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The Mulberry Tree And Forgiveness: A Conversation Between Corn And Acehart by Acehart: 11:47am On Oct 29, 2020
Cc: WoundedLamb




A CONVERSATION ON LUKE 17:1-10



Corn: “ Honestly, I enjoyed reading your exposition”

Acehart: “Deacon Keh is disappointed at the guy’s response“

Corn: “I kinda understood you when you talked about the past attempts to ‘speak things into being’ that didn't pan out so... But when we look at Jesus' talk about mustard seed and speaking to things... I honestly get confused. “Replace “confused“ with “uncertain“”. The disciples asked Jesus to increase their faith...“

Acehart: “Concerning what?“

Corn: “I'm looking at the one in Luke 17“.

Acehart: “Very easy. The mountain was repeated offenses.”

Corn: “So they were to speak offenses away?“

Acehart: “No! Not that way.“

Corn: “How then?“

Acehart: “Look at the exclamation in verse 5; Jesus gave them a very difficult task: Forgive every time your brother comes to ask for forgiveness after he offends you. The guys scream, AH! Like Yoruba people. Increase our faith sounds like: increase our power to do this.”

Corn: “Hmmm.“

Acehart: “Then Jesus compares the ease of forgiving a multiple offender to the ‘ease‘ a servant serves his master dinner after spending hours taking care of sheep in the field. The servant’s master doesn’t care what he thinks; So Jesus doesn’t care what the disciples think. They must do what He bids them do.“

Corn: “I’m speechless and sad. It’s a difficult task”.

Acehart: “So they must not care for the stubborn nature of the unforgiving heart. They must deal with it and forgiveness would spring forth. Wow! A mulberry tree must be a very difficult tree to uproot.“

Corn: So, was the talk about commanding the mulberry tree to uproot itself and plant itself in the water figurative?

Acehart: “The heart is the issue, rather, the bruised heart and its tendency not to forgive after a lot of hurt“

Corn: “I get this part. What I don't get is why He made the reference to the tree and commanding it. Honestly, it seems like a sharp detour. And then He continues with the servant talk.”

Acehart: “Let me go back to study those verses again. I’ll get back to you.“

Corn: “Later“.

[Six days later]

Acehart: I haven’t forgotten about our last conversation and these are my findings concerning speaking to the mulberry tree and offenses using Esau and Joseph’s life experience:

1. Offender’s response to the offended: speak about your life’s history and your present effort to make amends. (Gen. 32)

2. The response of the offended: Speak and continue speaking to the offender. (Gen. 33:4-9). Keep speaking. (Gen 42).

Luke 17:1-10. Offenses to little ones:

What offenses causes the “little ones” to stumble?:

1. Injustice (Luke 18)
2. False teaching (James 3: 1-17, James 2:10-12); the effect of wrong teaching of tribulation and its persecution because of the shallow understanding of the word. (Matthew 13:20-21)

A Babylonian etiological myth, which Ovid incorporated in his Metamorphoses, attributes the reddish-purple color of the mulberry fruits to the tragic deaths of the lovers Pyramus and Thisbe.

Some North American cities have banned the planting of mulberries because of the large amounts of pollen they produce, posing a potential health hazard for some pollen allergy sufferers. (They are also invasive).

The dripping juice from its fruits leaves behind a fermenting stench.

The mulberry tree in Israel was grown in abundance and used to build coffins. The mulberry tree was a very tough, durable wood that resisted decay, much like today's treated lumber so it was used to build caskets. The moment, Jesus brought up the mulberry tree everyone's mind went to death, funerals and the use of that tree.” (Quoted)

Like I suggested the last time we spoke, the parable was about the unforgiving heart. What Jesus was portraying is this: the sin of unforgiveness is a sin that brings forth death in our lives.

I went to the book of Genesis to check out how two of the most hurt guys in the scriptures - Esau and Joseph, handled the “unforgivable”. The offended kept on talking to the offender(s). The offenders too kept on speaking (about their offense and their continuous effort to make amends); the offended took great effort to speak to the offender (without blocking any channel for reconciliation).

No wonder the disciples exclaimed “Increase our faith!”. Jesus continues by explaining the very tired servant’s (mental) effort to satisfy his master’s needs - so it is for the little one’s effort to have mercy on the offender.

Why then should we forgive?

Proverbs 17:22 - A joyful heart is good medicine, But a broken spirit dries up the bones.

I read somewhere that many people diagnosed with cancer had bitterness of heart (towards someone or something) prior to having the disease.

May the Lord help us to forgive everyone or every system that has hurt us in Christ’s name. Amen.

Corn: “I see...Thanks for this.”


A WhatsApp conversation in December MMXIX.


Cc: Mr ‘spiritual maintenance’, MuttleyLaff, are you doing preventive maintenance or repairs or an overhaul?
Re: The Mulberry Tree And Forgiveness: A Conversation Between Corn And Acehart by MuttleyLaff: 12:22pm On Oct 29, 2020
Acehart:
Cc: WoundedLamb

A CONVERSATION ON LUKE 17:1-10

Corn: “ Honestly, I enjoyed reading your exposition”

Acehart: “Deacon Keh is disappointed at the guy’s response“

Corn: “I kinda understood you when you talked about the past attempts to ‘speak things into being’ that didn't pan out so... But when we look at Jesus' talk about mustard seed and speaking to things... I honestly get confused. “Replace “confused“ with “uncertain“”. The disciples asked Jesus to increase their faith...“

Acehart: “Concerning what?“

Corn: “I'm looking at the one in Luke 17“.

Acehart: “Very easy. The mountain was repeated offenses.”

Corn: “So they were to speak offenses away?“

Acehart: “No! Not that way.“

Corn: “How then?“

Acehart: “Look at the exclamation in verse 5; Jesus gave them a very difficult task: Forgive every time your brother comes to ask for forgiveness after he offends you. The guys scream, AH! Like Yoruba people. Increase our faith sounds like: increase our power to do this.”

Corn: “Hmmm.“

Acehart: “Then Jesus compares the ease of forgiving a multiple offender to the ‘ease‘ a servant serves his master dinner after spending hours taking care of sheep in the field. The servant’s master doesn’t care what he thinks; So Jesus doesn’t care what the disciples think. They must do what He bids them do.“

Corn: “I’m speechless and sad. It’s a difficult task”.

Acehart: “So they must not care for the stubborn nature of the unforgiving heart. They must deal with it and forgiveness would spring forth. Wow! A mulberry tree must be a very difficult tree to uproot.“

Corn: So, was the talk about commanding the mulberry tree to uproot itself and plant itself in the water figurative?

Acehart: “The heart is the issue, rather, the bruised heart and its tendency not to forgive after a lot of hurt“

Corn: “I get this part. What I don't get is why He made the reference to the tree and commanding it. Honestly, it seems like a sharp detour. And then He continues with the servant talk.”

Acehart: “Let me go back to study those verses again. I’ll get back to you.“

Corn: “Later“.

[Six days later]

Acehart: I haven’t forgotten about our last conversation and these are my findings concerning speaking to the mulberry tree and offenses using Esau and Joseph’s life experience:

1. Offender’s response to the offended: speak about your life’s history and your present effort to make amends. (Gen. 32)

2. The response of the offended: Speak and continue speaking to the offender. (Gen. 33:4-9). Keep speaking. (Gen 42).

Luke 17:1-10. Offenses to little ones:

The offense cause the little ones to stumble. What offenses causes the “little ones” to stumble?:

1. Injustice (Luke 18)
2. False teaching (James 3: 1-17, James 2:10-12); the effect of wrong teaching of tribulation and its persecution because of the shallow understanding of the word. (Matthew 13:20-21)

A Babylonian etiological myth, which Ovid incorporated in his Metamorphoses, attributes the reddish-purple color of the mulberry fruits to the tragic deaths of the lovers Pyramus and Thisbe.

Some North American cities have banned the planting of mulberries because of the large amounts of pollen they produce, posing a potential health hazard for some pollen allergy sufferers. (They are also invasive).

The dripping juice from its fruits leaves behind a fermenting stench.

The mulberry tree in Israel was grown in abundance and used to build coffins. The mulberry tree was a very tough, durable wood that resisted decay, much like today's treated lumber so it was used to build caskets. The moment, Jesus brought up the mulberry tree everyone's mind went to death, funerals and the use of that tree.” (Quoted)

Like I suggested the last time we spoke, the parable was about the unforgiving heart. Jesus was portraying is that the sin of unforgiveness is a sin that brings forth death in our lives.

I went to the book of Genesis to check out how two of the most hurt guys in the scriptures - Esau and Joseph, handled the “unforgivable”. The offended kept on talking to the offender(s). The offenders too kept on speaking (about their offense and their continuous effort to make amends); the offended took great effort to speak to the offender (without blocking any channel for reconciliation).

No wonder the disciples exclaimed “Increase our faith!”. Jesus continues by explaining the very tired servant’s (mental) effort to satisfy his master’s needs - so it is for the little one’s effort to have mercy on the offender.

Why then should we forgive?

Proverbs 17:22 - A joyful heart is good medicine, But a broken spirit dries up the bones.

I read somewhere that many people diagnosed with cancer had bitterness of heart (towards someone or something) prior to having the disease.

May the Lord help us to forgive everyone or every system that has hurt us in Christ’s name. Amen.

Corn: I see...Thanks for this

A WhatsApp conversation in December MMXIX.

Cc: Mr ‘spiritual maintenance’, MuttleyLaff, are you doing preventive maintenance or repairs or an overhaul?
[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
Re: The Mulberry Tree And Forgiveness: A Conversation Between Corn And Acehart by Prettygirl27: 1:19pm On Oct 29, 2020
Nice conversation. Confusing at first, but it is a clever swipe at the hyper-grace movement's name-it and-claim-it prayer model. I'd like you to give your opinion on the 'speak to mountain' conversation in Matthew 21; if I put your explanation of Luke 17 side by side with mountain discussion, it is clearly two different approaches.
Re: The Mulberry Tree And Forgiveness: A Conversation Between Corn And Acehart by Acehart: 6:05pm On Oct 29, 2020
Prettygirl27:
Nice conversation. Confusing at first, but it is a clever swipe at the hyper-grace movement's name-it and-claim-it prayer model. I'd like you to give your opinion on the 'speak to mountain' conversation in Matthew 21; if I put your explanation of Luke 17 side by side with mountain discussion, it is clearly two different approaches.

As they were passing by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots up. Being reminded, Peter said to Him, "Rabbi, look, the fig tree which You cursed has withered." And Jesus answered saying to them, "Have faith in God. Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him. Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you. Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions. [But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your transgressions.” Mark 11:20-26

There has to be relationship between the “speaking to the mountain” and forgiveness, do you agree? This discourse doesn’t seem to have anything to do with Peter’s curiosity about the withered fig tree, do you agree? Jesus seems to be speaking about something else, ignoring Peter’s observation.

In the Old Testament, the word “Mountain“ was a metaphor for the temple at Jerusalem; and the the word “Sea” was metaphor for ‘destruction and judgement’. (Funny enough, in the Old Testament, “fig tree” was a metaphor for Israel. Do you notice the parallelism? The unfruitful fig tree and the unfruitful temple). The verses preceding verse 20 showed how Jesus was utterly disgusted at the happenings in the temple.

Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him.” Jesus says.

From this verse, I believe was referring to a prayer He had made to the Father regarding the corrupted temple - its destruction; and it would be granted to Him.

So what does forgiveness have to do with the corrupted temple?

Jesus spoke about standing to pray: at the temple at Jerusalem, the faithful stood (and still stand today) to pray. If the temple was going to be destroyed, where would the faithfuls stand to pray? It has to be at a new mountain; Jesus states that forgiveness would not be a future reality but a present one - “Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.” But if the temple Solomon prayed that God may forgive His people becomes corrupted, then it must be removed and destroyed, and a new place where people may seek forgiveness of sins has to be built. Jesus had spoken of the destruction of “this temple“ to the Pharisees and it being rebuilt - He was referring to His body as the temple. Christ wasn’t a future reality but a present one; Hence, prayer for forgiveness will be made in Him.
Re: The Mulberry Tree And Forgiveness: A Conversation Between Corn And Acehart by Prettygirl27: 8:44pm On Oct 29, 2020
Acehart:


There has to be relationship between the “speaking to the mountain” and forgiveness, do you agree? This discourse doesn’t seem to have anything to do with Peter’s curiosity about the withered fig tree, do you agree? Jesus seems to be speaking about something else, ignoring Peter’s observation.

In the Old Testament, the word “Mountain“ was a metaphor for the temple at Jerusalem; and the the word “Sea” was metaphor for ‘destruction and judgement’. (Funny enough, in the Old Testament, “fig tree” was a metaphor for Israel. Do you notice the parallelism? The unfruitful fig tree and the unfruitful temple). The verses preceding verse 20 showed how Jesus was utterly disgusted at the happenings in the temple.

Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him.” Jesus says.

From this verse, I believe was referring to a prayer He had made to the Father regarding the corrupted temple - its destruction; and it would be granted to Him.

So what does forgiveness have to do with the corrupted temple?

Jesus spoke about standing to pray: at the temple at Jerusalem, the faithful stood (and still stand today) to pray. If the temple was going to be destroyed, where would the faithfuls stand to pray? It has to be at a new mountain; Jesus states that forgiveness would not be a future reality but a present one - “Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.” But if the temple Solomon prayed that God may forgive His people becomes corrupted, then it must be removed and destroyed, and a new place where people may seek forgiveness of sins has to be built. Jesus had spoken of the destruction of “this temple“ to the Pharisees and it being rebuilt - He was referring to His body as the temple. Christ wasn’t a future reality but a present one; Hence, prayer for forgiveness will be made in Him.

I guess Jesus was showing a pattern of prayer. Saying, when we ask God for forgiveness, we should believe that mercy has been granted to us especially if our sin is so great like that going on in the temple. But for forgiveness to be granted, we must first forgive people who hurt us. This seems to be an afterword to the Mulberry picture of an unforgiving heart. Tough one.
Re: The Mulberry Tree And Forgiveness: A Conversation Between Corn And Acehart by Acehart: 8:42am On Oct 30, 2020
Prettygirl27:


I guess Jesus was showing a pattern of prayer. Saying, when we ask God for forgiveness, we should believe that mercy has been granted to us especially if our sin is so great like that going on in the temple. But for forgiveness to be granted, we must first forgive people who hurt us. This seems to be an afterword to the Mulberry picture of an unforgiving heart. Tough one.

In another light, If Solomon by sacrifice had made a wonderful prayer to God for the longevity of the Jerusalem temple, Jesus asking for its destruction is a big request to God. If Jesus’ prayer was already granted, He encouraged us to pray and ask, and believe that we have received what we prayed for, and they will be granted us.

1 Like

Re: The Mulberry Tree And Forgiveness: A Conversation Between Corn And Acehart by EclecticGee: 7:48pm On Oct 31, 2020
[quote author=Acehart post=95462836]Cc: WoundedLamb




A CONVERSATION ON LUKE 17:1-10



Corn: “ Honestly, I enjoyed reading your exposition”

Acehart: “Deacon Keh is disappointed at the guy’s response“

Corn: “I kinda understood you when you talked about the past attempts to ‘speak things into being’ that didn't pan out so... But when we look at Jesus' talk about mustard seed and speaking to things... I honestly get confused. “Replace “confused“ with “uncertain“”. The disciples asked Jesus to increase their faith...“

Acehart: “Concerning what?“

Corn: “I'm looking at the one in Luke 17“.

Acehart: “Very easy. The mountain was repeated offenses.”

Corn: “So they were to speak offenses away?“

Acehart: “No! Not that way.“

Corn: “How then?“

Acehart: “Look at the exclamation in verse 5; Jesus gave them a very difficult task: Forgive every time your brother comes to ask for forgiveness after he offends you. The guys scream, AH! Like Yoruba people. Increase our faith sounds like: increase our power to do this.”

Corn: “Hmmm.“

Acehart: “Then Jesus compares the ease of forgiving a multiple offender to the ‘ease‘ a servant serves his master dinner after spending hours taking care of sheep in the field. The servant’s master doesn’t care what he thinks; So Jesus doesn’t care what the disciples think. They must do what He bids them do.“

Corn: “I’m speechless and sad. It’s a difficult task”.

Acehart: “So they must not care for the stubborn nature of the unforgiving heart. They must deal with it and forgiveness would spring forth. Wow! A mulberry tree must be a very difficult tree to uproot.“

Corn: So, was the talk about commanding the mulberry tree to uproot itself and plant itself in the water figurative?

Acehart: “The heart is the issue, rather, the bruised heart and its tendency not to forgive after a lot of hurt“

Corn: “I get this part. What I don't get is why He made the reference to the tree and commanding it. Honestly, it seems like a sharp detour. And then He continues with the servant talk.”

Acehart: “Let me go back to study those verses again. I’ll get back to you.“

Corn: “Later“.

[Six days later]

Acehart: I haven’t forgotten about our last conversation and these are my findings concerning speaking to the mulberry tree and offenses using Esau and Joseph’s life experience:

1. Offender’s response to the offended: speak about your life’s history and your present effort to make amends. (Gen. 32)

2. The response of the offended: Speak and continue speaking to the offender. (Gen. 33:4-9). Keep speaking. (Gen 42).

Luke 17:1-10. Offenses to little ones:

What offenses causes the “little ones” to stumble?:

1. Injustice (Luke 18)
2. False teaching (James 3: 1-17, James 2:10-12); the effect of wrong teaching of tribulation and its persecution because of the shallow understanding of the word. (Matthew 13:20-21)

A Babylonian etiological myth, which Ovid incorporated in his Metamorphoses, attributes the reddish-purple color of the mulberry fruits to the tragic deaths of the lovers Pyramus and Thisbe.

Some North American cities have banned the planting of mulberries because of the large amounts of pollen they produce, posing a potential health hazard for some pollen allergy sufferers. (They are also invasive).

The dripping juice from its fruits leaves behind a fermenting stench.

The mulberry tree in Israel was grown in abundance and used to build coffins. The mulberry tree was a very tough, durable wood that resisted decay, much like today's treated lumber so it was used to build caskets. The moment, Jesus brought up the mulberry tree everyone's mind went to death, funerals and the use of that tree.” (Quoted)

Like I suggested the last time we spoke, the parable was about the unforgiving heart. What Jesus was portraying is this: the sin of unforgiveness is a sin that brings forth death in our lives.

I went to the book of Genesis to check out how two of the most hurt guys in the scriptures - Esau and Joseph, handled the “unforgivable”. The offended kept on talking to the offender(s). The offenders too kept on speaking (about their offense and their continuous effort to make amends); the offended took great effort to speak to the offender (without blocking any channel for reconciliation).

No wonder the disciples exclaimed “Increase our faith!”. Jesus continues by explaining the very tired servant’s (mental) effort to satisfy his master’s needs - so it is for the little one’s effort to have mercy on the offender.

Why then should we forgive?

Proverbs 17:22 - A joyful heart is good medicine, But a broken spirit dries up the bones.

I read somewhere that many people diagnosed with cancer had bitterness of heart (towards someone or something) prior to having the disease.

May the Lord help us to forgive everyone or every system that has hurt us in Christ’s name. Amen.

Corn: “I see...Thanks for this.”


A WhatsApp conversation in December MMXIX.


Cc: Mr ‘spiritual maintenance’, MuttleyLaff, are you doing preventive maintenance or repairs or an overhaul?





[Nice exposition.]
Re: The Mulberry Tree And Forgiveness: A Conversation Between Corn And Acehart by Acehart: 8:20am On Nov 01, 2020
[quote author=EclecticGee post=95543138][/quote]

Thank you, sir

(1) (Reply)

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