₦airaland Forum

Came4amod:
Confessing to the wrong person will be the issue .. confessing to a man of God will automatically make you saved if you repent ..

Why do you people talk and teach the wrong things? Even Eli prayed for Hannah saying "may The Lord hear you".

QuinQ:
Our guy doesn't even read. See very shortened form of what Einstein said below. Maybe you can read that.

If truly you can read you would see that Einstein does not say "those who believe in freewill are wrong".

He just says he, Einstein does not believe in it. Simple English.

And the argument is not about what Einstein says or anybody says, but about you supplying a valid counter to the argument I have raised above before you brought Einstein, which you failed to counter as you dodged it to start saying Einstein said.

QuinQ:
Don't mark yourself a liar. You never answered the guy about AI or you'd simply state your answer here.

If I did not answer the guy's questions, you would have shown where he said I did not answer his question when he responded to my answer.

So, it is you who lying against me.

QuinQ:
What EXACTLY is this argument you keep saying you raised that cannot be answered. State it again because all I see from you is ridiculousity.

Our argument is at this point
https://www.nairaland.com/8569885/christianity-free-modern-technology-devices/2#137639045

Where you now replied to my off point remark saying it "Has nothing to do with atheist" and you never"came back" to counter my answer saying "Look at the definitions, does it define free as obtain your goal arising from your act?
No"

QuinQ:
You keep saying "off-point". Why not say what exactly is off point and why.
The Bible says in several places that God knows everything and even knows your thoughts before you think them. Or don't you believe in the Bible?

How can you believe in God and not believe he knows everything that will ever happen, meaning you don't believe in God - Atheit!

Do you not know that invalid and unlawful arguments are not allowed?

Or do you not know that themeaning of Off means the invalid argument of leaving and running away from the argument in issue to start raising another arguement on another issue?

It is also the fallacy known as
Red Herring
The red herring fallacy is an intentional tactic where an irrelevant topic is introduced to deliberately distract the audience's attention from the original, important issue.

I even told this has been answered in this thread by even an atheist

Re: Predestination Vs Free Will by Horus(m): 2:32pm On Dec 28, 2009

There are some things which are beyond your control. That is your destiny. Then there are things where you have a choice. That is free-will. If it’s raining outside, it’s your destiny as you have no control over the weather. However, to be wet or remain dry is your free-will.

So, you are just pretending you don't understand because you do not have any right thing to say again.

See person teaching whinchy

Capernum:
Meanwhile, only one thing guarantees heaven and that is "believe in the lord Jesus Christ"

He does not believe that does not live according to his belief. Thomas Fuller

Akwamkpuruamu:
If I knack married woman, I go go tell the husband? Before my sins are forgiven? Kuku tell me

Whether you tell or you know tell, God no dey forgive adultery

allen113:
U dn confess to God that is all that matters. If na something u thief u fit do restitution by returning it, but if na fornication or murder let it go, God dn forgive u be say him dn forgive you. Shekina

You no see say God no forgive David adultery and murder?

E no dey shikena like dat

Uchman1759:
Where Una Dey even see all these heaven and hell

Then why you dey fear die?

MaziObinnaokija:
U can still NOT MAKE HEAVEN...May God have mercy on us

He already gave us mercy, but did people take it?

Mostly No!

Ezini:
[quote author=ebubeson post=137642703]When someone accepts Jesus and repent of their sins, God forgives them totally and writes their names in the book of life, and they will make heaven.

Now, if as time goes on, the HolySpirit begins to prick, convict and tell the person to uncover a dirty secret: such secret may be: secret murder of a family member or neighbour or friend, paternity fraud, very valuable items stolen, false accusation against an innocent person that led to the person jailed, adultery done against a very innocent spouse, rituals done against former girlfriend, a very precious destiny tied with diabolism e.t.c, the person has to go and make confession to the offended if alive or a close person to the offended.

Any form of disobedience against the HolySpirit on this matter will lead to the person's name removed from the book of life.

Before a sensitive confession is carried out, please seek mature believers, pastors, church leaders to guide you with counsel and prayers, and God will see you through in Jesus name. Amen.

Vdestro, you dey see confession?

To me, some sins cannot be forgiven whether the person confesses or not.

And the Truth is we all know this.

And that is why we see some people fast and pray and go to church throughout their whole lives, yet when it's time to die, they would be crying and begging people to pray for them

ebubeson:
When someone accepts Jesus and repent of their sins, God forgives them totally and writes their names in the book of life, and they will make heaven...

This is not wholly True!

There are some sins that cannot be forgiven eg

https://www.nairaland.com/8305004/woman-forces-pepper-into-private

https://www.nairaland.com/6850129/girl-lived-me-brought-rapists#107620179

Two Ondo varsity students for conspiracy, and rape.

Ondo State police arrested 2 students a boy and a girl.

The police PRO said it started when the 20yr old victim was invited by her secondary school, school mate to her residence.

There is no way God can forgive a father who raped his own daughter or the one where a father and daughter fornicate and adulterate together.

Or whichy etc

There are many many sins that cannot be forgiven

QuinQ:
Well. Einstein was NOT an atheist. See his take on freewill below. Many other non-atheists also.

Einstein not believing in freewill, is him refusing to enter the argument.

So, he does not say that anybody right or left is right.

And the argument is not about what Einstein says or anybody says, atheist or not. I only pointed out that it is only you atheists who make this silly claim. Einstein did not make it rather it is you people who asked him how he views it, which you see, he did not want to enter into the argument. So he is not in the argument and all this OFF POINT.

Thus, the argument is about you supplying a valid counter to the argument I have raised above but YOU CANNOT and that is where the argument is

QuinQ:
You'd seem to be the atheist since you don't believe in God's pre-knowledge of all things that'll happen (see cartoon below).

This is OFF POINT/DEPARTURE FROM THE ARGUMENT

QuinQ:
You were asked what man can do with his "freewill" that AI can't do with it"s. No answer, instead you came up with some ridiculousity.
Why not will yourself not to think of a pink elephant or to stop feeling happy or sad.
Anyway, the cartoon below says you're an atheist who doesn't believe God's omniscience. Explain how it is wrong.

Still Off Point and not the argument between you and I.

And the thread shows that I answered him and you see he responded getting the import of my answer, which as you can see, he could no longer make any valid argument after that so, he kept quiet.

So, this, does not stand.

And the cartoon question is off point and it is a question that has several threads dealing with it, so go to those threads and learn how it works.

https://www.nairaland.com/371817/predestination-vs-free#5200680

Even an atheist still made the connection and confessed the Truth of it.

Re: Predestination Vs Free Will by Horus(m): 2:32pm On Dec 28, 2009

There are some things which are beyond your control. That is your destiny. Then there are things where you have a choice. That is free-will. If it’s raining outside, it’s your destiny as you have no control over the weather. However, to be wet or remain dry is your free-will.

QuinQ:
Has nothing to do with atheist. I have already said all this is from HUMAN perspective and that there are likely things we're not aware of.
Do some research on free will and what people smarter than yourself say.

It has everything to do with atheism. It is only atheists who make this silly claim.

And I told you already if you think they are right then bring your counter or their counters now, after all you already believe them, then it means you can represent them.

QuinQ:
Where do your thoughts come from? Do you decide it?
Those thoughts lead to your choices. Where does your intuition come from? Do you decide it? These things originate with activities in inner recesses of your brain that you are not aware of, based on your past experiences you have likely long since forgotten
Not only that, neurological science has determined that your choice appears on your brain BEFORE you consciously make a choice. Google it and stop arguing long-settloed matter

All these are rubbish and fallacious arguments for the definition of freewill does not care about where freewill comes from.

It is only concerned about your ability to do or refrain from doing a thing in accordance to your wish, desire or will.

So, that argument is a change of Post and departure from post

QuinQ:
That guy is right, you sound rather shallow. Why not read up on these things some b4 arguing further.

You are the ones who are shallow if not you would counter my points here to prove your belief.

In this issue, it is either you guys are right and I am wrong or vice versa. So if you think you are right counter my answer if you can.

QuinQ:
If you can will whatever you wish why are there addictions, depressions, all the way to suicides?I

Look at the definitions, does it define free as obtain your goal arising from your act?

No

Or does it define will as obtaining the fruits of your will?

No.

It only says "ability to act to do your wishes or desire whether you are successful or not."

Same for will which is expression of your personal desire, wish or choice whether it given/received or not.

So frustrations and depressions or joys and happiness are other things that separate and distinct as one of the bye products of the exercise of your freewill.

And you see, you choose depression forgetting it's opposite is joy. And this is why we Christians tell you little atheists or atheists wannabes that it is your delus that is controlling you and making you believe things you know that they are Lies, because of the pains and sufferings and depressions you guys go through since you exercised your freewill to reject God and His Ways. But no problem, I respect your freewill.

So back to the issue, depressions and joys are simply bye products arising from your use of your freewill. And suicide, is even an example of an exercise of freewill exactly how choosing to drive safely is the exercise of your freewill to live.

Man wills what he wills and can will whatever he wills to will, but, it is up to the Will of those greater than man to determine whether the man's will, will materialize.

DiarisGodoo:
Too low indeed to continue. You were asked a simple question. There's a reason "programmed" is in quotes. Humans are "programmed" by their experiences just like AI and their "freewill" is constrained by that "programming" just like AI.

We all know stories of children raised by animals who, when rescued, think they're one of those animals and behaved like them!
https://youtube.com/shorts/aVY07rZR0fw?si=PRhkC4q7HxK-_5sM

It tells you how far gone you are to believe a child could be raised by a dog.

Radios engines, computers are programmed. The regular human (not the ones who grew up in place where the crimes against humanity were perpetrated) learns by observation and repetition and then school makes him aware that he does something called thinking and processing (the very beginning of freewill) before he acts.

So, no human is programmed.

But A.i is already programmed an initio. And then it has been programmed to have more programme to do more programmed activities.

And that is why you cannot answer as you have seen the definition of programming does not in any way apply to humans.

yinkeys:
So how do you explain the proverb in the New Testament
Where they deleted the son whom was sent by the vineyard farmer, they were no longer Gods chosen people

That is the funny fact. If you look you would have seen that since that golden calf rubbish, God saw and understood that their plan was to annoy Him to leave them. (Which He felt like doing but Moses stopped Him ). So He continued the Plan and made it worser for Isreal by doing Pharoah to them aka "I will never let you go, no matter what". Isaiah 50:1.

So, you see sending His son was both a salvation and a trap for them even though He made sure nobody touches them. But He is reserving them for something terrible no one can see which is in the parable you see He ended with a question saying "what shall the Landlord do to those people when He comes?". No one can imagine it.

ezugegere:
You don't know what you're saying. I experienced, Buhari's regime (as a child), then, Babangida, Abacha, Abdulsalam. None of them was as useless as Buhari and Tinubu so far. What nonsense democracy where citizens cannot protest. Student Unionism is dead. You criticize government and DSS comes after you.
That one na democracy?
Abeg, make una go sit down!

Ah bros, they were useless ooo. You are just saying this because things have only graduated worse and worse.

But any change of ruler is welcome to me until someone good comes along

Ta! Dia

At least they understand that no one has a right to rule over his fellow men

and that if you rule over mrn, another man also has a right to rule over you.

And that no man has a right to rule over men exclusively.

And that if you are a bad ruler, everyone has a right to remove and replace your rule, even by force.

Brunicekid:
God has already commanded us not to commit adultery... No Doubt about that!!!

Even David, a man after God's Heart, committed adultery and GOT SERIOUSLY PUNISHED... The SON from the adulterous affair DIED, and one of his wives was slept with openly by one of his sons (this second one, am not so sure exactly)...

He was even OVER PUNISHED Sef for he is David, person wey know God well well. e no suppose do dat kain thing. So God lem am well well.

If your will operates within constraints you didn’t choose, it’s not free, it’s just an illusion at best. Did we choose to be born and participate in life in the first place? Did we choose our genetic makeup, the structure of our brain, the way your biology reacts to our environment, the century or location we were born into, our temperament/personality, our trauma, our instincts, or our cognitive limits? Obviously no to all those questions - not even a single yes - ergo no free will.

Imagine claiming a prisoner is free because during his set alloted "free time" he can choose to go to the gym or library. Or a chess piece thinking it’s free because it can move in the directions the game allows, but it forgets it can’t move outside the board or in any direction not permitted. Wonder why people still spout this buried argument.
Very apt indeed.
Cc: Dtruthspeaker, MaxInDHouse

QuinQ:
Very apt indeed.
Cc: Dtruthspeaker, MaxInDHouse

Though, as I've said before, this is from our very limited human perspective. There are very likely things we're not aware of as humans - otherwise how can it possibly be Adam's fault that he ate the apple?!

This is thrash

Free already means
free
/friː/
adjective 1. able to act or be done as one wishes;

Will already means
Will
/wɪl/
Verb 1. An expression of a personal desire, wish or choice,

So freewill is the combination of those words which mean "an ability to act in expression of one's personal desire, wish or choice"

No where is it stated that there must be no constraints or limitation for freewill to be freewill.

As long as you were free to will and act or refrain from acting, freewill has been fully and freely exercised and implemented.

And that is why when you have agreed to pay the price of fuel, you cannot say and you do not say that you did not have freewill. It is as simple and clear as that and so there is no debate on this issue.

DiarisGodoo:
Ok, say something that humans can use their "freewill" to do that AI can't use it's to do.
You can't.
Humans are "programmed" by their experiences just like AI and they can't override their own brain nor are they even aware of the deep background workings of the brain - just like AI

That word "programmed" is one of the differences that has blown away your case.

programme
/ˈprəʊɡram/
verb
past tense: programmed; past participle: programmed
1. provide (a computer or other machine) with coded instructions for the automatic performance of a task.

No codes are provided to a baby.

2) freewill means freedom- a right and power to serve or not serve a person. A. I is exactly the phone in your hands and the car you drive. It is built to serve you.

And you buy A.i exactly like your TV, shoes and clothes.

So, you see it is disgraceful of you to be saying that a thing, it is even software programme like Microsoft word and Excel,that is put in devices and maachines like an engine or alternator, is what you are raising to the level of humanity, it is not even standing on its own that you we can say see "A.i standing there. Or see A.i taking a stroll"

It is hiding inside a machine or tool exactly how viruses and bacteria and car batteries hide inside a body. This is very low man.

DiarisGodoo:
Are you ok at all? Haven't you been following at all?
Point is, neither humans nor AI has freewill!
And it doesn't take much thought to realize that!

Wrong.

Humans have freewill except they are in slavery like A.I.

A I is a computer and a robot and does not and cannot have freewill

Everyone knows that

yinkeys:
Is Old Testament Israel same as the politically created Zionist 1948 state ?
Is it the same one God talked about in the Old Testament
Why are some people getting it right or wrong ?

God foretold that Isreal will return to their land and never been moved which occurred in 1948

https://www.nairaland.com/8543312/list-all-wars-arabs-israel#137185072

DiarisGodoo:
Didn't the info get to baby as to who is daddy through some means? Didn't the baby learn it as it learns other things - just like AI?
Sorry, I can't continue. All due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. Go do some research on freewill

Humans and babies learn. computers do not. They are all calculators, answering machines and robots created to do specific things.

Robots do not have freewill it is humans and even animals who do.

So there is no way you can argue that a calculator has freewill. That is just damn ludicrous

Theawakensoul:
..1️⃣ Revelation remains symbolic, no matter how strongly we feel about i
My point about Revelation being symbolic is not “denial.”
It is simply how every Jewish and Christian scholar reads apocalyptic literature:
beasts
dragons
horns
stars falling
women clothed with the sun...

Every act has an intention behind them, and so I see your intention and it is from there I am hateful of your response because it is built on your wish and therefore you are turning the Truth into a Lie. Which is proven by your excessively long argument.

Liars always talk too much

[b]The Psychology of Lying and Talking Too Much
The general sentiment behind the idea is rooted in a psychological observation:
Over-explanation: A person telling a lie often provides unnecessary, insignificant minor details in an attempt to sound more credible and distract from the central untruth.
Creating a convincing narrative: Liars may add more information than an honest person would volunteer, hoping to "anchor and armor" their lie with many surrounding truths.

And this is what annoys me for you are Lying

For look at it all your arguments are always long and bulky?
Why?
Because there are many lies hidden among all those appearance of Truth.

And the beginning of your Lies is you reducing the bible to mere symbolism. Meanwhile, everyone knows that symbolism is indicative and passes a specific message the symbol I saying.

In your post with a crafty sleight of hand, you have changed the message of the symbols mixing it up and hiding it in the bigger whole of the storm of Lie you have created, making it difficult to spot and resolve as if you are caught one way, you would slip to another.

So, if indeed you are saying the Truth, then let's focus on only one issue which is the symbolism you are selling and let us see if you would not see that it does not stand at all. For it has even been settled that the bible is literal, even though we have not fully decoded all its symbolisms eg the 666 thing. (I have even decoded it but I am not going to tell anybody)

And you see another proof you are Wrong? See how everyone is always picking something wrong with your answer leading to an unending argument.

A fact that is true has little opposition and in the end the opposition have to stay silent. Because no valid argument can be made against a Truth

But see all the unending arguments you have threaded

Ken4Christ:
7

Your problem is unbelief. If what you read doesn't agree with your pre conceived opinions, you just find a way to explain it away.

This is not unbelief but denyal. That is the meaning of what you described in the bold

And you see he is using the trick of excessively long argument to sell his wishfuelled perversion.

The bible is very clear on these things, no ambiguity

yemmit90:
After seeing something like "consent rape" in your writeup, I have concluded you might not really understand the meaning of subject matter being discussed here.

If I am to go by your claim, it means you can practically have sex with your mum (my apology), female family members or mad women if they play inducement game on you?

Well, you may still be a teenage boy, reason you think a divck must response to every female bodies.

Now you have changed the post to hitting below the belt and unreasonability where your claim was based on "a naked sexy girl" and not your mother or mad person whom you already know that no one has experience sex induction from those persons.

And it is noted that you did not say sister because you knew that one is already going on, thereby proving you admit that your claim is falls.

And clearly you sufa erectile not-function if not you would have known that it is not only when a divck is erect that it has responded.

And rather than you ask questions or stay silent as you never knew that there was a thing like "consent rape", you rather chose to show ignore-rance of which you only have social knowledge of the subject and not the criminology of it.

DiarisGodoo:
Doesn't a human being rely on things like books to learn? How info gets to AI is irrelevant. What's important is that it learns just like a human, and once it iearns something it's inside it. Example, a chess-playing AI doesn't need any cables to easily beat the best human

You see, yourself! What book did a baby read to learn how to identify mummy and daddy and aunty? Or languages or signs?

A. I is an empty laptop without info, so how info gets to it, is proof that it is still a landline answering machine and not learning anything only changing gears like automatic transmission vehicles.

And stop disgracing yourself and your GenEven my uncle's NEC desktop computer in 1989 or so plays chess and scrabble, solitaire not to talk of our hand held video games like Contra, Batman, Spiderman, Swamp thing (I'm sure you don't know this one since they have not made gen z movie of it)

So, boy please stop disgracing your father's school fees

yemmit90:
Women don't rape and can't rape. Penis works with your psychology than physical touch, no amount of bodily touch can arose you if your feelings are not connected. You can put it to test, if your mind is not on sex or under a very sad situation, a naked sexy girl can sit on your naked divck and still not move you a bit.

Only a delude person will think a woman can rape a man withoout his consent, reason the law don't recognise such.

What a garbage field. You must be sufaring from erectile not-function for your divck to not stand when you see a woman like the ones seen in gyms.

Also, women rape men by getting the unwilling man or boy to bleep them. That is how they usually get it done.

And this is what I call "consent rape" or "rape by consent".

And this is where you see why men are always afraid of women and must be because, you don't know how she may choose to end this sex inducement game.

As she can end it with you bleeping her and she letting it slide or she may play it the you-raping- her way.

So this is where you see women make you (sex inducement) commit the crime, while they play anyway they want eg sitting looking like they are no where near the scene of the crime exactly like what the friend in this case did or the other one in which f00. ssh men celebrate the score.

Not knowing that it is them who have been played and rather she is the one who did the most scoring.

Theawakensoul:
Brother, let’s stay on the topic with clarity, not confusion or insults.
Let me respond to your points one by one so we don’t mix things together.

1. “Was Revelation the first to say this?”

That’s not what I said.

My point is simple:
Revelation is a book of visions and symbols, not a literal description of the afterlife. Every scholar, Christian, Jewish, academic, agrees that Revelation contains:
beasts with multiple heads,
stars falling into oceans,
dragons,
monsters rising from the sea,
a lamb opening seals,
a woman clothed with the sun,

These are symbolic images, not journalism.
So using Revelation to argue a literal burning hell is a misuse of the book.

Symbolic book → symbolic language.
Not literal geography.

2. “Did someone teach you to fear death?”
Brother, let’s be honest:
It is the church system, not me, that spent over 1500 years teaching people to fear death through:
eternal torment,
burning forever,
demons torturing people,
fire that never ends,

Fear of death did not come from the original Hebrew teaching.
It came from translations, medieval doctrines, and church politics.

What I’m doing is the opposite:
Removing fear, restoring original meaning, and freeing people from psychological manipulation.

3. The insult you added (“like naked mad men in the market”)
When a person leaves facts and enters insults, it shows the argument is weak.
I’m not here to trade insults; I’m here to restore context.
Let’s talk scripture, not mockery.

4. The real issue
You are defending doctrines that were shaped centuries after Yeshua, while I am simply pointing people back to:
the original Hebrew words,
the cultural context,
the metaphors Yeshua used,
what Gehenna actually meant,
how Jewish people understood afterlife,
how the church transformed these concepts into fear tools,

If we want truth, we must follow history, language, and context, not fear and tradition.

5. Final note
I engage with respect and clarity.
If you prefer insults, that is your choice.
But if we are looking for truth, we must rise above fear and emotional reactions.

Peace and Love.
TheAwakenSoul (TAS)

Denial is not a Truth.

And my words will always appear an insalt to a person in denyal because

I could deny it if I liked. I could deny anything if I liked. Oscar Wilde

So, we all know what you are doing and why you are doing it, no matter how colourful and logical it sounds, Truth is still greater than all these, and God always makes sure that we know the Truth before Judgement so that you can never ever claim that you did not know. And before God, there is no denial or lying.

And one of the first signs is that It is always criminals who concern themselves with how the punishment will be, therefore, they MUST come up with ways on how they plan to carry the punishment. And this where you all are going bonkers with delus because God has not given you the details of how His punishment shall be. And the mere fact that He Said eternal tor.m.... just made it worse for you all.

So, you are now trying to kill the message or at least water it down by desperately and meticulously selling your deniles.

Denial is the beginning of the end. Anonymous