₦airaland Forum

The bible does not stand. he who believes the word of the bible is ruled by the words of men. Men from a time where it was acceptable to enslave men, to commit genocide and to diminish women.

It is the work of fiction

It seems like a challenge.

I have a friend who is a freelance journalist and does work with the BBC. Let me put together a proposal for a documentary on Nigeria, Nigeria: The search for stupidity.

Summary. A western raised and educated Nigerian seeks to challenge the supposed abilities of the fabled 'Juju'. He explores villages across states speaking to victims of and practitioners of juju. He asks the right questions and lays down the ultimate challenge. £100, 000 to any one who offers sscientificproof of the powers of Juju.

can people please recommend states and Villages where it is prevalent?

LOL,

Good deflection, as much as I admire debating, it serves no purpose if you fail to answer anything.

I have posted numerous questions on this topic and whilst you comment, you give no answers. In some ways I admire the deluded here as they at least answer questions even at the risk of appearing stupid. You are the worst kind of religious proponent. Debate provokes change, if you believe in God, debating it properly.

Unlike you, that is not that, the door is firmly open to you.

I have a degree in Psychology(specialist parapsychology) a degree in Law and I work in Finance.

I will be going back to Nigeria to enter politics, I hope I can count on your vote or support.

You and I can agree to disagree, though you still fail to attempt to answer any questions I pose to you.

ceasyc:
now i know u must be high on sum tin or u dont no how to read. wot part of these r tins i experienced or saw dont u understand = not hearsay.
how d heck do i give evidence online/show u wot happened n saw in d past or wot bloody evidence do u need from me? me don write my own oh = its not about believing = dey all exists

i think dis thread shud be left 4 u n tensor jare 2 cont cos i gats beta tins to do than to b arguing or reading all dem jargon/gibberish. ENJOY!

Religious people split into three main groups when faced with science and truth. I shall label them the "know-nothings", the "know-alls", and the "no-contests".

Evident by your answers you are in the category know nothings.

ceasyc:
now i know u must be high on sum tin or u dont no how to read. wot part of these r tins i experienced or saw dont u understand = not hearsay.
how d heck do i give evidence online/show u wot happened n saw in d past or wot bloody evidence do u need from me? me don write my own oh = its not about believing = dey all exists

i think dis thread shud be left 4 u n tensor jare 2 cont cos i gats beta tins to do than to b arguing or reading all dem jargon/gibberish. ENJOY!

and the lies the problem, of all those who have experience juju etc not one can offer a shred of testable, quantifiable, verifiable data.

I guess if you say its so, it so.

Good argument!

tensor777:
You don't know what you're talking about is all I have to say to that. Even studying nature itself would open our eyes to the complete implausibility of the atheists claims. The point is that science itself points unequivocally to the existence and nature of God.

Science does not point to the existence and nature of God. Science offers us an explanation of how complexity arose out of simplicity. The hypothesis of God offers no worthwhile explanation for anything, for it simply postulates what we are trying to explain.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

Tensor, please explain, Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365 not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers were given. Satan - 10.

Tensor, you come across as smart and educated I think somewhere in you is an atheist waiting to come out.

Another FACT I present, is that during many ages there were witches. The 'Bible' said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry. Truly sad.

and to those who think I am rude I am not. I am patient with stupidity, but not with those who are proud of it,

Religion teaches the dangerous nonsense that death is not the end

ceasyc:
wot r u going on about? your experiences n mine r totally different - no1 i know was beaten b4 confession. i know wot i know n u no wot u no so dont come here acting like u no it all. abegee

so u believe in witchcraft/satanic powers? aha! but not d others. so u mean to tell me that all those things dey act in 9ja movies re juju, etc r all hearsay or fiction or just acting? u gats 2 b kidding me. i said i have witnessed these things = all of d ones i mentioned so dont tell me wot u think i no or wot u think i dont know

y do both of u have 2 reply each post sef or almost all d posts? una no get work or r u guys dat jobless or idle? = VERY ANNOYING

Thats the whole point, I dont know it all, what I do know I have backed by evidence. it is simply not good enough to say, "I know it is real so I believe"

Tensor,

Overwhelming evidence?

Name one please?

To all those like Ranoscy, who mindlessly and aimlessly believe, it really comes down to parsimony, economy of explanation. It is possible that your car engine is driven by juju magic, but if it looks like a petrol engine, smells like a petrol engine and performs exactly as well as a petrol engine, the sensible working hypothesis is that it is a petrol engine.

Telepathy and possession by the spirits of the dead are not ruled out by me as a matter of principle. There is certainly nothing impossible about bullets bouncing off men, men holding the clouds in the skies hostage. One day it may be happen. But on grounds of probability it should be kept as an explanation of last resort. It is unparsimonious, demanding more than routinely weak evidence before we should believe it. I

f you hear hooves clip-clopping down a London street, it could be a zebra or even a unicorn, but, before we assume that it's anything other than a horse, we should demand a certain minimal standard of evidence.

That is all i ask of you, a certain minimal standard of evidence

In childhood our credulity serves us well. It helps us to pack, with extraordinary rapidity, our skulls full of the wisdom of our parents and our ancestors. But if we don't grow out of it in the fullness of time, our, nature makes us a sitting target for astrologers, mediums, gurus, evangelists, native doctors etc. We need to replace the automatic credulity of childhood with the constructive skepticism of adult science and this is what I am afraid you have yet to do.

if the supernaturalists really had the powers they claim, they'd win the lottery every week. I also prefer to point out that they could also win a Nobel Prize for discovering fundamental physical forces hitherto unknown to science. Either way, why are they wasting their talents doing party tricks?

perhaps if you answered the questions asked rather than saying, "it just is" i would have more respect for you opinions.

How can you be cool with a belief if you do not have all the necessary information to make an informed decisions

Ranoscky:
My broda, Even DonOvero also called me an ignorant all for the sake that i made my own opinion that juju do exist, but i don't let all that get into my head b'cos insult can NEVER take anything away from me. I'll just allow whoever insults me to keep advertisin his so called western mentality that would not even affect my PC, not to talk of affectin me.

You can see the comment of a so called western mentality creature below:

Why? b'cos i said these:

Well, revel in your ignorance, I am sure it will bring you much good.

100%:
But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city ,
A man named Simon lived in that city. He amazed the people of Samaria with his ,
in the city, using magic arts, and astonishing the nation of Samaria, , ACTS 8:9

IF U BELIEVE JUJU DOES NOT EXIST YOU ARE AN IGNORAMUS,

This is your example?!! YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU BELIEVE.

I wouldnt mind educating you but like my Father said, never argue with a dunk or a fool

geogentle:
@ invisible,
No juju abi? Mess with core ijebu or ebira people and you will know.

Tell me how to mess with them and let us see what power they have?

Why dont they use their 'juju' to make NEPA keep light on, build schools motorways and hospital. If your arguement is that JUJU can only be used to create evil, why dont they use it to bring down other nations thus elevating Nigeria.

Get an education and learn. Your stupidity knows no bounds.

If there is a God, I would like him to answer why he continues to allow children to die and continues to allow backward Africans to accuse them of all manners of witch craft?

If there is a God, and he is a loving God, why he lets his people suffer, why he enjoys testing us, if he is a god surely there are better things to do with his time than playing with our lives.

People do good and evil. If people choose to do good because they believe that a god tells them to, then you are lost. I do good because it is the right thing to do and not because I am told or will be rewarded in heaven.

If god is all powerful and all knowing, then he must have known before he created the world that the so called Satan would turn against him, and if he is all powerful he could have stopped him and if he chose not to stop him and chose to create Satan are these the actions of a loving God?

ask the right questions people, enjoy life for it is the only one we get.

ceasyc:
@poster
yes there's juju, witchcraft, rainmakers abi na rain holders , blood money, rituals, poisoning of all kinds, etc which ppl use on other ppl to harm or kill
but God's power is above all

i've seen lots of ppl confess dat dey kill n harm with dem tins. if u havent experienced it or c ppl confess then pray u never do = VERY SCARY
i may give a few examples/stories l8r.

I have seen a small boy confess to practising witch craft and after the amount of pressure and beatings he was given, who would blame him.

This makes me sick, and right now I offer a challenge, anyone, ANYONE who thinks juju exist, use it against me and lets see if it works.

Ranoscky:
And i think i'll remain ignorant so long as the question remains: If juju exist or not?. . .And i say yes to it !!!

Tell you what, no need for insult ok? Just keep your western mentality to yourself and let me keep my uncivilised ignrance to myself ok? Just like i said before, i can only laugh at those that are stil tryin to convince you with more logic on juju !!!

*Una go dey claim western mentality but na so so course course una sabi. I no blame una sha, wen oyibo don whitewash una brain finish.*

As long as people like you continue to remain ignorant, Nigeria WILL never prosper. That is a fact. Why would people invest in a country that is so backward in its thinking? So rigid and inflexible in their rationale? why blame misfortune on yourself when there is a juju man that can conveniently take the blame.

Ridiculous.

Common sense says to me that if we want to postulate a deity capable of engineering all the organized complexity in the world, either instantaneously or by guiding evolution, that deity must have been vastly complex in the first place. The creationist, whether a naive Bible-thumper or an educated bishop, simply postulates an already existing being of prodigious intelligence and complexity. If we are going to allow ourselves the luxury of postulating organized complexity without offering an explanation, we might as well make a job of it and simply postulate the existence of life as we know it!

Tensor,

serious questions why do you find it so easy to believe in God?

opribo:
HmmmmmHmmmmmm he he ho, what people dont know they should not open their wide mouth and talk nonsense. If you dont know what juju is all about why not shout your mouth and stop talking nonsense. Let those who know whats up talk. Besides I dont see any wise man talking in this thread so i rest my case.

This one made me laugh. Talking nonsense?

Which one is more nonsense? My voice of reason, asking to be presented with evidence, offering scientific reason why some events are not due to juju, or, that men can move clouds with their hands, can float to people room and 'press' their chest, that they can control the weather, that by washing you nails can come out of your body, that bullets can bounce of your body, that slaughtering animals wards of evil spirits, that accusing children of witch craft is what causes bad luck, by praying to an invisible force he will guide you, that both Osama bin Laden and George Bush heard their respective Gods and he commanded them to wage war?

I ask you again, which is more nonsense?

invisible!:
Another one is the fallacy that you could shoot someone with a gun or cut someone with a machete and he will not die. I have one sentence for you, well the gun was not shot by me! If i shoot you, you will be very very very dead!
419 started in the olden days, those days native doctors dey chop people mugu, those days they chop your sheep and goats for one simple solution which may never work and you come back with yam and palm oil to appease the gods. Pretty village girls are accused of being witches and mammy water so the family can bring the young girl to the native doctor to live untill the spirits leave the babe. Within this time the girl is kept inside probably drugged and the witch doctor used his male "koboko" to flog the girls privates till weeks while you think she is working on the girl. If the girl gets pregnant, she will remain there and will not go back.

This is my point, and I am glad there are people in Nigeria who are questioning.

All this people who say they have seen people get shot yet the bullets bounce of them like rubber are either stupid or delusional.

what is more believable, that bullets bounced of human flesh or that the gun was faulty, bullets were dummy, the shooters aim was off, the tale was exaggerate.

all things being equal, the simplest explanation, no matter how improbable, is the right one. Find the simplest explanation guys, not the most complicated and exaggerated one.

@ Ranoscy

I have been to Nigeria and its full of people like you who rather than search for the truth continue to remain ignorant. You have turned being unengaged to a zen like state.

Let me give you two examples of so called Juju

Sleep paralysis( there are still people in Nigeria who believe this is juju when scientific research has disproved this.

After bouts of sleep paralysis, parents elders everone was saying it is juju and they are trying to kill me. Now imagine the affect this would have on me, a 11 year old. It was scary, now what do you think would be my subconscious way of dealing with this, via dream or rather nightmare. one nightmare I had was of a woman whose face was blurred saying "you no go die? You no go die"? Obv i told this to my parents who were now further convinced that it was juju, took me to an idiot dressed in feather who promptly sacrificed a chicken, what the chicken did I do not know but the 'featherman' obv thought differently. After this killing I was assured that I was now saved. I had no more dreams and hey presto I was cursed now I was saved, and the stories go round and round.

Never mind the notion that as I was told I was saved was prob cathartic and it gave me peace of mind, see the placebo effect.

Almost ten years later, the tale from my parents to friends is now, I was under nightly attack by witchcraft as I came from London. they were jealous so every night a witch would fly to my room, sit on my chest and try to kill whilst saying "you no go die" The native doctor then confronted her and said he made her spirit enter chicken which he slaughtered and the witch was vanquished. LOL

Hi all,

I cannot comment on every individual comment aimed on me but I will try one by one as I have read some truly ridiculous things on this forum.

I will start with Lenny9000.

I do not have to convince myself. I spent 2 years in Nigeria being force-fed the theory of Juju and as a child I believed it. However, once you grow up and get an education and start to reason things out, you quickly see it is nothing but superstition, passed down from generations and with each passing down getting bigger and bolder in its tales. Just because certain things cannot be explained by science you simply must not say "It cannot be explained thus it is juju, evil, a miracle(insert whatever you believe in here)" this is plain wrong, just wrong. Poor reasoning and rationale.

You say you live in the west and do not accept everything the western scientist tells you, yet, who do you think creates, produces and directs the show? You think watching the discovery is evidence of you ability to reason. This is incredulous.

My main thrust of my argument against the belief of Juju are the very ritual killings you write of-this is a direct cause of the lies perpetrated by such beliefs. Along with the uneducated, uninformed and unengaged elders, villagers thinking it serves a purpose because of this belief. The poor children on Nigeria, hell, the whole of West Africa are the recipient of the unprovoked, unwarranted and unecessary accusations from these people are the reason these children are suffering.

You say you are a christian, can you explain the points are raised in my earlier post? I see you gloss over this with the blanket, "I am a christian, I believe in God etc" God gave you a mind right? use your mind to question this.

The Occult is a tradition and practised everywhere. its existence I have never denied, it is the so -called mystical properties that I deny. Do you have proof that the free mason sacrifice children and even if they do, do you have proof that this killing confers its host mystical powers?

There is a difference between believing juju exist and believing that it works.

Before you argue points with me, please do the research, its free and it is out there if you search. Do not present points that my 13 year old niece can re-butt. as young as she is, she has already achieved more than you can by simply asking "how is this so?"

As I have said before it is always easier to believe the lie.

Next

kenis:
Mr Philosopher go to Enugu and they will show you a Rain Makers. They will stand right in front of you and make rain that will beat you and your phylosophycal pant.
Engugu is nt very far. Remember to go with your Prof. Big head. They will equaly comand it to stop so, u don't have to say it was luck.

Provide evidence and I will acknowledge this.

Do you know what the western world will pay for a man that can control the weather The Brits would pay for him not to make it rain, woo hoo year round sun!

factbox:
Well after all said and seen i will personally stand a grand dat juju does exist buuuut its only effective on d believers of it ,as a young child i witnessed several years of d so called AGEMO a particular festival in i-ode where its usually practised d rules says no female be it young or old,bay, infant,toddler as long as d person is a female cant see it, but i personally saw dis rubbish and hid d secret from my mum due to d fact dat many have seen it and have died mysteriously after. but my stand is dat its solely depend on individual belief because ite sheer devilish magic. there re some mysteries behind human existence which d scientist demswlves cant explain,.ALSO WHO SAYS WHITE PPL DONT BELIEVE IN JUJU? i can say it wif my mouth wide open dat they practice more dan d blacks its just too prominent here in africa because of the level of education of ppl involved and d ppl practising it back here.pls if u wanna confirm dis go to www.datingtips.com,THERE U WILL SEE A AN ASTROLOGER WIF FREE CONSULTATION ON U. ITS USUALLY LOCATED AT D TOP RIGHT OF DIS SITE AFTER IT MUST HAVE OPENED THEN FILL IN ANY FORM RE ASKED TO FILL DEN U WILL B TOLD HOW AND WHERE U HAV BEEN LIVING your LIFE BY WHITE ASTROLOGER WHO USES CRYSTAL BALL TO CHECK O OUT. u may think dis is mere scientific but different approac hes re used to perform juju be it leaves ,herbs, or shrubbs even crystal ball,

Now I know you are delusional, if you want me to astound you with what I know of you, just say yes. I will ask you 5 questions, not personal? and then Iwill PM my reading. Nothing Juju just simple reasoning and observations.