₦airaland Forum

harsysky:
I respect christians a whole lot. Christ had told us to go into the world and preach the gospel. The big question that often arises in my heart has always been these:

"Are we in all round doing what christ has told us especially when it comes to preaching the words of God?

" Are there sets of people who need these words eventhough it's for everyone?"

By the grace of God I have found answers to both and I'm very much thankful to God for revealing it to me.

To answer the first, I believe everyone knows or understands that John the baptist did not like the association of the pharisees. This is the instance "[Matthew 3] vs 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Why would John call them vipers or whatever? I believe it is because they claim they know much(typical life of an atheist). Jesus knew them well, too, to associate with them. He didn't preach to them. They came always just to argue but Jesus didn't argue with them-- He defeated them.

The answer to the second one is an emphatically Yes! There are sets of people who need this gospel;It is not for everyone. (NLT puts it well Mark 2 vs 17) When Jesus heard this, he told them,"Healthy people don't need a doctor--sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners." Mark the words- "who think and Who know."

I want to finally leave you all with this question, " Who is the SCORNFUL?"
What the scripture says concerning it. "Psalm 1 vs 1-- Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful."

Atheists are new version of the pharisees but this time, without pledging to any gods.

This is one of the most preposterous statements I have ever read in my entire life. It only clearly demonstrates the inconsistent logic ever-present in the utterances of faith-heads.

frank317:
Free thinkers should be free with everyone

I totally concur, But it's not as easy as you think. Checkout what valentinemary and dekatron posted about their experiences.

And what of d topic of how to raise d kids? That is Where real trouble will start!

simplex2:
What's the common question peeps ask you when they learn you are not a Christian/Muslim?
For me, I get these two a lot:

1. Who created you?
2. Where do you think you will go when you die?

1. No one as far as I Can tell. Am a product of billions of years of evolution.

2. My body will rot and I will be another contribution to the nitrogen and carbon cycle and my consciousness dies with me.


Actually we know how difficult it is for people to tolerate such answers

orisa37:
It's like caging a Dunce and a DON together.

The believers would say the same thing. They will quote " a fool says in his heart, there is no god". Name-calling won't solve a thing.

DipoDee:
...when you are in a failed society, getting a job after duly studying for years is considered a miracle.

Your argument is same with that of all Christians who feel the need to defend god...most tell ridiculous lies and give false testimonies. They are all around me.

Anjelus, I actually need superior argument not some job thing where HR managers get changed, systems develop glitches, Applicants get reviewed and recalled to take up a job they were initially denied by some overzealous HR persons. Btw, you keep rubbishing god, telling us he actually has the time to provide a job for your wife but looks on at ritualists plucking a little boy's eyes out and the other ills happening in the world.


NEXT!!


..and pls don't come back to ask me not to question god or to tell me his ways are not my ways..
I know that getting your wife a job is more important to god than saving the chibok girls, I know ok

Dude! You have spoken wll!

DipoDee:


Welldone, Hardmirror.

The fortunate unfortunate thing about this thread is that, the Christians/Moslems who view it all know that their god don't answer prayers, some of them have prayed and fasted and cried, some have blamed god, threatened god, cajoled god, tested god, toasted god, bribed god but dammit, god HAS NEVER ANSWERED their prayers...not even ONCE.


But then, church is entertainment for most, it is like a social gathering done once or twice a week, the nude girls, the 'worldly' songs, the businessmen cum motivational speakers(named pastors) and the state of the art musical instruments that makes them forget their sorrow once in a while. People who hold on to religion don't have a choice until they start to use their brains... It's actually better to have them believe in god(esp in Nigeria) than to take that away from them...what else do they have? Nothing is working, no hope for the common man except his belief in god and false miracles.


The suffering out here(in Nigeria) is too much, and even though god is not answering prayers, at least, let them believe he will, one day.


Note: If you have proof of answered prayers, pls state them without lies, arguments or insults.
And I'm not talking about malaria induced confessions, suffering-induced hallucinations, mental-illness induced confessions caused by the abject suffering in Nigeria/Africa and the lies you lot love to cook like chicken soup.

Thanks

Again, the voice in your head you call god, is nothing more than the signs and symptoms of mental-illness, unfortunately there are no psychologists and psychoanalysts to attend to the masses in Nigeria, hence the pastorprenuers will keep having a field day.
Btw, ain't you all ashamed and disgusted that your big shots in the NIGERIAN RELIGION INDUSTRY like Adeboye, Olukoya, Joshua, etc haven't yet seen a vision to locate the Chibok girls.

In the TV show House, M.D , Dr. House once said; If u talk to God you are religious, if God talks to you, your are psychotic!

Anjelus:
YOU CANNOT BE MORE ATHEIST THAN HOWARD STORM - Howard Storm Near Death Experience-The Atheist That Meet Jesus
Howard Storm

HOWARD STORM, THE ATHEIST THAT MET THE LORD.
Before his near-death experience, Howard Storm was an atheist1. A Professor of Art at Northern Kentucky University, was not a very pleasant man by his own admission. who would not tolerate anyone speaking about religion or God in his presence, and especially in his classroom.


An experience in Paris changed all that and completely altered Howard's life. After he "died" in a Paris hospital, in 1985, he met Jesus, who answered all of his questions. He was an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it. He often would use rage to control everyone around him and he didn’t find joy in anything. Anything that wasn’t seen, touched or felt, he had no faith in.

He knew with certainty that the material world was the full extent of everything that was. He considered all belief systems associated with religion to be fantasies for people to deceive themselves with. Beyond what science said, there was nothing else. But then on June 1, 1985, at the age of 38, Howard Storm’s had a near-death experience due to a perforation of the stomach and his life was since forever changed.

His near-death experience is one of the most profound, if not the most profound, afterlife experience I have ever documented. His life was so immensely changed after his near-death experience, he resigned as a professor and devoted his time attending the United Theological Seminary to become a United Church of Christ minister.

Today, Howard Storm is presently happily married to his wife Marcia and is Pastor of the Covington United Church of Christ in Covington, Ohio. During his past time he has maintained his passion for painting but now, unlike in his past, he paints with a God state of mind which raises his paintings to a whole other level.

On this website Pastor Storm shares a unique look at his paintings and the effect Jesus Christ has on his daily life and on his paintings. The following is the account of Pastor Howard Storm's near-death experience.

I was a 38 years old college professor taking some students on a tour of Europe with my wife on a 3 week tour. We were in Paris, precisely 11 am when, I had an acute pain in my stomach. The pain was so excruciating that I was screaming and twisting all over.
PLS GOGGLE AN READ...... JESUS LOVES YOU ALL.

.

And here we have yet another caricature of an atheist. Harsh, angry and cruel as an atheist. Meek and kind as a xtian. Convenient. Reminds me of that fatuous christian movie "God is not dead"

And then we see another fallacy. Becoming a xtian does not make it true. Whether u were a muslim, Hindu or atheist before. He had a chemical-based experience. And so what? No objective evidence, all subjectiVe reasons. In contrast, all who drop their faiths completely do so on the basess of full examination of the facts and facing up to the naked unkind truth; No one is up there watching out for us. We are all alone. We make our own purpose for there is no purpose in Nature.


I am yet to see a religious person who became an atheist because of a near-dEath experience Vision.

Note dt if d man were in India, it would've been Vishnu speaking to him in his visions and our dear fellow would'Ve gone all Hindu on us

This question is very pertinent to all skeptics, agnostics, freethinkers, atheists, deists,pastafarians, secular-humanists or whatever one is comfortable identifying by.

It first started to grow in my mind when I began to have doubts about the unverified truth claims of all organised religions. One day, I was in a church service attending a program for youths. The speaker was going on and on about one new testament verse that goes something like "do not be unequally yoked with an unbeliever". Unbeliever in this context did not mean freethinkers alone. It extends to doubting Thomases, members with poor attendances, "baby xtians", non active members. In some extreme cases some preachers are wary of their members dating xtians of a different denomination. This is popular with the DeeperLife sect. Catholics too are wary of marrying Protestants and it could be argued that this mistrust is stronger when viewed vice- versa.

Now, I know that freethinkers by the Very nature of their belief system and philosophies are not insular like "faith-heads". Because we "think freely" we view all believers as the same and we are likely to date many. Especially if these paramours are only moderately religious. In fact the mere fact that we are still way too few(despite the recent surge in our numbers) means we are more likely to find an attractive christian or moslem, date and even marry one (and maybe divorce one)

Also, many freethinkers happen to drop their faith long after they are dating/gotten married to some person they met at fellowship or church or mosque(how likely is that with the holy separation during worship). They no longer share the same preposterous beliefs but they still love the person wholly. Often times they keep their new thoughts to themselves and even tag along with their spouses to the place of worship, all the while cringing inside!!! Am sure a lot of people will identify with this.

So l am going to turn that bible verse on its head and ask. Should we be unequally yoked with unbelievers? I ask because believers have overflogged this issue. It is most common when a spouse turns his back on a religion.

Does Love change the fact that your partner doubts evolution, believes earth is 6000 yrs, believes Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse, believes many people will perish in an oven for eternity and lives her/his life on many other dastardly and harebrained truth claims?

Well if you are just into kpanshing/friends-with-benefits/ casual dating then beliefs don't matter at all. Feel free to have fun and move on.

But if you are a non-religious fellow spending the rest of your life with a religious person, this is a big deal and even if it's not obvious now it will soon become so and may result in the disintegration/imbalance of a union. The world is full of stories like this. Quick example;an American pastor,Dan Barker who became an atheist was soon divorced by his wife who deeply believed it was her calling to marry a pastor! It was a mutual and non-messy one (many arent')but think of the trauma to the poor kids!Beliefs do matter.

So how do we Handle this? I wanna hear your thoughts.

davien:
It's funny how humans have always been acting as a god/gods mouthpiece for ages immemorial...

"God told me to tell you... "

"God revealed it to me to tell you..."

"God gave me a vision that you.. "

"God directed me to let you know... "

No god/gods ever show themselves to the masses and talks to them directly, only by word of mouth(rumours) or some third party telling you what he thinks god/gods told him/her...

This has always appalled me. I once asked a group of fellas arguing about what god said and how they can discern his voice to shut the hell up. Let this god speak and let everyone hear all at once jare.

Saying "thus saith the lord" is awfully convenient for believers. Especially priests, imams and prophets.

'God' knows we get victimised a lot.(pun intended). Its why many of us, especially in Nigeria keep our atheism under very tight wraps!

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/05/07/a-new-documentary-will-investigate-the-social-stigma-and-civil-rights-aspects-of-atheism/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Annunaki:
But it doesn't explain why men should get 72 virgins and plenty of booze without stating specifically what faithful women will get. Or could it be that islamic heaven is all about mohamed's vulgar fantasies?

But then that is what it is. All of Mohammed's fantasies.

dalaman:
Women are promised unspecified goodies according to my muslim friend here. He said they will be reunited with their earthly husbands. I asked about those that were unmarried. He said the Quran only promised them goodies but didn't specify.

Why can't they just admit the truth? Its okay to say it: the quran does not give a flying Bleep about women. And when it does it is so full of misogyny of thehighest degree possible. I wish more Moslem women would acknowledge that and say despite knowing that, they are still okay with total submission in Islam. That will be a honest appraisal of their faith.

johnydon22:
The longer i remain atheistic the more amazed i am at myself that i once really believed all that myths, fables and superstitions

Same here. Sometimes i do facepalm for myself HOW COULD I?

cloudgoddess:
Actually, when our needs our sufficiently met and our governments are not corrupt, most humans in a society can be expected to act cooperatively. Maladaptive levels of selfishness are usually a result of unmet needs or real/percieved threats. In Japan (a mostly atheist, well-developed country with sound government) a person can put down their purse in a public place, come back in an hour or two, and it will still be there untouched. You can't say the same for somewhere like Nigeria - because people are poor and desperate here, and there is a lack of group cohesiveness due to corrupt government & other underlying societal factors, which are fixable.


Well for one, we were not "created". Our existence was preceded by generations upon generations of pre-modern hominid species. Our selfishness & other "flaws" are precisely a result of that - we are ANIMALS. Animals with advanced prefrontal cortexes and upright motion, the two primary features that allow our incredible capabilities & skills - but still animals nontheless. 50,000 years ago before agriculture was developed & civilizations were erected, we were hunting and gathering and traveling in packs. Without being selfish and competitive our species would have DIED OUT long ago. Self-preservation was absolutely required for us to make it this far.

In the modern day many of our innate drives can be maladaptive, for sure. But there are ways to overcome them - education, mental practice, and societal progress are a few things that can absolutely help us be better for ourselves & our fellow man. No gods required.

One thing that pisses me off about the Abrahamic religions is the demonization of humans & our nature that it must employ, in order to convince us that we are so desperately in need of "saving" from some external source. All of our flaws played an important role at some point. Throwing them under the bus is spitting in the face of all our ancestors who got us here in the first place BECAUSE of their selfishness, aggression, and self-preservation. Not to mention every single advancement in humanity thus far has been made by HUMANS, and when we look around us we can see that altruistic, kind, innovative, and cooperative people are among us who do NOT need gods or hell threats to "keep them in line". We need to erase this dismal view of humanity religion teaches - it's poison.


And this is a meaningful existence to you? A playtoy for an egotistical, murderous & petty invisible man? It sickens me that religion causes people to devalue themselves in such a way.


False. Humans did not come into the picture until 200,000 years ago. Millions of species were flourishing for eons before we came along. Ever heard of dinosaurs?

And all extant animals have progressed from where they were billions of years ago - just because it isn't HUMAN-like progression doesn't mean it isn't progression. There are so many species that could easily destroy an unarmed human with reflexes & strength not even the strongest bodybuilder could muster. Species with eyesight several times the precision & clarity as ours. Species with the ability to survive in environments none of us could bear. As I mentioned earlier, the increased development of our prefrontal cortexes are the ONLY thing that makes us so unique. Other animals have their own unique & valuable features that have enabled them to survive for many more generations than our species has.


Like someone else mentioned, this is precisely why it would be ridiculous to assume that the supposed creator of the trillions of galaxies in this universe would be so concerned with the activities of a single species on a single planet. Especially with such petty and inconsequential details, like how/why/with whom we engage in sex, what we eat & wear, who we give our money too (which itself is a human invention). It makes no sense and is quite frankly just silly when examined from an objective eye. Yahweh, Allah, etc. are an obvious invention from 1st century human beings who had less knowledge of reality than a modern 4th grader.

I could not have said this better. Touché!

gbadexy:
The creator gave us conscience to discern good from bad. There are set rules in all religion of the world about orderliness and good conduct. It doesn't stop man from being selfish.
Man was created with flaws in my opinion though. We are selfish and competitive in nature.
If we are to strictly follow any religious beliefs, then nobody would be saved.
What do you think the purpose of creating man with intelligence Is? The creator made us for His pleasure. For us to glorify and worship Him. It's the fact. It sounds egoist but that's the unclad truth and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
We weren't created to live eat, merry and just die off into oblivion. What sense is in that? Why would a creator bother with creating humans just for them to come do as they pleases and die.
We won't be different from lower animals who aren't given much intelligence and with nothing expected from them. It's the reason they are at the same level they were billions of years ago while we were created at the same period and why they are under us.
You are given intelligence to ponder, and yes, be awed and appreciate nature.
We are created for His pleasure. Live with it. HE does as he wishes and is not accountable to us.
Same way he create some in a wealthy homes or better countries and others in not so desirable place.
When things was tough for me and I felt disappointed with the creator, I made some condemning comments in rebellion and before that day was over, I experienced far worse than I bargained for but was fortunately saved.
You think you know what misery is or disappointment, if the creator really intends purposely to make life miserable for you, dem no go teach you to be looking for God everywhere.
In all, the creator deeply cares about humanity even though I wonder why he cares for our opinion of Him and seem to give man special recognition.
If you have slight idea how inconsequential we are in the scheme of things or how microscopically minute we are in relation to the universe, then you will appreciate better.

That last point is exactly why an unproven and apparently confused creator could not have made and taken special attention in a species of apes. Its pretentious on our part as a species to assume so.

And why would anyone worship a god who wants to be praised all the time? Isn't that a petty god?

OLAADEGBU:
These are the simple reasons why absolute morality cannot comport with atheism. Why should there be objective standard of behaviour universally upheld if the universe and the people therein are simply accidents of nature? The atheistic, evolutionary universe is a place where people are just animals and murder is no different than a lion killing an antelope. And that is why you wouldn't get angry and punish the lion that killed an antelope. If people are just chemical accidents as you want us to believe why would you punish a person who murders another person?

The fact is that human beings are not animals but are valuable and have genuine freedom to make choices, they are also responsible for the choices they make and are bound by a universal objective moral code that come from the Creator God who set up the rules for our behaviours in the first place.

On the contrary, the plethora of moral codes in the diverse cultures of the world proves otherwise; there is no universal objective moral code. Rather, there are many subjective moral codes. For example, In some places a woman who is accused of infidelity may be divorced, in others she may be stoned and in others still, shE and some of her family members may be ostracized. This is just one example.

Besides, a cursory look at human history will reveal a changing moral zeitgeist; the general moral, and cultural climate is never the same. It keeps evolving. No creator gave morals. We humans do. LET me say a bit about slavery.

The bible and koran supported slavery and in numerous points seemed to celebrate slavery as totally okay. But over time, humans started to see that slavery is very offensive and wicked to fEllow humans. Not all humans shared this novel humanistic concept at the same time but slowly and surely, it continued to gain ground. Today, even though some people really still condone slavery and may want it brought back, a majority of humans would definitely condemn it. Including the bible and koran whose pages are full romanticization of slavery. Even Jesus was not moral enough to speak against slavery, neither was st Paul. These people were supposed to speak the wishes of a creator and his morals. Their silence and condoning of slavery reveals the spirit of d timEs.

Now some may start to say dat xtians were a majority of those who started to speak against slavery some using d bible for support (speaking about human kindness), but many xtians also spoke otherwise and supported d bible for it. I see the later group as being more intellectually honest. This large controversy also had a lot to do with d American Civil War. In d end reason won. And let's not forget the numerous freethinkers and humanists who were on d side of abolishing slavery. Good people tend to do good stuff and bad people, bad stuff. But for good people (like d xtians who stood on d side of slavery in those confusing times) to do very wicked stuff, it takes religion and any other dogmatic code of morals


Reason has also won with the world-View on warcrimes, rape, genocide, female genital mutilation, human sacrifice and misogyny; all these are evils which the holy books (that purport to show us the moral code of a one true creator) brazenly supported and embraced. Any reasonable regardless of creed will abhor all these. But the Abrahamic god, Jesus and Mohammed and co. No.

So reason will guide us to make decisions on abortion and other modern confusions. Afterall, no holy book predicted and gave advice about such. And thankfully so.

Let me end with a few questions. If there were no "10 commandments" would you kill and rape and steal? Would you start hurting every one on the road? Funny, 10 commandments never even mentioned rape. Even you know what is good and bad on the basics. Or is it the fear of burning in hell that keeps you from being a murderer or serial rapist?? I don't want to believe so.

OLAADEGBU:
Most of their policies are based on lawlessness and that's where you will see lawless folks gravitating to.

Once people dont subscribe to a brand of patriarchial, overly moralistic religion, they are branded "lawless". Why cant people just allow others to be free when they hurt no one?

Isnt it strange that the "moral" people despise abortions but the lawless are ok with it
isnt it strange that this same moral people believe in letting the terminally ill suffer through pain instead of assisted suicide while those who support euthanasia are branded as lawless. Lets not forget that foetuses are mostly a collection of cells with no consciousness whereas a full grown man is in a sorry state indeed when suffering pain
Isnt it strange that the so called bible thumpers love guns and dont want to see it controlled whereas the somehow lawless care more about the fellow man and want stricter gun control measures.

The list gets more interesting when u get to sex, sexual orientation and the use of some substances like marijuana. Its almost as if you must control other people's lives to be seen as lawful, but anything that waves freedom to people is branded "lawless". Am a Liberal,blood and bone, O yes. Leave me lawless and free

analice107:
Jehovah's Witnesses are not my brothers. They are closet atheists. I believe in the God of Love and at the same time Justice.

Relax, we are all atheists about so many gods jare, some of just just go one god further...there is no closet anything. ...just saying.

OLAADEGBU:
When you come to the end of your superduper gods then you will get to the overall, infinite uncreated Creator. He is the creator of all things.

Lol. And how did this entity come into being? If you say he has always been. Then i ask, why can't you just as well say the Universe has always been ,i.e infinite; Or say "all things" have always been i.e infinite and uncreated? Its cunning and deceptive to just pick an arbitrary point to stop in this game of "cause and effect". Lets be honest.

OLAADEGBU:
If he is different from the uncreated Creator I mentioned earlier then it will be subjective.

See, I was just amused by d whole abraham,isaac,jacob thing. My real ish is with the way theists leap to an uncreated creator or creators. Whether Jewish, Xtian, Islamic, Hindu or African traditional...

The thing is invoking an uncreated Creator creates more problem than it solves. If u say 1 is caused by 2 is caused by 3, u can keep going till infinity and beyond. But saying Diaris a creator is like getting to 4 and saying "ok, everything is caused by 4" .

What stops 4 from being caused by 5 and so on and in the same vein why can't any god be created in the first place by a super god and a super god by a superduper god?

beejaay:
it amuse me thinking about it all together...the sweat and blood, the energy exerted to achieve something and write our names in gold, sleepless night of wanting to arrive, the ego of being the best after we are all gone will eventually be for naught.....
whether we like it or not the earth will someday burst (it doesnt matter when).....of what usefulness is the achievement of Newton, Einstein, Faraday, Aristotle TO Newton, Einstein,Faraday and Aristotle now? we talked and glorify their names 'SO WHAT' (HOW DOES IT BENEFIT THEM NOW?)....
life means nothing because its nothing and we all know this deep down, religions, afterlife, god, satan are created out fear of accepting the true reality

Such a brand of immortality is enough for me. We live, then we die. End of story. Life means nothing, yes. But everyday we make our own meanings out of life. To ourselves, to others we help. Immortality is stretching out to touch the lives of other people positively and it's enough. No need for furnaces or hymn-singing that never Ends-pathetic stuff.

Knowing I as I may never have been born is a beautiful miracle in itself. Many will never be born. (random genetics). Its not Because we are special or anything. Its just that we won a lottery to see all this. We may choose to keep it simple or make it complex. Unfortunately almost everyone has chosen the latter.

And about the obsession of religionists or theists with deathbeds and the afterlife cause they can't fathom death, I ask; where we're u before u were born. No where! U did not exist! And the exact same thing will happen when u die. U gone! Chemicals and all...stop working!

Consider a thought experiment. Say you are in Nigeria. Now there is a whole troop of people in India going about their daily lives. These people don't know you. They ve never heard of u. And unless u do smth outstanding or extraordinary( not that it's compulsory) they never will. They won't lose sleep over you and the globe will keep spinning. Why then are we so pretentious to believe we must continue to Exist in one form or another? Isn't that too pompous a thought? One that has given birth to so many variants on eternity and the afterlife; Each one more ridiculous than the last!!!

SirWere:
I agree.
The way Islam is painted by christians and media, that all Muslims are barbaric animals who want to kill everybody and that the rational amongst them is one in a million...........

Do you think that to be true?

It gets a little Complex from here...

Just like Christianity(which I am more familiar with), which has many sects and subsects, Islam has broadly speaking some form of "MECCA" Islam and "Medina" Islam. Both of this major categories havE numerous subjects too within them.

The mecca subtype focuses more on tradition and customs and Islamic way of life through and through. It even practices a live and let-live kind of Islam. In contrast, The Medina subtype dwells more on jihad both within and without striving for the spread of the faith, and is less interested in letting people of other faiths be.
Looking at the way many Muslims practice their religion u start to see something interesting. Many muslims,even till recently want to just be and be allowed to do their stuff privately. This is okay by us secular-humanists. But this is not enough for the jihadists/medina Muslims. All islamic terrorists belong here. They would prefer to create a world "caliphate" for Allah.

Allow me to further generalise. I know that I am blurring a lot of lines but this may help make things clearer. From here i'll just call mecca muslim, the moderates and the Medina muslims, the extremists.

So in answer to your question. No. Many muslims are moderates. Rational in fact. They are not interestEd in making Islam a world religion. In the interest of pEace, trade and prosperity. They may decide to establish misogynistic,depraved, troubling laws like sharia law as the state law but they are okay like that. E.g Saudi Arabia, Northern Nigeria, Northern Africa etc. On the other hand the extremists just want to see the world burn and won't rest till Islam becomes a world religion or if not at least get to enjoy a few virgins. (I wonder what is interesting about virgins anyway).

But moderates are a problem too sometimes. They may Even sponsor some Extremists and even when they don't sponsor but look on, they are secretly happy at some attacks. The koran which at a point says they should live at peace with "infidels" also states otherwise in countless other places especially the haditH that they should rejoice when "infidels" perish.

Only very few moslEms have reached the level of humanism that is necessary before we can absolve Islam of crimes against humanity. But as of today, in 2016, if you hear of a bomb or kidnapping or any other terrorist act, before you think of niger-delta militants or some obscure group of nationalists all over the world, u are bound to point the finger at Islam and you will be almost likely correct.

Now other religions have their profoundly disturbing issues. But right now extreme Islam is a worldwide emergency. Islam needs a serious reformation in the very least. And pretending otherwise would just be sheer intellectual dishonesty!

polymathic:
You can call the bible anything.. But it is the only TRUTH!!!!!!!

Truth about what??

santori:
and you think the people here will take you serious by reeling out quotes from that book of human imaginations of that times and their lies

I think you should go read this thread from page 1 to this point to be enlightened

He is more concerned about an unproven afterlife, not Enlightenment. If he were, he wouldn't quote from a book arguably more preposterous than Romeo and Juliet or Lord of the Rings. Only that we don't take the latter books seriously.

Will this ever end?

analice107:
oh, Allah talks?

He speaks Japanese or something

H2Ossss:
and they move on to insults when they find out they have no smart comeback statement... hahahahahaha

Insults? Errr...

djdoxxx:
and you know Satan torments with that his long big fork!!!! He's really going to fork all we atheists up

I cant wait...

H2Ossss:
raw evidence huhhh... amputate your legs and come let me pray for you... nothing can be realer than you experiencing it yourself.. at least you will know its not acted.

Sighs some answer. Pray for other things. Like power in Nigeria or bad leadership.Stop sounding silly. It doesn't suit you.

OLAADEGBU:
He is the King of heaven. The Holy One, The Infinite God who is infinite in Knowledge and wisdom. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Why I always think I will hear trumpets and cymbals and thunder or whatever whenever this grand line is invoked, eh? (Scratches head).what of the God of Sarah, Rachel and Ruth and Beyonce

shoyemiayodeji:
Good I guess you have to laugh again in Arabic when u go on Google search for miracles on the above case and come back here to say it is acted .

Save uruhara and me some trouble and give us web links to regrown limbs using the power of a god (he or she or it)

But wait....what is more likely? That a man should lie or a web link or photoshops speak the truth ? I prefer raw evidence and trials to that