₦airaland Forum

casualobserver:
FACTS and FIGURES:


1. The landing price of PMS was always higher than the N600 selling price in Nigeria. Some say the landing price for NNPC was more than N1,000 when they were the sole importer.

2. This meant due to the removal of official subsidy, NNPC had been absorbing the shortfall. That practice had resulted in huge financial losses for NNPC and a situation where It could no longer “subsidize” PMS in the country having racked up $6b in debts.

3. DRL had been ref8ning diesel and supplying diesel to the local market at the free market unsubsidized rate of N900/ liter. It therefore doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that any PMS from Dangote at the same parameters (imported crude) would be +/-5% the price of their diesel.

4: NNPC has no intention of absorbing fuel subsidies anymore so the PR battle begins

PR battle

1: the Nigerian public are largely ignorant, there are those who feel NNPC are crooks, they are those who believe Dangote is an exploitative monopolist. If you are able to successfully blame one of them for the inevitable increase there is no shortage of unthinking brain dead Nigerians who will buy into your narrative.

2: there are those who believe that Somehow Dangote refinery coming on steam will REDUCE the price of PMS.

3: the informed know that PMS prices have to go up, the battle now is a battle for who will take the blame in the eyes of the public.

4: NNPC published the price of PMS from Dangote in order to make the gullible public think that it is Dangote responsible for high petrol [b][/b]prices. It isn’t, the reason the prices have gone up is because NNPC are no longer absorbing subsidies. If anything Dangote’s price is lower than the landing price Of PMS imported by NNPC because there are no shipping costs etc.

5: Dangote responds by saying NNPC is being “mischievous” but interestingly do not publish any contrary figures because while DRL PMS is actually cheaper than previous Imported NNPC PMS, the figures NNPC published are correct. The real issue is that politically Dangote cannot afford to say PMS is high is because subsidy has been removed. They don’t want to be the one to say it.

NNPC simply used the opportunity of the coming on stream of DRL to finally end any back door subsidy and pass the fallout on to Dangote by publishing the figures.

It is a PR battle based on gullible citizens who do not understand the mechanics of PMS pricing.

IMHO neither have done anything wrong. NNPC cannot afford and therefore is no longer subsidizing PMS and DRL is simply selling at market price. NNPC played a good hand by publishing the price and boxing them into a corner to which DRL can’t really respond.


This is not about the facts and figures, it is about who will take the blame in the eyes of the public of the increase In PmS that has come to stay. It is a PR exercise! It is about eeediots like geometrix arguing and disturbing me “It is Dangote’s faul”, “it is NNpc’s fault” but in reality when it comes to the bottom line it is a win-win for both the NNPC and DRL as both of them are happy with the pricing and the govt is happy subsidy is now truly gone!

It is about having simpletons and eeediots like Geometrix distracted and arguing over whose fault it is while quietly subsidy is removed totally.

Read your paragraph 5 very well and cure yourself the deficiency of assimilation.
My argument and first instance of engaging you was not of who is right or wrong between NNPC and Dangote but on the opaqueness of public accountability as it relates to the landing cost being brandied by NNPC.
Like you posited it may be more than 600 while some say it is 1000.
My argument was that Dangote can sell cheaper than the landing cost NNPC is telling us but you went wayhire with your unnecessary rant and supposedly half baked knowledge..but I know really blame i know your kind
Secondly in your last paragraph,you said subsidy is gone finally..Did you confer with the President on this?
Because he was the one that previously announced that subsidy is gone but NNPC was still paying for it through the backdoor.

casualobserver:
You are clearly a M0ron. You like many of your ilk clearly speak English but lack English comprehension.

You woke me up with a post trying to rubbish my estimate of Dangote’s pms price. As it happens NNPC released a breakdown of the price of DRL PMS confirming my estimate.

Instead of you to crawl into your corner, you start talking nonsense.

When someone sees the price template released by NNPC and is then still asking “is it from DR?”, one has confirmation of one’s prior conclusions that one is dealing with a typical product of the failed education system in the country.
[b][/b]
There is nothing in the Dangote statement that refutes the prices released by NNPC. You clearly have a problem with English. Obviously your father is your mother’s brother, genetic disorders and brain defects are a consequence of such procreative abominations of nature.

Consider this my last response to you as sadly Nairaland does not have an ignore button.


For the record, many of you are confused because of the pandemic of English speakers who lack English comprehension in the country. You read but do not understand. The price released by NNPC is the price for PMS refined from imported Dangote crude. The price for Naira to Naira crude to PMS swap has not been released because the supply of that crude to DRL has not started. Dangote’s statement was deliberately ambiguous. NNPC stated the price categorically in an OFFICIAL statement, Dangote did not…why?

Having poor English comprehension is one thing, having a low IQ is another. Put the two together and we get the buffooonery that is you and your ilk. You are the one who failed to understand the Dangote statement. All they had to do instead of hiding behind carefully crafted words was to release the figures if it was different from what NNPC stated. On this occasion Dangote was being mischievous because they know their audience are dumb….people like you. “Misleading” is not the same thing as “false”. Dangote can claim they aren’t selling to NNPC at N898 because they aren’t selling to them in Naira. DRL is merely playing on your intelligence. Why didn’t DRL say the $0.55/liter is misleading? All NNPC did was convert 0.55c to Naira. Idiots like you are too dumb to understand.

And by the way it is not “sticked” to it, it is “stuck” to it. We have to teach them English as we communicate with them!
This conversation which you chose to disturb me with this morning has nothing to do with 2%. It is simply a question of my estimate of price of imported Dangote PMS based on their selling price of N900 for diesel. The statement validated my est8mate and your post this morning was an attempt to rubbish it which you failed.

Goood bye.

It's obvious you are as an idiot clearly. So Dangote rebuttal is misleading and ambiguous. Continue with your self propelled deceit and be claiming intelligent..

Acidosis:
Are you saying the church should lie?

Everyone seems to have issues when churches offer certain paid services? Why is that? We need to change our mentality.

I read your submission to dogedfighter. I don't have a problem with the church offering paid services at all but I need to ask you a very personal question. What's the benefit of one being sold out for church like this pastor in question and even in death,the church cannot sacrifice a million naira to bury him in a location that could be his dying wish.
And generally what and what are the right reasons/expectations as people go to church?

casualobserver:
Dangote PMS has been confirmed @ N898 based on imported crude!

Is this not confirmation your education was a waste of time and resources? I had no access to NNPC or DRL info and yet I was able to give an accurate estimate. If you use your brain, these things are not rocket science. The problem is most of you have no brains and the rest refuse to use it.

Do you not feel like an eeediot now? When people more intelligent than you are talking, shut up and learn!

I told you stop disturbing me with unintelligent comments

M0r0n!,,

You are actually the slowpoke and a nitwit for not deciphering the context of argument on a public space.
You googled 2% margin for every refinery including Dangote refinery and sticked to it as if you their financial consultant .
I ask you what if Dangote decides to sell at cost price to make sure he secures the Nigerian crude...you keep blabbing that the margin is sacrosanct.
I saw how the other guy avoided you with your half baked education your are flaunting. Ode!
The 898 NNPC quoted, was it from Dangote Refinery?
Haven't you read the rebuttal from Dangote that they sold a way cheaper price to NNPC?

Acidosis:
RCCG has over 200,000 pastors. No organisation in the world (not even the Nigerian government) can offer free burial grounds for 200,000 people. This is just the number of pastors o. Now add pastors' wives, their children, deacons/deaconness,elders, etc. If every RCCG member decides to request a space for their loved ones, the entire RCCG camp won't be enough.

I understand this your position, but why not tell the family that there is no space available at the moment than to request for money from them.
And remember he was a pastor in the fold...

casualobserver:
I don’t like being constantly disturbed by people who add no value to this topic and do not want to learn. I have said all I need to say, Leave me in peace.

If you see petrol at a price you like buy, if you don’t like the price you see don’t buy. Nobody is forcing you.

Mr I too know, you are witnessing the drama about the pricing between NNPC and Dangote. You were so confident in your ignorance that the price of Dangote petrol must be 850-900.
We do not know the actual price now but from the press release from Dangote,what they sold to NNPC is way cheaper than NNPC import and the crude used was the one they imported.
Business processes and pricing are not cast in stone no matter the margins and the path to profitability differs..

ALTERNATEID:
That’s a big lie. There is no law that says he can’t sell to marketers directly. NNPC made it clear some weeks ago that he can sell to marketers directly if he wants.

The NNPC and by extension the Nigerian Government still retains the right to who sells petrol to Nigerians.
Forget about law, if Dangote do more than he is doing now ,the establishment might frustrate him.
And mind you he needs the Nigerian crude as a base even though he maybe supplanting it with import from other places..

casualobserver:
That is the global average margin for refineries all over the world. If you sought knowledge instead of making typical emotional comments you would have come across this piece of enlightenment.

Rest mister!
You quoting global average and specifically 2% for Dangote as if you work there. What if his is less than 2%?

casualobserver:
1: Why would Dangote refinery sell at cost price? Did you donate money to build his refinery?
2: his margin is 2%, he has interest payments on loans why should he sell at cost?
3: even at cost price, the price of petrol is not N600. The price of diesel is an indication of the market price of petrol. +/- 5%. If Dangote diesel ex refinery is N900 then petrol is between N850-950 ex refinery. Add logistics/transport costs + retailer margin and you have the real price of petrol.

If you don’t like, it you can find your own petrol. Dangote can source his crude abroad and sell his products abroad.

The solution to the problem of fuel price lies in the exchange rate. Nigerians should stop buying imported products so the dollar rate can go down. Only then will the price of petrol go down.

I can hear you financial advisor to Dangote refinery. You even know his margin is 2%...

casualobserver:
1: The price of petrol is set universally, everybody buys petrol at the same price.
2: What determines the price of petrol in a country is a) added taxes e.g uk b) subsidy e.g Libya and Nigeria c ) actual market price e.g Ghana, Benin, Cameroun. D) your exchange rate
3: The profit margin on refineries globally is less than 2%, they make money on volume.
Dangote is not a charity.

Are you saying the price of crude or petrol?
They are other condensate of crude that a refinery though not a charity can attain profitability even if it sells petrol at cost price

casualobserver:
Everybody is blaming Kyari but you are asking Kyari to sell petrol at less than landing costs. The problem to me is not Kyari, the problem is the landing cost of petrol either imported or via Dangote is more than the price acceptable to the public. The government has removed subsidy. So who is paying the difference? If NNPC is paying the difference then they will go broke as is now the case.

The problem is not Kyari but political interference in NNPC.

Hello sir can you honestly defend the price being quoted as landing cost by NNPC? Leave matter, there is no public accountability in Nigeria?
I can bet Dangote can sell way below the landing price they are quoting if they would liberalize the market

[quote author=sslcrypt post=131972146]Beger can't be a choice, a debtor is subject to a creditor. They didn't force the loan down our throats, it was the federal government that took out a loan on the back of zero economic activities. The country isn't generating revenue but yet chose to proceeding. Tinibu now trying to widen the tax bracket will lead to further death of the country because majority of the populace are living below poverty line. The wealthy that should be taxed more are none existent. The stubbornness of tinibu is all by design, because look at inflation to me is a form of indirect compulsory tax. It's a total mess because the ministry of finance have no fiscal policy, the CBN have no monetary policy. So no coordination at all, it feels the nation is on autopilot. [/quote
I wanted to get angry with your first paragraph of defenses. Lol
But your last paragraph and submissions calmed my nerves and am smiling now.There is no fiscal and monetary policy... my Gee

sslcrypt:
You can't eat your cake and have it at same time. That loan contract buhari took against petroleum products is coming back to bite us. The government propaganda have totally shut out this angle to the public. The cash meant to purchase from dangote must be channeled into part of the loan deals called futures contract. Meaning we must import processed crude from the entities tied to those contracts. This the only way those countries and their businesses can redeem their loan and interest on it. The middle men facilitating this part of the deal are stationed in Dubai, so they buy at low value, refine and sell it back to us for profit. While some percentage of the finished products goes to nations like Malaysia, Indonesia, China, india and couple of others.

So you mean a sovereign nation cannot renegotiate the terms of the loan versus future contract?
Even as their economy is collapsing because of skyrocketing energy prices which they have under their ground?

AntiMarxist:
Because the state has the powers to arrest , detain and interrogate any one engaged in treasonable felony and terrorism.


He should have cleared his name if innocent instead of trying to sneak out of the country to avoid the invitation.

This is bad optics and when the DSS takes him to court seeking a remand order to conclude their investigation , no judge will object this after he refused to honour their invitation and was caught sneaking out of the country to the same destination nation the prime suspect a Briton is from.


By the way NLC President does not enjoy immunity .

Because he goes about the title doesn't confer on him similar immunity as the executive.

I heard he has been released on bail, someone that was engaged in terrorism and treasonable felony according to you.
Do you mind to share more light. Does it mean that the intelligence/evidence against him was not water tight, maybe na speculation things ?
Or maybe he was traveling to go and destroy the evidence against him?

AntiMarxist:
These Marxists think the title President of NLC confers immunity from criminal investigation and arrest.

You are not really wise... Why can't they detain him on arrival after his engagement without muddling the narratives with the international community? Or is he running away?

Please o! Someone should clear me on this! How much is Nigeria daily crude oil output? I thought they said it's in the region of 1.3 millions barrel per day. Does it mean that we are no longer using a part of the oil to pay for debts that NNPCL can supply up to 30million barrels to Dangote?

OMBIIGA:
What a systemic alignment of price of PMS with the roll out of PMS from Dangote refinery.
There is God oh !

What Nigeria needs now is stability of the prices both petroleum products and forex. Even if is higher than we anticipated...so that businesses and individuals can plan and project,FDI's can come in
2. Stimulation of economic activities..
If they can achieve this in the short term, everything would be fine

loswhite:
This middle men were they created recently? Don’t we have these middle men in the time of president good luck Jonathan?

There has always been around but the economy was more liquid then that their margins wasn't felt by many. I can guarantee you if the economy and cash flow in many homes today is on the right path, people won't be complaining even if cement is sold higher than it is being sold now.

loswhite:
What determines prices?

There could be a lot of factors and cost implications from company to company. Personally I know a dealer from Benue Cement bought over by Dangote .
They get these products cheaper together with attractive rebates from the cement companies but these middlemen are the one that fixes the price of cement not the cement companies...
And as a company you can't do without them,some of them have the capacity of evacuating tons of products from the cement companies with cash...

lindabettyive post=131[quote author=loswhite:
He was just playing politics…He never intended to sell for 3500 but just to make people see him as better than Dangote because he knows the people in his country will just jump on it and sing his praises

Why do you say so? Do you know that that there is a new cement in the market by Alhaji Mangal... I can tell you categorically that the price is cheaper from the company as a new product that entered the market but it is being sold almost the same with dangote. The dealers are just like another set of cabals.

Your reasons are well noted on how dangote cant sell cheaper but look at ai another way;
Petrol is not the only condensate from crude oil refining!
Dangote can decide to loose money in petrol but make his profit from others condensates; thats double play strategy
And i can bet you Dangote wants to sell cheap because the landing cost of above 1k for fuel we are told, there is no verifiable data for nigerians to ascertain if it is true or not.
quote author=Asonaijaaso post=131199481]

Dangote will not sell PMS at a cheaper rate. Ask me why ?
He gets free limestone, free land, free import waivers, tax concessions on cement manufacturing.....but cement prices are not cheaper than other manufacturers who pay for all these things.

If he buys crude oil at market prices, he will definitely sell petrol at market prices, because his margins are even narrower than than his cement business.
Nigerians think Dangote will subsidize petrol.
No he will not !![/quote]

I can see your intelligence from afar! Why did NNPCL agreed on owning 20% of the share of the company at inception? And reneged just of recent? I can tell you the initial agreement of NNPCL with Dangote was out patritism, to ensure energy security but anything happening now is because of vested interest which is not good for Nigeria energy security.

I can see a lot of ignorance.

Those who can read are blaming NNPCL and FG

Dangote is a business man and he has no intention of subsidizing anything or helping anyone.

Has he ever sold Cement cheaper than Large and BUA?

That Monopoly thing is real. NNPCL knows what they're saying about Dangote.[/quote]

What is actually wrong with monopoly? American economy is built on monopolies starting from the time of Carnegie,Rothschild; even at the moment Facebook,Tesla you name it.
The challenge with Nigerian government operators/regulators is that their personal interests superceeds the national interest.
Big nations give subsidies and bail out when necessary to private companies whose operations drive their economy and Nigeria is experiencing high rated inflation at the moment due to energy cost, what is the essence of this dragging between Nigerian government officials and Dangote?

[How do you think it is only ajaero that would make that decision?
They are other labour leaders across the states yhat would agree on any amount. If they later agree on 61 000 and were able to convince those that they are representing based on the arguements from the govt side...
We have a nation to build and seeing people call out labour movements as if their role is to ground goverment is uncalled for
moquote author=azeezmth post=130285491]Ajaero or whatever his name is together with his predecessors only pretend as if they are truly fighting for us especially with the press only for them to go behind and make a deal with the govt. Even this one the FG & NLC are just acting along a script only to come out later and say they agreed on 70 or 75k when we should be having nothing less than a 100k.[/quote]

[I understand you bro but two wrongs dont make a right. Me i think the labour movement has been the most magnamicious but it seems the govt is not yet in tune with what is happening in the country .
quote author=Judolisco post=130284800]did d government settle down before rushing to remove subsidy without making any necessary provisions?[/quote]

[So you want labour to strike against a government that is just comimg in without giving the new govt time to settle down?
quote author=Judolisco post=130283522]government is already taking you people for a ride with NLC.... NLC no go strike when subsidy was removed... They waited for a year before going on strike.... D NLC executives only go on strike when they're broke.... FG go soon settle d executives dis week and una eyes go clear[/quote]

[If you have been following this negotiations, the Government is the one that hasn't been realistic. First of all the private sector minimum wage is always take a cue from the one paid by the public sector(emphasis on minimum wage)
The 615000 demanded by labour,everyone knows it is not realistic but at the same time the government should offer something that is livable bearing in mind that the inflation in the country is a product of their inconsistent policies.
IMO the government is not coordinated. Removing the subsidy partly brought this but a good and tactical team head like we see in football matches would always be able to read the game and make amends that even if you loose the match everyome would be happy
The key thing is that Nigerians needs food and sustenace. What is the Government doing about it and how are they communicating it to the populace at least to inspire hope?
(quote author=phemray post=130280127]


Workers minimum wage increment is fine and necessary but we need to be serious and realistic in our request. People that are more productive and result oriented are found in private sector and did not collect 600k as minimum wage. So NLC asking that for example, a cleaner or gateman be paid 600k minimum means directors in level 15 or 16 will be paid in millions just to awarding contracts and using Thier offices to steal. Anyway,NLC/TUC should tell government and private sector where to see the money to pay over 20million workers. But we should be ready to buy bag of rice at >600k since its price is always proportional to minimum wage.[/quote]

It doesnt work that way bro. The goal is to have a new minimum wage for workers signed into law as the 30000 currently obtained and the law backing it has expired. Striking as an option is because your government is not honest,
They have been dragging this negotiation as a tool yet it is not enough reason to just deviate from the mandate before them and strike without sufficient reason

uote author=ahamonyeka post=130275460]peopke have seen them as useless set of people already[/quote]

The man grouse wasn't about the disconnection o but the EEDC insistence on cutting and going away with his wires, probably he bought the wires himself.
The mans action was razz but does EDCC have the right to go away with wires they didn't provide?

You are an idiot if you can't answer a simple question? Do you work in legit to know how they collate their data?

Namaster:
You are a VERY dumb boy. You realise that, right?

A business is NOT publicly listed in any stock market YET Legit.ng values the Founder at an EVEN billion dollars based on his ownership of that business.

How did they get the data?

Idioots like you are ALWAYS ready to believe and defend "trust-me-bro statistics" when you feel like it favours you.

So everyone whose business is not quoted on the stock exchange which is the basis of the Forbes list is not a billionaire?

Namaster:
OP is exhibiting EXTREME levels of dumbness.

Legit.ng, a Nigerian blog, pulled out figures from their asshole and OP is shovelling it down his throat like cheeseballs.

A businessman who is a USD billionaire would be on Forbes list. Not on a "bloggers" list.

I think that is the main thing.
real people that needs and transact with the dollar don't much care about the rate but for the rate to be predictable a kind of so that they would be able to make their bussiness projections.
or=laivwire post=129106235]
With the little I know, the Naira can depreciate once again but the FG will never let it reach those levels of #1,700 again.[/quote]