₦airaland Forum

Endtimer:
- Lastly, religion does provide the only consistent basis for society. That is to say, religious societies operate based on what coheres with reality whereas atheist societies depend on consensus.

Religion provides a justification for imperalism. Converting indigenous peoples around the planet has resulted in millions of destroyed lives and deaths..
The Bible and religion justifies enslavement of other humans. Southern plantation owners even quoted the Bible as a source for continual enslavement, ownership and the beatings of other human beings. Go read Exodus.

The Bible is, without any doubt, the most violent book ever written by human beings. EVER! It is a book rife with immoral treatment of other tribes and cultures. A planet full of people are drowned because it's god can't seem to forgive anyone who has wronged him. I have had many people hurt my feelings and wrong me and I've forgiven them without requiring a bloody sacrifice or the smell of burning flesh, or cutting off their penis as retribution. (Again, go read the bible.) This makes me lightyears more moral than the biblical god.
Religion consensus right now, right here in the US, is justifying treating transgender women I know as second class citizens. They cannot even use a bathroom in several states in the very country they lives in. They would not be hired in several states. They and many others who don't fit religious rules and regulations are shunned, ostracized and condemned. Many have committed suicide. Many gay and transgender people have been murdered and people justify these horrific acts because they don't align correctly with their religious beliefs. All this because religion is "providing the only consistent basis for society". Yeah, sure.

Well, you can take your religion and Bleep right off, honey pie.

Smug arrogance combined with utter cluelessness.
Priceless

Big bang and first cause, atheism and (objective) morals, those are only two examples of what i mean. If Endtimer wanted, a quick google search and just an hour of reading would tell him why he is so utterly wrong.
But he is not here to have a bidirectional conversation, Endtimer is not here to learn.

Endtimer:
This answer is particularly easy to debunk. On first reading it I assumed you made a few points. Now I believe otherwise.

I’ll address it backwards:
- Yes, increased unbelief is correlated with decreased rates of personal fulfillment. We are all aware that the west is experiencing reduced religious involvement. Cursory internet searches will furnish you with associated data on decreased personal happiness. Your question is therefore pointless. Whether it is directly caused by or just happens to coincide with is beside the point.

- Your point about finding your own purpose is subjective and ultimately inconsequential. The purpose you pick for yourself only has no actual value. You might as well decide to become a superhero tomorrow. The value is subjective and not ultimate. On theism, it is believed that ultimate value can only be given if a thing has a purpose for which it is created. On atheism life is the result of mindless chance irrespective of the illusion of purpose with which you preoccupy yourself. Such a life has no ultimate value; only one that you make up as you go.

Further, this means that the atheist has no qualms against suicide. Life is random and valueless. In fact, all forms of crime lose their moral reprehensibility. To prevent this would require collective delusion. The atheist society would require that it’s members all believe something that isn’t true for the sake of living together. Everyone would have to believe certain things are good and others bad just so that they can coexist.

- Lastly, religion does provide the only consistent basis for society. That is to say, religious societies operate based on what coheres with reality whereas atheist societies depend on consensus. They decide what is reality and act as though this delusion is correct. This is exceedingly clear when it comes to morality and legislation which are inextricable.

What the hell?!!! How do you know this? I've taken three decades of ballet. It gives me enormous purpose in life. Who the hell are you to tell me ballet has no actual "value" or purpose. How are you measuring "value"? Do you only a assign "value" to a god belief?
Well, I have news for you, people find enormous purpose and value in their lives through thousands of paths other than a god belief.
I and millions of other atheists wake every morning with incredible purpose in their lives because they sink their thoughts and interests into science, music, medicine, history, archaeology, finance and hundreds... nay....many thousands of other topics and indeavors they emerse themselves in. Who the hell are you to say these uncountable facets of interests are below and lesser than belief in a deity.

Frankly, your attitude is the direct manifestation of religious god-centric indoctrination and a worldview that teaches there is no other purpose in life, no other way to live a life other than worshiping a thing, who let's be honest here, has never been proven to exist. It's like telling someone the only way to live life is belief in Leprechauns and anything else is beneath contempt.

You are a piece of work. Wow.

Endtimer:
You ask an impossible question and plead that we ignore its impossibility for the sake of argument. I’m curious as to how science could disprove God. Contrary to common atheist folklore, science has spent the last century bringing us closer to belief in the supernatural. It’s a shame that there aren’t enough Christians aware of this to point it out often enough until it sticks. It’s a shame there aren’t enough Christians who know that science is on their side.

As to your point concerning the difference between life with and without God:

- Atheism is only tenable in a predominantly religious society. If we all began to live without belief in God as a result of some impossible scientific discovery, it would ultimately destroy society or lead back to religion. The reason for this is because atheists take for granted the religious pillars all civilized societies are built on; the concept of morality and legislation for instance go hand in hand. Rather than reorder society after the eradication of religion, atheists would need to continue pretending as though religion still had moral force in society; until someone asks: “why can’t I just do whatever I want”. In the end we’ll arrive at a religious society because atheistic society is unsustainable and humans are incurably religious.

- On a personal, rather than sociological, level religion provides purpose for living. Atheism doesn’t. On atheism, suicide is not morally abhorrent. Western nations are beginning to witness the effects of unbelief as their citizens increasingly end their own lives. Let me ask you a question: would it make any difference if you were going to kill yourself today or tomorrow? On atheism, it certainly wouldn’t. On atheism, the fact that we are going to die one day is enough motivation for us to end our lives at once. Anything is enough motivation for us to end our lives.

- Contrary to what many atheists believe, increasing secularism negatively correlates with happiness in society. While happiness isn’t the point of life, it is worth noting that the decline of religion has been accompanied by increased depression in the west.

Note that none of the above is meant to validate the authenticity of religion. Instead it is to conceptualize the faithless society posited in the op.

This little gem of yours is so full of bullshit, i dont even know where to start.
So i wont.

Lawag3:
How do you know that Isaac Newton discovered the law of gravity how do you know that mungo park discovered the Niger river they was no video proof right you weren't there either. How do we know of Alexander the great he didn't write books about himself did he? Historians told you , you weren't there you don't know shit.
People wrote books !!! You believe stories of Alexander that lived 300 - 250 before Jesus . I'm not saying that stories of Alexander isn't true but why do you believe them?

Stop bullshitting
How do you know what your god wants?

Lawag3:
I'm not a bible student but I know that there's a verse in the bible which talks about people who did not see the Lord but believe by faith and it talks about reward for those people.

yes but none of then ever said this three words in one sentence I am the way the truth and the light some religions have said one or two of this words but never the three many even said that they are not the way. Look it up and tell me what you find.

How do you know what your good claims to be?
You don't, correct? Some other people told you. Some people wrote books.
"Christianity" tells you.
But actually you don't KNOW shit. You don't know what your god says or wants. You don't even know he exist
What your do is to BELIEVE what others tell you, without much scrutiny.
You are gullible

budaatum:
Sow me where Christianity teaches "that if you don't accept Jesus and believe he's the son of a god you're going to burn in everlasting hell" please. I must have missed that.

Have you ever read your old book? The entire reason for a Jesus figure pivots around sin.
If you don't accept that Jedus died for you sins you're in for big trouble in the afterlife.
However, you may be a cafeteria Christian. You pick and choose all the nicey-nice stuff out of the New Testament and ignore all the crappy stuff.

budaatum:
First, the ops questions are silly. Christianity, for instance, teaches to help one's neighbour instead of calling on gods to help them. It is the lesson of the Good Samaritan.

Actually, Christianity teaches that if you don't accept Jesus and believe he's the son of a god you're going to burn in everlasting hell.
It's a religion based on physical threats and bodily harm if you don't comply with the rules.
Basically it's extortion.