₦airaland Forum

So who won the war in the end or is there more fighting to follow?

There were three good arguments that Jesus was black:

1. He called everyone "brother".

2. He liked Gospel.

3. He couldn't get a fair trial.

But then there were three equally good arguments that Jesus was Jewish:

1. He went into his father's business.

2. He lived at home until he was 33.

3. He was sure his mother was a virgin and his mother was sure he was God.

But then there were three equally good arguments that Jesus was Italian:

1. He talked with his hands.

2. He had wine with every meal.

3. He used olive oil.

But then there were three equally good arguments that Jesus was a Californian:

1. He never cut his hair.

2. He walked around barefoot all the time.

3. He started a new religion.

But then there were three equally good arguments that Jesus was Irish:

1. He never got married.

2. He was always telling stories.

3. He loved green pastures.

But the most compelling evidence of all - three proofs that Jesus was a woman:

1. He had to feed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was no food.

2. He kept trying to get a message across to a bunch of men who just didn't get it.

3. Even when he was dead, he had to get up because there was more work for him to do.

TayoD:
@Brown-eyes,Aren 't they wrong-doers? What would you expect us to call them: traitors, resistance fighters? There is only one thing that binds all these suicide bombers together: Islam. It don't matter if there nationalities is American, Briton, Saudi, Yemen, Pakistan, Nigerian etc. The common factor is Islam and that is the galvanising force behind them. And by the way, I have read the Qu'ran and observed the lifestyle of the Prophet of Islam, and I still arrive at the same conclusion: Islam is evil.

Ok can you answer the following questions
Do you call all Muslims wrong - doers for following Islam?
Did you read the whole Quran by yourself with a person to guide you through as you will have in bible study?
Do you condemn Islam for being evil because Allah says fight for me and defend the faith no matter what?
In what way did you observe Muhammed's lifestyle?

TayoD:
So why arent Christians bombing all over the world? Are you saying Christinas are not persecuted or never suffer injustice? It must be that the teachings of the Bible to us as Christians clearly depicts something different than you seem to have observed. Jesus, who is our example, and by extension the Apostles who were His direct followers showed us by example that peace is our only option. What did Muhammad showed by example? He was only a man of peace when the politics and economic situation favors him and his Allah. He fights and kills when he feels threatened.

If Christians were following Jesus' example why did the Crusades take place?
Why did Christians along with the Jews endorse the Slave trade?
Where was the peace option then?

TayoD:
I could explain the violence we see in the Olt Testament in context to you, but this aint a religion thread and it will be out of place. And by the way, the fighting in the Old Testament wasn't for a religion, it was for a Soveriegn State: Isreal. Isreal just happened to be a Theocratic State.

There is no need to explain. Violence is violence.

TayoD:
And by the way, the fighting in the Old Testament wasn't for a religion, it was for a Soveriegn State: Isreal. Isreal just happened to be a Theocratic State.

So the Israelites were not told by their God to kill every living thing they came across in the land of Canaan? They decided amongst themselves they needed a place to live and went on a killing spree?

TayoD:
Are we talking about the U.S. here? The issue we are discussing now is all about why the suicide bombers believe in the violence that they are so quick to carry out. Or are you trying to justify their violence because of the violence of others?

For someone to go out there and blow themselves to bits takes a lot of courage and it shows that person must be so desperate for a very good reason. _{Maybe they have seen the effects of the uranium bombs dropped on their countries.}. I don't really understand how you can overlook US involvement in the whole matter. You want to understand the reasons suicide bombers behave this way and i say look not to their religion but to the one that pulls the strings.

texazzpete:
Isn't it a teensy-weensy bit devious on your part to state something like this without adding this bit on page 3 of the abc news link:

If i had copied and pasted the document without including the bit you are referring to on page 3 then you could say i was being devious. Instead you were given the opportunity to view the source so no it's not a teensy weensy bit devious at all.

Yes ofcourse Kennedy rejected it and what happened to him? Point i'm making is, for the US Govt to devise a plan like that forty odd years ago, what other plans are they capable of? Especially when recent events bear a similarity to this plan.

I am glad you picked up on the word probability. Can you explain why it is extremely unlikely when you agree such a probability exists.

texazzpete:
I'm no american apologists, but it's funny that people reject all links between Islam and terrorism and then label America (all 299 Million citizens) as being the root of all the world's evil.
on so many blogs i've visited, i've seen many people gleefully predicting the 'eventual decline of american hegemony'. Ok! Bring on the Chinese!

I'm not a huge fan of Islam yet i still believe this war is not about 'Islam aka Terrorism'. As far as i am concerned a terrorist can come in any gender, race, size or creed. Terrorism is in the eye of the beholder.

chidichris:
Brothers,
this forum could be a very educative one if only we can keep sentiments apart. David mentioned apoint about terrorism not link to islam and i do agree with that.

David! Surely you must be mistaken.

@ TayoD

Well what do you expect when posts depicting Muslims as evil wrongdoers are all over the place. Instead of arriving at your own conclusions based on hearsay, read the Quran.

The Bible and the Quran both have one common element and that is to fight for God. As Nilla mentioned before, look at the Old testament, _{eye for an eye etc}. The very same God you worship, ordered the killings of women and children for the simple fact they had worshipped another. The people who carried out the killings believed they were fighting for their religion.

You cannot condemn one particular group's violent actions and at the same time condone the violent actions of another.





The 'Operation Northwoods' document has highlighted the probability of the US govt being capable of killing their own people to achieve their own goals.

This has been covered by ABC news - http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=

The entire document can be found here - http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

davidylan:
Arguing with you is like try to convince a 6 yr old why the world is not flat!

Please tell me why you feel this ever persistant urge to argue because i sure ain't arguing.

davidylan:
How many times will you raise this IRA issue?

As many times as i bloody well like!

davidylan:
The issue is not about violence perse, the world would not give two figs if Arabs/muslims kept the suicide bombings, aircraft hijackings, jihad and religious intolerance to themselves!

Oh! So now you are saying it is ok for muslim innocents to be killed as long no one from the Christian world gets killed. You sound just like the very same extremists you are so against.

davidylan:
No one cared whether the IRA destroyed Dublin so long as they did not amass rockets to kill innocent British citizens!

I am going to give you a chance to redeem yourself. Here, i'll even give you a few clues. Lord Mountbatten, Bishopsgate, Warrington, Hyde Park.

davidylan:
The IRA did not send suicide bombers to Java, Madrid, New York, Nairobi, Saudi Arabia, Argentina!

They didn't need to, the people they were targeting were right next door to them.

davidylan:
The IRA did not hide in caves threatening to "liberate" Nigeria for catholics!

What's with the caves? At first i thought you were against them for plotting to carry out violent acts but i think its the fact they hid in caves. That's what eating you up. Its the fact they had the nerve to hide in caves. How dare they!

davidylan:
The IRA did not move around threatening to drive the Scottish into the sea neither did they go about shooting Germans and Australians screaming "Mary is great"!

With the IRA their agenda was to deal with the British. The Muslim extremists agenda is to deal with the countries that have interfered with them. So what if they like to scream? Flipping heck havent you ever watched war movies?

davidylan:
Have the catholics in your vicinity ever threatened you or your neighbours? Are catholics hording weapons with which to kill innocent citizens?

I guess you referring to Muslims. Well i have a couple of families living next door and they haven't threatened me or any of my neighbours as far as i am aware of, and they are not hording weapons of any kind. In fact a Muslim minicab driver just dropped me off and we had a very nice chat about Nigeria.

davidylan:
Yes the IRA was a terror organization,

Not in the eyes of many US citizens, in fact they got funding from US to buy weapons. They were seen as freedom fighters whilst the British saw them as Terrorists.

davidylan:
Christians do not require other "extremist" christians to remind u their lives are always in danger as long as Islamic millitants have their eyes set on imposing an islamic agenda on the rest of the world.

Same goes for the Muslims. As long as the West have their eyes set on pilfering their resources, they need no reminder too.

@Brownsuga

Have you watched '911 loose change'?

Dont really know why all this boils down to religion. When IRA went about bombing UK, there was no hatred directed at Catholics.

Those who are Christians should remember they are Christians and abide to what the man they knew as Jesus said 'love thy neighbour' also stop the hatred of Muslims just because of what extremist Christians say.
When religion is no longer the focus then the agenda for this war will become clear.

@ Nilla

Thanks.

Islam is not a bad religion, it is the people in power that have corrupted the essence of the religion. Same could be said for Christianity. There was a time people were not allowed to translate the bible without the authority of the church. If they were caught, they were put to death. That is how priests, modern day Pharisees, came into play. They were instructed to preach only certain things to get people under the Church's thumb. Fire and Brimstone etc.

Same for Islam, people were illiterate and depended on Imams to read from the Quran, these Imams in turn interpreted the Quran how they saw fit and with this came Hadiths which are composed of man made laws rather than Gods law

As for actions, there are countless of innocent peaceful 'terrorists' in Camp Xray being tortured in the name of terrorism and forced into sexual positions with each other. Such actions stir up anger amongst the extremists and Middle Eastern leaders with ulterior motives will use these extremists to accomplish their goals.

@ Nilla

Lol wasnt referring to you. Aimed specifically at 'Camp 2'

Religion only became a major factor since the War on Terrorism. I feel this was done deliberately to avert the public's attention from other issues.

You forget there was a time Christians went about in the name of God killing Jews and 'Pagans'.

Afam:
@Davidylan,

I believe it is on record that the christains once embarked on such a crusade in the time past

As it is coming from Afam maybe some people might accept it as fact.



I heard on the news a few years back that the Israelis and Palestinians shared the same gene pool. This was quickly retracted as it would have caused a lot of anger.

This could have meant

The current Palestinians were descendants of the Canaanites
The current Palestinians were Jews
The current Israelis were descendants of Canaanites and Israelites

davidylan:
It's best to shut up since you lack so much in the intellectual department. The issue here is NOT that other religious groups can also be accused of intolerance at some point but WHO ARE THOSE WHO THREATEN THE PEACE OF EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL ON THE PLANET? Who are those who kill Nigerians when Danish cartoonists portray Muhammad?
You say the Sikhs killed Indira Ghandi, did they hijack planes carrying innocent Germans? Have they ever been accused of shooting innocent Australians? Have you ever heard of one of them blowing himself up in Madrid?

Davidylan this is not about point scoring so feel rest assured i am not trying to expose you. If you dont understand, ask.

davidylan:
Black churches burnt by white folks? Has the word "racism" been wiped out of your own dictionary or you just choose to peddle misinformation? Since when did those white "christians" hijack planes carryiing blacks? Did those white "christians" destroy the churches in Zamfara by blowing themselves up?

I think in your enthusiasm to insult me you overlooked the whole point i was making.

davidylan:
Another falsehood you peddle is hanging the tag "christian" on any group you like? Did those white "christians" ever tell you they were racists to blacks in the name of God?
Who are these "christian" groups and when did they tell blacks to get out of white populated countries? Did this happen in the US where u only visited for 4 days and yet know much more than Dick Cheney himself?
What of Arabs who continously discriminate against black people too? Are they also "christian" groups too?

Do you really want to know about the Christian groups or you still mad at me for stating your media is regulated by your government?

davidylan:
Concerning the IRA and M16, i choose not to banter with a dumb individual like you!
What is M16? Are you refering to an assault rifle or a cluster of stars? For your information, the UK security service is called M15! It might be in your own interest to research well before you let loose a stream of falsehoods again!

By the way it's MI6 i am referring to not M16. As for the UK secret service, if [b]you [/b]research well enough, you will find it's MI5 not M15 as you stated.

You forget there was a time Christians went about in the name of God killing Jews and 'Pagans'. Sikhs too had their time of extreme violence during which Indira Ghandi ended up getting killed.

During the last century, a lot of black churches were getting bombed by white folk who saw themselves as Christians. Did that mean that all Christians attacked black churches?

Right now you have a few Christian groups calling on 'Niggers' n Jews to get out of white populated countries. Does it mean all Christian groups are racist?

Point is there are extremists in all sectors and you can't point the finger at one group and tar everyone with the same brush.

davidylan:
Did the IRA extend their war to Africa, NY, Madrid, Java, Bombay?

It's either you didnt get the point about the IRA and MI6 or you chose to completely disregard that point due to lack of knowledge.

With religion you have the peaceful side and the explosive side. Hindus are peaceful while the Sikhs tend to be more explosive. Same goes for Muslims, you forget there are so many sects same goes for Christianity. At the moment everyone is highlighting Islam as the religion that spawns terrorists. I believe that is wrongful judgement based on a few untruths.

MI6 were responsible for some of the bombings that were blamed on the IRA so if they could do that, what stops the US secret service from carrying out a few attacks in the name of terrorism.

I wish i knew. It is sad but it has been like this from time man introduced religion to this world. I hope you not using this as a basis to slag off Islam.

@ kaecy

Those were questions i was asking not statements. If you cannot answer them dont reply.
You have already started with your insults long before. So bring it come if you think you're hard enough!

@Nilla

Thanks for the explanantion. Some people only want to see what they want to see just to make arguments

nilla:
I see a lot of wikipedia links on post #1278. And i'm sure some people on Kaecy's named camp group 2, said it was not reliable.

lol lol lol. So true!! When Push come to Shove - Wikipedia leads the way out

TayoD:
Brown-eyes,

What makes Bush a Christian leader I ask? Leader of what denomination? Is his executive council and advisers made up of religious leaders? You have no basis for this statement and it will do you well to desist from such unfounded statement.

Bush is the president of United States that makes him a leader. He has also stated he himself is a Christian. _{That is how he got his Christian votes}. hence therefore he is a Christian Leader. I dont know why you trying to pick my statement apart. Did i say he was the leader of a church! What you should be answering is why is he making such statements such as "God told me go to war on terrorists" whilst picking on islamic leaders for saying the same thing.

I will like to know who is really entitled to those lands. The Jews say it is them based on what? the bible? Who was on the land before the Jews came to settle?

@ Nilla

You are so right. The war is over for now but people have been so heated up over this debate i doubt they realise the war is over.

Maybe now we should start looking at what started this war and what purpose it served.

kaecy5:
brown-eyes
US is sinking according to u , then u better pack your bags and run back home your too precious, nigeira can't afford to loose an intellectual like u

Do i detect a hint of sarcasm in those words?

I dont think Afam and I are all about Lebanon, we just feel there are two sides to every story like most people do. Due to the strong support for Israel and US, i find the other side is portrayed as the evil perpetrator especially as they are Muslims which i think is very shortsighted. Religion plays a small part in this war yet it has been used to divert attention from the main issues.

If one wants to base their arguments on what Islamic leaders say about exterminating Israel and Christians etc then look at what Christian leaders such as Bush says. he claims his God said he should go to war to attack 'terrorists" Is that not the same thing? "terrorists meaning muslims in the eyes of the West.

Instead of reading up on the information given by others to expand their knowledge, people get defensive and start attacking.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/expelled.htm

For those who are not familiar with the UN resolutions against Israel

davidylan:
I read this and came to the conclusion you are a misguided individual! You based your comments on nations you only lived in for 4 days and claim to know so much about?
I read this and now i'm wondering if you are thinking before posting at all! US was on the brink of a recesion before 9/11? Do you even have brains? A country you have only lived in for 4 days and yet you know so much about?

I'm reading this and i'm wondering; "why am i even bothering to reply this ignorant illiterate? Christians are not being suppressed in Saudi Arabia? Now i agree there's no point trying to argue with you, infact this is more like trying to make you use the few brain cells you have left.

No offence but i'd rather trade insults with Afam than reply your infantile posts!

Maybe if you pulled your head out of your Arse, you will find

[quote author=Brown-Eyes link=topic=17880.msg595081#msg595081 date=1157588811]@Kaecy5
I don't know about Christians being suppressed in Saudia Arabia, never heard of it. I do know that Saudi Arabians expect high moral standards and if you have heard the reports on British indigenous people abroad, i am sure you would agree too.[/quote]I never said Christians were not being supressed! Big Difference. If i dont know about something i dont make qualms about it as you surely do.

I know, a big story like that, the Bush administration copying a thesis off the internet, should have broken out before the story broke out in Britain. Four days is a teeny bit too long in my eyes

Im not going to retaliate to your heated outburst in defence of your nation as you will always be in the dark as far as US is concerned. US is going down so you better wake up and smell the cwooffeee!


_{Oh and I apologise for not resorting to the thesaurus to make my posts eloquent enough for you.}

What a very "free" nation where freedom of worship, freedom of the press and expression is fully guaranteed! Compared to the American press that is "regulated by govt", this must be the freest press in the world!

This must surely be another ofshoot of US and Isreali policy!


Why are you making such comparisms? Stick to the American press and the British press as i based my comments on those two. Certain stories in the US are repressed and i stand by that.

You should know by now that this is war where people employ all kinds of tactics. US and UK are always embroiled in secret missions and should expect repercussions.

You do know that Iraq was going to dump the USD before Bush decided he smelt WMD and now other countries are following suit, US has to try and save herself before she goes down completely after all she was on the brink of a recession before 9/11.

@ Nilla

Where did you disappear to?

@Kaecy5

Listen to the radio if you don't have discovery times. I can assure you will be able to get more accurate reports.
The UK and US are not Christian countries and the Muslims were allowed to 'roam' free in these countries because they contributed to the economy. Muslims only became Muslims aka Terrorists after the 9/11 plan.

I dont know about Christians being suppressed in Saudia Arabia, never heard of it. I do know that Saudi Arabians expect high moral standards and if you have heard the reports on British indigenous people abroad, i am sure you would agree too.

No one has ever denied that Iran and Syria back Hizbollah!
I dont see why Israel can have nuclear weapons and be supplied with weapons, by US, to unleash on any country it wants and yet be hailed as the victim when it is clearly a war mongering state existing only to create unrest in the Middle East

Mariory:
That's been evident from quite a few pages back. That's why I don't bother myself responding to her anymore. It's like having a full time teaching job trying to educate her.

Educate me or intimidate me into joining the US fanclub? You are so lucky i am not in the mood to cuss you out!

Orikinla:
I know thousands of Nigerians in the UK who are living like third class citizens and are poorer now than when they were in Nigeria.

That is so sad but true. Lots of Nigerians come over, lured by the images the West portrays to 'Third World' countries, thinking the streets are paved with gold only to work themselves to death, paying to run the countries via taxes upon taxes. I find i am attending more wake keepings as more Nigerians are dying of heart attacks and strokes now even cancer is making an appearance. All stress related!

Nigerians come over highly qualified and end up as road cleaners, office cleaners, parking attendants ie the jobs the indigenous people can't be bothered/lazy to do. Whilst their peeps at home think they are enjoying life, they are working 2-3 jobs a day barely enough to cover their rent, food and taxes and at the same time trying to send money home.

To add to the insult, people that can't string 2 sentences together are given the prestigious jobs that require the skills that most Nigerians have and its all due to racism. Yet you will find Nigerians bending backwards to accommodate the white man in their own countries, at times stamping all over their own people just to be in their good books. Flippn Uncle Toms!

Nigerians should aim for Canada as there are more opportunities for them to work. Also Nigerians should remember their country and return as often as possible to help with the economy. One of the tricks the West uses to keep Nigeria underdeveloped is to keep you from going back. Nothing wrong in coming to the West but always remember where you come from.

If Nigeria provided the same opportunities Britain provides for its people, it will be a far safer place than Britain. One of the main reasons Nigeria is in its current state is it serves the West for it to be in a constant state of chaos.

Over here in Britain you get the same things

Ritual killings - see freemasonary, satanism etc
Rape - Minicab drivers, date rape etc
Raping & murdering of young children - paedophilia is rife in Britain goes all the way to the top (ties in with ritual killings)
Corruption - Government scandals
MI6 killings - see David Kelly. lady Diana and numerous cases that have not grabbed the attention of the media
'Black on Black' killings - Paranoia, trainers got taken, revenge killings, street gangs
Drug related killings - between yardies, east europeans, triads
Gang warfare - Essex boys
Driveby shootings - young black men heavily influenced by drugs, MTV rap videos and American Ghetto life
and to top it off you have terrorists aka Police