₦airaland Forum

Sagamite:
Absolutely talented.

With different great voices too.

rabzy:
I said he can know anything he wants to know, but that does not mean he choose to know everything there is to know....understand the idea. Anybody that can see where bokoharam or do a surveilance on them will know when they want to hit a village. What i mean is that, can God know what i will do on the 15th of march 2035, YES. But does he pry into it and know what i will do...now that is different issue entirely....That a Man can beat a whole village does not mean he will beat the whole village, that a telecom company can track everyone using their sim does not mean they actually track everyone that uses their sim.

rabzy:
If a class teacher told his students that you will fail if you don't read and probably end up as poor, the student refused to read and then the teacher passed all of them. How will the student know the wages of laziness is failure.
God said if you seek out your own ways it will lead to disaster, he said man will dominate man to his own injury. Then when we seek out our own ways and oppresss ourselves and we now expect God to come to our rescue at every corner. How will we know that he was actually right in the first place. He would automatically become a lier.

He has said he has the powers to resurrect and that he would restore all things to be a paradise in which all wicked men all those who ruin the earth will be destroyed. You dont want him to kill people who are wicked but you are talking about boko haram and starving kids. When he said he would destroy such men in the Bible, you said he is vengeful. So what do you want him to do to bokoharam, to just switch them from bad people to good people.
The fate of bokoharam and such-like ones is eternal death and for those innocent kids, there is a chance to live again under perfect conditions.

rabzy:
Now what is the reason for which God created man. The Bible said the soul that sins it will die. God told Adam if you cease to obey me, you will die. So God created man for a purpose and when he no longer fits that purpose or fulfill the purpose, he is not fit to live. Just like the farmer and farm analogy. The Bible used similar analogy

Despite repeated warnings and pleadings, the nation of Israel refused to yield and they kept killing the prophets sent to them. God allowed hundreds of years before he actually punished the nation of Israel severely for their actions. They cannot expect to have Gods favour and help and then choose to ignore him as their God and King. Even a human father would not continue to indulge a disobedient child without meting out appropriate punishment.

Then also about his all-knowing abilities, there is no doubt that God can know whatever he chooses to know. But do you know if he chooses to know all things. With my radio i can tune into many stations and listen to varieties of broadcasts, but having a radio does not mean i do that. Personally its been years i tuned on the radio in the house.
Specific statements in the Bible indicates that God does not use that his fore-knowing power always or that he likely rarely uses it to give humans the freedom of choice.

rabzy:
if i planted a farm, i have the right to cut its seed and use it the way i deem fit, if i rear some chickens or livestock i can use it to feed or cloth myself. I can even go into the forest and hunt a big game probably a female deer and leave its offspring to starve, but i would not see myself as barbaric (though it is barbaric to vegans and other people who are advocating for total and full animal rights).

When an animal is ravaging our crops or killing people to feed itself such animals are killed, we never see it as barbaric. So if a Supreme being, who claims to be our creator also decides to kill us because of going against his rules, it would be hard to see it as barbaric

Activa:
You said what I wrote makes no sense.

So I asked you a question and you're pushing it back. If you don't know it then admit it and we can start talking.

The answer to that will begin to tell u why the gap between the interbank and parallel rate is that wide.

The policy of d cbn and d 41 items isn't perfect just as any other policy. But nobody has been able to provide a better alternative.

I also admitted earlier that although some genuine small cash depositors might suffer but the aim is to frustrate d unpatriotic people who make huge and obscene profits at d expense of the country.

But I can see many ignorant people here making comments and abusing Buhari as if d problem started with him.

For example, what's the relationship of '1984 economy loading' which u wrote and d subject being discussed?

rabzy:
You may need to check the contractual agreement between the israelites and God that was brokered by Moses.

NumberOne2:
Not defending, correcting your errors. If I was defending, I would have used scriptures. I didn't.

You seem to be making more errors:

God made man, man made guns. Guns kills people. Therefore God killed people?
Since God made man. Hitler was a man who killed 7 million people, I guess God DID IT?

Look, the bible or any other material for that matter is written with CONTEXT.
She broke my heart doesn't mean my heart was taken out of my chest and broken to pieces.

Learn to balance things else SIMPLE Scriptural stuff become English debates.
Jesus said turn the other cheek doesn't means ALWAYS turn your cheek when slapped. It simply means do not revenge.

Comprehende?

NumberOne2:
Well, you may want to read that in other bible versions like AMP then come back and tell me what you learnt.
As for the others (1 - 9) interesting list. However, I barely see as errors in Historical documentation which goes further to confirm that the various events DID HAPPEN. They have little to do with the Sovereignty of God.

Example:
I spent close to 5k at the market yesterday.
I spent 4k at the market yesterday.
The amount spent matters little except to an Accountant. However, we can establish that I spent money at the market yesterday.

[b]I thought you said God can defend himself. Why are you here defending his scriptures?

The difference between your example and the Bible is that the Bible gave specific figures, you didnt (you said CLOSE to 5k). The Bible said 420 talents in one part and said 450 in another. The Bible said 550 officers in one part and said 250 in another part. The Bible said 22 years in one part and said 42 in another part. Pray tell, how did your god round up 22 to become 42. And still did not say CLOSE to 42 or ABOUT 42. Quit the rationalization, dude.

It's interesting that you bring up the AMPLIFIED version. Again, the inspiration of God comes to the fore. How does he make the Bible so ambiguous that the translators have to have such a hard time translating and thus having something accurately done in one translation. If the KJV is wrong in this aspect, how many more errors is contained therein?

But being the fundamentalist that you are, you dont even know that the reason there are differences in translations is because the original manuscripts of these texts are lost. So what they have are tens of thousands of manuscripts (which are different from one another) and translators always have a hard time reconciling the differences. Are you aware of that?

Are you aware that Moses could not have written the whole 5 books attributed to him? Are you aware that none of the gospels was written by a disciple of Jesus? Are you aware that there is a gospel according to St. Peter that has been hidden from you? Are you aware that the first gospel, Mark, was written more than 70 years after Jesus had died and it was written by someone who had not had an encounter with Jesus but was merely writing down what people have heard from others who claim they had encounters with people who had encounters with Jesus? Are you aware that this is true for Matthew, Luke and John as well?

Do you know these things? [/b]

REMOVED? Perhaps proper translations were made and the context better understood than the Old KJV.


Now let me correct a misconception. The bible contains words of Man, Devil and God. It also has narration of events.
When Jesus said "Heaven and Earth will pass but my word will not pass". This did not include a narration like "As Jesus went to Jericho" should also not pass away cos its in the bible. A simple understanding of English context will help.

passwelle:
This has to be the most uninformed comment I have read on this thread in a long while. Like seriously?

NumberOne2:
Dude nothing shameful. You asked for evidence. I gave you ID. You come back to ask who is the designer.
This is the scenerio:
Who is the Designer? God
Who is God? Then we can start a whole thread on that. Nah, time is precious.

Atheist get frustrated when arguments become circular (I have told you before that not all Christians conclude that GOD DID IT). I am not a fanatic (my God is bigger than yours type). That is NOT the Gospel. You were a Pastor, you should know what the Gospel is. Arguments don't get folks saved, it is ONLY GOD that does. You expect me to defend God? Who am I to do that? Is He not more (in wisdom and stature) than myself? He can defend Himself.

Dude, Salvation is not of works. [That is where Intelligent Design supporters missed it]. No one can argue Salvation. It is God that convinces by the Spirit when the Gospel is shared.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9

Cheers

NumberOne2:
Me

Let look at this the Scientific way. Hypothesis are made to understand certain phenoms in nature.
Big bang was proposed as the basis for the Universe. Work is being done to prove or debunk it. Till then, it is widely accepted. Not as the truth, but a work in progress.

Now same logic to intelligent design. If a man said an invisible artist caused it or he said his grandfather did it. What stops us from working with that till it is proved or debunked?

This is why the debate between Theist and Atheist will continue till the next generation. No one can debunk the other but each one thinks their logic is better.

Like I said before, you cannot debunk a percieved falsehood with another. Its a waste of time, See how long this thread is but yet none can prove or disprove God. Does that not ring a bell? Look online, its a mess of inconclusive materials.

You posted an almost 2 hours video on US legal issues? I laugh (dont have the time to watch now perhaps later). Unless that video tells me how come the Earth spins so fast (and I am not dizzy) or the origins of life, there is not point. I keep telling you that Atheism doesn't provide answers, it just asks more questions. Well, questions are allowed: Seek and you shall find. Keep seeking.

PS: Where intelligent designer proponents missed it is attributing the design to God. All they had to do was leave it blank. Let everyone seek the designer themselves. It is not for man to prove God (He cant). He doesn't need our help. Salvation is not of works

NumberOne2:
Intelligent Design. Life is too complex, nature is too organized and too diverse.

The Earth spins at 460m/s (round an olympic stadium track in less than 1 second). Do you feel that spin? We (in Nigeria) stand sideways on Earth and those at the South pole are upside down. They don't fall off the sky.

Ever seen those beautiful pictures from NASA of Space. Breath taking. I love art. Can you really tell me that I can randomly pour paint on a canvas and come out with a masterpiece. It defiles login. Can you tell me a car came about by collision of metals, plastic, oil, water and petrol overtime? Really?

PS: From a neutral view, I will prefer the idea of an invisible creator than the idea that a car came about by collision of metals, plastic and petrol over time.

orunto27:
No one say that you have a boring life.and that life is a gift of the indwelling spirit in you.

PastorAIO:
How about a true Self that is coterminous with one's circumstances, even to the extent of encompassing the entire universe?

But with all these cases, our thinking is influenced by the information available to us. That is different for everybody. Different people with different information will come to different conclusions. I don't see how you can arrive at a superior Truth via this means. The only way to think critically would be to have access to all the information in the universe. This is impossible for us. It was seem then that Rationality or Pure Reason is beyond are capabilities.

There might seem to be moments or relapse and moments of progress but ultimately how can you progress or relapse when you don't have a standard or a goal you are progressing towards or relapsing away from. How can you make any judgment or evaluation without a standard?

NumberOne2:
I said you are new to Atheism:
You seem to be mixing superstition with religion. You should know there are superstitious Atheists. Atheist that believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy but not in the existence of a God.
Atheism is lack of belief in deities - All other attributes like irrationality or superstition STILL APPLIES to them.

No I think the above applies more to you than me.
There are Theists and Atheist in science and medical fields looking for answers. I don't know where you get the impression that ALL Christians or Theists sit back and SAY GOD DID IT. You really need to sit down and define your beliefs and see if it aligns with Atheism or its just anti-religious. They are not the same though a thin line seperates them.

Thanks for confirming my previous statement. Closer to the truth is not the truth now is it? So neither side is right or wrong.
Kindly let me know when you find this truth. Till then, dont try to debunk your percieve falsehood in religion with another falsehood in Atheism. It doesnt work and can NEVER work.

NumberOne2:
Hmmm, looking at this thread, I see you may be new to Atheism so it seems like a rush (from your previous boring Christian life). Enjoy!
I am NOT an apologetic. I don't need to explain the scriptures to anyone except a believer. Infact this is my conclusion: MAN DOESNT NEED TO PROVE GOD. THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE.

As for Atheism, its just an alternative to believing in God. It only questions God's existence, but doesn't provide ANY answers.
So if you say Christianity isn't absolute and we know Atheism isn't then what? So the debate remains (as in previous generations before us) till we all hit the grave. Cheers.

PS: I hope you aren't one of those Atheist that believes in Evolution? Cos that will be like going from the pot to the fire (based on your views).

PastorAIO:
A lot has happened since we started, and I haven't been so consistent on this site. But the Long and short of our discussion so far starts from

1: You said certain things about indoctrination and mind control in religion and it's tendency to make people violent. Which led to us talking about critical thinking and teaching people to think critically.

2: I tried to make the point that all thinking, critical or otherwise, is based on certain criteria that are quite arbitrary. When trying to think about what is Right or True, such a process would require a criteria that was not arbitrary but Adamant.

3. Can such an Adamant basis of our thinking and behaviour exist? Is there a true self? i.e.. a true self that is independent from the accidental self that has been shaped by circumstances and indoctrination.

This is at least what I think we have been discussing.

PastorAIO:
I see no reason why genes should be the core of a personality above one's circumstances. Are not your genes themselves circumstantial? They are not fixed but constantly undergo mutations and graftings. Genetic material is constantly being added to our gene pool from outside. For instance from viruses everytime we get an infection.

My point is that there is no Right way for a person to be unless there is a True Adamant Core. I'm not prepared to say that this Adamant Core is his genetic material (something that we know is constantly shifting and can be manipulated), however for the purpose of argument I accepted it hypothetically. Once we can accept that there is a True Adamant Core to a person and that circumstances can cause him to veer away from this Core then we can talk about a person ethically being on the Right path or on the wrong path.


If we are driven by various urges to do the things that we do and there is a Deep seated Urge that is hardwired into us then no matter how much we gratify out various other urges, if we leave that core urge ungratified we will have a deep sense of dissatisfaction no matter how much gratifications we are getting elsewhere.

I'm lost. Your point is?To be honest, I have lost track of our discussion. Couple of things have come between it.