₦airaland Forum

Nihilist, that is just being awfully selective. Of course highlight the bad moments of a player to paint an overall picture of him being bad.
Not different from what YouTubers do, just recently came across a compilation of Mendy's errors to make it seem as if he's been overrated.

Eg. Below is tuchel criticizing kante and saying kovacic might be better, despite kante being Soo good.

Ibime:
No matter how much you repeat a lie will never make it true. I have been a big supporter of Drogba since 2009. Why I wasn't before is encapsulated below and in his stats from 2008 and 2009. Maybe you were too busy to notice then but Drogba was out of shape for most of those two seasons and openly flirting with AC Milan and other clubs stating he would like to join them in newspapers. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.
As for Iniesta, he is never an average player. He is a carry along though. If other AMs decide to contribute to winning games at the same rate at him, their teams will never be successful.
This will be the umpteenth time you will go on unrelated commentary on personality. I would advise you keep your emotions in check and focus on the discussion at hand.

You are not telling the truth. Deep into 2011, you were against Drogba. Maybe later I'll dig into it for people to see how you use to castigate him. Then you mostly called him DD. anyways even apart from that, till today, anytime any comparison is made between Drogba and anybody, you will still rush to discredit Drogba. The negative bias is there to see.

As for the accusations of being emotional. . It's clear that you are the one that has been very emotional on this issue. Once you see jorginho's name anywhere, you rush to start criticizing him. It's fair to say you're obsessed over this issue. Look at today, I praised and acknowledged his match winning role for us yesterday and posted excerpts from twitter, lacing it with the poll we had here and you rushed to counter it.

As for personals, you've twice insulted me personally saying I know absolutely nothing and did "my head is vacant". I have called you arrogant because of this precise fact. You always insult people's intelligence when arguing with them. But even at that, I don't even mean it personally. This is the singular issue we are miles apart on, we agree on almost everything else, from social issues, to political issues, to economic issues to financial issues where I actually actively invest in your tips on the crypto page. We are very cool bro. Don't take anything personally. I certainly don't.

amodu:
You're doing a wonderful job my brother with not agreeing with Ibime to rub his ideas on you.

Ibime is very logical and possessor of healthy intelligence quotient, when he takes a stand, he doesn't shift. Do not be expectant he will succumb to you in any engagement. Even if he at some point, he agree, it will be within him, he will never admit nor express it.
No be today ooo, e Don tey

Well I try as much as I can. People relatively new here would not know ibime's kind of person. We the old ones here can only try to point out his obstinacy.

When someone holds the position that iniesta and Drogba are average for 10 fucking_years. You know how stubborn the person is. It shows he's never ready to change opinions.
You've been on this thread for 15 years. Myself 10 years. Ibime's tricks are not new.

Exonerate1:
Over 4 seasons now and it's still the same shiit. Don't the club know we need a new specialist?

4 seasons, 2 European cup for us and 5 cup finals. Yet, he's not good enough for us. No be juju be that.

amodu:
Balance the equation, measure the contribution of either Kante or Kovacic in the absence of Jorginho.

We have seen the shame of Kante and Kovacic pairings in few games, the less said, the better. Why not wait for either of the two to be paired with immature RLC and good for nothing Saul before concluding.
That said, football is a team sport, why measure Jorginho's ability individually and not collectively as a team? Do not because you want to underestimate him rubbish the scope of team game.

He has worked with many coaches and none has felt the need to replace him, apparently, he is in a class of his own judging by the reality on ground.
I just hope you will not be shocked if Tuchel do the same.

Very very brilliant point.
Let's pair kante with RLC or Saul and see whether we would not struggle with them..
As i said earlier, once you start hating someone, you just can't stop. Till today, Ibime finds every avenue he can to discredit Drogba and iniesta. Two of the best players of the last decade. That's because he just couldn't stop criticizing, even when they won something, it was always because of other team members. Never their own making.

Ibime:
That guy no sabi ball, just capping nonsense

Gallagher, Mount, Barkley and RLC belong to the same group of AMs or a 3 man midfield at best

Of course, that arrogance rears its head again. Because someone doesn't agree to your point of view, he is a mumu. Because somehow you've managed to convince yourself that you know more than other fans. There's a word for that you know.

amodu:
The point you're trying to make is very clear and there is no iota of favouritism for Jorginho to play down Kante's uniqueness to our team in a of your submissions.

However, those countering you are doing so to downplay Jorginho's effort, as if he doesn't contribute a meaningful quota to our team play.

There is no being without a flaw, Jorginho's flaw shouldn't be used as a measure to rubbish his contributions.

Thanks much. Exactly my point.
People who hate jorginho do exactly that, HATE.

Capaldi:
Both are compactable together just like Dejong and Schone was at Ajax. It depends on the right set up.

Good you can see this, no player is an island. Players require the right supporting cast to excel. All good teams have the right players with the right balance. Some workaholics, some with finesse. Both complementing each other.

nihilistjnr:
What are the odds that Rudiger would win two PKs in the same match, one of them in the 94th minute
If Jorginho only contribution is PK, some of which he misses anyway, he should sit down and rest. If not that Saul is a bust and RLC is s scam, we really shouldn't be having this discussion.
TT recognises the problem and when we saw him experiment with Saul and James partnership, it's not because he's s Bible scholar.

In Tuchel's own words. since it's his word we're going by. Please read it WORD FOR WORD, why jorginho is his first choice midfielder.

airmark:
I understood you.

Scoring PKs can be done by another player in the team and that is not enough to use to rate Jorginho's contribution higher than a fit Kante. Must we pray for PKs before seeing his contributions?
If majority could pick Kante ahead of Jorginho in the team, it shows your rating of their contributions, should be discountenanced.

Both of us know this isn't true. Anybody can score pk, but how many can do it well on a consistent basis. There are few, because of the mentality involved. Did we not lose a super cup, fa cup and community shield because our strikers lost their pks. From morata against arsenal, to Tammy against Liverpool plus mount missing a handful.

Again, I'm not rating one above the other. I'm strongly against doing that. I love them both equally. They both bring something unique to our team. We shouldn't raise one above the other. Kante and jorginho are very essential to us winning this league and our 3rd champions league.

nihilistjnr:
Jorginho doesn't contribute anything other than PK over a fit Kova-Kante partnership.

We saw Reece and Alonso tucking in yesterday to help bolster the wack partnership between. RLC and Jorginho

How many more three points are we going to steal before Kante and Kova are back?

Well last season champions league group stages and our early performances beg to differ.
Jorginho and kovacic have proven to be adept at partnership in the middle. You seem to forget that kante hasn't been reliable recently and we still performed well without him in these matches.
This points to the fact that there is no strong support for jorginho right now in the middle.

donstan18:
How many midfielders in Chelsea can shoot better than Kante?

Unfortunately we are poor in that department. Our central midfielders for the past 8 years have all been poor with their shot, none in the mould of Gerald, scholes, lampard etc. Form Mikel obi to matic, fabregas, kante, and jorginho. All have been very poor at their shooting techniques. But it's no coincidence that jorginho has scored more goals than all of them. And goals do make a difference anyhow you want to analyze it.

airmark:
A fit Kante contributes more bro.

Without Kante our defence getting exposed repeatedly, leading to dropped points. Also, another player like Reecy can convert the PKs you know?

Not taking anything away from Jorginho, but i will pick Kante if to choose who should stay fit between the two.

You clearly didn't understand the point of my post bro.
I'm saying very clearly, we don't need to choose between both of them. They are different players with different characteristics who play different roles to our team. Kante cannot dictate the tempo of our game the way jorginho does, people want to make it seem like kante was also not with us when we were struggling badly under lampard and conte and Sarri, likewise jorginho cannot run up and down the pitch retrieving balls, and chasing second balls the way kante does. Jorginho is also a leader on the pitch, kante is not. These things matter.

They are both world-class players and we need both fit. No player is 100% perfect. They are both essential to us. We don't have to pick and choose.

Exonerate, Every single player on the planet has their weaknesses and their strengths. It's a team sports because your teammates are supposed to complete and complement each other. Each player being a key part of a puzzle to create the perfect outcome.

Kante and jorginho are now 2 of the best midfielders in the game. Kante's weaknesses is his poor passing, poor creativity and shot quality but he more than makes up for it with his energetic runs and ball recoveries. Jorginho is indeed slow, [a common trait for players of his role], busquet, mascherano, rodri, modric, pirlo, Xabi alonso etc.
But they all more than make up for this with other qualities of their game.
Jorginho is our best passer of the ball, he masterfully dictates the tempo of our game, and yes, he does evade the press numerously for us to maintain possession of the ball. Not to talk of the added bonus of his goals. This is where he does supercede kante's contribution to the team. His penalties have bailed us countlessly since he came. It helps anyteam to have an assured penalty taker. It indicates a very strong mental strength which he also shows on the pitch as our vice captain, directing other players on their positional play and direction of passes.

Overall the vast majority of Chelsea fans are glad to have him or at least respect what he does for us.
At least the Chelsea fans on this thread do too. Just as also seen on Twitter and reddit.

Exonerate1:
We have people here questioning why he's our vice captain.

Some of the hate jorginho has received is one that people have had for him for a few years now because of the "favourite son" tag he had when Sarri was here. Just like some people who also hate mount today, do so because of a perceived preferential treatment he has received in the past.

It's hard to stop hating on someone once you start.
And once you hate any player in football, a team sports where everyone is doing one thing or the other, it's very easy to highlight a players weaknesses and downplay his strengths and vice versa.

A very humble player just doing his best for us.

Ibime:
According to your crooked and loaded poll probably partially voted on by rival fans

According to my fairer worded poll, 2/3rd want him out. Many of those voted to keep him in are wicked rival fans like Roland17 who want us to suffer

If you ask any of our fans about Kante, not one will vote against him unless they are being mischievous. That should tell you how useless Jogginghoe is

No be only fairer worded.
Well, as I said before, there is no need for me and you to be going back and forth, nothing will ever make you change your mind over him. You've always been obstinate like that regarding players you personally despise.

But as an objective person, I think constructive criticism is always healthy. Not just toxic criticism like donstan is doing to tuchel now.

When you criticize, it should be for and with a purpose. When the issue you are criticizing begins to develop positively, you acknowledge it, you don't just dig in to try to prove that "you're never wrong".

Every body evolves. Every single player improves day by day. What is so hard in acknowledging that jorginho has improved tremendously from the player you knew 4-5 years ago?? That's obstinacy.

Anyways, there is nothing you or me can do about jorginho. He's shown that he's the 1st choice midfielder for us. He's instrumental to how we play. He's going to play many more games for us. No need for us to continue going in fruitless cycles.

He looks very good to me. He looks bad to you. Our opinions means nothing. Let's know this and know peace.

User09:
One of the things I rate the most in a midfielder is positional awareness and space interpretation.

RLC severely lacks this. Always leaving empty spaces in the middle and doing his usual rubbish casual jog. We probably need to add a new midfielder into our mix

RLC is a big fool. All his mates have gone on to make name for themselves, he's still here dragging space with his juniors.

Him no know say, him don become carry over student for where Dem cho, mount, James etc dey. We have given him enough time to prove himself. He gats to go.

Havertz10:
Tuchel will play lakaka next week and we would draw or lose then self realization will come, havertz performed well, I want him to score and assist but i can manage productive performances while he improves the rest of his game, over the last few games, his ground duels win percentage, touches and dribbles have increased, almost becoming a standard expectation

My friend, you are making noise. We didn't pay $90 million for fluidity. We payed such hefty sums for goals and assists and he has been failing woefully at that. Stop promoting mediocrity.

Exonerate1:
Jorginho representing as usual

Ibime do you see this?? I know nothing will ever make you see good in this player, but I know that images like this will be giving you LLL vibes.

RLC should never play for us again. This guy is useless in midfield. Makes poor decisions constantly, putting his teammates in trouble. I really can't wait to have kovacic and kante back.

Nice one Jorginho, superb mentality. A very calm mind on penalties. Thanks for bailing us out.

Ibime, our fellow beloved fans have made their voices loud and clear. Just look below.
No jorginho slander will be tolerated here again. Insult him again and be banned immediately.

Exonerate1:
Jorginho has a chant what are you on

Bias clouds ibime's judgement on this player. You can talk any other thing sensibly with Ibime and be impressed with his opinion on that issue but when it comes to jorginho issue, don't expect to see a sense of rationale.

Exonerate1:
He thinks Chelsea ends in Nairaland. Very funny guy

Clearly you don't know Ibime, I'm not surprised.
Once he has made up his mind on a player, nothing changes it.

This is someone who till today, calls iniesta. One of the most brilliant midfielder of his generation. A flop and carry along.
You can still see how ibime hates Drogba despite what Drogba has done in football.
Ibime used to call Drogba a player without sense, someone that shoots without technique.

So with him, there is nothing you will say to ever change his mind once he makes it up.

As a matter of fact, let's conduct a poll on this thread.
If you think that jorginho is an essential player to our team. Hit like.
If you think we should dispose of him as soon as possible, hit Share.

Remember, useful and essential, LIKE.
Disposable. SHARE.

Ibime:
Read the last 10 pages of this thread alone and see how many people are referring DM to Chelsea upandan.

Surely you can see that we have an injury crisis on our hands. It makes sense to call for reinforcement.

Kante has become very injury prone and unreliable the last few years. It makes sense to call for support NOT replace.

I know that half of Chelsea fans do not hate jorginho. Just a very very few minority.
An inconsequential minority.

Havertz10:
You can soften the harshness of inequality by providing free education for all irrespective of your social class till college, free healthcare, free or cheap accommodation for the needy, access to cheap food and a basic living income, teach children personal responsibility early

I didn't see this before I even responded to nihilist.
This is my point summarized.

Creating equal access to opportunities helps in reducing the gap of wealth.

Nihilist, please try to make a distinction between socialism and communism.

You keep interchanging both. Socialism stresses on EQUITY. Communism stresses on EQUALITY.

nihilistjnr:
You're arguing for equality but discussing public services.
That's two different things.
No Government can solve inequality, nor should they ever try to, or even care to. The key to developed society is that innovation is suitably rewarded enough to drive economic growth.

However, to keep the have-nots satisfied so that they don't try to eat the haves, any reasonable government will focus on improving the basic standard of living. Here in the UK, it's free education, free healthcare, a benefit system for the poor, free cars for the disabled etc.
The key is to give the disadvantaged access to decent quality of life, not to try and equalise the experience for everyone - that's basically what happened in Russia and China under Stalin and Mao.

As I told raumdeuter, there is a big difference between socialism and communism. In communism, the government owns all means of production, which means no private ownership of lands or companies. It's all run by the government with the aim of equality amongst all. This system has the adverse effects of creating corrupt autocracies.

But socialism exists within a democratic system. Here, the people do have a say on where their money should be spent while still having a capitalist economy.

These public services are a means to creating equal access to opportunities. The social security system, and the free education and health care were legislated to try and create EQUITY not necessarily EQUALITY.
For instance, in Africa, there are some pregnant women who don't have money to have proper health care who end up delivering their babies in very unsanitary conditions in their homes. Leading to high maternal and mortality rate.

Developed nations were able to solve this menace by taxing people and using that money to create a free healthcare system for the pregnant. Now pregnant women can deliver their babies for free, the rich ones can even get much better healthcare.
In communism,this would be outlawed as the focus is equality,not necessarily equity.

Government must do more to bridge the gap between the rich and the poor. It should be an ideal.

raumdeuter:
I dont know where you get your American views from

Look all over the world and countries who embraced communism, what became of them? They all died off
In football its like saying Ronaldo should part with his wages to accommodate Werner or Shawcross. That will end up not only demotivating Ronaldo to push himself, but Werner will also not see the need to improve since Ronaldo can do all the work and get gets some of the proceeds

There is a reason people will brace everything to escape All those communist countries into America because its a place where you give your best and will be rewarded and your success will not be punished

Socialism is very different from communism. But even at that, America has had a good mixture of capitalist economy and democratic socialism.

It's not individuals that build roads or , the government does these using payments made from the citizens. Also schools and hospitals.
That's socialism.

And please let me make my distinction clear. I'm focused on government vs the individual. As individuals, it's an undeniable fact that we have traits of greed but when we come together to govern ourselves {the government},we must strive to make the society equitable.

Left to the republicans, the government isn't supposed to do these things but to leave it only for private individuals to do this and the people pay the said individual. That government should have as little role as possible. It's an ideal borne of greed and individualism.

raumdeuter:
You are very right. And that is my own belief. I have thought about it and researched it properly too

Life is not going to be fair to all and its the way it is, you have to help yourself. Govt cannot legislate equality, it doesn't work, See all the countries that have tried it.

Its basically working against natural human and animal instincts. A lion does not go hunting because he wants to feed the Leopards family
The main reason you work hard is because you want a better life for yourself and your family. If they told you that work hard so that Uche doesn't suffer, will you continue to do the same level of hard work?
Now if they say after your hardwork, govt will take more and more of it because Uche, Alli and Akin are suffering, I doubt you will maintain the motivation to work as hard
You have the option to work hard or to laze around, what motivates you to choose one of the 2 options?

Life is not black or white like that.
I don't think that only greed defines us all. Life should be balanced.

We all have a degree of greed and selfishness in us but we also have a healthy degree of empathy and care for people around us. Surely, they must have been some periods in your life you did good for someone for the sake of being good. Or you were a bit concerned when a child around you started crying.

It is my firm belief that anybody getting into GOVERNMENT must strive to make the society more equitable. You live in a country that was formed by different people from all over the world coming together to form a society and govern themselves. That's the best of ideals. That's why I'm disgusted by Republicans and their ideals.

It's the most blatant of individualism and hypocrisy.
You see people whose parents went there with nothing and met a better society and became something, blocking others from doing the same. It makes no sense.
I mean, in America, taxpayers dollars are used to build schools and roads and hospitals and pensions etc. All these, so that every child can go to school for free and every old person will have free money to take care of themselves and every individual can have better health care.
All these are paid from everyone's taxes and payments to the government's. Therefore creating a better and healthy society.

And then when people have enjoyed the benefits of this society to become even better in life, they turn around and say, NO. TEA. Taxed Enough Already.
We don't want to pay our fair share of taxes. It's abominable. It's a shame, it's hypocritical.

I think it's bad that you've embraced our greedy nature. Greed is bad. It's in all of us, but nonetheless bad. We must uphold the virtues of love and care and build our lives and ideals upon it.

raumdeuter:
Life is selfish generally, before you send 5k to anyone you would have spent a significant part on yourself. Moreover you are doing it out of your goodwill, you are not required to

Life is cruel generally, Some may be fortunate to see an opportunity some may not be bold enough

How many times have you looked back to the most brilliant boy in your primary school, secondary school or University who is still a lecturer in a state Polytechnic and Yaya Bello, Theodore Orji Aregbesola etc are using their salary to do dorime everyday

Recently the story of a boy first class Maths was carried on NL before Jarus and friends gave him a schorlarship abroad, this guy was doing hoe and cutlass farming in Ebonyi village

Haa! Therein lies the republican in you.
Of course, you are correct in stating a well known fact. But it's not okay to just be comfortable with the fact that life is harsh and unequal. We have to strive as Much as we can to remedy the situation and make it as equitable as can be.

Which is why you have liberal governments taxing the ultra wealthy and channeling that money to build schools, better access to health care and local infrastructure accessible to the general public.
Also making policies geared to levelling the playing field for all.
And all these helps in creating equal opportunities for all. But you have conservative economist having you believe that "pulling yourself by the bootstrap" will inevitably lead to a conformable life. It's not okay to just accept the reality of the harshness of life, That has proven not true .
we must strive to make society equal.