₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Acehart post=95462836]Cc: WoundedLamb

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A CONVERSATION ON LUKE 17:1-10

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Corn: “ Honestly, I enjoyed reading your exposition”

Acehart: “Deacon Keh is disappointed at the guy’s response“

Corn: “I kinda understood you when you talked about the past attempts to ‘speak things into being’ that didn't pan out so... But when we look at Jesus' talk about mustard seed and speaking to things... I honestly get confused. “Replace “confused“ with “uncertain“”. The disciples asked Jesus to increase their faith...“

Acehart: “Concerning what?“

Corn: “I'm looking at the one in Luke 17“.

Acehart: “Very easy. The mountain was repeated offenses.”

Corn: “So they were to speak offenses away?“

Acehart: “No! Not that way.“

Corn: “How then?“

Acehart: “Look at the exclamation in verse 5; Jesus gave them a very difficult task: Forgive every time your brother comes to ask for forgiveness after he offends you. The guys scream, AH! Like Yoruba people. Increase our faith sounds like: increase our power to do this.”

Corn: “Hmmm.“

Acehart: “Then Jesus compares the ease of forgiving a multiple offender to the ‘ease‘ a servant serves his master dinner after spending hours taking care of sheep in the field. The servant’s master doesn’t care what he thinks; So Jesus doesn’t care what the disciples think. They must do what He bids them do.“

Corn: “I’m speechless and sad. It’s a difficult task”.

Acehart: “So they must not care for the stubborn nature of the unforgiving heart. They must deal with it and forgiveness would spring forth. Wow! A mulberry tree must be a very difficult tree to uproot.“

Corn: So, was the talk about commanding the mulberry tree to uproot itself and plant itself in the water figurative?

Acehart: “The heart is the issue, rather, the bruised heart and its tendency not to forgive after a lot of hurt“

Corn: “I get this part. What I don't get is why He made the reference to the tree and commanding it. Honestly, it seems like a sharp detour. And then He continues with the servant talk.”

Acehart: “Let me go back to study those verses again. I’ll get back to you.“

Corn: “Later“.

[Six days later]

Acehart: I haven’t forgotten about our last conversation and these are my findings concerning speaking to the mulberry tree and offenses using Esau and Joseph’s life experience:

1. Offender’s response to the offended: speak about your life’s history and your present effort to make amends. (Gen. 32)

2. The response of the offended: Speak and continue speaking to the offender. (Gen. 33:4-9). Keep speaking. (Gen 42).

Luke 17:1-10. Offenses to little ones:

What offenses causes the “little ones” to stumble?:

1. Injustice (Luke 18)
2. False teaching (James 3: 1-17, James 2:10-12); the effect of wrong teaching of tribulation and its persecution because of the shallow understanding of the word. (Matthew 13:20-21)

A Babylonian etiological myth, which Ovid incorporated in his Metamorphoses, attributes the reddish-purple color of the mulberry fruits to the tragic deaths of the lovers Pyramus and Thisbe.

“Some North American cities have banned the planting of mulberries because of the large amounts of pollen they produce, posing a potential health hazard for some pollen allergy sufferers. (They are also invasive).

The dripping juice from its fruits leaves behind a fermenting stench.

“The mulberry tree in Israel was grown in abundance and used to build coffins. The mulberry tree was a very tough, durable wood that resisted decay, much like today's treated lumber so it was used to build caskets. The moment, Jesus brought up the mulberry tree everyone's mind went to death, funerals and the use of that tree.” (Quoted)

Like I suggested the last time we spoke, the parable was about the unforgiving heart. What Jesus was portraying is this: the sin of unforgiveness is a sin that brings forth death in our lives.

I went to the book of Genesis to check out how two of the most hurt guys in the scriptures - Esau and Joseph, handled the “unforgivable”. The offended kept on talking to the offender(s). The offenders too kept on speaking (about their offense and their continuous effort to make amends); the offended took great effort to speak to the offender (without blocking any channel for reconciliation).

No wonder the disciples exclaimed “Increase our faith!”. Jesus continues by explaining the very tired servant’s (mental) effort to satisfy his master’s needs - so it is for the little one’s effort to have mercy on the offender.

Why then should we forgive?

Proverbs 17:22 - A joyful heart is good medicine, But a broken spirit dries up the bones.

I read somewhere that many people diagnosed with cancer had bitterness of heart (towards someone or something) prior to having the disease.

May the Lord help us to forgive everyone or every system that has hurt us in Christ’s name. Amen.

Corn: “I see...Thanks for this.”


A WhatsApp conversation in December MMXIX.


Cc: Mr ‘spiritual maintenance’, MuttleyLaff, are you doing preventive maintenance or repairs or an overhaul?





[Nice exposition.]

The write-up is nice. I think that it is easy for matured Christians to understand this write-up but it didn't still simplify the doctrine of the Trinity to Christians that are young in the faith. I am privy to an earlier write-up by the author that simplifies this topic more than this. He can refine that and share it here for all to see.

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=91874100]Yeah, this mindset is very wrong and leaves a bad taste in the mouth

"¹²So they set out and preached that the people should repent.
¹³They also drove out many demons and healed many of the sick, anointing them with oil."
- Mark 6:12-13

Anointing, biblically is done to symbolise being set apart for God's work and be made ready for God's work, God's use or transfer of God's power. The 12 disciples in Mark 6:13 above, drove out many demons, healed many people and anointed them with olive oil. They however didnt make a merchandise of anointing with olive oil

Apostle James was one of them twelve that first hand used olive oil to anoint the sick, so it is understandable, he is recommending in James 5:14a to pray to the sick and to augment with some element of olive oil anointing

[Shalom to you all. I would like to make a submission on this issue.
The practice of anointing with perfumed oil was common among the Hebrews. Some instances are highlighted below:
(1.) The act of anointing was significant of consecration to a holy or sacred use; hence the anointing of the high priest (Ex. 29:29; Lev. 4:3) and of the sacred vessels (Ex. 30:26). The high priest and the king are thus called "the anointed" (Lev. 4:3, 5, 16; 6:20; Ps. 132:10). Anointing a king was equivalent to crowning him (1 Sam. 16:13; 2 Sam. 2:4, etc.). Prophets were also anointed (1 Kings 19:16; 1 Chr. 16:22; Ps. 105:15). The expression, "anoint the shield" (Isa. 21:5), refers to the custom of rubbing oil on the leather of the shield so as to make it supple and fit for use in war.
(2.) Anointing was also an act of hospitality (Luke 7:36-50; Matt. 26:6-13; John 12:1-. It was the custom of the Jews in like manner to anoint themselves with oil, as a means of refreshing or invigorating their bodies (Deut. 28:40; Ruth 3:3; 2 Sam. 14:2; Ps. 104:15, Matt.6:17, etc.). This custom is continued among the Arabians to the present day.
(3.) Oil was used also for medicinal purposes. It was applied to the sick, and also to wounds (Ps. 109:18; Isa. 1:6; Mark 6:13; Luke 10:34; James 5:14).
(4.) The bodies of the dead were sometimes anointed (Mark 14:8; Luke 23:56).
(5.) The promised Deliverer is twice called the "Anointed" or Messiah (Ps. 2:2; Dan. 9:25, 26), because he was anointed with the Holy Ghost (Isa. 61:1), figuratively styled the "oil of gladness" (Ps. 45:7; Heb. 1:9). Jesus of Nazareth is this anointed One (John 1:41; Acts 9:22; 17:2, 3; 18:5, 28), the Messiah of the Old Testament.
In the OT among other things, the anointing was majorly used to consecrate or make sacred (High priests) and to confer the spirit of the Lord on kings and prophets. It was also used for other purposes listed above.
In the NT, Jesus is the Messiah (the anointed one) and He was so designated by prophecy in some passages of the OT (Psalm 2:2; Daniel 9:25-26, etc.). He at once typifies a prophet, a priest, and a king, the center of all prophecy, the antitype of all priesthood, and the source and end of all kingship (Luke 4:18; Acts 4:27; Acts 10:38). He was anointed with the Holy Spirit from the womb, then at His baptism (John 1:32-33,41). Hereby the NT marks Him as the Messiah of the OT (Acts 9:22; Acts 17:2-3; Acts 18:5; Acts 18:28). What He is His people are, Messiahs or "anointed ones" by union with Him (Zechariah 4:14), having the unction of the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 2:20). Therefore, there is no need for any special anointing for any special purpose(s).
I know in many churches today, when some people “are called” into ministry, the church performs ordination. During the ordination, the new ministers are anointed with oil, but the Bible shows us a perfect way to do such ordinations. Examples include Jesus ordaining the twelve apostles (Matt. 10:1-4; Mark 3:13-19; Lk. 6:12-16), the apostles ordaining the deacons (Acts. 6:1-6), the appointment of Barnabas and Saul (Acts. 13:1-3), Barnabas and Saul appointing the elders (Acts. 14:23) etc. There was never a mention of the anointing oil in any of these cases. But I would not know if anyone of us has come across an instance where the apostles or the early church leaders ordained/appointed anyone into church leadership using the anointing oil.
In the case of anointing the sick with oil as referenced in James 5:14, I think it was not for any supernatural purpose. It was merely a medicinal item, which together with the prayer would be providentially efficacious in the healing process. Similar instances are seen in the parable of the good Samaritan and other places (Lk. 10:34; Isa. 1:6).
However, some people may argue that oil, as a physical remedy, would be useless in many sicknesses. The more reason that it was mentioned in only one other place in the Bible that the apostles used anointing oil during the healing of the sick (Mark 6:13). Every other time, they only prayed for the sick and they were healed.
The caveat for us Christians should be that as much as possible, we should stick with Jesus in all that we do such that in situations and practices that could sway the faith of the people from Christ to other things should be avoided in its entirety. This will help in preventing Christianity from being turned into idolatry.
I leave you with this question, in whom do you put your faith, is it in Christ (the embodiment of the anointing) or in “anointing” oil (a material representation of the anointing)?
I call you blessed!!]

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=91874100]Yeah, this mindset is very wrong and leaves a bad taste in the mouth

"¹²So they set out and preached that the people should repent.
¹³They also drove out many demons and healed many of the sick, anointing them with oil."
- Mark 6:12-13

Anointing, biblically is done to symbolise being set apart for God's work and be made ready for God's work, God's use or transfer of God's power. The 12 disciples in Mark 6:13 above, drove out many demons, healed many people and anointed them with olive oil. They however didnt make a merchandise of anointing with olive oil

Apostle James was one of them twelve that first hand used olive oil to anoint the sick, so it is understandable, he is recommending in James 5:14a to pray to the sick and to augment with some element of olive oil anointing

Shalom to you all. I would like to make a submission on this issue.
The practice of anointing with perfumed oil was common among the Hebrews. Some instances are highlighted below:
(1.) The act of anointing was significant of consecration to a holy or sacred use; hence the anointing of the high priest (Ex. 29:29; Lev. 4:3) and of the sacred vessels (Ex. 30:26). The high priest and the king are thus called "the anointed" (Lev. 4:3, 5, 16; 6:20; Ps. 132:10). Anointing a king was equivalent to crowning him (1 Sam. 16:13; 2 Sam. 2:4, etc.). Prophets were also anointed (1 Kings 19:16; 1 Chr. 16:22; Ps. 105:15). The expression, "anoint the shield" (Isa. 21:5), refers to the custom of rubbing oil on the leather of the shield so as to make it supple and fit for use in war.
(2.) Anointing was also an act of hospitality (Luke 7:36-50; Matt. 26:6-13; John 12:1-. It was the custom of the Jews in like manner to anoint themselves with oil, as a means of refreshing or invigorating their bodies (Deut. 28:40; Ruth 3:3; 2 Sam. 14:2; Ps. 104:15, Matt.6:17, etc.). This custom is continued among the Arabians to the present day.
(3.) Oil was used also for medicinal purposes. It was applied to the sick, and also to wounds (Ps. 109:18; Isa. 1:6; Mark 6:13; Luke 10:34; James 5:14).
(4.) The bodies of the dead were sometimes anointed (Mark 14:8; Luke 23:56).
(5.) The promised Deliverer is twice called the "Anointed" or Messiah (Ps. 2:2; Dan. 9:25, 26), because he was anointed with the Holy Ghost (Isa. 61:1), figuratively styled the "oil of gladness" (Ps. 45:7; Heb. 1:9). Jesus of Nazareth is this anointed One (John 1:41; Acts 9:22; 17:2, 3; 18:5, 28), the Messiah of the Old Testament.
In the OT among other things, the anointing was majorly used to consecrate or make sacred (High priests) and to confer the spirit of the Lord on kings and prophets. It was also used for other purposes listed above.
In the NT, Jesus is the Messiah (the anointed one) and He was so designated by prophecy in some passages of the OT (Psalm 2:2; Daniel 9:25-26, etc.). He at once typifies a prophet, a priest, and a king, the center of all prophecy, the antitype of all priesthood, and the source and end of all kingship (Luke 4:18; Acts 4:27; Acts 10:38). He was anointed with the Holy Spirit from the womb, then at His baptism (John 1:32-33,41). Hereby the NT marks Him as the Messiah of the OT (Acts 9:22; Acts 17:2-3; Acts 18:5; Acts 18:28). What He is His people are, Messiahs or "anointed ones" by union with Him (Zechariah 4:14), having the unction of the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 2:20). Therefore, there is no need for any special anointing for any special purpose(s).
I know in many churches today, when some people “are called” into ministry, the church performs ordination. During the ordination, the new ministers are anointed with oil, but the Bible shows us a perfect way to do such ordinations. Examples include Jesus ordaining the twelve apostles (Matt. 10:1-4; Mark 3:13-19; Lk. 6:12-16), the apostles ordaining the deacons (Acts. 6:1-6), the appointment of Barnabas and Saul (Acts. 13:1-3), Barnabas and Saul appointing the elders (Acts. 14:23) etc. There was never a mention of the anointing oil in any of these cases. But I would not know if anyone of us has come across an instance where the apostles or the early church leaders ordained/appointed anyone into church leadership using the anointing oil.
In the case of anointing the sick with oil as referenced in James 5:14, I think it was not for any supernatural purpose. It was merely a medicinal item, which together with the prayer would be providentially efficacious in the healing process. Similar instances are seen in the parable of the good Samaritan and other places (Lk. 10:34; Isa. 1:6).
However, some people may argue that oil, as a physical remedy, would be useless in many sicknesses. The more reason that it was mentioned in only one other place in the Bible that the apostles used anointing oil during the healing of the sick (Mark 6:13). Every other time, they only prayed for the sick and they were healed.
The caveat for us Christians should be that as much as possible, we should stick with Jesus in all that we do such that in situations and practices that could sway the faith of the people from Christ to other things should be avoided in its entirety. This will help in preventing Christianity from being turned into idolatry.
I leave you with this question, in whom do you put your faith, is it in Christ (the embodiment of the anointing) or in “anointing” oil (a material representation of the anointing)?
I call you blessed!!