₦airaland Forum

So AFDB themselves don't know how to spell hydroelectric?

Well, I think Nigeria power situation is getting better. Here in Abuja, it has been 72 hours on and 1 day off for the past 4 months plus.

OK

Ubenedictus:
Some extremist Pentecostal websites said: “Catholics are to blame for the flames at Notre-Dame. The building has a lot of demons on it. Catholics invited this upon themselves. “��‍♂️��‍♂️��‍♂️

In the past, when I was much more reactionary, I might have misinterpreted the intentions of those who have criticized the presence of gargoyles (demonic sculptures) in catholic Church building. But on a 2nd thought I think the sentiments of those who are uncomfortable with those structures are LEGITIMATE this.one.time. I don’t think they stem from anti-catholic prejudice that is prevalent in Protestant circles..... unfortunately.

So perhaps, I should say a thing or two about them. I’ve outlined four points.... strangely the last two are the most important. That has always been my style. I save the best for the last. The first two explains why Catholics allow paintings, images and sculptures in the first place.

BEFORE THAT, A PREFACE:
In my logic and philosophy class, back in undergrad.... I picked up something from my lecturer that changed my life FOREVER. He said: “when you want to criticize a people. Study them with a clean slate. Place yourself in their shoes. You don’t necessarily need to agree with them on the long run, but you’d see things in their perspective. In a way, this even helps you in countering their arguments at the very root.”

With this in mind, I plead that those of you whose anti-Catholicism erupts like a volcano, at the mere mention of the word: catholic, should keep calm and hear me out. You don’t necessarily need to agree with me, but at least you’d understand the reason why demonic sculptures are on some ancient catholic Churches.

THE REASON FOR DEMONIC SCULPTURES ON SOME catholic CHURCHES.

1. First and foremost, the Roman catholic, orthodox, traditional-Lutheran and traditional-Anglican understanding of “images, sculptures and paintings” is very different from those of most Protestants.

For Catholics, when God forbade the making of images, he wasn’t saying you can’t have images. He was saying you can’t deify (godize) images or worship them. A few chapters after God forbade the making of images, he instructed the Israelites on the specifications of how the temple of Jerusalem should be built. What do we find there: images, sculptures and unknown creatures. The most significant is the sculpture of the two cherubims above the Ark of the covenant on either side.

GOD CANNOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF.

If he forbad images, in their totality, why would he instruct that above the ‘holy of Holies’ (as the ark is called), should be the sculpture of two Cherubims. And remember, it was typical for the Priests to lay flat before it. In fact, non, but the tribe of Levi could even touch it. On one occasion, during the transportation of the ark, it almost fell from the hands of the Priests. Two lay men decided to save the ark from falling and the Bible records that the lord struck them dead, IMMEDIATELY.

This shows that the ark with the cherubims was very important, I could even say ‘sacred.’

Was it not the same God that instructed Moses to mould the snake and place it on a standard? And through it, transmitted his healing power on the Jews in the wilderness that looked onto it.

We can immediately see, that the biblical prohibition on statues are not absolute. What the Bible forbids is that “you shall not have any other god besides me.” Don’t deify images, sculptures and statues. Technically, if we are to apply the obscure logic used against Catholics, then the Bible might also forbid us having regular family pictures in our homes; It will be a sin for a grieving mother to kiss the picture of her deceased son; Rochas Okorocha might be on a first class flight to hell for his multiple sculptures in Owerri. (Don’t tell him I wrote this � ).

I know to Protestant sensibilities, the idea of Catholics bowing to images of saints, is a form of worship. But that’s not really true. I know we have some Catholics who are excessive about the outward practice of their faith, but we must look at official church documents and teachings. The catholic is not like some churches, where you do what you like. The catholic Church has canons, ecumenical councils, synods and official papal documents. If you do as you please, well you’re living contrary to the catholic faith. FULL STOP!

Anglicanism itself allows that joke. It calls it “comprehensiveness and diversity.” (This wasn’t intended to be a critique of Anglicans. I am only quoting the official church documents on diversity of theological expression as composed by Anglicans themselves in the Lambert Conference). CATHOLICISM calls that heresy.

More-also, If bowing to anyone but God is an act of worship, then we are in for a serious problem. Yoruba people will be going to hell for prostrating before their elders; the English and royalists around the world will also go to hell for ‘curtsying’ to royals. Lawyers also bow to judges. The lists go on. So we should be careful what we wish for.

So images are not forbidden by God but worshipping them is. Bowing to anything or anyone but God does not necessarily mean it constitutes an act of worship.

2. Secondly, it’s painful when modern lawyers are ignorant of history and the evolution of civil law.

Most of us don’t know that civil law in anglophone and francophone jurisdictions- in the past- were influenced by Roman law. It explains why ‘Latin’ was the official language of the educated in ancient Europe.

Law as obtained in common law jurisdictions (England, Nigeria, Scotland, some parts of Canada, Australia, Ghana, America etc), have their roots in ancient religions, particularly of Ancient Rome.

It is a principle of Roman law that ‘an act’ (actus reus) is not sufficient to establish guilt. The ‘mental element’ (mens rea) is important for someone to be guilty.

The same is obtainable in moral questions. So the fact that a catholic stands before a statue may constitute the ‘act’, we must consider the ‘mental’ element. Is that person intending to worship that statue as a god?

If you want my sincere opinion, NO catholic INTENDS TO DEIFY STATUES. I know some have extreme ways of expressing their catholic faith, but I have been a catholic all my life and trust me when I say: I HAVE NEVER EVER CONSIDERED A STATUE OR MARY AS MY gOD. I BELIEVE IN THE TRUDINE GOD like most Christians and nothing more.

In fact, two years into his pontificate, Pope Benedict XVIII excommunicated a group of nuns in Latin America. They claimed Mary was equal to the father, the son and the Holy Spirit. After asking them to recant their heretical position, they refused. THE POPE EXCOMMUNICATED THEM. And to date, they’ve not been accepted back to the catholic Church. But anti-catholic Protestant theologians will never ever report this sort of news, because it doesn’t fuel/feed their anti-Catholicism.

3. The cathedral of Notre Dame de Paris was built in the 12-13th century.

In those centuries and the centuries preceding them, most of Europe’s population was illiterate. So the church devised a means of teaching the illiterate population: it used pictures and sculptures. ART SPEAKS TO EVERYONE, even to illiterates.

So it became very usual for ancient catholic Churches to be filled with paintings, images and sculptures. The church uses them for teaching, expression of theological questions. Modern Protestants do the same. They act movies and cartoons of Jesus. Those are also images. Let’s not forget.

It is an extreme reading of the prohibition of images, sculptures and statues that has led Muslims to attack anyone who attempts to represent Allah or Mohammed in movies and cartoons. Christian biblical fundamentalists want to take us down the same cursed path.

4. About the presence gargoyles on church buildings ....... they are used as a depiction of the ugliness of sin, evil and Satan.

Strictly speaking, gargoyles weren’t even intended to depict demons. They were intended to depict how sin disfigures God’s creation.

The idea that they are demonic figures are funny. Non of us have seen demons, so where did we get the idea that gargoyles look like demos when non of us knows what a demon looks like

(All through this post I purposely referred to them as ‘demons’ because that is the popular opinion held......... I decided to flow with the ignorant.).

The ancients used it to show what evil does to the soul. That is why they are so ugly. To make that point they place the sculptures of gulgogs in obscure and disadvantaged positions, when compared to the apostles and the saints.

Notre Dame cathedral had the statues of the apostles elevated above the entire church on the spire. But the gargoyles beneath them. A copper rooster � is also placed atop the spire. In catholic iconography roosters � represent “announcing the gospel,” just as roosters do in real life every morning-announcing a new day.

That was a way of teaching the population that a life in Christ is an elevated way of living, while a life in the devil makes the soul ugly and unpresentable and is beneath those of the children of God.

Most importantly, they are placed outside the church. That was made intentionally. It was a way the artisans thought people that ‘outside the church/fold of Christ, all you have is darkness and Satan.

I am going through the pain of writing this long post so that Catholics can be understood from where we stand. We are not stupid to put images of Satan on our buildings without a reason. We hate him just as much as you do..... CUT US SOME SLACK.

We have reasons. They may not satisfy you but they satisfy us. And it is offensive to think that my faith must make sense to you. No! I am under no obligation to see things the way you do.

Protestants must stop this sheer nonsense of ‘arrogance of knowledge.” A subtle claim of possessing an accuracy of answers to all christological and Christian doctrinal Questions

I'm sorry, but I didn't read everything you wrote up there because it's unnecessarily wordy. But just know that the Catholic images and sculptures all over the world all serve one purpose - to be worshiped - some times, directly and some other times, indirectly. These ones here are a direct glorification and worship of demons and Satan. This is the hard truth. If I see something similar in a Pentecostal church, I'll point it out too.

This life is so so unpredictable. Someone who was calling all the shots just a month ago, is now a common prisoner.

JoannaSedley:
David, you're beginning to beat about the bush.

Didn't you see the human sculptures and birds there or you prefer blind man arguments.? I wonder how flowers can serve as a gargoyle. Not an architectural impossibility in present times but remember this is in the dark ages.

I have never beaten about the bush concerning my conviction about that building: everything about it reeks of Satanism and occultism. Why were the gargoyles not exclusively made of birds or those human beings alone? Why should the monsters and demons be included? Because the building was intentionally dedicated to Satan - there are no two ways about this.

JeromeBlack:
Many pagan deities are actually represented by animals especially birds.

Hindus worship cows (or see them as holy)

The demon Baphomet is represented by a goat

OK, why must the gargoyles then be monsters? Why were they not sculptures of ordinary human beings or flowers or just birds?

Ubenedictus:
First the Catholic Church doesn't worship saints, we venerate their memory, statues of saints are found inside the church not outside, and no medieval architecture will use a saints statue to conduct water from a roof, it will be seen as disrespectful to use and image of Jesus or a saint for that.

So it's the images of demons that should be used? Why not beautiful birds, cow, goat, etc?

Ubenedictus:
gargoyle are architectural designs from medieval times. Nothing to do with the occult

Of course, not all gargoyles are occultic, but the ones shown in this thread are clearly satanic. Gargoyles are for collecting water from rainfall to protect the building from direct effect of water from the rain - why should the gargoyles be made of scary animals and demon-like figures? What about those other statues standing on the ground; are they also collecting water. Read on gargoyle monsters from Wikipedia or Google.

gwama:
These frightful statutes called gargoyles, they are hideous in order to repel the evil.

LOL. How can evil repel evil?

Ubenedictus:
read up https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargoyle&hl=en-NG

I have read it. What's your point exactly?

Justice served. At least this CCT chairman has finally proven useful for once. We all know he set Saraki free after underhand deals and begging were made. He knows it's either he convicts Onnoghen or EFCC swoops on his own bribery case of many years ago.

tuniski:
Fef

You mean Danladi was blackmailed into delivering this verdict? chai

Most probably. The long and short of this is that almost all our judges are criminals and bribe receivers.

If that Umar of a person sets Onnoghen free like he set Saraki free, then it's past the time he himself is forced to resign, since the word 'convict' is not in his dictionary.

It's Africa that's still tied to the apron strings of the West. Asian countries have long broken off and are now independent in terms of manufacturing. Japanese use their Toyota and even export millions to Europe and US. The Koreans have Hyundai and Kai. Indians have Tata Motors. Etc.

JeromeBlack:
You lack sense. That is why you see demons and Satan everywhere.

Keep being afraid of statues and art

I won't dignify your arrogance with any response, other than tell you to grow up.

shaybebaby:
Don't know about anyone else but this looked like a regular ol church service to me when I saw it.

Those photos above are outside of the buildings, not inside. Of course the inside looks like any other church cathedral, but the entire outside is laced with gargoyle, demon sculptures, etc.

budaatum:
According to Lester Burbank Bridaham, writing in Gargoylaes, Chimeres and the Grotesque in French Gothic Sculpture, "There is much symbolism in the sculpture of the Gothic period; but we must be wary of reading in too much meaning" .

They need to be understood in the context in which they were created and not in today's context.

LOL. Satan works in such a way that he DOESN'T want you to even believe he exists. That the writer of that book told us to be wary of reading" too much meaning "to it already shows they're trying to hide the truth under the guise of Gothic architecture.

JeromeBlack:
You will find gargoyles in many classical buildings in Europe. It was a gothic art phase.

Typical Nigerian over-religiousity to find demons everywhere. Religion has really decimated the thinking abilities of many nigerians

Gothic architecture is different from gargoyle, demon figures, etc. Those who had such sculptures are most likely in the occult. Google and Wikipedia are still free - check them out.

OpenYourEyes1:
Interesting stuff.
Gargoyles is most likely satanic.
Reminds me of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWjBsC04GQ

Not most likely satanic, it's completely satanic and these were intentionally included in the cathedral.

JoannaSedley:
Conservative and 13th century shouldn't go hand in hand. They are world's apart.
Thats by the way. Notre Dame DE Paris is a work of art. A French Gothic architecture that took more than 200 years to complete. Has had many renovation works done for more than 850 years of which one was being done before the fire outbreak. Many artists feom different nationalities tested their artistic skills there. Not necessarily to depict religiousity but to imprint their foot prints in the sands of time. Same was done by Michelangelo in the Sistine chapel.

They should go hand-in-hand because as life ages, people tend to become more liberal (or less conservative). So are you saying people in 2019 tend to be more conservative than those in the 1960s?

Those artists or sculptors were told what to do. They didn't just decide to design these statues against the wishes of the cathedral.

JoannaSedley:
Has it ever occur to you that this cathedral was built in the 13th century with different perception of what angels and demons are?

Firstly where are you in the study of history, arts and contemporary cultures? Let's start from there.
People often tries to demean what they do not understand.

LOL. I didn't just jump on these photos to begin making wild assumptions. Do you know that 13th Century people were much more conservative than we are today? Do you know that Michaelangelo once said he cannot paint a picture of an unclad person because according to him, it's wrong in the sight of God? And that was in the 16th Century.

ifex370:
Hmmmm. It behoves us to study.

That's right. Some of the things we dismiss as ordinary are really not ordinary.

HsLBroker:
I will ask my superior

Are you a Catholic member?

RoyalBlu:
I think it's merely a depiction of Angels and demons...

I'm not a Catholic tho.

Not at all. It's a well-planned out depiction of Satanism masked under artwork and sculpture.

JoannaSedley:
The Satanist theorists, you can find them practically anywhere in the whole world. Here, we have them poking holes in the smoldering remains of Notre Dame, even before the flames is finally extinguished.

Notre Dame is an architectural masterpiece, you lots should leave it at that.

This is not an issue of conspiracy theories. How can a so-called church building house these sorts of scary statues? What true messages can they really pass? These are the kind of statues and artwork you see at places like the infamous Denver Airport having all sorts of satanic murals, symbols and artwork (check Google).

These are just a few of the scary statues in a supposed church cathedral. Don't these photos pass off as what one would expect to see in an occult building HQ?

....

First two photos

Notre-Dame de Paris (meaning "Our Lady of Paris"), often referred to simply as Notre-Dame, is a medieval Catholic cathedral on the Île de la Cité in the 4th arrondissement of Paris, France. The cathedral is consecrated to the
Virgin Mary and considered to be one of the finest examples of French Gothic architecture. Its innovative use of the rib vault and flying buttress, its enormous and colourful rose windows, and the naturalism and abundance of its sculptural decoration set it apart from the earlier Romanesque style. - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris

You see how our judges are encouraging 'yahoo' boys and 'yahoo' politicians to continue in their fraud? How do you give criminals an option of ₦100k fine for a fraud of this magnitude?

Lol. The way this people have been beating the drum of rice revolution you'll think a bag of rice now sells for ₦7000. Alas it's still ₦18000 in many states, aside ** State where I know it goes for less than ₦13000.

For Omotola...he was actually insinuating that you're not making clean money. Because aproko bloggers never catch you, abi? Go and bring your police!

Daliano:
What happened when he recalled the battalion?

I'll leave the rest of the story to your imagination.

Why? The sad truth is that Onnoghen is guilty, but so are nearly all the Supreme Court Justices. The only difference is that the rest haven't been caught yet.