₦airaland Forum

I agree with you with all my heart. Instead of arguing, let us present reasonable facts or events or other pieces of evidence supporting our positions.

@Z4M4eva, concentrate on loving myke forever and leave things that are obviously beyond you especially since it doesn't have to do with Myke. I told you specifically in response to your first response to this post that you need to get your facts from home. However, you forgot them again. In this, therefore, go back to Myke and forget this thread. Otherwise, go home, get your facts and come back.

@Goodguy, which of the biblical pronouncements have come to pass? That the Jews would be saved from Egypt? Or that a son would be born unto a virgin? or what? The first part is easy, in todays mordern world, no nation is allowed to be held captive by another nation. Take for instance the liberation of Nigeria from the British colonialists. Why didn't the bible predict that one too? Or that of Iran from Iraq? Or the Bakassi issue. As to the second part, I still coherent evidence that there was anybody born whose name was called Jesus and whose conception was imaculate. Let's agree for one moment that Jesus lived in the period he was said to have lived, who is to say he was not a direct product of the efforts of Joseph and Mary on their matrimonial bed afterall they were engaged to be married at the time according to the bible.

Show me one piece of evidence and I will listen to you

@Goodguy, what do you suggest we use in proving the sovereignty of God? I thought this post was about the contradictions contained in the bible? Would like to clarify those issues? I am sure we can get into another debate as to the sovereignty or otherwise of God if one (as portrayed by organised religion) exists.

So the fact the someone dreams he will another human wearing a red shirt at 3pm the next day on his way back from work is evidence that God exists? Spare me. How many dreams have you had that have not till date come to pass? Dreams are described as a state of mind characterised by abstraction and release from reality. It is also described as a series of mental images and emotions occuring during sleep. That aside, people have been known to carry out astral travels (knowingly or unknowingly) and actualy see what is in the future. In what way is this a prove of the existence of God?

@layi, you claim to have had supernatural encounters. With who, where, in what form did this encounter take place? What is defined as supernatural? Can you give me one singular theory that supports the existence of God that does not have a flaw? Until such a time that you give me something tangible to work with, I still contend from my deductions that there is no God as portrayed by Revealed Religion as is presently constituted.

@Goodguy, what a laugh, give me your own rational conclusion on the subject matter. As to why the questions and arguements are getting hotter, has it occured to you that people are begining to get out of the clutches of dogma to excersice their intuitions and power of reasoning?

@Z4M4eva,

Z4M4eva:
God Exists

Lovely piece of logical thinking you have just exhibited. Only you forgot your proof at home.

God is as presently portrayed by organised religion is a creation of a thinking man to serve the purpose of men in want of a deity.

@Kismat, nice one. You dont make a living by reading the bible. You make a living by preaching it. Take a look at the streets of lagos and tell me which two does not have a church. I contend that God (as revealed by motheism) does not exist let alone talk to anybody

God does not exist. Why?
- God contradicts Free Will of all living beings including itself.
- Evil and suffering contradict existence of a benevolent god.
- God is dangerous and religion is wrong
- Souls do not exist

Etc. Read it all at www.vexen.co.uk/religion/rm.html

Edited by Seun

kodewrita, nice attempt. Let's start from the begining

(b) if you were in a dark room all day would you still use the sun to know when the day has passed or a watch? does god need eyes to tell the time? is time dependent on planetary bodies or independent of them?

The answer to that is no. You know why? Because you loose your sense of time when u are in dark room. So if there was no moon or sun till the 4th day, there would have been no sense of time. So nobody would have known when is the first or fourth day. And yes, God needs eyes to tell the time. God created everything on earth and that includes time, everything he gave us is what he knows we need and would have tested or experimented.Is time dependent on planetary bodies? Time is dependent on the revolution of the earth around the sun, if the sun is not a planetary body, I dont know what else is. If God did not need eyes (etc) to tell the time, how did he do it? Give me a logical answer and let's not go the omni whatever route again.

2. the statement that the sun was not created until that time simply represents the fact that it had not yet shone on the earth. we are told there was a firmament covering the face of the heavens. light could not easily get through. that does not mean there were no other forms of light.

Make up your mind. Was it created on the 4th day or was it created earlier only it did not shine through. The bible says specifically that on the fourth day God created the sun. Simple. He did not say the sun shone through on the fourth day. Is this not simple again?

Do me a favor and let's look at this realistically

This is all very good. PrettyH, they are not contradictions to you but truths. Fair enough. What we ask is that you share those salient truths with us. Take us out of our ignorance and win some souls for God. Instead of getting upset et al, why dont you try explaining?

Pretty H, you need other sources of evidence to prove historical documents. You need hard evidence that can be directly related to the said issues to be able to authenticate them.

Layi, my ittinary 14 months ago does not claim to be the way of life. It does not make assumptions to having come from God. If it did, I am sure it will at least other pieces of hard evidence to authenticate it. I have not told you that I do not believe in the bible, neither have I said that I do believe in it as a matter of fact. All I am saying is that there ought to be sufficient proof to support both your arguements and the bible itself. As to what I believe, I believe there is a superior intelligence existing that supercedes all and other forms of intelligence and powers. Now, whether this intelligence is the same as the Christian God and if He is, whether He authorised or provided inspiration for the writting of the bible is another issue entirely and it is this issue that I seek explanation for from people like you.

Does this simplify it?

No I will not change. I will only change my opinion and my behabioural pattern. My hair color will still be the same and so will my skin texture and body build. Still want to try?

All according to the bible. Any external unrelated document proving all these?

RhodaRose, those were desciples of Jesus not Paul. Barnabas went to seek paul the same way you can go to see your friend. Paul had no followers. Otherwise, he would have been hypocritical. I disagree with your definition of Christ like. In my dictionary, it is walking and living and behaving like Christ did. You define it as a likeness as in picture or image likeness. The bible was talking about likeness in behaviour, believes and practices. Ask your pastor

RhodaRose, I did not ask what time, I asked what day. See the difference? Let me agree with you for one second and adopt your contention that God is not limited by time. Let's say He is timeless as you say, he still has to deal with humans who are restricted and controlled by time. Or is the world going to become timeless just before he "appears"? Have a good day RhodaRose, nice reading your posts.

Very well, PrettyH. What was the point of your post if are not ready to go through the motions? Anyhow, I will take your word for it that someother people will try to disprove my point. By the way, the reason people convert from one religion to another is because other people took the pains to disprove what they believe. So they see the errors of their way and change. See what I mean? Have a lovely day

RhodaRose, what you are asking in simple terms is if I am stupid as well? Well, you will need to convince of the fact that followers of Paul are called Christians. I never heard it before and since you are the first to tell me, I think the onus lies on you to prove it.

Donnie, you have done well. So the second comming is different from the rapture? I understand your explanation. But my point is, will it occur on the same day for everybody (All the believers) in the world? Such that if it happens at 2pm on a tuesday in Taipei, it will also be 2pm on tuesday for the believers in Cameroon?

PrettyH, so now you think for me as well? You have made up your mind that nothing can change my mind? Who gave you the authority to decide for me? Why dont you try disproving the facts so stipulated with hard evidence and let's start from there?

RhodaRose, the followers of Paul are not called christians. I dont know of anybody who is called a follower of paul. However, christians are followers of christ not paul. Otherwise they will be called "Paulstians"

Layi, I cant believe you wrote that. Anyhow, the point is that there is nothing in the post that points to my ego. I asked a very simple question: What day is Christ coming? Will be a monday? And if it is a monday, how about the people in China who would have been in their tuesday already? Will they cheat us of one full day? Or will time stand still? I suggest you try answering the question or simply say you dont know. Nobody has questioned God here and the issue of God is quite debatable though. Anyhow, read the post again and tell me, once more, about my ego. Have a nice day.

Goodguy, you cannot prove the authenticity of a book by refering to that same book. As nferyn told you, you need other sources to prove it. I'd like to see one of those books. By the way, I am posting an article soon on the history of the bible. Have you ever heard of anyone called Constantine? I doubt it, but he actually started all this bible thing. There are also other versions of the bible which survived the burnings by the Holy Catholic Monopoly.

I will leave it here for the moment. You guys think about it. I suggest we all look at the issues raised from an unbiased point of view. Let us leave Dogma and damnation and doubting God, alone for one singular minute, you might be suprised what you will turn up.

Pharod, thanks a mil. I have actually read the Vatican. It's just one the exposes of the mafia within the mafia. Thanks for posting though. And keep reading.

Our basic problem is that we sycophants. Until we set our priorities right and stop voting money. Until we start voting people and ideologies instead of parties, we will keep having this problem.

It's all good people. Goodguy, what part of the bible am I going to read to clarify the issue of time differences? Nferyn, don't say it aloud otherwise, Rhodarose and goodguy will tell you how you will be damned forever. Are people not tired of telling others to believe what doesn't make sense to them? You will either believe or burn in a lake of fire made of brimestone. There is a simple law of physics. Anything put into fire will burn to ashes unless it is a stone, and give a stane 10 years in hot fire, it begins to disintergrate. And don't tell me about God having the power to do all things. I read an article today, this article asks that you perform a simple experiment. It says you should get an amputee, someone who has both legs cut off and get people to pray for him fervently, in fact get some people world wide millions of them to form a prayer cell for this man and pray that God restore his limbs, pray for one year and see what happens. If this one is too technical for you, get a coin and pray over the coin. Pray "Oh lord, I believe in you and I believe you can do all things. I am going to toss this coin 50 times, please let it land heads all fifty times, in Jesus name I pray. Amen" The article says you wont get past the 6th throw before you turn up tails. Ofcourse you can tell me that you can not try God and etc etc... I understand all that. Let us say you win, but how come God wont make it turn tails for all that time just to prove to your unbelieving heart that he is God if only to save you from this sulphure and brimestone circle to which you are doomed? Afterall the bible says that God delights in the repentance of just one sinner.

I know people will soon start telling about not tempting the lord my God and that his ways are different from the ways of man. That is all good but don't bother, because it wont deal with the issue at hand

Nice attempt. Still doesnt answer if the Chinese will cheat us of one day or not

Just a thought that confuses me. Exactly what day will Christ come? Notice that I didn't say what date as the master himself does not even know. But since Australia is 9 Hours ahead of Ghana, for instance and Japan is also 9 hours ahead and Texas is 6 hours behind and China is 11 hours ahead. That means if he comes on a wednesday (Ghana time), it would be Thursday for China and Japan and Australia. The bible says that when he comes, all eyes shall see him. So I ask again, what day exactly will he be coming. Will time stand still for him to appear to us all at the same moment? Because if he comes on a monday in Ghana which is already tuesday in China, the Chinese would have cheated us by one full day or at worst half a day. Does anyone have a clue?

Very well, people. I think we have a basic misunderstanding of what we are all trying to say. David, We are not arguing about the authenticity of the word of God. If you remember, the post was about discrepancies in the bible and not about their authenticity. So far, we have all veered dangerously away from the issue at hand to deal with issues other than that of interpretation and explanation.

RhodaRose, your response refers:

No, I said Elijah and Moses went to Heaven in a whirlwind and returned from Heaven at the transfiguration then returned again to Heaven (Jesus didn't go till after His resurrection) "Why would Jesus say that no man hath been to heaven apart from him who came from heaven......"? Because He was not talking about Himself, but Elijah and Moses.

And I reply as follows: Jesus was not talking about Elijah and Moses, he was talking about himself. John 3:13(b) ".Apart from he who came from heaven, Which is the son of man....". If you take that whole verse in context, it means that no one has been to heaven in whatever form or shape apart from Jesus himself who is the Son Man (the Man) in heaven. read the entire verse.

When you imply that seeking God's face is tantamount to aspiring to see his face in person, I beg to differ. When you seek you father's face, english language interpretes it to mean that you aspire to enter your father's good graces. You want to be in his good books. You want to be on his side. Nothing to do with the seeing of a face.

About where you said Jesus took Elijah and Moses to heaven, read your first post in which you mentioned the transfiguartion (Not your very first post to this topic, but the first one you mentioned transfiguration in). Just as a matter of interest, can someone at least attempt to explain the passages mentioned in the original post about the discrepancies contained in the holy scriptures? I do not think it a valid point to assume that the holy spirit will show guidance. The rest of the bible aside the parts mentioned are quite plain and easy to comprehend without the added liability of discrepancies. Why are there no dis-similarities in them? I contend that the scriptures were tampered with otherwise, let someone tell me why there are different accounts of the same events.

You can say that again Eddy.

Thank you Bani, I shall certainly bear that in mind

rhodaRose,

Maybe you did not notice, David was the first to mention the word "christian" and I was only replying to his post. And to set the record straight, this topic is not about God or Abraham as you claim. It is about the seeming contradictions in the bible. When you highlight biblical passages that ask us to see the face of God do you want us to take it at face value? If that is the case, I pray that the holy spirit should give you inspiration. Seeking the face of God and Moses's meeting God face to face are two different things even at the worst of times.

You are not making very much sense to me one minute you contend that Elijah and moses did not go to heaven until the transfiguration another minute you say they went back to heaven where they had been till the transfiguration. In you latest post, you seem to agree with the bible that God took Elijah by a whirlwind into heaven, if this is correct, then we are back to where we started, "Why would Jesus say that no man hath been to heaven apart from him who came from heaven......"? If Elija had gone to heaven? I dont even want to talk about Moses going to heaven because my Bible says he was buried by God (and not an Angel of God as you contended in your previous response), So I cannot categorically say he went to heaven. Let us leave that for the meantime and deal with the issue at stake.

Oh, yes, you did not say that Jesus disappeared with Elijah and Moses, you said he "took them to heaven". Only you didn't say by what means. By the way, when you quote several bible paragraphs, it would be easier for me to understand if you could explain them as you quote them.

El-Baron

Pope John Paul I died only 33 days into his Pontificate (August 26, 1978 - September 28, 1978). It was one of the shortest reigns in the annals of the papacy. The official cause of death was myocardial infarction (a heart attack). But there was a great deal of confusion in the details of his sudden death, and many were crying - murder!

The "Smiling Pope," as he was affectionately called was born Albino Luciani on October 17, 1912 near Belluno, Italy. He was ordained in 1935, made Bishop in 1958 and became patriarch of Venice in 1969. He received his cardinal's hat in 1973. He was a staunch believer in ecumenism and the reduction of Church wealth. He was warm, humble and had no aspirations for the papacy. After Pope Paul VI died, Luciani was elected on the second day of the Conclave in 1978. He refused to wear the papal tiara or to be carried in the gestatorial chair. He was praised as a liberal reformer who read Mark Twain. He was on a mission to reverse the Church's position on contraception, cleaning up the Vatican bank and dismissing many Masonic cardinals.

A word here about the Masonic cardinals:

The P-2 Lodge, as it was called, was founded in 1877 to provide for provincial Freemasons - known as Propaganda Due (P-2). It became a secret lodge in 1970 to recruit men of right-wing persuasion to prevent a Communist takeover. It was involved in a financial scandal and its offices were raided and membership lists were found. Many heads of the Italian State services, government officials, police chiefs, businessmen, journalists etc. were listed. This organization was disbanded but still operated secretly. In fact, they are still operating within Vatican circles to this very day.

Many Roman clerics were hostile towards Luciani. It was rumored he was deliberately elected by cardinals keeping secrets that he was too weak to bother them and his health would cause him to die prematurely in office. However, to the surprise and consternation of those very same cardinals, Pope John Paul I immediately investigated the Vatican Bank and wanted to clean house of any prominent prelates who were Freemasons.

He was about to make a series of dismissals and new appointments and remove those accused of financial and other misdeeds. All this has been construed as a motive for his murder.

The Vatican Bank Scandal:

The Vatican Bank (or The Institute for Works of Religion - IOR), was personally owned and operated by the Pope and made loans to religious projects all over the world. It was discovered that the bank exploited its high status and engaged in risky speculation and illegal schemes, including money laundering. Money was invested with Robert Calvi, head of the bank in Milan. He was eventually convicted for currency fraud in 1981 - (over $1.3 billion dollars was missing from bank funds). Calvi fled to England where he was found dead, hanging from a bridge in London.

Another participant in the scandal was Michele Sindona, an advisor to Pope Paul VI. Sindona was poisoned in 1986 in his prison cell. This sordid financial fraud also was linked with the Masons, the Mafia, arms dealers, political kickbacks and monies funneled through the CIA to support Solidarity in Poland.

Was the Pope Poisoned?

Davis Yallop's book, "In God's Name: An Investigation into the Murder of Pope John Paul I," (1984), speculates that digitalis was the poison used. The Pope was taking medicine for low blood pressure, and just half a teaspoon of digitalis could cause a fatal heart attack. But the Pope also suffered from poor circulation and had suffered an eye embolism in 1975. Switching pills or forgetting to take medication could also have proven lethal. But it is uncertain who would have been able to slip the digitalis into the Pope's liquid medication - Effortil.

There are many contradictions surrounding his death. The initial report issued by Cardinal Villot said the Holy Father had been found dead by Sister Vincenzia and not by a secretary. One report had him dead in his bathroom, the other by his desk in his bedroom. There were also discrepancies about the time the body was found, 4:30 am or 5:30 am? The official estimates was that he died at 11pm on September 28th. No autopsy was performed. (The last Pope to be autopsied was Pius VII in 1830).

Another report stated the Pope complained of feeling sick but wouldn't call a doctor. He suffered a pain and a violent cough during that afternoon. It might have been a minor embolism. He was conferring with two secretaries around 8pm. After dinner, he rushed down the hallway to get a telephone call around 9:15 pm. This may have triggered the fatal heart attack. Both cases are plausible. But what really happened that night?

The Motives for Murder:

This spiritual leader of all the Roman Catholics, Albino Luciani, was actually embarking on a revolution. He wanted to set the Church in a new direction which was considered highly undesirable and dangerous by many high ranking Church officials.

He wanted, first of all, to strip many of powers by dismissing them or reassigning them into harmless positions. This directly involved the Freemasons. There were over one hundred Masons within Vatican City ranging from Cardinals to priests. Canon Law stated that to be a Freemason was grounds for automatic ex-communication. Six men in particular, stood to lose a great deal if Pope John Paul I remained in power. (These were - Marcinkus, Villot, Calvi, Sindona, Cody and Gelli). There was a suspicion of a conspiracy among these men with Villot the instigator and Gelli the executioner.

Motives for the Pope's murder were in these series of dismissals and new appointments he was about to make. The Pope also wanted the Church's wealth shared with the poor. He was also on the verge of reversing the Church's position on artificial birth control, as well as cleaning up the messy Vatican Bank scandal. He was about to approve the birth-control pill. In his "Humanae Vitae," he urged pastoral clergy acceptance of contraception and also acknowledged those children born by in-vitro fertilization. A remarkable and radical change from current Church policy, indeed.

Does this prove assassination by poisoning? The alleged conspirators tried to make it look like a natural death, according to Yallop. His Holiness' domestics, secretaries, doctors, Swiss Guards, police force and judiciary of the Italian State were forced into silence. Sindona, Calvi (The Banco Ambosiano Group), Marcinkus and Cardinal Cody stood to lose much if Albino Luciani were to carry out his specific course of action. There was a growing list of people about to be seriously affected by the purported action of the Pope, especially Cardinal Jean Villot, the Pope's Secretary of State. Bishop Marcinkus was to be replaced by Monsignor Abbo and Cardinal Villot was to be replaced with Cardinal Benelli as Secretary of State for the Vatican. There was apparently much corruption that the Pope was about to root out.

Poison was the most efficient way to have his death appear natural. It would leave no tell-tale external signs. Digitalis was the most probable. It would mask the conspiracy. This plan would have had to involve intimate knowledge of Vatican procedures. There would also be no autopsy. Other incriminating and outward signs of foul play would be removed.

The Details:

Cardinal Villot's account was that it was a tragic accident. He alleged that the Pope overdosed on his own medication. This explanation was most improbable and defamatory. It almost insinuated that the Pope, so overwhelmed with the burden of his office, committed suicide! Everything was done to cover up this crime. However, no one would believe in an accidental death. And Cardinal Villot happened to be a Grand Master of the Masonic secret. He concocted a story for Sister Vincenzia who discovered the body. Then he made her take a vow of silence afterwards. She said she found the body in the bathroom, not his bed.

The bottle of Effortil disappeared along with the Pope's glasses and slippers, probably because there were traces of vomiting on them. This was a symptom of digitalis poisoning. Also, the Pope's Will had disappeared. The embalmers were called immediately after Cardinal Villot confirmed the Holy Father's death at 5:30 am. The Cardinal then made Sister Vincenzia take the vow of silence. Dr. Buzzonati (not Prof. Fontana of the Vatican medical service, she should have been called in), confirmed the death and attributed it to acute myocardial infarction. The death occuring at 11 pm last evening (Sept. 28th). This report was made around 6:00 am. A whole hour had passed. Eventually Villot informed the other cardinals from around 6:30 am onward. No sacrament of extreme unction was given! The hypothesis of a sudden death seemed untenable to the personal doctor of the Pope's faithful secretary Don Lorenzi.

In death, the Pope's features were twisted and contorted in agony. The Signoracci brothers, the embalmers, attempted to remodel the face so his death agony would be changed to show a calm expression. Many people, however, had already seen the distorted features before these embalmers did their work.

The sisters who served as maids and domestics, cleaned and polished the Pope's chambers soon after his death. Any evidence, such as fingerprints, was destroyed. Again, vomiting was one of the early symptoms of a digitalis overdose. The secretaries packed up the Pope's clothes, letters, notes and personal mementos. By 6 pm the evening of September 29th, the 19 rooms of the Papal Apartments had been thoroughly stripped. And the embalmed body would make an autopsy useless. By 11 pm that same evening, practically all traces of his reign had been removed. The memory of his presence in the Vatican had been wiped clean. The alleged assassination was complete. So the murder theory goes.

Many causes for suspicion aroused:

The Pope was in good health, according to his brother Edoardo. He reported that His Holiness was given a clean bill of health after a medical examination three weeks before his death.

A report in Time Magazine - October 9, 1978 - relating an opinion that the untimely death of Pope John Paul I stirred deep suspicions of him being poisoned.

The Third Secret of Fatima, which was never made public, revealed, some authorities say, the outlines of the murder of a Pope.

The Vatican has thwarted any research and suppressed any investigation into this matter from the very beginning.

SUMMARY OF EVENTS:

Early September 1978: Pope John Paul I asks Cardinal Jean Villot, the Secretary of State for the Vatican, to investigate the Vatican Bank operations. He also is considering the reversal of the Church's stand on artificial birth control.

Later that month he presents Cardinal Villot with a list of those to be transferred, reassigned or asked to request for resignation. These lists are persons suspected of being Freemasons (that group called P-2). Cardinal Villot happened to be Grand Master, and his name was at the head of the list. This shift of power would have had a major impact on the existing Vatican hierarchy and would also have affected its financial practices.

September 29, 1978: John Paul I found dead in his bed. Cardinal Villot issues false statements, removes key evidence from John Paul's room and orders the body embalmed before an autopsy can be performed.

FURTHER EVENTS AFTER HIS DEATH:

October 1978: John Paul II replaces the dead Pope. None of Luciani's instructions or edicts are carried out.

January 21, 1979: Murder of Judge Emillio Alessandrini, a magistrate investigating the Banco Ambrosiano activities. Calvi and Sindona have close ties to the Vatican.

March 20, 1979: Murder of Nino Pecorelli, an investigative journalist, exposing membership and dealings of the Freemason's P-2 group.

July 11, 1979: Murder of Giorgio Ambrosioli following his testimony concerning Sindona and Calvi in Vatican business circles.

July 13, 1978: Murder of Lt. Col. Antonio Varisco, head of Rome's security service also investigating the activities of the P-2 group and was speaking with Giorgio Ambrosioli two days before Ambrosioli's death.

July 21, 1979: Murder of Boris Guilano, the Palermo police deputy who spoke to Ambrosioli also two days before his death. This concerned Sindona's money laundering of Mafia money channeled through the Vatican Bank to Switzerland bank accounts.

October 1979: Bomb explodes in the apartment of Enrico Cuccia of Mediobanca and a witness of G. Ambrosioli.

February 2, 1980: The vatican withdraws an agreement to provide videotaped depositions of M. Sindona in his trial in the U.S. on charges of fraud, conspiracy and misappropriation of funds in connection with the collapse of the Franklin National Bank.

May 13, 1980: Attempted suicide of Sindona in jail.

June 13, 1980: Sindona sentenced to 25 years.

July 8, 1980: Attempted suicide of Roberto Calvi, also jailed for fraud.

September 1, 1981: The Vatican Bank acknowledges its controlling interests in a number of banks controlled by Calvi for more than one billion dollars of debt.

January 2, 1981: A group of shareholders in Banco Ambrosiano send a letter to John Paul II exposing connections between the Vatican Bank and Roberto Calvi, P-2 and the Mafia. The letter is never acknowledged.

April 27, 1982: Attempted murder of Roberto Rosone, General Manager of Banco Ambrosiano as he was trying to clean up the bank's operations.

June 17, 1982: Roberto Calvi found hanged to death from a bridge in London. Days later $1.3 billion dollars was found missing from the Banco Ambrosiano, Milan.

October 2, 1982: Guiseppe Dellacha, executive of Banco Ambrosiano found dead from a fall out of one of the bank's windows.

March 23, 1986: Michele Sindona poisoned to death in the Italian jail for which he was serving time for ordering the death of Giorgio Ambrosioli.

PREDICTIONS OF THE MURDER OF JOHN PAUL I BY NOSTRADAMUS

Century 3, Quatrain 35:

When the sepulcher of the great Roman is found,
The day after a Pope shall be elected;
The Senate (Conclave) will not approve of him.
His blood is poisoned in the sacred chalice.

Century 10, Quatrain 12:

The one elected Pope will be mocked by his electors,
This enterprising and prudent person will suddenly be reduced in silence,
They cause him to die because of his too great goodness and mildness.
Stricken by fear, they will lead him to his death in the night.

Century 4, Quatrain 11:

He who will have the government of the great cape
Will be lead to execute in certain cases.
The twelve red ones will spoil the cover.
Under murder, murder will come to be perpetrated.


Based upon the evidence and events, only one conclusion is evident. But still, there were no indictments, no subpoenas issued, no trials, no convictions made. It has been twenty seven years since the death of Pope John Paul I and the mystery will continue to be debated.

RhodaRose, what exactly is your point. Believe me, I am confused. And I am the first to accept this. 2 Kings 2:11 states specifically that Elijah was taken up by a whirlwind into Heaven (as opposed to "on high". Enoch's case is debateable as the bible says he was "no more, for God had taken him" (Heb 11:5) That is a little ambigous and could be interpreted to mean anything. But the case of Elijah, well, what more can I say? Talking about the transfiguration, Jesus did not acsend to heaven on the day of the transfiguration. You will note that he did this after he ressurrected. So Jesus could not have taken them to heaven on that day. Assuming Jesus did, where were they all the while till the day of the transfiguration?

David, thank you for post. I wish to explain the concept of christianity. Christian means Christ-Like. In the likeness or footsetps of christ. Since Abaraham was pre-Christ, there could not have been any christians at the time. That is a given. God manifested himself to Abraham, and spoke to him. If God manifests himself to me today, I will do exactly as Abraham did. By the way, hallucinations differ in so many ways from a direct manifestation. Your point, though taken, does not address the issues at stake. Think about it.

Layi, the interpretations are not in any way saying the same thing. This is Jesus King of the Jews is very different from Jesus of Nazareen, king of the Jews. When you say that God is not Masculine, what does it mean? That he is not a man? Exactly my point. I stated that for God to be described as "He" he must have masculine attributes. And when you say he is whole, does it mean he is neither male nor female? Pre-Adamite world. Interesting, at what point did this world exist?

Did Zerubabel have two wifes or did he probably have two wifes? At least you are making an effort to explain them without refering to dogma. That is refreshing. And thanks for your contribution. I shall look forward to your further analysis.

El_Baron