₦airaland Forum

Oh and if you want one of the MANY reasons I am an atheist, here is one from 'your' sacred bible Numbers 31:13–47 as an example, in which Moses orders the slaughter of thousands of boys and women, and sanctions the rape of thousands of girls, at God's behest.

This is your Bible, a book of lies, wickedness, and blasphemy.

kenis:
For those of you who are in the Uk & US who are saying civilised! Civilised or backward! backward! I'm doubt more than Thomos myself. If juju doesnt exist,magic does. There is supernatural powers. Juju doesnt not work on everybody or in every occation but it does work. I wil not make reference frm the Bible becoz some phylosopher r hovering around here.even if u dont believe in the bible. Those ppl that wrote it yrs ago could nt have just imagined n fabricated everything. Let me talk of the ones i heard n d one i have personaly seen. It is not common in the city bcoz most peaple who practice Juju/magic are uncivilized pple so, dont expect to be seeing/encountrn such all over Us/uk. Let me start frm the ones i heard. There r two major road contractors right opposite our house in Enugu. FERMA & Intercontractor. There was this palm tree that had two equal branches.i saw the picture.it was believed to be a magic tree. A white man that ignored the villagers who wornd about the tree taking a head died after felling the tree with a tranctor. They also made an attempt to level a hill which d villager also worned but they could nt. Many of the white men left their tranctors and ran away.the evidience is still there. I saw it but i still hav some doubt. May class mate(Onyebuchi,i watched him die) died in the football pitch bcoz they went to distroy a village Shrine(nt my village) with a Pastor(man of God as they call him). All of them died one-by-one except the Pastor. I have seen magicians swallow pieces of bottles,nails,many atime fill a basket with water. I saw them. Dont knw whether it's the kind of juju we r talking abt. What about the Bakasi boys. They used it and it worked for them. I learnd that Indian was banned frm playing football bcoz they were using it in the pitch(not sure.i'm nt a fball fan). What of the Fire Eaters? Go to Egypt n you will see magics as well. All those things r spiritual powers. It's every where. It is not practised by civilised peaple thats y u cant see it around u. Juju cant just do evry thing that's what some peaple who practise it fail to understand. Power pass power. There is another power that put limitations to juju. That power must be suprime. What i dont belief is using juju to kill me. Nah! My family n I would have been dead by now if it worked 4 every body. I only lost my elder brother which i believed to be poison which can kill anybody.

I am very sorry about your elder brother, but reason has built the modern world. It is a precious but also a fragile thing, which can be corroded by apparently harmless irrationality. We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.

tensor777:
Well atheists are uniquely interesting as they profess to believe in precisely nothing. Not primitive juju, not Islam, Buddhism or any other religion.
The snag with that is that since man was created to believe in the supernatural and infinity, atheists find themselves in a moral and spiritual vacuum.
The issue then is that life for them becomes like a blind man groping in the dark- for some kind of inner meaning.

Not true, to me the world and the universe is an extremely beautiful place, and the more we understand about it the more beautiful does it appear. It is an immensely exciting experience to be born in the world, born in the universe, and look around you and realise that before you die you have the opportunity of understanding an immense amount about that world and about that universe and about life and about why we're here. We have the opportunity of understanding far, far more than any of our predecessors ever. That is such an exciting possibility, it would be such a shame to blow it and end your life not having understood what there is to understand.

I was reminded of a quotation by the famous American physicist Steven Weinberg, Nobel Prize-winning theoretical physicist. Weinberg said: "Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it, you'd have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion. Pure madness

If you have a faith, it is statistically overwhelmingly likely that it is the same faith as your parents and grandparents had. No doubt soaring cathedrals, stirring music, moving stories and parables, help a bit. But by far the most important variable determining your religion is the accident of birth. The convictions that you so passionately believe would have been a completely different, and largely contradictory, set of convictions, if only you had happened to be born in a different place. Epidemiology, not evidence.

tensor777:
You are actually missing the point of Overos attacks on juju. The truth is that juju is a very soft target in that it is primitive and those that adhere to it tend to be uneducated and ignorant.
No the real issue here is his atheism not this backward juju stuff.

An atheist is just somebody who feels about Yahweh the way any decent Christian feels about Thor or Baal or the golden calf. As has been said before, we are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.

@mrrock,

it does, because no one who was truly educated would believe that!

Also just because science so far has failed to explain something, to say it follows that the facile, pathetic explanations which religion has produced somehow by default must win the argument is really quite ridiculous.

tensor777:
You better stop this unhealthy obsession with psychology and learn the real thing. Its ludicrous really how these misguided atheists say they don't believe in God but are then obsessed with the paranormal and the occult in various guises.

A thorough reading and understanding of the Bible is the surest path to atheism

Top9jajamz:
Out of the millions of juju cases,you choose the pressing in sleep one,
My bros there's a scientific explanation to that so count that one out
Lets talk about cases where someone wants to travel out,gets all his documents ready,decides to celebrate with friends,goes clubbing,shares his property amongst friends then all of a sudden they strike.The guy comes down with a strange ailment,the doctors conduct all the known medical test in the profession but couldn't find anything medically wrong with him but physically the guy is paralysed,within 2 weeks the guy emaciates to a stage where you see his bones through his skin,after 2wks,3days the guy dies.
how do you explain that?

Let medical doctors and those practising in the health field come out here and say juju does not exist then I'll rest my case.
for they are the ones who witness incidents like this first hand.

Top9, lack of rational explanation does not mean there is not one. You simply don't reason well i don't know what caused that so therefore it is JUJU'

this is not sound thinking. You perpetuate this nonsense without thinking of the ramification, this line of thinking is a short step away from elders blaming the children of witchcraft due to an unforeseen illness or death in the family, compound or village. Disgusting

SCYLLA:
Don overo can you give me links to more of your lectures I am particularly obsessed about psychology  

It was over 6 years ago but if you need books etc, let me check my library and refer some to you.

Nigeria, re-phrase, Africa will not climb out of the jungle until deep seated beliefs like this are quashed. Education is key. Read my post on Nigerian politics. I have a 10 year plan to run for office.

I am tired of the uneducated.

tensor777:
That is not juju. That is a satanic attack. It does not even mean that you are being attacked with juju.

Tensor, you are an idiot. How can you call this a satanic attack. This backward thinking makes my blood boil. Do some research first before you spout rubbish.

This is what I mean, simple things like sleep paralysis which was explained to me by my parents and elders as a witch who was suffocating me lived with me till I was educated about it.

Now imagine I lived in the village in Nigeria and did not get an education and had children and passed on my belief on the matter and there you go, superstition lives on.

100%:
Have you ever been pressed to suffocation while sleeping?,

My friend I did my dissertation on this as I suffered from this, google search sleep paralysis

My objection to supernatural beliefs is precisely that they miserably fail to do justice to the sublime grandeur of the real world. They represent a narrowing-down from reality, an impoverishment of what the real world has to offer.

tensor777:
Well the universe itself for one.I suspected as much. The truth is we are all to a greateror lesser extent creatures of our environment which shapes our world view.

No doubt you have been subjected to a barrage of concerted, coercive atheistic propaganda from the newspapers, the BBC and other ubiquitous media.

Nevertheless, it is up you to take cognisance of this fact and come to the knowledge of the Truth.

The universe is not evidence of infinity, it had a start and it Will have an end. That is a scientific fact. as far as growing up in London and being subjected to the barrage of etc, it could be said of all. But I base my reason on verifiable fact.

Ericology:
I don't want to argue for or against this topic cuz i hate fighting over what i can hardly understand, i ve had many reasons to believe and disbelieve in juju or even God atimes but certain things that happened b4 my eyes have made me keep quiet whenever such issues arise,
For those who dont believe i have 3 questions, during Buhari regimes when i was abt 10yrs,,,,armed robbers were shot in their village squares and i witnessed one who was shot several times without the bullets penetrating until the commander rushed into the nearby farm, plucked a fresh palm frond,, tied on the tip of the gun barrel, muttered some rubbish hit the barrel on the ground and released a shot which tore thru the robbers heart and killed him,,,, so,,
, what really happened? why didnt the other bullets penetrate?, dont tell me they were rubber bullets cuz we little kids picked them after and played with them,
2, One man back in the village had a plantation of fruits near our elementary school and we always finished the fruits b4 he cld get them, then we suddenly noticed that every pupil who went in there to steal came out with rashes on his body including me lol  but it never happened to any member of his family, this made us to stay clear .lol--
      3, Our traditional ruler died yrs back during the peak of raining reason and to bury him,,, they gathered the so called rain makers and rain stoppers, lol to our greatest surprise there were heavy rains everywhere including our town but the sun was shining only on his few thousand sq miles  village, lol, all these are not heresay, i witnessed them so pls guys,,, enlighten me, i am not saying they were juju works but explain pls, thanks

I will cover you first question and continue if you want me to.

1) Absent full facts, you were 10 years old! Human memory is fallible and has been known to degrade over time( Google search one of my lectures, Tim Valentine and cognitive psychology) You are also quite capable of filling in any blanks in your memory with tales that were told to you from other children, parents elders etc over time.

I also do not put much faith into the harp shooting ability and skills of the village commanders nor the reliability of their weapons. Evident by tying palm fond to the barrel and hitting the gun on the ground probably to correct its firing mechanism and he probably said "I beg God, Please make this nonsense useless weapon work oh!!! I no won die for stupid amm(sic) robbers oh"

Evidence for infinity? Where would that be?

I have no problem with people who worship God, Satan etc or those who believe in religion and JUJU, but I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. Religion is about turning untested belief into unshakable truth through the power of institutions and the passage of time.

I relish debates and by all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.


I grew up in London after 2 years in Nigeria.

tensor777:
Overo, I suspect that it is not belief in primitive juju that is your main issue but lack of belief in God.

There is something infantile in the presumption that somebody else has a responsibility to give your life meaning and point… The truly adult view, by contrast, is that our life is as meaningful, as full and as wonderful as we choose to make it.

only in the minds of the ignorants who think it does.

If someone can show me real quantifiable and verifiable proof of Juju, I shall continue to mock those who believe in it.

Sorry, not superman, We have found, Neo, the one! "are you saying I can dodge bullets?" "I am saying, when the time comes, you won't have to"

Meddler:
Amen brother!. Jazz ko, hip hop ni. Nigerians can be so irrational and every body will be swearing to u up and down that juju/jazz is very real.
I was reading one of the newspaper, I think it's Punch, and they were reporting about how armed robbers attacked a pastor in the church. According to their "eye witness" account, the armed robbers fired numerous shots and none hit the pastor. When that failed they went after the pastor with a machete but none of the robbers were able to cut the pastor with their knife.

At this point I had to check and make sure i was reading an actual newspaper and not some fictional article lololol.

HAHAHA, this pastor should interest armies the world over. He is superman. The pastor should next time use his powers to stop the robbers from entering the church. would save on time. again typical of Nigerians they cant even rob well now!!

And dont even get me started on the bibile, much of which is just plain weird, as you would expect of a chaotically cobbled-together anthology of disjointed documents, composed, revised, translated, distorted and 'improved' by hundreds of anonymous authors, editors and copyists, unknown to us and mostly unknown to each other, spanning nine centuries.

and to be fair, much of the Bible is not systematically evil but just plain weird, as you would expect of a chaotically cobbled-together anthology of disjointed documents, composed, revised, translated, distorted and improved by hundreds of anonymous authors, editors and copyists, unknown to us and mostly unknown to each other, spanning nine centuries.

And since Dinosaurs were on this earth long before man, whose image were they created?

bermuda1:
One of the main reasons why we Africans have remained in darkness is that people are willing to believe anything they are told without bothering to check if its possible. we are to scared to check anything out just in case something may happen

I bet you if this jazz truly existed ,"Oyibo" would have found a way to market it. It is this same jazz that "oyibo" used left leg to scatter in Benin. Some people will tell you that Jazz does not affect oyibo. How silly.

Sometimes I wonder, if everybody is afraid of his neighbour jazzing him, who is actually doing the jazz? like people have stated here all the information is second-hand and all the people turning to snake and goat is usually young women.

If someone can take me to a proper jazzman that can prove that jazz works, I will hammer big time. If they say jazz makes money, what is the use of us exporting oil in Naija? if you sentence someone to death for armed robbery, instead of firing squad let us carry him to jazzman so that they can use his head to make money for the state abi? that one is even good source of foreign exchange as Nigeria will be helping other countries to execute people

like posters earlier, their is evil and there are evil people. You can mix poisons and concoctions for someone to eat/drink/rub and the person will come to harm. but if you say that if you bring human head and dollars will start reigning, that is mumbo jumbo

LOL exactly, If JUJU existed it is typical for Africans to mismanage it. The 'Oyibo' would have marketed it and sold it back to us for twice the price!

Hang on, Maybe Bill Gates did that and look at him now, if that was an African, instead of aiming big he uses it to make his enemy end up in a tree LOL

sweetbeans:
Christainity is not a religion. , its a way of life.no man wrote the bible, its an inspiration from God.may God give us all the insight to understand and accept his word. and replace our hearts of stone with hearts of flesh.The answers that the bible has given me is enough and satisfactory.i just pray God gives u the satisfaction he has given me.i was once like y'all!!

You pray to God to gime me satisifaction is this the same God of the Old Testament who is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Is this the God you mean?

sweetbeans:
MANY OF THE PEOPLE SAYING THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN JUJU ARE ONLY TRYING TO SPRING UP ARGUMENTS AND TALK TALK TALK, GOD SYMBOLIZES GOOD, SATAN SYMBOLIZES EVIL SO WHAT ARE WE STILL ARGUING ABOUT. HAVE U READ ABOUT ELIJAH AND THE PROPHETS OF BAAL?, HAVE U READ ABOUT THE GOLDEN CALF?WHY THEN DO WE PRAY TO GOD FOR PROTECTION?WHY DO WE PRAY AGAINST PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS? WHY TO WE THREAD AGAINST SNAKES AND SCORPIONS? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, DO NOT SPRING UP UNNECESSARY ARGUMENTS? IT IS BETTER FOR US TO FOCUS ON MAKING OUR BRETHREN HAPPY, THAT TO BE DOUBTING WHETHER OR NOT THE DEVIL HAS POWER.GO TO IJEBU ODE AND SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE, COME TO THE REDEMPTION CAMP AND SEE PEOPLE CONFESSING THEIR SINS, I TRULY PRAY FOR YOU, THAT YOU NEVER EXPERIENCE THE POWER OF THE DEVIL.

One of the things that is wrong with religion is that it teaches us to be satisfied with answers which are not really answers at all.

Who are you praying to? This book you read, who wrote it. all it is is man's interpretation of stories he was told many years ago.

Laughable, don't pray for me. I understand your need to have a belief in something otherwise it would make your life empty.

Yeo found on tree so Juju obviously put him there. is that the best excuse he could come up with? LOL

Try that excuse in any civilised world and see where it would get you?

and here we go. on one end of the spectrum Juju and on the other end, someone is covering himself with the blood of Christ! LOL

Your religion has caused more pain, misfortune, bloodshed than all the so called juju in the world ever done put together!!

LOL, Juju does not exist.

Why don't you share first hand experiences with us. No juju can hurt me because it does not exist. You think bury a lizard in the ground or rubbing a goat in honey is going to have some effect on anything?

Africans and their Voodoo! I guess it is easier to believe the lie!

Being poisoned is certainly a possibility. But 'JuJu' in the sense used here is a complete falsehood. To believe in good and evil does not conclude that one must believe in God and Devil.

To the poster who says how can I explain the case of a patient who having undergone every test, coming back negative but still being ill is evidence of juju is deluded.

So absent evidenciary proof juju is the explanation? This is one of the many reason Nigeria is so backward, this kind of thinking. The same stupid notion in Nigeria that calls children witches or practitioners of witch craft. Nigerians blames those in charge for the state of affairs, but they should look at themselves.