₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
So,
1. What are the names of the daughters of Hubal?
2. Explain how both the pre-Islamic Allah and Hubal have children of the same name.
3. Have you read the biographies of your prophet by any of Ibn Al-Kalbi, Ibn Hisham or Al-Tabari in relation to Abd al-Muttalib who took Abdullah to the Kaaba for sacrifice and latter replaced by ten Camels?
Of course, you will pretend that the history does not exist so that you can continue in your self deception.

You answered NOTHING sir!



To you the understanding and opinion of your scholars supercede that of Allah and your prophet!
Unfortunately, manufacturing conjectures stopped working from the internet age as the truth cannot be hidden again

CreativeOrbit:
Your comment is a textbook example of confusion layered on arrogance, topped with a sloppy misunderstanding of theology—Islamic and Christian. Let’s untangle your mess point by point.

1. “So antiChristian, your Quran calls the Messiah Lord?” – No, you’re cherry-picking and still getting it wrong.

First, the Qur’an does not call Jesus “Lord” (Rabb) in the way Christians use it. Islam calls him Messiah (al-Masih), a prophet, the Word of God, born of a virgin, and highly honored—but not divine.

The Qur’an makes it crystal clear:

“Indeed, the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was no more than a messenger of Allah…” (Qur'an 4:171)

Islam doesn’t reduce Jesus’ status—it restores it to what he actually taught: submission to One God. That’s not dishonor. That’s truth stripped of pagan fusion and theological inflation.

So no—Muslims don’t call Jesus “Lord” because worship is due to God alone. You can’t accuse Muslims of disrespect for refusing to commit shirk (associating partners with God)—that’s like calling a surgeon anti-medicine for refusing to drink poison.

2. “You honor him lesser than Muhammad?” – That’s not a contradiction. That’s consistent theology.

Muhammad (ﷺ) is the final prophet, the seal of the messengers, sent with the universal message for all of mankind. Jesus (‘Isa), peace be upon him, was a mighty prophet, sent to the Children of Israel.

Islam doesn't rank prophets like a fanboy list. It honors them all, but acknowledges that some were given specific roles and statuses by divine decree (Qur’an 2:253).

If you’re angry that Muhammad has a higher status in Islam, that’s not a theological critique—it’s just ego dressed up as outrage. We don’t rewrite divine hierarchy to please your feelings.

3. “Adam was forgiven but it says they will all go to hell?” – Learn to read before you debate.

Adam was forgiven by Allah, full stop. Islam doesn't teach that he was condemned to hell. You’re confusing temporary consequences on Earth with eternal damnation, and once again showing you haven’t read the Qur’an—you’ve read bad summaries of it.

As for "they will all go to hell," you’re likely mangling Qur'an 19:71, which says:

“And there is none of you but will pass over it (hellfire); this is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed.”

But the next verse (19:72) clarifies:

“Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.”

So passing over doesn't mean eternal damnation. It refers to a moment of judgment—a test that the righteous will pass, and the wicked will not. If you’re going to quote the Qur’an, quote both verses, or don’t quote at all.

4. “Even I said the Messiah Lord will follow Muhammad” – Exactly. That’s Islamic eschatology.

Yes, Jesus (peace be upon him) will return. And guess what? He won’t come with a new religion. He will return as a follower of Muhammad (ﷺ)—as part of the final revealed path, not as a separate savior figure.

This isn’t confusing—it’s coherent, consistent, and rooted in tawheed (oneness of God).

The real confusion is in trying to understand Islamic theology through a Christian lens, twisting verses, demanding contradictions, and then calling Islam “confusing” when it doesn’t mirror your broken framework.

Final word:

Your argument is riddled with poor comprehension, selective quoting, and bad logic. You’re not here for dialogue—you’re here to poke holes using cut-up verses and confused theology. But this isn’t Sunday school. If you want to attack Islam, come with facts, not this mangled mess of misinterpretation and emotional noise.

Until then, don’t confuse your misunderstanding with Islam’s clarity.

TenQ AntiChristian

gohf:
so antichristian your Quran calls the Messiah lord? But you can't call the Christ Lord but honor him lesser than Muhammad?

This is confusing, and you said Adam was forgiven from going to hell yet it says they will all go to hell?

Even creativeorbit said the Messiah lord will follow Muhammad??

gohf:
to be honest so far I haven't seen you use these essentials to properly debunk tenq guesswork and misinterpretations. You did debunk the claim of Hubal not being Allah by using the Quran.

But then are you saying that the interpretations of these essentials are more valid that the texts in the Quran.

You know Christians say, Spirit gives life but the text brings death, so to some of them the answer may already be given.

Are you saying that the essentials are more valid than what's in the text, .

gohf:
Creative I know I am cutting out from your words to tenq but it is mind-blowing what you have written here.

Putting this into the Nigerian context, a Muslim could rightly say they have the right to be unkind towards the igbos who fought them in the civil war.

I think I am beginning to understand why some igbos in the north are wary of the Muslims, such reaction isn't one you expect from those who are welcomed. I have not experienced such marginalization and I have had some "good" Muslim friends but don't you think it's wrong to call those who have or may have faced such hypocritical?

gohf:
so not only creativeorbit but another one shares the teaching to be not about "friends" but about politics.

Where do you find ourselves as Nigerians when a major religious group teaches themselves to not support non-muslims or Jew or christians in politics.

Now thejustpath, not sure quoting Quran 60:8 supports a peaceful Muslim or why you quoted it, because in the case where it can also be interpreted as giving them the right to be wicked to anyone who offends them, it supports a self justified radical group that believes they have been fought or stolen from.

gohf:
Allah means the God, so you are saying that the God was the name of the supreme creator God?

Now I want you to read something;
In pre-Islamic Arabia, the Kaaba housed a statue of Hubal, a deity revered by the Quraysh tribe. Hubal was a prominent god, with his idol placed inside the Kaaba, sometimes above the dry well, and his position near the Black Stone suggests a connection between the two, according to Answering Islam. Some scholars, like Julius Wellhausen, suggest the idea that Hubal may have originally been the Black Stone itself, or even an early form of Allah.


Is this historically a lie, because even till date Muslims venerate the black stone and kabba, to you it maybe for a different reason, but are both structures not man made and the same

gohf:
now tenq gave the interpretation to be that Muslims are taught not to be friends with Jews and Christians. Now you creativeorbit gives us a different interpretation, now my question is, are you saying that Muslims are taught not to vote for non-muslims, or to be specific are Muslims taught not to take Jews and Christians as their guardians, protectors nor support them political?

gohf:
So I came across an interesting debate here on Nairaland between tenq and creativeorbit concerning Hubal and his three daughters, at first I ignored it, but in an attempt to Google if some of the info was true I came across this.



It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.
As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God.


Now Muslims believe that Quran is perfect and infallible, and is given authority to correct the errors of the Tanakh and the Bible which they believe has been corrupted.

It brings a lot of questions and more doubts concerning Muhammad and the Quran when Muhammad claims to have been deceived by the devil

TenQ:
I am accused of cherry picking ONLY because I refuse to follow the reinterpretation of the words of your Allah and your Mohammed. QED!


1. Is Allah a good or bad communicator?
2. Is Mohammed a good or a bad communicator?
3. If both Allah and Mohammed are good communicators of doctrine, why do you think it makes sense to have hundreds of scholars who re-interprete what they both have said as if they are the worst of communicators of Islamic doctrine?

If it makes sense that Allah's words and Mohammed's words be re-interpreted. Why do you think it makes sense to even take any scholars words at their face value.


Can you see the problem you have?
Islamic is simply the religion according to the consensus of your scholars. It is not about Allah or Mohammed as your scholars are the final authority to what Muslims are expected to believe.

Unfortunately, there exist no CONSENSUS by these scholars even over minor events.

TenQ:
Everything I say is misconstrued as far as you are concerned. But do you know why?
Because I chose to stick with only TWO opinions of Islam
1. The opinion of Allah found in the Qur'an
2. The opinion of your prophet found in the hadiths

But no! These opinions don't matter to you because I must submit myself to the opinion of your Scholars who often go against one another.
At best what you are saying is that Islam is a religion created by Islamic scholars who keep on changing their arguments depending on their situation.




Unfortunately, Allah should have compared the real Messiah (a man) with the Dajjal who is false Messiah (also a man).

A simple argument of Allah should have been: Allah is NOT ever a Man and this would have settled the argument wouldn't it?


Is Allah not all wise again?


It doesn't matter what you accept or reject. What matters is what Allah says and what your prophet says about your religion.

Unfortunately,
One Hand could mean the Power of Allah just as a Finger could represent the power of Allah in creating Adam
BUT
Not TWO hands my dear because you have a lot of explanations to do in explaining why ONE hand was not sufficient (if indeed it is allegorical)


You seem not to understand the level of your problem.
1. Allah comes to you Muslims in a Different SHAPE
2. Based on this new shape of Allah you reject him and even call him satan
3. You Muslims then had a meeting to deliberate on HOW to RECOGNISE Allah from his looks
4. Then you Muslims remember that Allah has a SHIN
5. The Allah Unveils his SHIN to you by which you now RECOGNISE him as Allah

Everything up till now is about recognition of the PHYSICAL SHAPE of Allah.


Sorry to disappoint your faulty scholars standard islamic narrative


Just imagine how you deny Allah and his prophet to hold onto the opinion of scholars who came several centuries after Mohammed.

Is it difficult to trust Allah and his Messenger's words?


You speak like 90% of Muslims have done what you are suggesting I should do.

Like I said:
I am willing to go with what Allah and his perfect prophet said. But to you, that is a lack of integrity as integrity is to reinterpret their sayings to conform to the STANDARD ISLAMIC NARRATIVE (SIN) which has lots of Holes and falsehood!

TenQ:
What do we do when it was Allah himself and his prophet Mohammad comparing himself to us men?



Allah comparing himself with the Da'jaal (a man)

The difference between Allah and the Dajjal is that Allah is not blind in one eye.

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2241
'Ibn 'Umar narrated that the Prophet(s.a.w) was asked about the Dajjal, so he said:
"Lo! Indeed your Lord is not blind in one eye, and indeed he is blind in one eye; his right eye is as if it is a floating grape."


Allah has two hands

Quran 38:75
"O Iblis! What prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My two hands? Are you arrogant, or were you [already] among the haughty?"




Allah's clothes!?
Qur'an 68:42:
"The Day the shin will be uncovered and they are invited to prostrate but will not be able to."

Ofodirinwa:
Islamic Scholarship
There are 0 major works of islamic thought from Northern Nigeria. This is despite the massive population AND even greater effort put into islamic education in the north. There is visible leadership by southern Nigerian religious leaders in christianity. They were known the world over, their churches are spreading everywhere, they publish major religious works. They are known internationally in gospel music, etc. Any endevour of the christian world and christian thought, southern Nigerians are there. And they governments in southern Nigeria don't put the effort into christianity that the north puts into Islam.

If you look at all of the places the north is behind in, people will say it's because their main focus is Islam. But even in that main focus, they're nobody. Is Gumi recognized in west africa and beyond? Because in the news this week they threw him out of Saudi Arabia like a common criminal.

Western Education And Development
You don't think Islam is also a part of colonialism? Anything tied to colonialism that is blocking the North from excelling in Western education, should also block them from Islamic education. I think it's strange that african muslims tend to think Islam is their actual native culture and way of life. It is foreign and it was forced on you and is still being forced. The excuse doesn't stand.

Cattle Production
Between 2016 and 2020, 3,641 Nigerians were killed per year by cattle herdsmen. To find out that Nigeria loses 3,000+ human lives every year because of cows, but Nigeria is also failing in cow production, has a low cattle count, has unhealthy low protein cows after all this bloodshed is pathetic. Fulani are, without question, the lowest in cattle production of all herdsmen world wide. Go look at Kenyan nomad cows, Dinka nomad cows, south african nomad cows, and go look at our cows. In 2023 Nigeria IMPORTED 151,636 kilograms of beef.




With the energy the Hausa put into Islam, they are nobody among muslims, and the energy Fulani put into cows they are nobody among herdsmen or cattle rearers. They are infact failures in both regards. They not considered good muslims nor are they considered good herdsmen. In the South, people are focused on scholarship, christianity, business, and even entertainment. Southern Nigerians are excelling world wide in scholarship, Christianity, Business and Entertainment. They are competing with everyone in the world.

Righteousness2:
I wont be Surprised if it has something to do with "Free Palestine" blablabla!

Saudi does not want to hear that bull crap in their land.
The other day, they beat up an jam who was speaking on it in a mosque.

Lanruze:
Who is debating with a goat ?

You opened a psudeo name- creative mugu on social media and your speciality is to attack people unprovoked.

Lanruze:
Who is debating with a goat ?

You opened a psudeo name- creative mugu on social media and your speciality is to attack people unprovoked.

Lanruze:
You opened an account on Nairaland to specifically defend a Natasha.

Asides from being a Toozo....You are certified

TenQ:
It seems you don't know that I almost became a Muslim and recited the shahada. It was the Qur'an itself that let me out of my confusion.

Open your eyes and stop defending the undefendable. Both the Qur'an and Hadiths are lies that need further lies to defend.

I was ready to leave my faith for Islam until undeniable facts stared me in the face. I couldn't join you to manufacture lies to defend Islam nor Mohammed. Thus, my journey to asking questions both about Islam and Christianity started.

Let me ask you two question:
1. Why is it that Muslims usually deny the obvious when they read the Qur'an or the Hadiths?
2. Why is it that Muslims take the Opinions of their Scholars over that of your prophet and even Allah (depending on what suits them)?


Jesus came to be the ransom for you from the fire of hell or why do you think He came to the world?
Do you think I can be a good ransom for you (as a Christian) from the fire of hell?

WriterrNg:
⚡Iran’s Revolutionary Guard:

Our finger is on the trigger, and we are ready to respond with force beyond imagination to any hostile act.

SoftSport:
Jonathan's time was good, but Tinubu's Assembly is doing better now, actions speak louder than words, and they’re really trying to fix the economy and help the people.