₦airaland Forum

Boomark:
So what is trinity?

You are speaking grammar and human sentiment. So wherever you see anybody called God you assumed it is trinity.


I speak and slay falsehood with scriptures.

I asked you this question but you rather you asked me? That's dishonesty, so far you have evaded most of my questions .

I can't be begging you to answer questions, I will mark them down for you when you are ready, perhaps after a rethink, you will answer them.

Truthseeker10:
lol......you mean you gave an answer that is not in agreement with Eastern orthodoxy of ontological union with God?

The funny thing is that I never said that Ephesians 3:19 negates the trinity doctrine. I only said that if you and other bodies can't agree on Ephesians 3:19, why should I join you and other bodies in believing in the Trinity.

if that's the case then don't join Christianity after all there over 4000 denominations —Your excuse is weak. Each 'church' has its own theological doctrine, based on what Gabrielshow24 has said that you are a JW; I can say the same for you? why should I believe Jesus is Michael?

Can you see how illogical you sound? There are core doctrines that do not deviate from most of those churches while they are divided upon 'minor doctrines'. The resolution of Ephesians3:19 doesn't negate the stance of trinity! Find something else as an excuse

Boomark:
The green is twisted. Go back to where you got what I wrote. I said, in the beginning, the word of God is his spoken word which he used to create everything. The word of God became Jesus when the word was made flesh (When angel Gabriel told Joseph that the child will be called Jesus). This is where you and I can now say Jesus is the word of God. And the reason you are saying, all things where created by Jesus (by the word of God)

Follow things the way I say it.


The black bolded is correct. The automatically... you added is your own personal assumption. I don't know what it means.

I only dodge people who twist my words.

See what you wrote in the screenshot. I don't know where I wrote such a thing. So use my exact word because they are usually borrowing from scripture not theology. Reduce the way you use theological words and focus on how things are written in the scripture.

"divine nature (Godhead) is given to God head"

I never said anything like this. That was why it is difficult for you to point out.

Don't be like your colleague that was asking us "who is godliness?"

The green is twisted how? you basically started with the "word of God is not Jesus" then "you continued later to say Jesus is the word of God".

Now, based on this. According to you, Jesus and the "primordial word of God" can't be the same! Hence you negated his pre-existence . Is that your stance?... Nevermind, I see you shy away from questions so I will limit them . In simple words, The above is your submission!

Can you now see that I didn't twist your words? take note everyone, the primordial being, "word of God" is not Jesus; Jesus is just the flesh covering it

"Divine nature is given to God head is the result of your two statements, which you have affirmed are yours ". It's not an assumption, it's your stance—"God owns the Godhead, it's his nature...not theirs, he gave Jesus...so he must as well given the Holy Spirit "

It wasn't difficult for me to point it out, I pointed it immediately, you are one trying to avoid the implication of your statement.

Gabrielshow24:
Save your breath, it's not useful arguing with them. They are all JW except DeepSight—he sees Jesus as a mere man🤕.

One of them believes God is compositional 😂, even God's eyes can become flesh along with other parts of him but they are not God in anyway 😂, the rest believe God is non-transcendental🤕. Use your energy to do other things, leave them.

Thanks, I will take note of this.

Boomark:
I gave him a version of trinity because you people have different versions.

My work is to destroy whatever definition anybody give to it.

without understanding what it entails, I even read from the other thread that you made God 'compositional', how come?

What's your school of thought? And what's the idea you have about trinity? If you think, you are not wearing green while you don't even know what green is; that's self delusion

Others have pointed out, that you are just repeating the creeds of trinity, as the Father is greater than the Son in authority and they both are God—which you have affirmed yourself. To what end? What did you hope to achieve? What did you aim to prove? That Jesus has a God? While he was a man —Is that not a corollary of being flesh ? After all he ascended in his earthly body .

Boomark:
If you want you can start with your own version. And you will still reject Christ. Just like he has rejected God and Christ.

All I need is for you to continue answering my questions until you start saying you don't accept what Jesus said and reject what God did by yourself. I can answer all questions but you can't answer mine.

It is the spirit of the antichrist that make you people think the word of God is incorrect.

Yet you haven't answered mine . A lot of questions you shied away from. Should I post them here?

Ken4Christ:
Your questions doesn't have the correct options.

The Father raised Jesus from the dead.
He was also raised by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus also raised himself from the dead.

So, no point answering questions that are wrongly asked.

You are so myopic.

You need the Spirit of God to comprehended spiritual things.

Jesus is Mighty God. He is also Almighty.

The possible answer(s) are not the only logical options available. The Father raised Jesus, the Son raised himself, the Spirit raised him. All in all, God raised him; with Jesus himself being God. So yes, scriptures is right on that.

Context on those verses is key. It's the same Spirit that inspired them all, so taking one and rejecting the other is not sufficient. You must reconcile all and understand the message passed across; He hasn't gotten that aspect of scripture.

MaxInDHouse:
Now it's obvious that you just love lying to your own soul what we gathered from all those that has been to theology schools is that Trinity is a Mystery that is why Trinitarians are confused when it comes to the definition of Trinity.

So stop lying that it could be explained in a simple way!

Not so, the 'how' is a mystery? The outline is evident based on scriptural data. We don't know how Jesus had two natures, Divine and temporal, at the same time but we do know he exhibited both.

We also know from scriptures that he dwelt with God and he made the Universe, so he is definitely not a creature! How he and the Father dwelt for eternity is a mystery! How both have no beginning and end is a mystery! We have come to accept them that way.
So, we know the definition of trinity, the outline of it! We don't know the workings!
We don't know why God being a spirit has a Spirit but we do know he has one! The fact also remains that the spirit of God was primordial and dwelt in Eternity with the Father and the Son!

Do you understand?

ravensckar:
Me? 2 minute man? I'll forgive you for confusing me with your ex-boyfriend.

Me? A whole SHEVCHENKO? Quit playing young lady!

ex-boyfriend ? 2-minute man ? God forbid . Perhaps you meant your sister's boyfriend/husband .

Shevchenko ? All talk no show, many of your kind make this mouth yet they end gasping after 2minutes better take your title with dignity and stop with the lies.

Truthseeker10:
Madam if you can't stand with either of your fellow believers in Trinity then let's call it a day.....it therefore means that for me to believe in Trinity, it either I stand with you or the eastern orthodox or the western protestantism on the interpretation of Ephesians 3:19. Madam I choose to rest. Bye bye.

Alright, why are you both dodgy? Seeking to poke holes, reluctant to respond. I have answered the questions you posed to me but the one time I ask you, you jet off . Very sad, indeed. Trinity is in no way, related to "Ephesians 3:19" except you had hoped to use this verse to negate trinity which I guess hasn't worked well for you. Hence the persistence in wanting to force an answer out from me .

You can just assert whatever you belief about trinity with going through this intellectually dishonest route. I have assumed you are non-trinitarian, still trying to figure out your school of thought and denomination .

Boomark:
Please all these things you wrote here are out of point. I don't even understand if you are telling me what you believe or what.

So I want you to mark where I said this thing in this screenshot. Mark it as marked your own. I want to be sure you will not continue twisting my words.

I didn't twist any word, those are your words. The implication is very simple which I have outlined , now you are claiming I twisted your word. Mind you, you said Jesus is not the word and at the same time, in the same post, you called him the word of God .

You can likewise call whatever you like "out of point", it just shows you don't own up to the implications of your statement. I have marked them in bold, whatever else you are looking for is just self delusion .


You claimed God gave Jesus is nature which is your word in ¹ then you asserted God owns the Godhead and it's his nature², automatically including the spirit as being imputed the divine nature .
Which prompted my questions, which you are desperately trying to avoid?

I just experienced what image123 talked about , it's disheartening.

Truthseeker10:
Ai gives views of people stands. I have given you an example of eastern orthodoxy view and western protestantism view of Ephesians 3:19 even when those two bodies believe in Trinity....You've refused to take a stand even when you believe in Trinity....is that not amazing?

Kkk, you still haven't told me your stance.

ravensckar:
Lazy?

Hanty, you ladies should have a meeting among yourselves to decide how many minutes or hours is the standard time for knacking.

One lady can't be content with 2 minutes and another lady is demanding 2 hours. Una dey confuse us abeg.

Besides, why do I feel like you're a Dude with a hairy ball?

#Picks_tooth

If we standardized it, then a lot of you will be in the grave because you can't meet up. There's a reason we don't have a cool off mechanism .

Be happy, some girls are still willing to satisfy your ego even though you are a two-minute man —Stick to your indomie gals .

Boomark:
The delusion God sent on those who have refused to believe the Truth is at work on them. I showed one of them some scriptures about what Jesus said concerning the Father (the Father is his God, the Father is greater). He called these scriptures kindergarten scriptures.

He used that as a way of rejecting the words of Jesus Christ. They don't know what they are doing. And they will be the first to claim they are relying on the Holy spirit for interpretation.

They will beg you to define trinity for them. After disturbing me for so long, I told on of them him it is 666. Case closed and still didn't define the trinity he was defending. They tell lies a lot to support themselves where necessary.

They won't want you to use AI so they can easily twist your words and insist on a lie they told. This is what Julia is doing already.

what way have I done this? How can you define trinity as 666 ? Are they the same thing ? Perhaps, he wanted to understand what you were calling trinity or your idea of it .

Truthseeker10:
Is your stand inconsequential to what it means to be filled with all the fullness of God as seen in the debates between the eastern orthodoxy and the western protestantism?

my belief on what trinity means is whatever Ai says it is. I bring all the arguments from the opposing sides of believers of trinity whether from the eastern orthodoxy or from the western protestantism.

Ai changes its own weight function everytime a new information is fed into it . Is that your basis for biblical proof?
So, what did your AI(meta), say about Trinity? Which we are all aware you must have personalized , so tell us.

Boomark:
I don't have anything to answer you or anyone that lies. Make screenshot where I said exactly what you wrote.

Here are your words

Boomark:
Yes. So how then will Trinitarians come and say that since Christ has the fullness of God, it means that he is equal to God. They don't even know that it was given to him by God. They don't have respect for the Father. ¹Trinity Is the agenda of satan and the antichrist against the Father who reconciled us to himself since they lost when Christ died and resurrected.

God the Father is the owner of Godhead (divine nature). It is his nature and not a position for trinity or 3 persons. The Father, who is One God over all owns it.²

See my rebuttal on it. Trinitarians don't understand scripture. They don't know the meaning of things.

https://www.nairaland.com/8486945/bible-challenge-trinity-boomark-image123/6#136513274

You can't pick holes in what I wrote because they are true.

I will ignore the "exact" because that's just misleading on your part, if Jesus was given the divine nature being the word of God and you claim the Father owns the nature and the Godhead as you said in ² then it's safe to assume that the "spirit" as well was given the nature of God.
Which prompted this reply from me

Julia25:
So let me guess, according to you, Jesus was given God's nature . Ok...what nature did he have as the word of God before his earthly dispositions?

Also, let me see what you understand by the "Spirit of God" because technically God is a spirit but yet he has a Spirit? Is this spirit in the same nature has God?

I don't get what you drive at , if you state the nature of God in its fullest is imputed or "given" to the God head then based on capabilities, are they not the same? Your "diversification" is more functional, as the Father is the head of Christ which is well exemplified in the logos; the same way the man is the head of the woman . Still, they are of the same nature.

Do you understand the above? You are only focused on functional roles not ontological roles. If this is your full-proof rebuttal then you are just repeating trinity creeds

The bible also adds that we will be like him, Christ, therefore we will have his nature because he has the nature of God. Hence our end result, ontologically speaking, is God(or like) but functionally we are subject to Christ.

Do you also understand the above?

Also, kindly answer the question I posed towards you . I hope to understand your standpoint better. As you can see from the above, I am not a liar.

geechy:
Tinubu follow for the half abi?

Describe what qualifies real men cos na this subjective idea dey cos confusion. Real man to you fit be 3 minutes and to another lady, 3 minutes is just scratching the surface meaning he doesn't qualify

3 minutes ?What do you take me for ?—Better look for your shawarma gals to satisfy that with.

'real men' know themselves .

ravensckar:
The very reason I ran away from one Idoma lady that I once dated.

Hanty wanted to send me to the after-life. I've never met someone that is always on like that. If we do ta ta ta ta in the morning, by night, she'll be back to continue from where we stopped. And to make matters worse, Hanty doesn't cum easily. You'll dig, dig, knack, knack before she climax. Eyes see something abeg!

Just 3 months into the relationship, I was already looking like a skeleton. Na why I JAPA be that. Since then, I added it to my requirement that any lady that I'm going to marry must not be a freak.

If I had gone the way of aphrodisiac, God knows I would have been long dead. Any man in his right senses shouldn't allow a woman push him towards using sex enhancement pills, it's one way ticket to the after-life. Any woman wey 2 minutes no reach her, she can go jump into the lagoon.

#Picks_tooth

Lazy man, supporting mediocrity

#Picks_tooth

Truthseeker10:
Well, Eastern orthodoxy and some forms of catholicism will say that you are pushing a western protestantism view. So where do you wish to stand?

What's your belief on trinity? I will like to hear your standpoint. As for the question, my stance is inconsequential to the topic at hand.

Maximus692:
Remember that God's word was written to mankind like a letter.

So each word carried similar meaning to what is peculiar to humans.

The word "FIRSTBORN" means one of the children but specifically the first child. So if all creations is from God's making then the firstborn of all creations is also from God's making!

Please be specific with your questions!

So according to you, God made the first born then the "first born" made the rest? Is this right? ⁽¹⁾ The scripture is clear, Jesus, the word of God, made all things so, is he still a creature? ⁽²⁾ According to you.

Also, do you realize that time and space is part of this "creation" so if Jesus made these then he is immutable. Do you agree with this? ⁽³⁾ Or you want us to believe that God, within his immutability made his "word" and his "spirit"? ⁽⁴⁾ Then he is automatically subject to time! Do you agree with this? ⁽⁵⁾

Maximus692:
This was his position as the archangel but after the rebellion in heaven he is no longer in control of all the angels that's why he later fought against Satan who is in control of rebellious angels! Revelations 12:7

I'm different from your friends here so if you want to discuss with me you have to pick the points one after another not putting everything together and expecting a straightforward response.

All of them knows me very well!

So what is your next question?

Now, apply this logic to the phrase "firstborn of creation" given other biblical verses that suggest his primordial nature .

If you didn't expatiate like this, providing "context", then anyone can use what I said as a rebuttal. Now add the necessary context taking other biblical verses about him into account—Jesus.

Maximus692:
This is the problem with false religionists!
Instead of asking what i meant you started putting your own meaning into my post and accusing me at the same time!
Ọmọ what i mean is that Jesus is the first son as in creature God made so he as the first born knew a lot about our heavenly Father than anyone else.
And as regards being the commander of all the angels that's what orderliness means but Satan and his likes decided to rebel against God's arrangement that's why they formed their own group and Satan became their leader!

So, here's the thing—I still haven’t gotten a clear answer to my question . Is the Spirit of God a creature or not? You’ve left me hanging on that one.

Now, Christ is the Head of all principalities (which, by the way, includes Satan and his whole entourage of troublemakers ). I get that the word head is used here, but let’s break it down, shall we? According to the Cambridge Dictionary (I mean, we’re both trying to be logical here, right? ), head is defined as 'someone in charge of or leading an organization, group, etc.'

So, based on this, are we really saying that Jesus is the one leading Satan and his band of misfits? Is He in charge of all the chaos, the evil, and the drama that’s being pulled off by Satan and his minions? I’m just using your logic here, so if that’s the case, maybe we need to start calling Jesus 'The CEO of All Villainy' . Or perhaps, Head of the Evil League of Evil? You’ve got to admit, your claim is ridiculous. Since, you decided to use a misleading logic in the form of "first born of creation" to denote it literally , I have decided to use this one to show you, the errors in taking things literally without using proper context.

At least they died doing what they love . Nobody forces men into all this — they chase it just to patch up their fragile egos . Half are 1-minute men , the rest are incels , and maybe 0.001% qualify as 'real' men who don’t need any of it, because the good Lord already gave them strength .

Truthseeker10:
Exactly the same reason why I use Ai too when discussing Trinity with them.....you can see that after I have shown her with Ai that her idea of ontologically having the same nature of God is not in harmony with her fellow Trinitarians, she changed mouth. That is to tell you that many of them don't really understand this Trinity doctrine. The founders of the Trinity doctrine have always been debating amongst themselves until they went to their graves. It is the same with those who believe in the Trinity doctrine today. They don't even speak in agreement too.

It's a misuse of the word "ontological" from my part as I must have conflated it with the synonym "nature", thanks for pointing that out. We will always be "created beings" but we will partake of all his attributes, the fullness of it.

I don't understand why the addition of the snide remark , let me understand your version of trinity? Also what I wrote about was not in anyway related to trinity, it was about our partaking of God's nature.

Boomark:
Why do you people enjoy telling and believing lies? Or is it that you people don't understand how to use english?

Where did you see me say, "the divine nature is... given to the God head?"

You are flowing with falsehood and not what I said. Cool down say exactly what I said. I don't want another headache please.

Max asked where you got what you said, you quoted me and still didn't point out where you saw exactly what you wrote. This was why I chose AI because human beings will be talking out of point without even knowing it. And you went further to insist it was what I wrote.

Follow the quotes, you will see what you wrote that prompted my reply to such. Also, you haven't answered me—the questions I asked of you

MaxInDHouse:
When talking about David we know him according to the Bible as:
Shepherd boy.
Psalmist, composer and singer.
Warrior.
King.
The above titles makes us appreciate the part David played in ancient Israel.
But later we discovered some bad traits in this same man we also know him as:
Womanizer.
Adulterer.
Murderer.

But despite the bad traits in this man God focuses on the good side of David and chose him to become the forefather of Jesus.

In David's time Isrealites knew him as one of their brothers an Israelite, son of Jesse from the tribe of Judah but when he became the anointed King of Israel they started referring to him as "Lord"

Jesus is from the lineage of David though not just a human like the rest of us but an angel in heaven who has been in control of all other angels because he is the first to be created and God gave him the privilege to create all other things both in heaven and on earth that's why he is rightly called the first born of all creations! Colossians 1:15-16

So if Jesus later speaks of the glory he shared with his father before creation it doesn't mean he is God Almighty rather he had the privilege of being the first of all creatures.

what about the spirit of God? is he also a creature?
Jesus is the "first of all creatures" as in preeminence, i can also say that Jesus is the head of all principalities and then according to your logic conclude that He is the one dishing orders for Devil and Co. to be doing evil . Do you see how misleading this is?

MaxInDHouse:
Of course!
Since Jesus is a brother to his disciples and shared the same nature with God as given to him and all his disciples will equally be given/possess the same nature then all believers are not Gods but God.
Note that Jesus said himself and the father are one {John 10:30} and his disciples will also share the same glory to become one with God and Jesus {John 17:22} so all of us are God not Gods o!

Probably, the word "ontological" was misleading as it might have suggested us having the inherent substance of God, that's not what I meant but rather we will have his "nature"—attributes. That's more befitting and doesn't cause confusion.

DeepSight:
Is it safe to say that you thus believe that you and all your fellow "saints" are God?

No we shall be like God, we are Godlike .
We might not have the inherent essence or substance of God but in his exuding nature we will be like him, the more suitable word would have been attributes ,my bad .

Boomark:
I understood your questions.

In the beginning, the word of God is his speech. It was not Jesus.

Genesis 1:3 NIV
[3] And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

"Let there be lights" is word. His word created light because he didn't use machine to create it.

The world was created by his word.

You people became confused when his word was made flesh and was known as Jesus. Those who know the truth and the source of everything won't be confused by this below.

The world was created by Jesus (his word)

This is why trinitarians don't want me to rest. They refused to accept the source while holding unto the surface.

The other questions will be answered in my last claim tonight or tomorrow morning in the trinity challenge thread.

I don't know where you got the bolded. It is too early to start making mistakes.

Based on what you said, is the word of God not God?
Perhaps an earthly example will enlighten you on what you have missed, is the word of Tinubu not carrying the same authority as him?

The word of Tinubu are "executive orders" in some sense and are invariably presidential in every form. So how beit, Jesus, the eternal word of God. He carries every sense of authority as God the Father. This is even before his incarnate existence as a man .

In summary, are your words not carrying the same authority as you? Yes or No.

Now, let me get you ... You assert Jesus and the primordial "word of God" are not the same? are you sure about this?

Boomark:
I understood your questions.

In the beginning, the word of God is his speech. It was not Jesus.

You now even contradicted yourself in the same write up

Boomark:
I understood your questions.

In the beginning, the word of God is his speech. It was not Jesus.

The world was created by Jesus (his word)

May I ask, how then is this possible?—Jesus is and isn't the "word of God"?

Boomark:
Trinity Is gone. No one is equal to his maker.

You all should return to God the Father. That was the purpose of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. To reconcile us back to God. Jesus is the way to God.

Go and read Romans I:19-23. You don't honour God as God.

https://www.nairaland.com/8486945/bible-challenge-trinity-boomark-image123/7#136538674

You reject the words of Jesus. You reject what God has done. Trinity Is prepared by satan and the antichrist against God the Father. They don't want him to recieve all the glory that belongs to him.

Julia25 this answered all your questions.

Nice write-up, you still shied from answering my question .

Is there anything God can do that his Spirit can't? You have only shown that in identity they are not the same.

Now, the core of your issue lies in the misunderstanding of Jesus' words in the earthly context (flesh). You claim Jesus is the word of God, may I ask... was flesh not given life by God? Were Flesh not made by God? So if Jesus becomes Flesh are those statements not still True .
Mind you, God is the God of the living, God over all flesh. Since Jesus became "flesh" does that not make God his God . Further more he went to heaven in this " Son-esque" state or glorified "human" state, so don't you think it's fitting about what he says in Revelation.

Paul understood this clearly and states so in Phil2:6. His word, his Spirit are all in the form of God even before the world began.

These three are all transcendent but are not the same as you, yourself has proven .
Now, the Jewish context has always put God as one, although it's plural and the plural majestic terms do not exist within.

So may I ask you, how the Lord of Israel is one? When the word itself is inherently plural without any justification for the plural majestic term .
Perhaps, the issue of "one" is the problem you have.

Truthseeker10:
Does your statements in bold mean that a time will come when men will be co-equal with the Father because they will have the same nature as the father?

The bible categorically states that we are joint heirs with Christ, we will rule with him. The same way Christ rules with God Rev3:21. By nature, we are all the same because we will be like him! Ontologically, we will have Christ's nature, God's nature, In its fullness upon us. 1john3:2, Romans8:17, Gal4:7, Gal 3:29, 1Peter 1:4, John1:12, Hebrew 1:2, John17:22.

The Father has delivered all judgement to the Son but we, the saints, will perform judgement on the world along with Jesus. 1cor6:2, Luke 22:30, Dan7:22, Rev 20:4, Matthew 19:28, Rev 3:21.

So yes, ontologically speaking, we will be co-equal to God. Functionally, not so as Christ is head of us and God the Father is head of Christ 1Cor 11:3, (cf Col3:19). This is what I believe.

MaxInDHouse:
Please where is the highlighted written in the Bible?

It's boomark's claim

Boomark:
They don't even know that it was given to him by God. They don't have respect for the Father. Trinity Is the agenda of satan and the antichrist against the Father who reconciled us to himself since they lost when Christ died and resurrected.

God the Father is the owner of Godhead (divine nature). It is his nature and not a position for trinity or 3 persons. The Father, who is One God over all owns it.

Just going with the flow of his position.