truthislight:

you dont know what the wilderness is?

Lol.

Start learning the truth.

How come yu didn't answer my question but you still have time for all this plenty stories??

afam4eva:
The bible was written for Christians so only Christians were being referred to in that passage.

Well. I was making sure u know wat u're saying cos wat u wrote was 'you believe to confess SPECIFICALLY to those we offend'

If u den say its only xtians. Does dat mean we can't offend non xtians?

afam4eva:
Men have the authority to forgive but not retain sin. By Men i think the bible was referring to Christians.

Who are the Apostles and who are the priest. Do you know that you have those powers that you accord to some people?

'Forgive us our sins AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO SIN AGAINST US'

Does this not mean that it's in the proportion of forgiveness u measure out that you also will be forgiven?

If that's what it means then invariably you can choose not to forgive and if you do that and its recognised by God himself then you have the power to retain sins though this would be used against you eventually. (Abuse of power).

In my opinion, this passage states the power to retain sin. But gives us a precaution that in exercising this power they'll be -ve effects.

I stand to be corrected if you think I'm wrong. And please no abuses. Just state ur case logically.

afam4eva:
I think what the bolded means is that we should confess our sins specifically to those we have wronged. For instance, if i steal from someone, i have to seek the person's forgiveness by confessing my deeds to the person.

What if the person you offended isn't a xtain? Does dat person also fall under the criteria of 'each other'

truthislight:

if it was not a straith forward thing it is because people like you wanted to add books that were not from the apostles and it was rejected.

Please answer this question,Who rejected it?

Aren't you guyz ashamed of yourselves? What's the crux of the matter 'arrogance' the protestants believe they know it all and they want to force their idea down everyone (mental/emotional and pysicological terrorism), while the catholics are trying not to loss their 'Pride' smh what a pity.

What are you all after? Heaven or hell?

I'm sure non of you read to argue in your various versions of the bible.

And for those stating that some other person is going to hell. Well you'd need to convince us if you're now God who determines people eternal destinations.

On a final note. The words of the bible is true. There'll be plenty surprises in heaven those who think they'll be there would be missing and those whom you think can't make it will be there. In the mean time I advise y'all to face your God, live holy lives and do all you can to enter God's kingdom.

There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. Morning good people

There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.

honeric01:

The issue here is what exactly? is there anything else Christ asked us as Christians to do apart he departed earth? of what purpose is our calling into him for?

I have answered your questions before, incase you are waiting for something else, nothing else is coming apart from the answer i gave you about the elders and when you're to consult them.



Predict and presume, is there any difference in my case? i presumed based on your past comments on this thread?

What is the title of this thread again because i can see that we are deviating.

And for the third time I didn't ask you about 'elders' I asked about the condition you put there. You're so big on 'quoting scripture' so I asked quote where its writen that "after you have prayed and God doesn't seem to be answering call elders" who you said could be 'anyone'and that is my q u've refused to answer.

James 5:14 :New International Version (©1984)
Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Are any of you sick? You should call for the elders of the church to come and pray over you, anointing you with oil in the name of the Lord.

I still didn't see your asertion of "after you have prayed and God doesn't seem to be answering call. There so

honeric01:

Hehehe, so because i predicted what you meant, now i am sinning? meaning predicting is now a sin? LOL you need more than this. trying to do God's work is sin but not when i feel i know the tides my fellow man is about taking.

I was not thinking for God, rather i was presuming for you and not God. spot the difference.

You didn't predict. You presumed. And that was born outa overzealousness which is the major source of the sin. The source is thesame jst that this time the target maybe different.

honeric01:



All these are faults finding, rather than handle the matter on ground.
Btw, commandment is different from commission. Go into the word and preach the gospel is our obligation as the light of the world. Jesus came to preach the gospel, same is expected of Christ-likes

There's nothing wrong with presuming, if there's, show me.

Lastly, you still didn't tell me what you meant by that statement.

Okay o. I've given presumption above.

I never said commandement and commission are thesame.

And Matthew 28:16-20 is known as The Great Commission and not 'greatest commission'.

You asked and I've answered yet you've not answered my own q. Hmm

honeric01:



All these are faults finding, rather than handle the matter on ground.
Btw, commandment is different from commission. Go into the word and preach the gospel is our obligation as the light of the world. Jesus came to preach the gospel, same is expected of Christ-likes

There's nothing wrong with presuming, if there's, show me.

Lastly, you still didn't tell me what you meant by that statement.

There is something wrong with presuming.

What befell the Israelites when, having reached the promised land, they attempted to fight against the Canaanites without God's consent?
"But they PRESUMED to go up unto the hilltop: nevertheless the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and Moses departed not out of the camp, Then the Amalekites came down, and the Canaanites which dwelt in that hill, and smote them, and discomfited them, even unto Hormah." Num. 14:44, 45.
How does God look upon presumption, as indicated by His dealing with ancient Israel?
"But the soul that doeth aught presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people." Num. 15

Mostly over zealousness is the major cause of the sin of Presumption. And its grave.

It was also the reason for Saul been dethroned.

David prayed against it too.
"Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me; then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression." Ps. 19:13.

I've only given you a quarter quotes. I expect you to find the rest.

honeric01:

I answered, read backward, they are all there.

my questions are also all in my previous posts.

I have but can't find it.

honeric01:



All these are faults finding, rather than handle the matter on ground.
Btw, commandment is different from commission. Go into the word and preach the gospel is our obligation as the light of the world. Jesus came to preach the gospel, same is expected of Christ-likes

There's nothing wrong with presuming, if there's, show me.

Lastly, you still didn't tell me what you meant by that statement.

I wasn't finding fault. Like you said you want to teach / learn. In teaching you need to pass the right info. Those statements were in erorr. Safe you say you're averse to corrections tho.

jes7:
Can u support your claims with the scriptures? Whether she sinned or not is not what matters here since she is not our standard. It is what Christ said that matters. Christ was not telling her something impossible when he told her to go and sin no more or do u think Christ did not know what he was saying?. What God wants from us is not a
remorse but genuine and absolute repentance, that was what differentiated between Peter and Judas. Peter repented and wept and returned to follow Christ but judas was only remorseful which could not produce any fruit but depression, discouragement and eventual suicide.

I did not make claims about the adultrous woman. I asked questions. Claims isn't thesame as queries.

Uncle/anty you can't be truly repenant if you're not remorseful personally I believe its part of the process. However, Mark 14:71(mark was unclear as to if peters tears was as a result of repentance/remorse). Jhn 18:27 (simply stated his denial no emotion or reaction)

truthislight:

i ask again, what is the value of this comment?

Dont you have any treasure from your store house to give out?

Must you comment?
*sigh*

What value have you added by this comment either?

honeric01:

All your questions, i answered if you are careful enough to read. as for you, you jumped my questions.

Please leme see the questions I missed.

And you didn't answer my q if there's a condition attached to calling elders o!

honeric01:

Sorry, you're the one looking for faults because you've got nothing else to say.

BTW, i used "hardly", i never said you didn't quote.

Where did I seek fault?

honeric01:

Stop the perambulation, who's an elder?

My bible told me that as a christian, i have been given the power to heal the sick, raise the dead, so if i am sick as a christian, my first job is to pray for myself, but when i am not healed, i can then go to those more rooted in the word for prayers and anointing in the name of the lord. (check James).

You're the one going in circles. You've not answered my question.

jes7:
You are talking as if I the passages I quoted were not from the bible. Yes, according to prophet Isaiah, all our righteousness are filthy rags which means all our self righteousness and self effort to portray a man-made righteousness are filthy rags, but the only righteousness we need is the righteousness that comes from God through Jesus Christ and it only comes but genuine repentance from your sin. That was why Christ told the woman caught in adultery "go and sin no more" when Christ gives you his righteousness, he liberates you completely from your sins, so that you can be free indeed.

I didn't say you wrote them you jst put them in a way to send a message that you're righteous and have no need for forgiveness.

The alduterous woman do we know if she still sined again or not?

"when Christ gives you his righteousness, he liberates you completely from your sins, so that you can be free indeed." If/after you confess and show true remorse. Your freedom from sin is not that you do not have the ability not to sin. It means your guilt/sin cannot seperate you from the love of christ.

So when you sin the grace is there to repent and not repete the erorr.

honeric01:

Define what an elder present in a sane church.

That's not wat I pointed out. Ur condition to inviting the elders is wat I'm questioning here? Is that wat ur version says?

honeric01:

You mean those half quotes you threw around, picking the ones that suit you while leaving out some parts that weren't favorable to your point? like Peter walking on water while leaving out the sinking later part?

Like only peter making the move while leaving out the parts where the rest of the people on the boat already BELIEVED it was Christ walking on the water?

How does your being a man or woman relevant here?

You didn't say 'half quote' bro/sis. You said 'no quote' lol. He's even twisting he own words now.

honeric01:

When you're sick and you've prayed and there's no improvement, you are to seek the "elders", meaning those more rooted in the word and spiritual things in the church, they could be your pastor, your Sunday school teacher, your prayer warrior, your fellow brethren but an elder in the things of God. this you must know. being an elder in the things of God is not calculated by how long you have been in the church but what you possess inside of you.

you obviously aren't reading my comments or you are not comprehending.

Is that wha your version of the bible says "When you're sick and you've prayed and there's no improvement, you are to seek the "elders", meaning those more rooted in the word and spiritual things in the church" or you just read 'in between the line'

honeric01:

I can see that throughout our convo, you hardly quoted the scriptures to back up your points, bro read more of your bible. i am not here to debate you, i am here to help as many as possible to see the light and at the same time read from those who are going to help me know God more and grow more in him.

Oh please! Tell me all the talk about peter and jesus and healing are from a novel. You really need to help yourself first

Guess what you're super presumptious u can't even afford to think of me as either a male or female. U prefer to conclude I'm a male. Smh. I wonder how u learn anything. Too many ideas in ur head as turned to reality.

jes7:

This is getting more interesting. It is ironic to say you are a christian and at the same time a sin. Their is no christian sinner because to be a christian is to be like christ and since christ was not a sinner, if you are a christian you can't be a sinner.
Matthew 1:21
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins".
1 John3 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 [b]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Good! You just declared yourself.

And the words of christ that says our righteousness is like a filty rage does not apply to you. Neither does the words who can inherit the kingdom of God and jesus answer with man its impossible but with God all things are possible.

Choi* you must be better than the apostels oh! Cos if Jesus could not guarantee a seat for the sons of zeebeede since you're clean he has no choice now? Abi? You're not a filthy rage? Are you?

honeric01:

Where were you going with that sentence?

You're tiring me out! Having to repeat the same thing over and over. The instruction is ' when there's a sick person, call on elders to come and pray and annoit the being'

Now you say wat that passage means is after u've prayed and God is not answering then you call 'anybody' to come and pray that we're all equal and I said.
Why are there levels if we're equal?

Why would Peter be told to "feed the flock"?

Why didn't the bible say if God doesn't seem to be answering ur prayer call anybody. Why did he jst say if u're sick "call elders" he didn't put a condition to it did he?

And the next thing you jumped on me saying "you know where I'm going" ah!

That's one sin u've commited and you need to see a priest to confess.

honeric01:

Yet he still fell into the water because as usual his little faith failed him again. the rest didn't ask who was coming, the rest were actually the ones who told him Christ was on the sea, when he heard them, he still doubted and asked "if you were"(Go and read your bible). we are not talking about peter here. the case here is " confessing your sins to a priest", is this what Jesus taught his disciples?

I am not talking like a christian because i sound different from the normal Christians you know? anyways, i am not here to convince you, my aim is to make heaven, whether i sound like one to you or not, that's not my aim on earth. as long as i am not acting against the teachings of my savior, i am all good.

Yeah! He started sinking like we all do eventually (we faulter everyday and then try to make amends with God again).

About confession I know what has been writing, but if you're saying what's "in between the lines" that I don't know?

You sound like many protestant that I know. You've not shown any unique quality so far.

Thought your aim was the greatest commission!

jes7:

I am saying the disciples have a completely different understanding of what Christ said. Since no apostle lay no claims to having the power to forgive sins, instead they consistently pointed to Christ as the only mediator, it then means your interpretation and believe is wrong. They can't forgive sins but they can declare to you that your sins have been forgiven after you have confessed them to God. Many times people confess their sins but do not actually repent and forsake them, in such a case, even if your priest tells you he has forgiven your sins, you are still a sinner because God that knows your heart knows you have not truely repented.

Repenting from your sin does not mean you're not a sinner anymore is like doing an HIV test and believing you've become immune to the disease. It makes provision for your past not ur future.

honeric01:

When you're sick and you've prayed and there's no improvement, you are to seek the "elders", meaning those more rooted in the word and spiritual things in the church, they could be your pastor, your Sunday school teacher, your prayer warrior, your fellow brethren but an elder in the things of God. this you must know. being an elder in the things of God is not calculated by how long you have been in the church but what you possess inside of you.

I already explained the "equal access" to God to you already and i have given your examples of when you need to seek help from those more rooted than you.

You brought up the issue of "hirachy e.t.c and you know what we were discussing before that popped up, so i already have an "idea" of where you were going with that.

You can't know where I'm going safe you're claiming to be omniscience. Are you?

And I hope u know that presumption is a sin?

honeric01:

Running away does not equal backsliding, denying that you knew him not is backsliding, going back to your vomit is backsliding.
He was the first, if not, kindly point to where any other disciple "publicly" denied him.

I am not talking here as a human being, i am talking as a Christian, I have passed the stage of living in darkness, that's why i am a christian, i am to know him more as a christian and at the same time live a life that will attract others to him and at the same time go out to preach the gospel, this is the greatest commission JESUS gave we Christians before leaving earth, if i am wrong, prove it with the bible.

Peter was faithless even with the closeness and "special" love he enjoyed from Jesus, he still had alot of doubts in him, he often queried Jesus with statements like "if you are" Christ, if you are. even before he walked on water, he used the same word. when you don't believe in something, that's when you query.

We're deviating, now back to topic. AS CHRISTIANS, we all have equal rights in the sight of God and one more thing, our commission here on earth as Christians (not humans only) is to go out there, preach the gospel, become the light of the world because we have come of darkness into the light. the holy spirit is the soul winner but we are the tools, we have to first take the word out, then the holy spirit takes charge.

Dey didn't deny cos there was no opportunity too.

You're obviously not talking like one.

Peter cleared his doubt and took his stand with God. He didn't jst stay in the boat and held on to his doubt like the rest.

Are you saying you don't ask God questions why somethings happen/ how they happened? I'm sure if you're single you're definitely not asking him for a life partner nor did u ask if u are married. Cos if seeking more knowledge in God's word is in ur opinion faithlessness then sigh*

I'm also guessing the parable of the talents teaches u nothing about equality? Smh.

Stop repeating wat I said earlier jor!

First wat christ says is the 2 greatest commandment and den he said the 'great commission' and not "greatest commission" like you're puting it.

Mutaino7:
Check history and see why martin luther rebel against d catholics. Y was john bunyan imprisoned. Y was it called heresy by d papal when sum1 tries 2 translate the bible in2 english. Find out how poor people cope wit d payin of penance and d legendary walking on knee in a stony ground all because u want 4gvness. Even Jesus xcape 2 d mountain wen d people wanted 2 crown him. He even wash his disciple feet. How come d pope is worshipped lyk a god and his ring kissed or was it in d bible. I challenge u that can u call ur bishob 'bro' or 'mr' ask ananias when he prayed 4 paul he said bro paul. If u're conversant wit ur church u shud knw dat its dwindlin in population esp in germany cos of imposed levies yet u're quick 2 blame pastors who bought xpensif thing. Though am not in full support but it is said he dat bless a prophet shall eat the reward of a prophet. 2 me the original church as bin doctrinize, politicalize and deviated 4rm Jesus original plan. Roman catholic is not d first church. Note d day of pentecost all the xtian where at d upper room and not at st Luke's cathedral. The where first called xtian at antioch and not catholics and there wasn't any figure head called pope cos dey live simple lives.

So how simple a life are you / your religious leaders living now?

honeric01:

Please quote where in the bible God said he answers prayers according to your position, hirachy or "referral methods" you mentioned.

Jesus said "come unto me, all ye that labor and of heavy laden, and i will give you rest", he also said, "i am the way, the truth and life, no man commeth to the father except through me" unless you count these words of Jesus as irrelevant, then why should i go to a pastor, pope,father, bla bla bla for something i have equal right to ask from Jesus directly?

You can see that i am quoting, so i would like you to always debunk my comments with biblical quoting too.

Thank you.

Please read from the begining. The first quote given was an instruction to call on elders when u're sick and since you say u're equal to d task I asked den u need no elders and that passage is useless? + while you're @ it I'd like you to show me where I stated that "God said he answers prayers according to your position, hirachy or "referral methods" cos I know this is part of the problems of reading 'btw the lines' rather than reading what was writen.