₦airaland Forum

Sketchandcraft:
At least no Boko Haram bombings in Lagos....


And also the examples sited are from LAGOS.. Is Lagos State the only southwest strate or you mean southwest and Nigeria contain only LAGOS and others

The same way most of the crisis in the north are in either Kano, Kaduna, Or Bornu. I was only trying to keep the thread short if am to include event from other SW states NLders will not read through to the end. You seem to forget Hausa Yoruba conflict in Oyo over sale of beans, and another over sale of meat, you also forget the flogging of A Igbo chief Ekiti state, you also forget Opc vs ijaw crisis in Ogun state, you forget the Hausa vs Yoruba in Ife, Ijaw vs Yorubas in Ondo, the list is just endless.

As for Boko haram, The northerners could also argue that no ritual killing in the north.

The tale about South west being the most hospitable and investment friendly region in the country is false and have always been a myth better still a SW pipe dream, the real truth is South west is the most hostile and volatile region in the country with the north east and north west taking the second and third position respectively.

It should however be noted that the SW have continually escaped the tag of the reality and truth of being the most hostile region because the north have always been collectively grouped together as far as hostile regions are concerned in the federation, but grouping it individually by regions in the federation it will be clear to see that the SW have recorded more ethnic, religious, tribal and political confrontations than any other region in the federation since 1999.

It should also be noted that the SW tend to show their hostile nature more when one of their own is in power as we can infer from the inception of democracy in 1999. President Olusegun Obasanjo administration from the year 1999-2007 saw more ethnic, tribal, and political crisis in the SW and Nigeria than any other time in Nigeria's history apart from event that led to the civil war and the civil war in it self, which the celebrated genocide was spare headed by a SWner.

Nigerians are quick to forget events so here is a recount of some of the famous crisis from 1999-2007 Alaba traders vs Opc, Oduade traders vs Opc, Ladipo traders vs Opc, Ijaw vs Opc, Police vs Opc, Mushin fracas, Ojo crisis, Okoko crisis, Mile 2 crisis, Mile 12 crisis, Yoruba vs Hausa Fulani. These events were recurrent at least every three month but the SWner's were always cut to size in their own fights, that's why they didn't sing about them like they did with the Ife vs Hausa Fulani crisis. They have been more ethnic related crisis in the SW than any other region in the federation.

It should be noted that the SW have attacked every business district and markets of non SW ethnicities in the SW from the Igbo's, Hausa, Fulani, Ijaw etc through direct aggression, confrontation and violence or through direct involvement of their government, it should be noted that no other region have recorded this level of aggression on inhabitants doing legitimate business in their region, the South west sees it as a threat when other ethnicities have thriving businesses in their region.

The latest crisis Ife vs Hausa Fulani, we can see how Yorubas have been very vocal about it because the manage to score cheap victory with the genocide that was carried out in their backyard against the Northerners you see them throwing words and threatening fire and brimstone for an unfair confrontation that can be said to be in the ration of 10-1000 for the Hausas and Yorubas respectively, next time we rate the most hostile region let us be sane to see the north as 3 regions making the north and and rate them as NE, NW and NC as we do to the South.

9jakool:
Weren't you the one who said I was "spitting out rage and fury driven by emotional pain and anger." Anyways, I believe that thoughtful discussion and dialogue creates understanding and brings people together, rather than throwing personal attacks.


First of all, I didn't say that Yoruba slaves were the only slaves taken to the Americas. There were many slave revolts and protests that took place in the Americas. However, the Male revolt specifically was organized by Yoruba. You know, this whole conversation came up because you claimed that Yoruba didn't resist external forces.

Also, I wasn't the one who called the Brazilian Male revolt a "Yoruba revolt", the Brazilian did themselves. Or are you going to tell me that you know their history better than them. There are written records of it and it is solid fact. Let me break it down to you. "Male" or "imale" is a Yoruba word that is used to describe Yoruba Muslims. Hence, Islam among Yoruba people is commonly referred to as "Esin-Imale." The term stuck with the Yoruba muslims that were taken to Brazil. Yoruba muslims in Brazil were well united and could organize together to plan the revolt which took place on Ramadan.


Yes, I don't disagree with you there. In Haiti, Gbe culture became the dominant culture that around 2% of them still practice Vodoo, which is even higher than the percentage of traditional adherents of some African countries. Just like with Yoruba in Brazil, Igbo culture and language became very influential in Jamaica. Jamaican Patois has a lot of words that originated from the Igbo language.



Why in the world do you think the king of Dahomey would send a foreigner to Oyo? Here is your answer: The king of Dahomey, Ghezo came to power with the help of Fransico de Souza and they became a close ally of each other. At first, De Souza was sent to Oyo by Ghezo, to negotiate peace in order to end the kingdom's tributary status. The peace talks broke down after the Alaafin rejected his offer. De Souza would later led the Dahomey army to confront Oyo. His army was able to secure a victory which ended Dahomey's tributary status.




Yoruba didn't add the myth for validation. The myth is very ancient has been around for centuries before the modern age. It's set on the foundation for Yoruba's society. Many myths from Benin and Ile-Ife have some parallels. Oral accounts can often change, especially over a period of over 1,000 years. I'm not here to discuss the Benin oral accounts concerning Oduduwa.


Many languages in Nigeria, and West Africa at large diverged from a proto-ancestor. No one group came from the other, what you have is cultural diffusion and exchange, nothing more. I respect different entities as separate, but it seems that you would like to jump to the claim that Yoruba people are descendant of Benin and Dahomey people. Maybe I need to make this more clear, TIME IS ESSENCE. Dahomey existed from the 17th century onward, Oyo existed from the 14th century. Benin excited from the 12th century and became an empire in the 15th century. Archaeology suggests that Ife was settled from 4th century BC and became prominent in the 12th century. I am not even going to claim that Yoruba is the ancestor of Benin or Dahomey. I respect each individual entities. There is no need to jump to conclusion.


Yeah most of the times it's about jokes. It's good to joke around.
Some people feel like there is a need to be superior. There is no need for an African to condemn the accomplishments or history of another African.
I embrace every ethnic groups in Nigeria and Africa at large. Everyone is equal and have contributed to the continent's rich history and legacy.

Wow I really respect your maturity and understanding well for that reason I wouldn't want to go back and forth with you unless you insist, you put up very good arguments with strong point that cannot be overlooked however many of the point you raised can be easily dismissed, disprove and faulted but for your peaceful and embracing nature I will have to let go so that I do not further hurt people's feeling and to show that these threads were not created out of hate or resentment, but if you wish I could easily continue as you please. thanks man you are a cool level headed intelligent and knowledgeable Afonja.

AkinPhysicist:
Sad - I have to school another mumu: Read the post again, mumu. This time focus on paragraphs 4 and 5. Olodo, your education is a waste.

heya na so the thing pain you reach

Afonja create another thread for your useless comparisons that's not the purpose of this thread, see free education cone head Afonja talking about wasted education, Afonja no kill me with laugh Abeg

Afonja ntor

AkinPhysicist:
OP - where is your proof that anywhere in alaigbo was as civilized as Ibadan before the advent of the British?

do not derail this thread that is not the point of this thread you can create another thread for that I am sure the Op will oblige you there

PlayerMeji:
OP, I will like to ask what exactly you are doing to get Nnamdi Kanu out from the detention he is because I know of prominent Yoruba persons making moves in words and action, the likes of FFK and Fayose.

Yet you come online, conspisciously hiding behind the front of a laptop to spew chiit about Yorubas as if they are the problems to your existence.

The Hausa/Fulanis who want to die in power at all cost and play divide and rule are not your problems.

my brother I am not doing any thing to get NK out of cell, but prominent Igbo that matter and those in power are doing what they can just today Peter Obi made a statement likewise Rochas Okorocha so I think does concerned are doing what they can.

The Yorubas are my friends and brothers I have nothing against them in real life but my brother on Nairaland they are something else. But still one love. Cheers.

Okorocha you eff up with that statement but I will not insult you as an Igbo elder and governor, but I cannot speak for other Igbo youths that wish to insult you

Afonja ntor

DEGr8t:
A former governor of Anambra State, Mr. Peter Obi has stated that the agitation for Biafra is not violent and does not violate either the Nigerian constitution or international laws and called on the federal government to dialogue with Indigenous People of Biafra (IPOB) and release Nnamdi Kanu, the director of Radio Biafra London.

Speaking with journalists in Enugu on Thursday, Obi said there was need for the Nigerian government to change its ‘hardline posture and yield to the persistent clamour” by releasing the IPOB leader from detention.

Source: http://www.chenkeleb.com/2017/03/released-nnamdi-kanu-peter-obi-blasts.html

Peter Obi my man God bless you

Afonja ntor

If you ask me I will say omo Igbo because even Afonja always say omo Igbo is everywhere but will not stay in Igbo land.

When we know that they are over 20million adults Ipob youths in the SE

Afonja ntor.

talk2archy:
Please let's be sincere, who do you think this masquerade resemble in this country?

I would say oBj

YonkijiSappo:
lol you think i have your time.... If I wanted i could deliberately turn this thread upside down by copying a load of thrash 10 pages long from somewhere on the web and dumping it here. But because this thread actually shows the jealousness and saddened state of the Igbo man towards Yoruba cultural superiority I am actually leaving it to thrive.
Let the world see your folly.

Spamming this thread with 10 pages of trash does not answer the questions or disprove the facts, so it is inconsequential and will only go on to give credit to these facts

Distance between Afonja and sense be like

YonkijiSappo:
I heard the largest structure in the world are actually the walls of the Okija juju shrine in Anambra, and the cave entrance of the Long juju shrine in Arochukwu, Abia....

Long live the red mud republic under the one true god shukuluku Abambi ! ..

Afonja provide us links to what you heard and not Lagos, Ibadan links o

Afonja ntor

When I come with more Afonja facts now they will say it's because I have resentment towards afonjas

Afonjas una don see am now, shey the OP to get resentment towards afonjas

Afonjas playing the victim cards since time immemorial

Afonja ntor

Lalastical, Seun, mynd44 please move this to FP so that those that have been misinformed can be properly educated on the truth about the biggest man made stucture in the world.

afonjas and lies

Afonja ntor

Afonjas won't like this thread

Gigacom:
This is a rebuttal to this thread that has someone found its way to the front-page https://www.nairaland.com/3687019/eredo-ijebu-worlds-largest-man-made

The real largest man-made structure is and has always been the Great Wall of China. It stretched over 5,500 miles from the Shanghai Pass to the Bohai Sea. In comparison, it is more than twice as long as the River Niger which stretches all the way from Guinea to the the Niger Delta. It is also longer than the longest river in the world, the Nile.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Great-Wall-of-China

In contrast, it is claimed that the so-called Eredo Ijebu is only 160 kilometers long (or a mere 99 miles, which is a negligible fraction in comparison to the Great Wall of China).

Please, we should stop twisting facts to massage our little egos and make us feel bigger and more important than we really are. Also, let us desist from spreading and celebrating false information.

Lalasticlala, Seun

Afonja come and see o

OP you beat me to it because I was writing long story to follow

Forgetting that afonjas only prefer short false story kudo's Op

This will keep afonjas awake for the rest of the week till their agbo is ready

Afonja ntor

YonkijiSappo:
E dey pain you o,.... Gagaun...

Mr man don't derail this thread stay on topic and learn, I am awaiting more reasonable argument from 9jacool the only sensible Yoruba man on it thread so far.

Afonja ntor

YonkijiSappo:
All I can see in this thread are the rantings and ramblings of a pained Igbo... Hhahaha

Next time , pray to God to bring you into the world through an ethnic group with a glorious historical statute.

Thank God you said what you see, Op is more concerned with what non Yorubas see

slurryeye:
Dude stop wasting valuable time in displaying your hate against Yoruba. There has been Yoruba thousands of years before you were born, Yoruba sons and daughters are doing spectacularly well everywhere in the world today, Yoruba is setting pace for other tribes to follow in Nigeria, and there will be Yoruba thousands of years after you have gone.

Channel your energy towards something that will benefit you and people around you.

To answer your question, there are architectural structures of ancient Yoruba empires and cities such as Ile Ife, Ijebu and Oyo Ile

Wow, this thread have achieved the aim for which it was created.

1. To prove that Ibadan is not as old as being portrayed by Yoruba revisionist.
2. To prove that Yorubas lived in farms, bushes, trees, under rocks and mud houses before the coming of the white man.
3. To prove that Yorubas never set the pace of development in Nigeria, even after having early contacts with the whites.
4. To prove that Yorubas have long been overtaken in terms of development, Education, civilization, industrialization etc.
All this aims have been achieved on this thread with even Yorubas supporting my claims and providing the needed evidence.

Wow interesting, Mods you can now move this thread to front page please.

slurryeye:
Why should I put your initial quote that is like 10 pages long? That is very unnecessary. Just show how my links corroborates your fabrications that Old oyo empire was a proxy to Dahomey and Benin.
You see, I like pre-colonial African history, and I take pride in finding out that there were kingdoms, Empires and Cities in sub-sahara Africa before the white came to plunder it.
But one of the most difficult thing for historians about sub saharan empires is lack of written records. However, the existence of the empires can be substantiated by oral traditions, archeological evidences, attestation by someone from another empire or region and existing culture and tradition of the old empire

Now to your terrible fabrications.
When it comes to oral tradition about Old oyo empire, not only there are consistency in the narrative of Old oyo empire descendants, there are hundreds of books and first hand accounts out there written by the first set of westerners to contact the indigenous people of Oyo (I can provide copies if you want).

When it comes to archeological evidences, there are tonnes of evidences that showed that Oyo was a very influential empire in pre-colonial 15th to 19th century west africa. Another important evidence was the discovery of art works that suggest the region must have been a big settlement of people in a kingdom or empire. Don't let us forget the account of different westerners that saw Oyo army and Calvary (I believe you know what calvaries are, and how it depict civilization).
https://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/old_oyo.htm
https://www.jstor.org/stable/25130772?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Find attached below some of the ruins and archeological findings of old Oyo empire

Attestation by someone from another empire: Ahmed baba of Songhai empire(I'm sure you don't even know who that is) in his book in the 16th century wrote about Old oyo empire. If Old oyo wasn't an empire, I doubt how Ahmed baba living thousands of miles away could know of the place.

Culture and tradition: up till date, the culture and tradition of Old oyo is being practised by the descendants of the empire. So much so that, the culture was carried across the atlantic and practised in over 7 countries in the new world including Cuba, Brazil, Jamaica, Colombia, USA etc. This single fact defected your lie and insultive fabrication because if Oyo was a proxy to either Dahomey or Benin, the tradition and culture of both places will be infused in the lifes of descendants of Oyo and not the other way round.

Like I said earlier, your post is made up of lies and fabrication filled with hatred you have for Yoruba. It is based on absolute no evidence or source. If I have the time and know your tribe, I can write something 100 times more terrible things.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h28af3-4.htm

http://www.afropedea.org/oyo-empire

http://www.africabib.org/rec.php?RID=190927143

https://africa.si.edu/exhibits/ipi/yoruba.htm

If my post was too lengthy why didn't you delete it content therein, cut it short or highlight the part you wish to disprove instead you choose to alter my quote to mean something else, unless you change that I wouldn't take you seriously and I don't expect anyone too as well.

That said, a good test for history is that it should be able to stand alone in it narratives or account which Yoruba history clearly fails also oral history have never been as good source for history as its narrative is watered down from generations to generations or could be altered to magnify or suit the narrators intentions.

If Oyo was as great a kingdom and not a proxy administrative province how is it that they could not keep records, when Dahomey and Benin kingdoms and other great kingdoms, kept records of their history as far back as the 14th century and Oyo could not keep its own coming 200 year after instead the choose to parade a revised account of the Benin and Dahomey empire as their own history, and chose to call the to kingdoms descendants of Oduduwa and by extension Yorubas.

How do you explain
Oduduwa falling from the sky
How do you explain Oduduwa actually being a Benin prince
How do you explain the Benin kingdom being an older kingdom with records of all it kingship till date and Oyo empire having no records
How do you explain the fact that Benin kingdom have landmark structures and artifacts that depict a kingdom even Ijebu that ran a small kingdom had land mark structures, so why does a kingdom as mighty as Oyo have non.
How do you explain the fact that no ancient historical palace, royal ornaments, king graves or artwork that depict a kingdom or royalty existed in Oyo as it was found in Benin, Dahomey and Nri.
How do you explain a recent Oyo and Yoruba kingdom claiming the title Oba a Benin word for king which Yorubas now claim to be Yoruba words, when in reality it was borrowed during the annexation by Benin.
How to you explain the fact the the words Benin, Dahomey and Oyo have to be used interchangeably in Oyo empire history when no such word is used in Benin or Dahomey history except where they give records of their exploits in yorubaland.
How do you explain the fact that no record of Oyo warriors invading Benin or Dahomey, when they are endless records of the reverse.

The questions are endless, pointers to the fact that no empire existed in Oyo are to numerous to ignore, these are simple questions that kills any idea or narrative of any Oyo empire.

I would have help you work around the answers to come to a conclusion that shows that what you called and empire was actually a administrative province for other great kingdoms.

Before I do that like I said you change my initial post which you quoted so I can't take you serious or i will not waste my time with you if you don't change it back but I am only providing this questions so reader don't take you serious as well.

Personally I think the Yorubas should have projected Ijebu as that great and mighty kingdom instead of Oyo as Ijebu would have been more marketable to the world.

If you go through the thread you will see that I am politely engaging 9jacool who is coming up with a more logical arguement without altering any of my post.

9jakool:
You think I'm offended by what you posted? No, I'm just amused. I'm even more amused after you claimed that Ijebu are not Yoruba.

Yes, it's an obvious fact that Yoruba are not the only one exported to the Americas, that's why I specifically mentioned Brazil, particularly the Bahia region. Till today, Yoruba culture is the dominant African culture in Brazil from cuisine to language to art to religion. Whether you like it or not, the Male revolt in Brazil was carried out by Yoruba people and it's the most significant slave revolt against colonial forces in Brazil's history. Male was the name given to Yoruba people in Brazil at the time and it also has an historic meaning and context in Yoruba. You do know that Male is a Yoruba word right?

In regards to Oyo relationship with Dahomey, let me introduce you to Francisco de Souza, a notorious slave trader of the time. He was sent by Dahomey king to negotiate peace with Oyo, after Oyo threatened to attack them if they didn't pay a tribute requested by the Alaafin. See, even a foreigner recognized the relationship between Oyo and Dahomey. Or are you going to claim that De Souza was Yoruba scholar right? Dahomey paid tribute to Oyo for about a century until 1824 when they regained full independence. Due to the socio-political influence of Oyo and Yoruba, the Fon of Dahomey, and many related groups adopted some aspects of Yoruba culture. They partake in the renowned gelede masquerade and ifa. They've even adopted many Yoruba deities into their Vodun religion like ogun.

You know the story of Oduduwa is referred as mythology and a legend in history books for a reason, right? Even the ancient Greek had their own mythology and creation story. You lost me when you say that Yorubas are descendant from Benin and Dahomey. Why can't you respect individual sovereignty of each ethnic group. Edo, Fon and Yoruba are from three seperate language branches. You should know by now that Ife settlement and art predates Benin and Dahomey by centuries, it's fact. Archaeology suggests that Ife was settled as far back as 4th century BCE. The oldest human remain in all of West Africa dating back as far back as 13,000 years is found in Yorubaland at a site close to Ife. Every ethnic group has their own uniqueness that should be respected.

It's obvious that you share a deep resentment for Yoruba people which is exposed in your bigotry. It is quite amusing to me that you spend so much effort trying to dismiss history to fit your narrative.

Strike 2
Keep trying...

Why would I expect you to be angered by my post, in fact I am happy with your arguments because amongst all your brothers whom have commented so far on this thread only you have done the honorable thing by trying to disprove these facts, so my brother no I do not intend to anger you with my post, but I must confess I am rather impressed by your arguements very interesting point of view and angle you are coming from but there are still too many loops that cannot be ignored.

Why are you still insisting on calling the Brazilian slave revolt a Yoruba one, the white during the slavery era never only exclusively shipped one set of people to any country as they usually sort for slaves from many coastline territories and bought slaves from there, while it could be correct to say they were significant Yoruba slaves in Brazil that does not rule out the fact that other ethnicities were there as well and we can't even say the Yoruba population was more than the other ethnicities independently or put together.

However we all know that the Yorubas are know to maintain and uphold their culture and that is the effect that you see in Brazil today where many of the Yoruba slaves maintained their culture till this very day. We all know the Igbo's were are a dominant ethnic group in Haiti but we see less Igbo influence in Haiti like we see in Jamaica where the Igbo's also had a significant population, this goes to show that the Igbo in Haiti did not hold unto their culture like those in Jamaica, a number of factors could have influenced it but I chose to stay on topic. A lot of Jamaica and Padua words are of Igbo origin.

You got it mixed up Francisco de Sousa did not go to negotiate peace with Oyo, he actually led a Dahomey army against Oyo which oversaw Oyo fall and under the authority of Dahomey. This is why I have warned against reading from only University of Ibadan Publications or OAU publishers. So please gets your facts right.

Yes the story of Oduduwa is supposed be a myth but in reality it is not because Oduduwa actually existed as a Benin prince and that is no coincidence, it just goes to show that the history of Yorubas did not add up and the Yorubas added the myth of Oduduwa falling from the sky instead of revealing that he was a Benin prince on a expansionist journey as that will not sell the Yorubas as the progenitors or ancestors of the Benins and others whom say they are descendants of Oduduwa.

About the Yorubas being descendants of Benin or Dahomey people, there is no wrong in that statement except I inferred that all Yorubas were descendants of Benin and Dahomey people. Now let me explain to you no large group in the world is descended from one ancestry not even the Jews or the Dutch, and that clearly applies to Yoruba Igbo or Hausa, during the reign of Oduduwa in Ife will you say that Oduduwa was not settled in Ife? Didn't his wives bear children didn't his children move to have their own children in yorubaland are those children of Oduduwa not Yorubas today? The same applies to Dahomey people in Oyo so I don't see why you pick offense in that.

Please about the resentment, please dismiss that as fallacy, I have nothing against any ethnic group in Nigeria, all my post throwing jibes on nairaland is for the nairaland e-warriors and just for fun I am sure that 60% of people that read those my bashing laugh out loud, however these Afonja facts that I am posting are simply the truth and does not in any way mean hate or resentment as a student of history this are simply fact that suggest that they was no Oyo empire and not my own personal wishful thinking as you wish to call it

However maybe I should not have posted them for all to see but seeing what Yorubas do and say not just to Igbo's but to every other ethnicities I am left with no choice. Cheers.