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watever:
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watever:
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_{signing off now, babe.}

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nferyn:

[quote author=Genial link=topic=31314.msg722484#msg722484 date=1164490117]Christianity does not deny the validity of rationality. It declares the precedence of faith.

And thereby effectively limiting freedom

[/quote]Yes, much in the same way marriage limits freedom.

And it also declares, by fiat, the validity of faith as a means of arriving at truth without even trying to establish it's epistemological validity.

I do not see that it does so. If logic does not recognise the spiritual, how do you expect a spiritual event to have epistemological validity?

Quote from: Genial on Today at 10:14:06 PM
The truth of existence.

You have no valid epistemological system to arrive at that statement when basing your discourse on faith. Can you show how exactly faith can possibly arrive at truth without being self-contradictory?

And how do you conclude that I base my discourse on faith? Truth is independent.

If you cannot determine the characteristics of a phenomenon, that what sets it apart from the non-phenomenon, it has effectively no meaning.

I refer to my previous post:

In the sense that validity is dependent on interpretation, its validity is questionable where it is not understood, but inability to correctly interpret a phenomenon does not render it completely devoid of meaning.

I think you missed the point here. The issue is not the existence of the phenomenon, but its interpretation, and hence its perceived validity.

ornament

gly

I regret that I shall soon have to forgo the pleasure of your company, ladies. It is with utmost humility that I submit that it has been my honour to be with you.

@Ika6
psssssssssssssssttttttttt          

nferyn:
The moment that faith based view touches on the material realm, it needs to follow the rules of that realm. In that regard, it may not be possible to validate or invalidate it, but it becomes completely devoid of meaning and validity in this world as it does not conform to it's rules

In the sense that validity is dependent on interpretation, its validity is questionable where it is not understood, but inability to correctly interpret a phenomenon does not render it completely devoid of meaning.

nferyn:
That's exactly what I was trying to point out. By denying the validity of rationality, it is denying freedom.

Christianity does not deny the validity of rationality. It declares the precedence of faith.

Any valid intellectual effort a priory requires rationality, therefore faith equals intellectual laziness.

In this context, perhaps. But Christianity, while not denying the value of intellectual effort, recognises its limitations. It is first and foremost spiritual, not intellectual.

How then would you define reality?

The truth of existence.

That presupposes that I'm not one of the "errbodi" you're referring to, seeing that I've not left you. Now I'm hurt.

_{Don't make a sad face, Ika6. It doesn't become you.}

nferyn:
Nobody has been able to explain the concept of faith as it having any epistomological value, except as stading outside rationality and thus outside discourse. It is only relevant to those taking already an a-priori position and already subscribing to the concept of faith. It is completely self-referential, irrational and void of logical validity.

Perhaps. But if we agree that faith is outside rationality, why should it be expected to have "any epistemological value", or indeed logical validity, in the way you refer to it? Logic presupposes that things operate according to specific laws, and so does not provide for phenomena that do not obey these laws. In that respect, logic is unqualified to explain faith and cannot be used to either validate or invalidate it.

micron

sla

mukina2:
ok tyrex am out of here soon too

@my king

@watever till later
@nilla study hard girl . .i'll be praying for you

Sleep tight, princess. May you be transported in the clouds of bliss as you experience heavenly rest_{on your pillows!}