrorism and islam? It seems like it'd make your day if you could get a nugget of information that shouts "Hezbollah is terrorist because it's a muslim body".
No such luck, i'm afraid. here's what i culled from wikipedia

Who me? Why is everyone on my case for the wrong reasons? Actually you should be directing that at others on this thread.

texazzpete:
Funny enough, Only the US, Israel and Four other countries consider Hezbollah a terrorist movement, though after their recent antics im sure the EU will 'upgrade' their status. Can you blame the US, after Hezbollah blew up a marine base, killing over 200 marines.

Nilla mentioned this earlier on. EU meaning the West, no surprise there.

texazzpete:
But here's a sure guide: one of the UN definition of terrorist states that a terrorist movemnt is one that strives for political change through the deliberate target of civillians and non-combatants.
So to be a terrorist you must be seeking a clearly defined goal, and your manifesto must include the deliberate targeting of civillians and non-combatants in order to achieve said goals.


that's why it's wrong to accuse the US and Israel of terrorims, when it's not in their manifesto. In fact, a millitary prosecutor in the US recommended the death penalty for 4 Us soldiers for killing a family in Iraq.
Funny how all the busy URL posters didnt see that one

UN? The one US and Israel walked over._{sorry stamped all over}.

So if US or Israel hit civilians by 'mistake' is it known as collateral damage? I am surprised civilians could get killed with the sophistication of the weaponry they have.
How many Lebanese died again?
How many Iraqi civilians died?
How many Somalians died?
2? 20? 35?

Recommending is totally different from carrying out. Did they dish out the death penalty? In Britain they do a lot of recommend but nothing gets done.

texazzpete:
raining katyushas into civillian areas is not a good way to get yourself off the terrorist list, let me tell ya.

Same could be said for Israel http://hrw.org/reports/2006/lebanon0806/

texazzpete:
Wonder when people would realize that 1 million african kids die of malaria every year, far more than the death tools in the entire middle east. Guess starving, sickly kids aint as sensational as bearded, well fed men blowing themselves up.
if heckling, 'peacemaking' countries could hand out as much foreign aid and free medicine as the 'warmongering' US, maybe that number could be significantly reduced,

Well give a dog a bone!

Starving sickly kids are the results of interferences by the West who then turn around and hand over 'aid' which then adds to Cycle of Third World Debt.

@ TayoD

TayoD:
@Brown-eyes,

This will be the last time I will try to explain to you that I do not hate anybody. I don't have the capacity to do that. It is such a waste of energy and it never solves anything. I hate Islam does not mean I hate the Muslims. I have muslims in my extended family and I relate with them just fine. I love them with all my heart but I hate the religion they are into.

You are giving out mixed signals. Decide whether you are out for peace or against Islam and the people that follow the faith

I don't hate muslims and I never say they are bad people.

Aren 't they wrong-doers? What would you expect us to call them: traitors, resistance fighters? There is only one thing that binds all these suicide bombers together: Islam.


I never said muslims are wrong-doers for following that religion. All I said is that the religion promotes violence in this day and age and is highly intolerant.

I don't know all about Islam religion, but I know enough to know it doesn't encourage peaceful co-existence unless in a situation where Islam is dominant.

So have you had someone teach you the Qu'ran for you to conclude that my conclusions are wrong?

Maybe you need to do some reading up yourself about Muhammad. He was a war-monger who encouraged even the raping of women in war. His hands were soiled in other people's blood and he happens to be the role model for a billion plus people today.

TayoD:
@Brown-eyes,

You are only sounding like the people here in the U.S. who cry hate when we fight against homosexuality. I, like some, hate the practice and lifestyle of homosexuality, but I will lay down my life to save a homosexual just as I would a straight person. Condemnation of the lifestyle does not equate condemnation of the person.

You already called Muslims wrong doers. Is that not condemning them?
Maybe hate is not the right word but you seem mighty persistant on labeling Muslims as terrorists.

Anti - semitic? Well if that is the name given to those who oppose Israel i guess i am one. Where are you based? States?

TayoD:
@Brown-eyes,
I will be left with no choice but to ignore you if you can't make a dinstinction between these concepts, because it only shows that you have such a myopic view that is beyond repair.

Distinction between what? Your yo yoing about? Again i stress, get over religion and face the real motives behind the troubles. Post the US policies kaecy5 wants so badly so that we can discuss them and find out why it drives people so mad they want to hurt the US. If you want to carry on with religion then fine i wont be forcing you to give it up with threats.

TayoD:
@Brown-eyes,

While you may choose to ignore the role of religion in these conflicts, others consider it a major factor that must be dealt with without leaving other factors out. Your stance can be likened to saying all we need to prevent the killings we witness in the North is to keep Igbos and Christians from provoking their Muslim and Hausa hosts without dealing with the motiviating factor behind the killing: Islam.

The situation in nigeria is totally different from what is happening between the hezbollah and Israelis. The Middle east and US. I cannot comment on the religious problems as i am not experiencing it. Like i said you feel Islam is the main reason for war i say not. Let us agree to disagree.

TayoD:
@Brown-eyes,
Anyway, can you provide the proof that it is only muslims that are under the so-called U.S. attacks as you claimed?

I dont recall claiming that so just paste it here to jog my memory

TayoD:
@Brown eyes,Mmm. I thought you had earlier claimed that people of all faiths were attacked in Lebanon. Why is it just a Muslim thing now?

So do you now agree that it is a 'faith' thing? For you to say that Christians will not fight along-side these muslim suicide bombers only goes to show an acknowledgement that this is a religious war.

You wha'? Cor blimey! you dont half get things twisted! I don't even know where to go on this. One topic at a time plz! Now which one you want to direct your hatred to? Hizbollah or the entire Muslim world? I never agreed it was a faith thing i was merely attempting to answer a question you directed at me about Osama recruiting in the Mosques rather than recruiting in the Churches. Now you go and dump all this on me.

Take it back and come better than that Cuz.

Davidylan takes this discussion too seriously. LOL

@ texazzpete

Well it seems Conspiracy Theorists must be onto something important because now, much to George Bush's annoyance, people are beginning to turn to alternative media in order to get real news.

Have you watched 911 Loose Change? They mention some of the 'Terrorists' that been killed during 9/11 were found to be living and well. They also had no part in the hijacking. Is that true?

I never set out to look intelligent but hey if you think so, that's a compliment.

@Kaecy5

Do you know the US policies coz i sure don't. If you come across them pass them over to me so i can take it all down. Thanks

One thing i need to know, are the Hizbollah perceived as a terrorist organisation because innocent lives were taken during the skirmish with Israel, they oppose Israel's interests or it is because of their religion?

bluenubian:
o oh! , where are all the bible experts around here when u need em?

LMAO

jagunlabi:
multiple personalities writing about multiple Gods.

Yes that could be it. When the bible was translated, instead of using the names of the gods, they just inserted God. This made God out to be suffering from dissociative identity disorder. One minute he is a jealous angry God next he is a merciful God etc. One minute he is telling Moses to get the people out of Egypt then the next he is hardening Pharoah's heart.

texazzpete:
Lithuania has the highest suicide rate in the world. there's nothing courageous about suicide, in fact it's downright cowardly most times. Lots of courage could be attributed perhaps to the japanese Kamikaze pilots and the samurai of old who commited ritual suicide at the drop of a hat. In the japanese Shinsengumi unit in the 19th century, all members iof a patrol were expected to kill themselves by slashing their stomachs if their leader was killed. Compare and contrst that with an instant (painless) death by explosion with the sure promise of an afterlife filled with nubile virgins.
heck, suicide in the name of being a martyr is made damn easy in islam nowadays.

Why the Japanese and not the Muslims? When you find someone that has spoken about the impact of exploding after blowing themselves to bits then let me know.

texazzpete:
Focus on the moment, not the old testament. We can no more use the old testament for an analogy in this day and age.
When the muslim world blabs about the Crusades, perhaps they should pay restitution for the invasion of spain,

I don't see religion as the cause of this war but it seems like others are focused on religion yet when their religion is questioned, it is becomes unnecessary to discuss religion.

texazzpete:
Uranium bombs dropped on their countries? What exactly are you talking about? Anyone been nuked recently?

I missed out the word depleted but i think you knew that already.

texazzpete:
lets Blame US for everything, right from Abacha and Abiola's death to the feud between Obj and atiku, to the high fuel price to nigeria, abi?
My PDA crashed yesterday. these CIA people sef, them no dey rest?

You can jest all you want. US bit more than she could chew.

Mariory:
I assure you, they will ignore what you've just posted and continue rambling on. It is the way it's been in this thread.

That's rich coming from you

TayoD:
I never said muslims are wrong-doers for following that religion. All I said is that the religion promotes violence in this day and age and is highly intolerant.

But you called them wrong -doers and i am asking for what reason you call Muslims wrong-doers. How does it promote violence? You keep on skirting round my questions.

TayoD:
So have you had someone teach you the Qu'ran for you to conclude that my conclusions are wrong?

Don't worry about me, i did not claim to have read the Quran. Answer the question. Did you read the whole Quran by yourself with a person to guide you through as you will have in bible study?

TayoD:
Of course it is evil for advocating violence. Imagine the world today if Islam encourages turning the other cheek as the Bible teaches and encourages.

Look at what happened to African countries that has practiced turning the other cheek. They got colonised and raided of their wealth and the perpetrators came in the name of Christianity. You keep on overlooking the Old testament which i believe Islam was based on.

TayoD:
Maybe you need to do some reading up yourself about Muhammad. He was a war-monger who encouraged even the raping of women in war. His hands were soiled in other people's blood and he happens to be the role model for a billion plus people today.

This needs to be transferred to the religion forum where Muslims can access this and defend themselves. In the meantime give me the quotes in the Quran to back this statement up. Nothing wrong with being a war monger especially when your country is under threat is there now? As for encouraging the raping of women in war, i don't know about that. need some evidence. If he, being an evil war monger who loved soiling his hands with the blood of others, is the role model for a billion plus people today, i guess we are all finished.

TayoD:
I just think you are not following my argument or rather, you have failed to see my reasoning. To understand what Christianity teaches, look at Christ, not Christians. To understand what Islam teaches, look at Muhammad, not the terrorists, nor the clerics. You have rightly pointed out "if Christinas were following Jesus' example", but tell me, what example did Muhammad show to his billion plus followers today?

Post a topic in the religion forum and then we can dissect Christianity. You need to get out of the mentality that all Muslims are Terrorists to see the whole picture of this ongoing war.

TayoD:
All the Isrealites did were in the name of their king, not necessarily their God. They were a Theocratic State. I hope you will and are able to understand the differences.

If a person claims to be acting on behalf of God these days, they will be sent to the looney house _{except George Bush ofcourse}. In that case The the Israelis hanging out in the Middle East have no right to claim the land as theirs based on a promise provided by such a person.

TayoD:
I'm not overlooking the so-called U.S involvement. The U.S. is involved in every country on this planet. The average Briton feels like their country is now the 51st State of the Union. How many of them are blowing themselves up to protest this? Except some of the muslims among them who have been indoctrinated into Islam and are now blowing up the country that providesd them with welfare and a voice they would otherwise not have in the Arab countries.

The way you carry on one would assume you feel the welfare provided by the West is done out of the goodness of their hearts. If the US treated the British the way it treated Afghan and Iraq, they would have gone to war by now specially as Britain has adequate sophisticated weaponry to take the US on. That is why the US wants to make sure certain countries has no weaponry to match its own so that they can be interfered with. Consequences are you get people like sucide bombers who can reach Western soil when their own weapons can't.

TayoD:
You need to ask yourself a honest question. Why is it that the fertile recruiting ground for Osama and his guys is the mosque? Why don't they go to the Church to recruit?

That is because it is Muslims being attacked and as a Christian would you be prepared to fight for another faith?

Yes. Very informative

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501

It is either a case of multiple personalities

or

bluenubian:
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7