₦airaland Forum

shymexx: So, black men are the only ones who "marginalised" them, no? How come this anger is never directed towards to degraded and have continued to make their standard of beauty irrelevant?? How about channeling the same anger towards the race of people who raped them during slavery and colonisation, and made them maids/servants/slaves? If you want to be angry, be angry at everyone, not just black men...

Black women's anger is synonymous with black thugs/gangsters' anger - you know why? Because they direct their anger at the wrong people... Black women are angry at black men, while black thugs/gangsters are angry at one another - a case of misdirected anger...

Didn't say black men were the only group to do anything to black women (and v. v.) and the "anger" makes its rounds. Again all you got was "beauty" out of it. So I'll say it again, separate platform , better results. I'm still trying to figure how black women were just maids, slaves, and servants before 1964, then again this is how black men see the history of black women. You don't know all they accomplished, just that they are "angry". Unfortunately the arrogance in the AA male perspective can only see black women working and living in one direction and in a single facet. Thank you for proving my point. My ancestors are dead and at peace. You and I don't have the capacity to fully understand what they went through. So it would be nice if they weren't trotted out every time a black guy has an issue with how black women operate. Its gets pretty redundant after a while.

This is from a Jamaican writer who does in fact live in Jamaica. I don't square with everything he says be his is nothing if not consistent. Plus he has naked women on his blog on for the gentlemen that might need some incentive to view a different perspective, his post with several shirtless men is why I tuned in-being honest here. But I figure it this way, if it comes from a man you might believe it more and this kind of dove tails with my premise for black women maintaining a separate platform and identify as whole persons; as black women, not just black people who happen to be women.

http://satanforce./about/

"That black women have, for the most part, disengaged themselves from issues of race is lamentable, but it was inevitable. You believe that black women still think of themselves as being a part of a community that is called Black People? Then go outside, and take a walk. Count how many Rastamen you see. Repeat that walk. Count how many Rastawomen you see. Maybe you live in another country, so repeat this exercise with Five-Percent Nation or Nation of Islam instead. I’m looking at something like a 6.2 to 1 ratio in favour (or rather, displeasure) of the men.

The reason why I chose those particular organizations is because in their respective societies, they represent the political vanguard of what is considered “Blackness” in each of their countries. Each of them eventually developed a culture of misogyny that was an exaggerated mirror of the the very societies that they claimed to be against. According to Barry Chevannes, Rastafari’s dominance by the House of Nyahbinghi in the 1940s, saw it take a fundamentalist turn, that embraced Old Testament biblical literalism. Specifically, the Book of Leviticus, complete with the cleanliness laws that have alienated black women from Rastafari – and by extension, most other black movements.

That’s just one example. Whether it be Stokely Carmichael telling black women that their only position in SNCC is “prone”, not to mention the treatment of women in the Black Panther Party, one cannot blame black women for being skeptical of any black movement. Here is Elaine Brown in th Black Panther Party.

“A woman in the Black Power movement was considered, at best, irrelevant. A woman asserting herself was a pariah. If a black woman assumed a role of leadership, she was said to be eroding black manhood, to be hindering the progress of the black race. She was an enemy of the black people…. I knew I had to muster something mighty to manage the Black Panther Party.”

The above statement epitomizes everything that would keep black women away from any movement that involved blackness or Black Power."

shymexx: When I said, we're the same, I was talking about our struggle in the grand scheme of things vis-a-vis our social status in the world, in comparison to other races.... And our struggles are similar albeit different experiences...

It would be simplistic to classify our thought process(es) into African, Caribbean, and AA - because there are tons of African whose thought process is similar to AAs and Caribbeans than other Africans and vice versa... Everything depends on your experience, awareness about the world, and your level of consciousness... Personally, I can relate to certain AAs and Caribbeans than most Nigerians - and there are loads of Nigerians like that on this forum...

Culture isn't just about the outfit, food, and the language, it's a state of mind... I can also argue that there are loads of AAs and Caribbeans who're culturally more African than most Africans...

Back to the topic:

Are black women always angry? - Absolutely yes!

Is it just an AA and Caribbean thing? - Hell no African women are also always angry - add rude to their temperament...

Why are they angry? - I don't know... Perhaps it's because they're trying to ascertain where they fit in the world... However, you can't really blame them for being angry... The black woman has been disrespected, degraded, and abused for too long - I guess she's just trying to stand up for herself, and say: enough is enough... It's probably a subconscious thing....

They have stood up for themselves, in fact when they do that is when they're seen as "angry" when their not, they're just making the people who participate in their marginalization uncomfortable.

stillwater: Sorry about your hand. But don't you think we are better off carrying each other (black men/women) along. Because I see a situation of black women making these progresses, but black men being left behind and there's a lack of education of our issues on the men's part. For instance the revolution of natural hair among black women. It's good but many black men are still irreconcilable to our hair type. So I feel as much as we can achieve this alone, if the other is illiterate to our causes, it would drag us back. When I see shows like 'black girls rock', 'my black is beautiful', I often wonder if there are shows for black boys too (correct me if I'm wrong). . . We don't want a situation where the girls are being enlightened and the boys are left behind. To be honest I think the guys need these type of shows more.

Thanks, it'll get better but it sucks typing with 6 fingers . I don't know how much you know about blackgirlsrock or natural hair (an industry and forum, not movement) but they were started by average, everyday women. They didn't wait for Oprah and they're not waiting no the First Lady either. What is stopping black men from doing the same for boys? They have more resources and clout in society and in the black population than black women so you might want to ask; why black men haven't answered this demand?

Black women have their own priorities and issues that affect them more directly, several being a matter of mortality and quality of life, than issues that affect black men. Black men need to build their own platform to address the needs of men and boys. Some already are and there is little complaint from black women about them being not being inclusive to girls. When the black sexes get together they don't carry each other, everyone carries black men and sometimes at the expense of black boys.

[/b]If you ask any black man how systemic racism affects black women they'll give you 1 or both of the following ways if any at all:
White Beauty Standards
Under-educates, Under-employs, and Over-incarcerates Black Men so that Black Women don't have husbands.[b]

The first reduces black women's perspective on racism to one of vanity. For Black men inequality for Black women is rooted their looks, not in the marginalization of their academic, social, and political potential.
The second places black men at the center of racial victim hood as if it isn't possible for black women to experience racial discrimination independent of black men.

This is why Black women need to maintain a separate platform. Black men aren't interested in how racism or even gender marginalization affects black women or care......and that is completely okay with me. But if and when there is a demand/request to divert resources or efforts from black women and girls to black men and boys because they aren't interested or don't care, that isn't okay with me.

Blyss: Wrong. I'm 100% Black-American or African-American as you call us. By the way, I work with a shiat load of white guys, and a few white females, all the time. All of the guys, with the exception of one are married to white women, and the the one whom isn't is married to a Black-American woman. Now often times, during downtime in the work day groups of us would sit around and randomly talk about home life and the likes, and I swear to god that I am happy as shiat that the lord gave me the fortitude to stay away from white girls. The stories they tell about their wives makes the shiat brothas complain about with their black wives, look mediocre. The dudes go through HELL with these white women. 40% of them, don't even sleep in the same room as their wives anymore, not to mention have an intimate relationship with them.

Their wives are total control freaks, some of these dudes even give up their weakly checks to their wives every week. Most of their wives don't work, don't want to work and don't feel as they they should have to work and so they don't even bother looking for a job, despite the fact of that their family could really use some extra income. When these dudes get up the nerve to address them about the issue, they get cussed out and call Lazy, no good, stupid and all kinds of shiat; they even get the "My mother told me I shouldn't of married your no good azz" and the "I cant believe I was stupid enough to have kids with you" comment from them constantly.

It's gotten so bad that I'll say another 5% of the dudes just moved on out the house to go live with their parents, a friend, or in a hotel, because even sleeping in a separate room wasn't enough. The only reason they stay with these women is because they don't want to lose all their money and property to these women when they leave them. They don't really care about the kids too much, because the mother has most them hatting his guts anyway.

I mean I can go on all day with this, but the moral of what I'm getting at, is that it's not just a black-American thing, it's an AMERICAN WOMAN thing. AMERICAN women period, no matter what Color they are, all act the same. They all carry the same attitudes, demand the same things, and threaten you with the same threats if shiat don't go their way. Many are nice but many are also mean as hell, but BA are just a much more vocal group than others in regard to their issues and unfortunately, find nothing wrong in airing out their issues randomly around public forms.

I am 100% and I'll be addressing your post in a few days.

birdman: Yes you did. "Shaping" or whatever you want to call it is still the blame game. Accept responsibility for your own actions. And Im not uncomfortable or angry about anything

There is no "your" here, its called cultural reflection meaning its more accessible and objective than your personal perspective. This did make you uncomfortable, not because it wasn't true, but because you can't rebut adequately.

stillwater: You bring fresh insights to this topic. But I want to be clear on something. Is it your premise that Black women can handle whatever issues involving them without support? Because I see rhymz actions as support not sympathy.

Thank you.
Yes they can, they did before. Same for black men, they have to go at it alone. Lending and soliciting support from other groups is fine as line as that cooperation only runs the course of that issue and both groups walk away with what they wanted. I hurt my hand so I can't type as much as I want right now.

rhymz: Well, I cant agree more with you. You have said it all. However, I was actually talking in relation to issues that affect women in general instead of making it seem more like a black woman problem, they can give it a wider purpose while solving the problem if it affects their demography the most. You know like achieving a goal using different means, it makes the burden lighter, less stress, gives the issue more attention and clout plus the needed sympathy to force action. Making every problem all about the black woman thing can be alienating if not handled with caution, it makes other women outside the race but with thesame problem feel like their problems are not being given any consideration as well just because they are not black. Of course black women should have causes set up to help other black women but when it comes to discussing it and how it affects them as women, it should be given a wider appeal that makes it the problem of every woman not just black. I bet there are more non-black women with many issues that black women will thank God they don't have.

Other races of women tend to withdrawal their support once they see their privilege over Black women. But when you look that Ball you notice 2 things;
1. Black women were internationally respected and the fact that there were no white countries represented (and possibly not invited) should tell you how they felt about collecting sympathy vs a political and social footing.
2. This event wasn't covered in white media despite Heads of State and the President himself and the First Lady attending. Those African American women didn't care either, all they cared about was raising money for their founder's memorial and meeting women from almost every continent for a cultural exchange.

Black women managed the burden of their activism with their own social and culture clubs; bowling teams, art appreciation, charity, etc. They also practiced practical activism by having neighborhood, city, and state organizations level to make sure all issues were given a place and resources wouldn't be spread too thin. In 1935 they established the NCNW to create leadership opportunities, secure and offer financial assistance for small business and non-profits, and streamline their procedures. I know the history of African American women very well and partly because I enjoy correcting false narratives.

But you also might want to examine your perception of black women. This isn't an attack so just go with it. Is there something in your mind that makes you think that Black women, African American or otherwise, couldn't handle this on their own? Garnering sympathy doesn't result in clout, it results in pity and makes would be contributors take a paternal approach to your platform in an effort to control it because they don't believe you can. Dambisa Moyo also examines that paternal perspective when looking at how European and American charities see Africa; as children who need guidance and not business partners or sovereign nations with their own diplomatic potential. There is no shortage of Blacks in the states, the Caribbean, and Europe who also see Africa this way. I don't need to ask an someone from the continent how annoying and frustrating it is to tell people in New York that there are skyscrapes in Nairobi and suburbs in Abuja.

Denise216: No actually that won't work. Black women have a hierarchy of priorities that no one else takes seriously, they're just mocked or made trivial. So Black women need to get back to separate platforms and identity, at least in the states. Black men aren't going to advocate for breast cancer research in African American women, studies to show the link between work place discrimination and prejudice and premature births, access to stabilizing hormones found in oral contraception because 1 in 4 African American women hemorrhage with their monthly mens. cycle (this is also going on the Jamaica and Haiti). Right now Black women have been able to control the natural hair niche and take 20% of the industry back, they need R & D. Then there are the non-profits that black women created that need to be revamped so that they function in the interests of black women they way they used to. That's a lot and that's just off the top of my head. Its not alienation its giving issues the priority they need to get things done and not waiting for your concerns to be put through a gender filter despite contributing equal resources.

B-R-E-A-S-T was changed to bosom..lol

rhymz: exactly the premise of my earlier argument, instead of the alienating "strong black woman" or always playing the race card- even when we can easily gather ourselves and achieve an aim without neccessarily alienating others to our cause- we can realign our pursuit and make it an all-inclusive aim like conferences like this one does. It is high time black women take off that tough "strong black woman" toga that can be alienating and just approach their struggle in a different way that give others the opportunity empathize with them and also share their own experiences too.

No actually that won't work. Black women have a hierarchy of priorities that no one else takes seriously, they're just mocked or made trivial. So Black women need to get back to separate platforms and identity, at least in the states. Black men aren't going to advocate for breast cancer research in African American women, studies to show the link between work place discrimination and prejudice and premature births, access to stabilizing hormones found in oral contraception because 1 in 4 African American women hemorrhage with their monthly mens. cycle (this is also going on the Jamaica and Haiti). Right now Black women have been able to control the natural hair niche and take 20% of the industry back, they need R & D. Then there are the non-profits that black women created that need to be revamped so that they function in the interests of black women they way they used to. That's a lot and that's just off the top of my head. Its not alienation its giving issues the priority they need to get things done and not waiting for your concerns to be put through a gender filter despite contributing equal resources.

rhymz: I have tried with no success to read the excerpt from that Ebony page, would appreciate it if you can paste it here.
You are very correct, everyone has the right to define their racial identity as they deem fit, that way it is easier to talk about people on individual basis and not use blancket statement to label an entire group or race of people. Come to think of it, white people get away with a lot of things that black people do and get labelled for, nobody generalizes when it comes to them, it is usually on individual basis.

Its fine to use a generalization to create a premise. In fact you have to because it'll be implied anyway. Its also necessary when debating a generalization as long as the discussion remains consistent and impersonal.

I know plenty of AA women who completely check out of AA culture because it conflicts with their interests and hobbies. AA culture is extremely isolating, so much so that anything that deviates from it has to begin with "Black". Black Steampunks, Black Scene Kids, Black Anime Clubs, Black Heavy Metal, etc.

rhymz: I have tried with no success to read the excerpt from that Ebony page, would appreciate it if you can paste it here.
You are very correct, everyone has the right to define their racial identity as they deem fit, that way it is easier to talk about people on individual basis and not use blancket statement to label an entire group or race of people. Come to think of it, white people get away with a lot of things that black people do and get labelled for, nobody generalizes when it comes to them, it is usually on individual basis.

I can't paste the text because of the format but I can give you a summary: International Debutante Ball hosted by the National Council of Negro Women, 1960. The Ball was to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the organization and raise funds to build a memorial to honor their founder, Mary McLeod-Bethune.Nations in attendance: Ghana, Israel, Puerto Rico, Senegal, Nigeria, South Africa, India, South Korea, Sierra Leone, Bermuda, Jamaica, and China.

rhymz: shows you how unsure and unwilling many black people are when it comes to admitting some damning truth.

Who knows. I just know there is nothing wrong with letting AA men define Blackness for themselves while AA women maintain a separate identity as whole persons. Like a Nigerian women doesn't just act Nigerian, she acts like a Nigerian woman, the intersection of culture and femininity if that makes sense.

You want to hear something ironic? Before the 1970s AA women would take a diplomatic approach to gain support for their causes. So instead of using oppression to establish a common bond, they used...........femininity. Check this out, page 45:

http://books.google.com/books?id=SukdU2sNRnwC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=international+debutante+ball+ebony&source=bl&ots=5Z1sT4ZF0O&sig=WyNvhARZcHPJDFjpHbV7rdOKB8U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yzCVUPbWPNGgyAGLyoGYCw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=international%20debutante%20ball%20ebony&f=false

rhymz: so in a way, it goes around like that? Perhaps they are oblivious of the damning effect this might have on their image as black women. But again, the claims of black women being angry almost always comes from AA male folks. I hear that a lot on commedy central and everyone just laughs it off as a joke but is it realy a joke?
I know some African men not AA now, that think many African American women can be realy hard to get along with, don't know how true these assertions are but I think sometimes they speak from experience and other times just the usual stereo-typing promoted by the media and the African-American music culture and commedy.

If you call an AA woman "angry" then you pretty much have scapegoat for any way you might have contributed to the reaction. Its also another way to keep them from expressing their displeasure with you or taking it seriously. "You" being used hypothetically of course.

The media has its part to play, promoting white normalcy is a way to keep whites comfortable about any prejudicies they might have. AA women participating in that kind of social manipulation for a paycheck doesn't help either. AA culture used to be amazing and productive, more than the dominate culure. And that wasn't because they were assimilated, it had everything to do with dignity and strong moral code that whites (in general) at the time found unnerving.

African men and AA women can get along with a little compromise and (not to be nasty) sexual effort. Inter-ethnic coouples benefit from that approach, so do the children. Its the difference between a happy couple who enjoys their time togther and one that just exist because of tradition.

birdman: When you buy into the angry stereotype, black men and women end up blaming each other, conjuring false ideas as you just did, and then turn on each other. Little wonder the concept of a healthy functioning black family itself has taken a hit. Think people, and stop throwing stones at your own house.

Btw, just because DL Hughely is black doesnt mean he speaks for the same, or has our best interests in mind.

Did I blame AA men or just make you uncomfortable with the idea of AA men shaping an image of "Blackness" that works against any form of femininity. Square with the latter and there might hope for you yet.

rhymz: you know there is something so masculine and macho about it that one gets the impression that the root of their anger and attitude atimes stems from the attitude of many AA MALES. Infact, this assertion has been made popular by our hiphop stars some black movie producers like Tyler Perry. Every time you watch a black American movie, there is always a female character portrayed in that way, you get this no-nonsense, gun-wielding, tough black female characters that takes everything serious while the males are busy gangbanging eachother on the streets. I think it is high time black people in America change that visual imagery of themselves.

AA men pay to see themselves portrayed as such and AA women pay to see AA men dress up as AA women and portray AA women as such. It's not just Tyler Perry either.

1970s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCruefYl3FI

1990s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rHFVf0enXs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBG_ZqH6V3s

African American women didn't get the "angry" tag until they started identifying with being "Black" only. Around the late 60s or so Black men started becoming abrasive and hostile, basically equating Blackness with a permanent temper tantrum. Black women wanting to prove their solidarity took on that persona and its been downhill since. AA men are still angry but can be easily placated with money or sex, even under obvious racial conditions (selling drugs, making ridiculous music, etc.) Prior to the late 60's AA women maintained a separate identity and platform that allowed them to be seen as virtuous women even in the face of savage behavior from white and AA men. So the skin and feature thing was never an issue, being closely identitifed as "Black" according to black men is what set their femininity back.

ItsModella: wtf mehn? who be dis guy? Denrele's apprentice?

https://cdn.bellanaija.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/BN-Red-Carpet-Fab-Elite-Model-Look-Nigeria-2012-Finale071.jpg

WERK!!!!

Pretty women, too much weave though. Happens in the US and the UK too. That much hair can make a pretty women look like a drag queen.

if i told you, i'd have to kill you.

sanb: @op...I just wonder when women come out to say they can’t cook...just surprises me to hear such a flimsy statement. I thought that the way to a man’s heart is through his stomach or doesn’t she realise that...well I’m sorry for her cause someone else would soon take her position. Am just trying to imagine what sort of up bringing she had... she can't cook, she can’t do the domestic chores in the house then what exactly can she do if I may ask

My advice would be for you to either send her to a school that can teach her how to cook, teach her yourself if you know how to cook, get a female relative to teach her, employ a cook (this one I’ll discourage though) or send her to your mother then may be she’ll sit up...

As for her not been able to do domestic chores hmmm that would be very hard; I can just imagine what your house would look like... very untidy. That needs to be tackled fast before you make her your wife otherwise...

Can Nigerian Men cook worth a damn? No offense but sometimes I wonder if the only reason these guys get married is to keep from having smelly clothes and starving to death.

The legend Mahalia Jackson (for you young folks). I'm not a religious person and this song gets me every time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRVzOV5ZaLs

I don;t like or want kids. That is why I'm single. The idea of a mother-in-law makes me want to stay single. LOL.

Nebeuwa: I was recently arguing with a Nigerian friend of mine, concerning this topic. She believes that African Americans do not have a culture and that it is only a subset of the wider American culture.

At first, I was offended when she made that statement, because I saw that as an attack on half of my identity through my maternal side. I stated by looking at our music, our cuisine and our form of speech, that is an expression of culture.

So do you all think African Americans have a culture or not?

Yes. Then again its my culture being denied.

Meddler: I'm sorry if I offended anyone. That was not my intention. I believe its up to you how you decide to wear ur hair. I created this topic as a support thread for other naturals (yes you have to differentiate it). The fact is that most of us b4 going natural had little or no clue about natural hair maintenance. Its not easy and to be honest can be a bit fustrating. So for those willing to share their experiences pls keep em coming. I've been natural for 5 yrs but keep learning new things everyday. P.S. I think a natural hair gathering in naija wud be a nice way to meet fellow naturals.

I couldn't find anything wrong with your initial post and we can assume that most readers got the gist. You're a class-act too, taking the critiques in stride and staying a lady-I admire that. Good Luck finding people with natural hair in common and quiet as its kept, a Nigerian Natural Hair Expo, if planned carefully and in enough advance, would be HUGE ($$$). You seem to have a level head, I say make it happen.

I don't have a ceremonial story or anything. I cut it off in 99 and again in 2004 and never relaxed again. I just it cut UP TO the waist in June. I can't handle more than that and the longer it got the harder it was to style. Now I just wash, condition, detangle. blowout, and pin it up. Still 6 hours of work but during the week I don't have to do anything else but tie it down. The best times were when my hair was around my shoulders. I had more options and time back time then.

Good Luck