₦airaland Forum

FriendNG:
Though I don't know but stoning to death is nowhere to be found in the Quran.

But It was carried on according to hadiths. But not a single person was caught and stoned. They all brought themselves willingly.

Even when they brought themselves the prophet (SAW) don't want it until they force themselves. It is meant to be a deterrent

You will never caught adulterers and fornicators

They usually escape through the back door or window

Or hide under the bed or inside water container

AlBaqir:
# So, the sheik did not believe in those ahadith in sahih Bukhari (Umar's narration), and Abu Dawud (Aisha's narration)?!

# Obviously, the sheik knew the danger in believing those ahadith therefore made a fastest run by rejecting them. Poor him.

# Emp.iree, se una see world's eyes (oju aye)?

sino:
Okay, I understand you, while your claim is plausible, the author disagreed, quoting relevant hadiths, which indicated that the Prophet (SAW) upheld this hadd found in the Torah and which had been hitherto neglected by the Jews and Christians.

They indeed neglected it but he(saw) enforced it on them when Jewish adulterers were brought to him. It was after that, when it was clear that Jews would not accept Islam and even attempted to kill him that their sharia ceased to exist. A new Law now came down(Flogging) which is Islamic sharia, and it is better than the former. But rajm stands in their law for as long as they remain judeo-Christian, they must enforce it.

Either way, both are Allah's hukm. Application is what we are arguing here. Both at meant to deter

sino:
Please stop muddling things up! I tried to present excerpts from a research, I posted a link so you can read further and get the full picture, but it seems your mind is made up, and not that I really want to change it, I just wanted to present an academic view, which I find convincing. The author did not claim there is an hidden ayah, but based on other corroborating evidences, the Prophet (SAW) enforced the hadd of rajm as already revealed in the Torah. That verse establishes the fact that rajm is Allah's Hadd for adultery. So when I said it is implied, I do not mean hidden verse or abrogated verse!

Please go to the link and read the full article.

wallah you are the one getting it wrong. Albaqir, did you get this?. My argument is not about rajam is not Allah's. I never said that. My argument is, it is no longer sharia of nabi(saw), it is sharia of the yahud and nasara and still there in their book.

sino:
Is it the hadiths of the Prophet (SAW) that you are referring to as stories?! Hope you know that what the Prophet (SAW) did is also part of the Shari'ah?!

Yes, what he did is part of sharia too. But here it is a different argument. He faced Jerusalem too as his Qibla when he came to medina before Allah turned his face towards Makkah.

Turning of his face to Makkah abrogates former Qibla i:e Jerusalem. This is the same argument with rajm

sino:
Brother, the argument of the author isn't that the verse was abrogated, rather, it is still in the Qur'an in Al Maidah 5:43, although implied. Please don't confuse my submissions with what the Shi'as believe, they are far apart.

Ha, brother, this ayah you quoted clearly refers to the time when the Jews came to the prophet (saw) to pass judgement on the two adulterers. Remember the incident?.

This ayah said that the judgment of Allah is in their torah, why is the need for them to come to nabi?. They simply wanted to set him up and test his prophethood too like they did to nabi Isa (as). So nabi enforced Allah's hukm in their book on them.

If a sunni also believes there is a hidden ayah of Quran somewhere, he's no different from shia's

^^ sino,

This epistle still has implications. If a verse of Quran is abrogared as we know it, abrogated verse remains in the Quran just like many other alleged abrogated verses.

Like for instance, Q2:62 is said to have been abrogated by Q3:85. So both verses remain the in Book. Why is rajm an exception? . This is hanky panky. It means you believe in the very same thing shia are accused of, that Quran is incomplete. If you submit to the story that verse of rajm was abrogated or missing, you are insulting Quran. That's the implication.


Stories can not sit in judgement over Quran. Hukm of Rajm is for yahud and nasara. Not Muslims

OjukwuWarBird:
Just pray that it is not true because, if it is true, then the war Buhari is looking for, he will get it and this time around the prediction by the US that Nigeria will breakup in 2015 will come to past even though a little bit late than the expected year

No stupid war will happen. You guys are terrorists. I was watching his short video he made perhaps, in London where he threatened Nigerian govt with violence. This was long before he became notorious terrorist. This is considered treason.

If you make violence threat against USA, especially as a US citizen, you will be declared missing just like Kanu's brother is doing now. Fed would pick you up to a secret location of no return. And no damn thing anymore can do about it.

You see what happened to former cia Edward Snowden, if not that he sought refuge in Russia, he would be dead by now or behind solitary confinement without trial and they would throw away his cell key. You people need to stop nonesense agitation. Otherwise you will forever be notorious IPOB terrorists.

International community ko, local community ni. TRASH!

Hibrahym:
Triggered! Of Course u are a Sufi! I thought u repented. Gosh! u still in that thing?
By the way are u angry at him not being a Scholar or a Sufi or both?

Brainwash?
- Evidence of brainwashing? Why don't ask why is he a Sufi and why Sufism is at the height of his problem

What's this rubbish has to do with this thread?.

Afalataqilun?

Hibrahym:
Islaamic Studies of Nigerian Universities dey worry you!

IRRELEVANT

Hibrahym:
1. Epistle? U don't say that regarding the words of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم), except u are a Sufi anyway!
2. I mean u are a Sufi, u can deny anything out of the blue, it's ur Mantra!
3. Before or after Islaamic Law?
I mean this happened in Madinah, so was it Democracy they were using?

4. What do u even mean by Sharia Law? I don't think u understand what u are saying!
One of the Difference between a Prophet and a Messanger is that Messangers comes with a new Sharia. Thus Prophet(صلى الله عليه وسلم) automically is with Sharia since day one of the message.
There are some part that can only implemented by the Govt, which they did when they had one in Madinah.
And there are parts that can be implemented in the homes and does not necessarily require a Govt enforcement.

Yes "sir", I don't know which Sharia u are talking about again!

It is upon u to provide evidence of abrogation

don't waste my time please. Isn't obvious you have no idea what you talking about?. You are asking me which sharia? shows that you didn't even read to understand what this thread is about. You already made up your mind to attack sufis. Goodluck buddy.

When your read and grasp the msg, then come back to refute. You have a good day. And don't forget to provide evidence that sharia law (Islamic) has always been implemented from day one according to you

What Are They Doing?

https://www.facebook.com/DeadliestTeach/videos/1456781844415788/?hc_ref=ARQezxwNYXwSDppId8rDBMvWC7UEMqKLVZLoDcTkQr1YjjV7R0kQ8wt52A9o1UBw6i0

Finally?

https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10155273034546939/?fref=mentions

Sissie:
He probably said something not in line with the Saudi authority.

Some sheikhs who didn't support the Qatar ban has been jailed.

This Saudi political wing self, they got serious problems. I guess this is an attempt to silence them.

.

.

ShaheedBinAliyu:
YEAH

Well, he is your "kafir" not Allah's kafir

ShaheedBinAliyu:
Laughing. . how many times will i post the imam "problem" . . read the posts i posted earlier

So in a nutshell, imam Abu Haneefa(ra) died a kafir?

AlBaqir:
Empir.ee, its like you are right. This is how the idiot AhluSunnah sounds like. His phone can never access anything

# Ogbeni shaheedBinAliyu, are you AhluSunnah in yet another monicker?

# Anyway, trust me, I have exhausted my opinions searching your references as you've put it to no avail. What is the Hadith all about perhaps I can easily access it via subject of their content?

I was about to quote him to reconfirm it is him where he said "laughing". I think he is trying to distance himself from his previous monikers.

ShaheedBinAliyu:
CHECK THE TIRA I POSTED THEIR NAMES. . talk on the other 3 bida of abu hanifa . .forget the issue of quran as creation of ALLAH

it is ur thread. Post Imam's 'problems' and we will see to it

ShaheedBinAliyu:
@Em.piree . .he repented on his speech of quran as creation of ALLAH ...Probably you quoted his repented speech

What i quoted seem like he believed what you alleged?. Did you read what those scholars said including Imam Tayimmiya?. There was nothing like he repented. Besides, you didnt even quote any scholarly reference to back ur point. It is your word against scholars

Imam Abu Hanifa(ra) never believed Qur'an was created. He believed Quran was the word of Allah. You must have quoted bogus articles.


As regards Imaam Abu Haneefah may Allaah have mercy upon him his view is the same as the view of Ahlus-Sunnah, that the Quran is the speech of Allaah that was revealed and not created; and it was not confirmed from him that he said what is contrary to this. The book Usool Ad-Deen ‘Inda Abu Haneefah authored by Dr. Muhammad al-Khamees, reads:

“Imaam Abu Haneefah's belief in the Quran is the belief of the Imaams of the salaf (righteous predecessors) of this nation, and this is what was authentically proven by the Quran and the Sunnah, that the Quran was revealed and not created; it began from Him and to Him it will go back. These are the words of the Imaam quoted from al-Fiqh al-Akbar: 'The Quran is not created;' and he said in Al-Wasiyyah, 'We acknowledge that the Quran is the speech of Allaah, and it is not created.


I have not come, in the books that are attributed to him, across a statement that is contrary to this view.

Based on the above, the scholars, such as Imaam Ahmad and Bishr ibn Al-Waleed, At-Tahaawy, Al-Laalakaa’i, Ibn Taymiyyah, and Ibn Hajar, have consecutively ignored the narrations that say that Abu Haneefah said that the Quran was created, and they decisively asserted that the view of Abu Haneefah is that he did not say that the Quran was created.

At-Tahaawi also held the same view, as he, when clarifying the belief of Abu Haneefah and his two companions, said, “They were convinced that the Quran is the speech of Allaah in reality and that it is not created.” At-Tahaawi did not refer to something that is contrary to this.” [Summarized]

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=299545

BUT HE IS ACTUALLY A NON MUSLIM.

al-Nasafi in his commentary entitled Tafsir al-Madarik (1:276) and al-Qasimi in his Mahasin al-ta'wil (6:1921) similarly say: "There has come to you a Light from Allah: this is the light of Muhammad, Blessings and peace upon him, because one is guided by him. Similarly he has been called a lamp (siraj)."

Imam Ahmad al-Sawi similarly said in his supercommentary on Tafsir al-Jalalayn (1:258): "There has come to you a Light from Allah: that Light is the Prophet, Blessings and peace upon him. He was named a light because he enlightens the sight and guides it to the correct path; and also because he is the root of every light whether material or spiritual." We will return to the latter statement below insha Allah.

Sayyid Mahmud al-Alusi in his commentary entitled Tafsir Ruh al-Ma`ani (6:97) similarly says: "There has come to you a Light from Allah: that is, an immense light which is the Light of Lights and the Elect among all Prophets, Blessings and peace upon him."



allahumma salli ala sayyidina muhammadin nur wa ala aliy

What Is Meant By Light (Sura 5:51)


Qadi `Iyad said: "He [the Prophet] was named a Light because of the clarity of his case and the fact that his Prophecy was made manifest, and also because of the illumination of the hearts of the believers and the knowers of Allah with what he brought."


Suyuti in Tafsir al-Jalalayn, Fayruzabadi in the Tafsir Ibn `Abbas entitled Tanwir al-miqbas (p. 72), Shaykh al-Islam, Imam Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, the Mujaddid of the sixth century, in his Tafsir al-kabir (11:189), Qadi Baydawi in his Tafsir entitled Anwar al-tanzil, al-Baghawi in his Tafsir entitled Ma`alim al- tanzil (2:23), Imam al-Shirbini in his Tafsir entitled al-Siraj al- munir (p. 360), the author of Tafsir Abi Sa`ud (4:36), and Thana'ullah Pani Patti in his Tafsir al-mazhari, (3:67) said: "What is meant by a Light is: Muhammad, Blessings and peace upon him."


Ibn Jarir al-Tabari in his Tafsir jami` al-bayan (6:92) said: "There has come to you a Light from Allah: He means by the Light: Muhammad, Blessings and peace upon him, by means of whom Allah has illuminated the truth, brought forth Islam, and obliterated idolatry. Therefore he (the Prophet) is a light for those who have been enlightened by him and by his exposition of truth."


al-Khazin in his Tafsir (2:28) similarly says: "There has come to you a Light from Allah means: Muhammad, Blessings and peace upon him. Allah called him a light for no other reason than that one is guided by him (Muhammad) in the same way that one is guided by light in darkness."

ShaheedBinAliyu:
Light (nur) according to the verse means KNOWLEDGE.

"KNOWLEDGe". Thats how you simply understood it?. Fine. Ain't have no problem with that. So stop thinking when they say nabi is light means he was created from light. Thats nonsense. Angels are created from light. There are too many ahadith and tafsir that detail this issue of nur beyond just "knowledge" as you put it. But i rather just leave it AS IS. I dont want to drag this

the "great quran tafsir" u quoted is a sufi. . saying rasul can make law into the deen. .

you have reference for this?. Allah is Law Giver. What nabi(saw) implemented was inspired to him(saw). So i have no idea what u talking about. And if it is true, you most likely misunderstood it the way you misunderstood "nur"

"ALLAH SAID IF RASUL DOES MAKE ANY LAW INTO THE DEEN, HE WOULD CUT OFF HIS NECK VEINS" ITS IN QURAN. .AND YOUR HULAMA GAOUSU TAFSIR MAN SAYS RASUL CAN MAKE LAW INTO THE DEEN COZ HE IS THE LIGHT.

evidence please?

. . .mind you, making law into the deen is for ALLAH alone. check tafsir ibn khatir. . IF RASUL WAS LIGHT(physical), 1ST THING CREATED AND OTHER THINGS CREATED FROM HIM, HE WOULD HAVE MENTIONED IT TO SAHABAHS.

Bold, see what i am saying?. You just confirmed you are one of those literalists. I have said that in my ealier post:

it is often at this point that those who oppose this view believe from some erroneous conviction that we deem the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) as a non-human. This is indeed a strange and gross accusation, as those who claim that he was not a human, have clearly ventured out of the bounds of Islam, and have entered into kufr. The belief of Ahlus Sunnah wa'l Jamaah is that our Noble Prophet Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) is both Nur and Human.

You made the same claim that islamqa website made; goes to show that the way you think is incredible. That's why i am weary of literal lectures and interpretations from some scholars.

ShaheedBinAliyu,

I have even made mistake. i should have first asked you what you meant or understood by nur so as to "diagnose" your view.

ShaheedBinAliyu:
1. GOOD TO HEAR THAT YOU DIDNT CLAIM HE IS ALLAH 2. still waiting for the proof from qualified muslim personel (sunni) on nur like u claimed. . and also on the "light as 1st thing created and other things created from him . . go and get ur proof and post it ea. . .waiting

It is really disheartening to hear people speak like this. Shows the level of understanding you got. And it is not only you. So now this is why you dnt understand when sufis scholars speak considering ur earlier post where u said "they even said nabi is Allah". Really sad.

Same thing islamqa website did. I don't understand why you people think negative. it is often at this point that those who oppose this view (of nur) believe from some erroneous conviction that we deem the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) as a non-human. This is indeed a strange and gross accusation, as those who claim that he was not a human, have clearly ventured out of the bounds of Islam, and have entered into kufr. The belief of Ahlus Sunnah wa'l Jamaah is that our Noble Prophet Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) is both Nur and Human.

Bcus they said nabi is light, so it means he was created from light? chai. Islamqa website made this accusation that it implies that they claim nabi muhammad was created from light. subhanAllah. But sunni ulama never said this. Why do you people think like this?. Nabi was human but not like u and i. I have come to realise that we cant translate Quran. NEVER! we can only explain the best way we can.


Some of sunni claims accordingly Quran


The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) is the Light of Allah, something a believer can say because the Qur’an affirms it in the verse.



يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ قَدْ جَاءَكُمْ رَسُولُنَا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُمْ كَثِيرًا مِّمَّا كُنْتُمْ تُخْفُونَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَيَعْفُواْ عَن كَثِيرٍ قَدْ جَاءَكُم مِّنَ اللّهِ نُورٌ وَ كِتَابٌ مُّبِينٌ


"O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book (Qur’an 5:15).


The great Mufasir of Quran Allama Alusi (rah) writes under this ayah:


عظيم وهو نور الأنوار والنبـي المختار صلى الله عليه وسلم

Translation: He is the great Light of Lights (Nur ul Anwaar) and Nabi al-Mukhtar (i.e. given power by Allah to make Laws) [Al-Alusi in Ruh al Ma’ni under 5:15]


There is a notable explanation among Ahl al-Sunna which ascribes the meaning of the Prophet to both the Light and the Book. al-Sayyid al-Alusi said in Ruh al-ma`ani: "I do not consider it far-fetched that what is meant by both the Light and the Manifest Book is the Prophet, the conjunction being in the same way as what was said by al-Jubba'i [in that that both the Light and the Book were the Qur'an]. There is no doubt that all can be said to refer to the Prophet. Perhaps you will be reluctant to accept this from the viewpoint of expression (`ibara); then let it be from the viewpoint of subtle allusion (ishara)." [Tafsir Ruh al-Ma`ani, Volume 006, Page No. 97-8]


So you should understand what it means is that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was Nur in the sense that he was Hidayah to the whole of Mankind, nt just muslims as you said, and not that he was literally nur plus human being.

ShaheedBinAliyu:
Tawbah 128. rasul is mercy to the muslim nation. . WHERE IS IT THAT HE IS A LIGHT? 1ST THING CREATED BY ALLAH? THAT OTHER THINGS WERE CREATED FROM THAT LIGHT? . . . . Sunni scholars. . just quote what those KnowleGable sunni scholars said concerning the NUR and PROPHET MUHAMMAD

Tawba 128 i quoted was in response to ur post here

ShaheedBinAliyu:
even in some of their songs, ALLAH attributes are given to him

Allah's Attribute is Rahman, yet He shared this attribute with His prophet(saw). So that means nabi is God cus of that? So now you are looking for "muhammad is light" when ur post itself is clear enough t answer you?

ShaheedBinAliyu:
All he said is part of aqeedah of sufi. am suprised he did not finish it, maybe he is scared. its this explanation he did that they do use to say prophet muhammad is ALLAH. That is why most of them do direct what they should ask from ALLAH to him. even in some of their songs, ALLAH attributes are given to him

senseless post. Allah himself gave His attributes to nabi(saw) in Tawba 128 but doesnt make him God.

ShaheedBinAliyu:
Rasul is human, a messenger, a mercy to the world. But "light"? nah. . it has no proof in quran or hadith

the whole sunni world believe nabi(saw) is nur. You are innovator and go against ijma

Raintaker:
But which kind people go wan collect debt from a dead man.

They do have the right to collect their money back by Law. EMOTIONS aside. But in situation like this. i think many God loving people would let go of the money and count their loss depending on relationship to the deceased.

As for me, there is someone who owes me money right now since 2010 and i dont and wont forgive it bcus she purposely said she owes me nothing. Possibility exist that when she dies i may never know. So let her face the consequences in the grave. Even if i get to know before she's buried i will demand her family to pay me back. You gotta let some people learn the hardest way