SIRTee15: Present your argument or shut up. Don't waste anybody's time here. Your friend brought a so called logical argument praising abolitionist for ending slavery but couldn't explain why the same abolitionists used the bible as motivation to end slavery.
Your other colleague jaephonix claimed it was king George that ended slavery but didn't know same person was the head of the church at his time and criticized those who used the bible to justify slavery. To make things worse, he compared war against slavery to someone beating his wife.
Bunch of illogical jokers claiming atheist. Simple and basic research U won't do.
Una saving grace be internet. None of U can stand me for 5 minutes face to face in any theological argument.
This is the 3rd page of this debate but none of them could answer any of my 2 simple questions.
Why are you giving yourself agita? The Bible was used to justify slavery and was also used to oppose slavery. There is probably more support for slavery in the book than opposition to it. There’s nothing to argue about unless you are the type of Christian who bends over backwards to deny the obvious. Even then your claims can be disregarded.
triplechoice: All of the above is not relevant to why I called you out the first time. So I'm not answering them .Just focus on the main issue so we don't detail the thread.
But don't bother because I can see already thar you're not interested in any sincere conversation but just looking for anything to troll with.
Vagueness doesn’t allow for sincere conversation as evidenced by the “spiritual paths” that “some” choose. They waffle in order to conceal that their musings are pure piffle.
triplechoice: And I asked again, if it's common knowledge that the Bible symbolically represents certain ideas for some outside christianity why were you acting as if you don't know this by forcing your own literal interpretation to what was being presented as that?
Of course it’s common knowledge that some things in the Bible represent something symbolically for people outside, and also within, Christianity. You are the one acting as if it’s a new discovery.
It was glaringly obvious that my literal interpretation of “land filled with milk and honey” was mockery. Regardless of the mockery, the phrase simply means a fertile land for farming, which of course is mundane. But keep the delusion going though.
StillDtruth: It is you who is so evil that of course every Judgment against evil people like you makes you shout out in pain and frustration like a thief on the day He is Caught red handed for you thought you were too smart and had escaped with your crimes.
Which reasonable person cannot see that a good Ruler must be an enemy of evil and is a Just Judge who must give damages to a complainant?
Only atheists do not appreciate Law, Just is and.Judgment.
jaephoenix: Yahweh clearly instructed Israelites to raid cities and capture their citizens for slavery, and take their virgins for themselves. That is forced labor and sexual assault Keep dodging the truth
Christians and Jews (inherently duplicitous) are so delusional. They can see all the atrocities in Islam and can open their mouths to criticize people like Boko Haram; BUT, the bloodlust and madness in their religion are glossed over and excused. They will rightly criticize Boko Haram, but when the same behavior is pointed out in their scriptures, they twist themselves into pretzels trying to justify the same behavior.
If one isn’t delusional and read some of those so called scriptures, one would realize that the Hebrew god is a repulsive creature created by greedy people, Moses would be called a terrorist, and Jesus would be viewed, ACCURATELY, as nothing more than a cult leading charlatan.
adeniyi65: Islam tried to mitigate or subdue in some cases. But it still accept having non believers as slavery but regulates their treatment. My question still remain, why should God who creates human want some in captivity of others. Irrespective of how lenient Islam stand on slavery, nothing is there to write about on the subjugation of girl/women right. It's like both religions have their different concentration on horror.
If abolitionist haven't fought tooth and nail to end slavery. Religion might still be smiling at it today. Thank you.
The answer is simple. Avaricious and violent types found the use of force to steal the labor and property of others to be a beneficial thing for them. They made slavery a standard their religions and customs to protect their own selfish interests. A god allows what its creators agree with; therefore, the god in the Bible’s character is a reflection of the people that created it. The sooner you realize that gods are just characters in stories or are just plain old nonsense, the quicker you can solve your dilemma. In short, god didn’t say shit.
triplechoice: I won't be replying to your other lengthy reply because they're not relevant to the main issue I raised which you have succeeded in deflecting from with your numerous strawman arguments that has resulted in you asking the above question which is not in anyway related to the topic of Judaism having a different viewpoint to biblical stories. However I will touch on some of the things you said.
Lol, the one with the straw man arguments is you.
triplechoice: You have finally admitted above , in the reply I said was lengthy,after pretending, that you know this fact about Judaism when you asked, "who doesn't that know Judaism has a different viewpoint"?
You assumed that the differences between Judaism and Christianity was unknown to me, which is funny because it is common knowledge. Lol, seriously!
triplechoice: If it's true you truly know it, why harassing the Op at the beginning who wanted to present something that agrees with that you claim to know so well?
He is about to put out his own ideas about Judaism and I can mock it all I want. Why is the even a discussion?!
triplechoice: I don't believe you're telling the truth. You're only claiming to know it after the fact and there's evidence to prove this.
I wouldn’t put much stock into what you believe.
triplechoice: When the Op personified the earth as "giving mud and sticks" , you immediately picked on that to label him as "infantile and insane" when in fact, going by your behaviour there, you're the one who perfectly fits that description as you don't know that a metaphoric statement requires a non literal interpretation.
It is infantile and insane; which also applies to you. What is the of the metaphor supposed to convey? “Mud and stick magically turned into flesh and bone when the god breathed into the nostrils of the mud-stick man” lol, that’s the type bullshit he has in mind. Mud and stick! What a joke. He should also add grass. Mud, stick, and fucking grass. Lol
triplechoice: So going by the above,how do you then reconcile your behavior towards the Op with what you just admitted about Judaism, that it has a different viewpoint to biblical stories ?
Lmao, the op was never about Judaism’s viewpoint, which can also be varied like every other religion. It’s about the op giving his own peculiar viewpoint about Judaism based on his understanding of symbolism. You are the one that introduced ATR, Buddhism, and Christianity into the topic.
triplechoice: As for the question you asked me about ATR, I won't be answering them.
Of course you won’t!! There is no ATR. Now, if you want to pick a certain belief from the continent to illustrate, you are welcome to. I deleted the rest of the verbose nonsense.
triplechoice: And finally, it's your own baseless opinion that their secret teachings are nonsense or bullshit Since you started saying that, not for once have you provided relevant data to support your criticism.
Their teachings, if fantastic, are inherently nonsense. If the teaching is allegorical, the interpretation is ALWAYS mundane. I do not have to provide any relevant data that their beliefs are baseless. If their teachings could stand up to scrutiny they wouldn’t rely on cloaks and daggers. All that razzle dazzle just fools the gullible; like you.
triplechoice: Meaning that,you have been speculating wildly about what you're in the dark about and using it to mock as if you know something. SMH.
I’m not speculating or in the dark. I just don’t give no quarters to fantasy. I can mock because their beliefs are absurd. There is nothing profound about the conmen and their secrecy.
triplechoice: If you don't want to focus main issue, please let's end this conservation as we have been derailing the thread no thanks to your uncountable deflections.
You are the one that attempted to derail the thread by playing lawyer to the insane.
triplechoice: I have explained to the extent I wanted to explain but you're not seeing it because the word, vague appears to be the only thing that readily comes to your mind when you read them. In any case I just explained they're not relevant. It's distracting from the main thing.
You didn’t explain anything. Vague describes your claims perfectly.
triplechoice: The "some" I said are spiritual paths that don't take the stories or fantastic tales which they tell as literally true. I won't mention names here. If you want to know as around or search for them yourselves
Vaaaaaaggggggggguuuuuueeeeeeeee.
triplechoice: Their membership cuts across, both the mighty and the ordinary. Your friend , neighbor etc. But ,I have asked you to start with ATR Oh , you said you're in is position to know. So why asking me what you should know?
MY LEPRECHAUN IS ALSO A MEMBER.
Stay with ATR, he says. Then he says:
triplechoice: As for the question you asked me about ATR, I won't be answering them.
triplechoice: Mainstream scientists said so before neural plasticity was observed in the brain of Buddhist monks who are adept in meditating for far longer hours. You can research and come back to prove me wrong. I will be waiting. Thank you.
The phrase “mainstream scientist” is enough to disregard your claims. Regardless, neural plasticity and meditation are not fantastic so what is your point? Now if the Buddhist or you claim that some fantastic elements are involved in neural plasticity, then it would be bullshit.
Botragelad: Iran's showing some fear here, and it's laughable. They've been backing terrorists to attack Israel, yet they claim not to want a war with Israel.
The Israeli Air Force is currently annihilating Hezbollah targets, taking out key figures hiding in Lebanon. By the time Israel's done, those buildings will be left with nothing but rubble. They had plenty of chances to stop their antics, but they thought they could just spin their usual propaganda online after attacking Israel. Not this time. Enemies of Israel will face total destruction.
There will be another, well deserved, holocaust within your lifetime with you and yours maimed or killed. Keep going. Dead Jews littering synagogues is in the near future. You vermin already live in fear and it warms my heart to see just how much security the synagogue down the block from me needs to feel safe. Fucking hilarious.
triplechoice: Not original in the sense you think of . I don't need to repeat myself because I already explained what I meant by original when compared with Christianity. Christianity is a misrepresentation of Judaism and that's why adherents there don't have much regard for Christians .They mock them as foolish . And that may be one of the reasons we have more Christians in neighboring Palestine than in Israel [\quote]
Given your definition of what’s original and what’s unoriginal, there is still no difference because the claims remain fantastic. Judaism is inherently hateful so their behavior is not surprising to me and their disregard of Christianity is inconsequential to me.
[quote author=triplechoice post=132137874]I did. I mentioned initiates and non initiates. The process for initiation in these other groups is not the same as baptism in Christianity. And so , it's wrong to label them as fantastic when you have no single clue about what they do or teach their members. There"re some religious groups or spiritual paths that are almost atheistic in the way they operate. Atheist who are unaware of this fact are the ones who take delight in generalising that every religion is the same.
Name, compare, and contrast instead of referring to vague groups. I can label them fantastic when they make fantastic claims. Nevertheless, being atheistic doesn’t prevent the belief in fantastic ideas as seen in Buddhism. Take the last part up with atheists who say every religion is the same. I’m not one.
triplechoice: Modern Buddhism,for instance has no concept of a supreme deity they belief in or worship and there's also no hell fire.But most atheist here like to talk of a Buddhist God or hell when trying to compare it with Christianity.
Discuss it with the atheists.
triplechoice: I read that almost all the time here. Visit most of the threads created by atheist on this board to criticize religion in general and see how they only focus on Christianity or Islam because that's the only thing they know and are familiar with . Even ATR in their backyard they don't know.
What is this so called “African Traditional Religion” you speak of? Christianity and Islam qualify as “traditional religion” when you think of it. Isn’t Christianity essentially European Traditional Religion? Nevertheless, of course they would focus on what they are familiar with because the ones they are unfamiliar with or weren’t indoctrinated into have already been categorically dismissed; therefore what they are left to grapple with are the familiar or the ones they have been indoctrinated into.
triplechoice: "Yes, they're all made up but not made up exactly the same way for you to generalise about them . I think you just don't want to accept that apart from Islam or Christianity, there's nothing much you know of any other spiritual paths or religion.
You are wrong, I don’t know much about Islam but I don’t need to know much of what they belief to disregard a religion. So called spiritual paths or religion are based on some philosophy or the other and a bunch of fantastic elements. The philosophy may be sound or unsound, while the fantastic elements can be disregarded outright unless the can interpret any allegorical meaning.
triplechoice: If you know ,I will see it. . What you have been doing is to reference the Christianity and its practices each time you want to give an example of what a religion or spiritual path should be. I am yet to see any evidence that you know much apart from Christianity.
I also used the Judaism you seem to favor, which is appropriate given the op.
triplechoice: .But of course, what you know about those representations is what you have read from a book or Googled which is not enough to make you understand it the way it should be understood just like those directly involved in it.
If I gathered you and nine of those directly involved in it, I would get 13 different ideas presented as the right understanding.
triplechoice: 2. I never wrote vaguely, but only talk about it from the surface level.
So……….you spoke vaguely.
triplechoice: I mentioned ATR as the place to go to if you want to know how people through spiritual practices align themselves with certain forces in nature and what they truly believe in different from what the public assumes.
What is this African Traditional Religion you speak of and what are “spiritual practices”? What are the “certain forces in nature”?
triplechoice: You don't expect me to detail for you what I have been privileged to know through close association on a public forum like this, what they keep as close guarded secret.
Secrecy in religion is the attempt to make the mundane and the ridiculous appear profound.
triplechoice: That will be irresponsible behaviour and a betrayal of trust. If you want to know get closer to them, and if need be get an initiation so all is reveal to you and be shocked about what others know that you don't.
Whatever. The idea that these conmen know something unique or have some insight is a joke. I don’t need an initiation to know that.
triplechoice: If you had truly undertaken enough investigation of ATR, you wouldn't have mentioned some of the things you have said so far here. I didn't describe ATR as anything. I only mentioned it to highlight the fact that what they believe in and practice is unlike Judaism which you assume I am venerating and placed above every other one. I don't rate Judaism as much as you think.[\quote]
You haven’t even specified what this ATR talk less of whatever investigation you undertook.
[quote author=triplechoice post=132137874]You mentioned the Catholic Church because that's the only one you think is closer to what I have explained.
Well, they are the most successful con so they remain a good example.
triplechoice: If I value Judaism so much as you assume,I will do t everything to join them . But I'm not interested. There's a reason I mentioned them and I don't need to repeat myself. Or have you forgotten so soon how this conversation started?
Still, you fail to show how it’s so called originality sets it apart from Christianity.
triplechoice: You don't have any access to it and so not in a position to qualify as nonsense what you're unaware of. Your bullshit description is baseless.
I’m in a very valid position to qualify it as nonsense. Fantastic claims are inherently wild and baseless. There is nothing fantastic about my view.
triplechoice: 1. Judaism is not a perfect example of what I have been explaining
You haven’t explained anything.
triplechoice: When I talked of initiation secrets I never had judaism in mind but AT R and some other paths i haven't mentioned . There's not much hidden in judaism. What they believe in and practice is for the most part accessible to the public..
How do you know that there isn’t much hidden in Judaism. It has its “secrets” too!! Still don’t know what your ATR is.
triplechoice: I will remind you again that the only reason I mentioned Judaism was to let you know they have a different viewpoint to biblical narratives recorded in the old testament. That's all.
So what? Who doesn’t know that Judaism has a different view of the so called Old Testament?
triplechoice: Hehehehe. No they're not that, but people who have earn the right to know certain secrets about life which they use for their own benefit and those close to them.
Lmao. Secret nonsense.
triplechoice: That's exactly the point I'm driving at but you're not paying attention and like distracted student in class you have gotten it all wrong . The originator of the stories in the Bible never meant for their work to be taken as literally true. Christians were the ones who started the nonsense of giving a literal interpretation to what they shouldn't and that's why groups like the creationist movement have sprung up and been searching stupidly for evidence of the garden of Eden in the middle east.
Why act as if literal interpretation of religious stories is somehow unique to Christianity?
triplechoice: The promised land claims in Judaism has been used and still being used for land grabbing by political leaders in Israel.
So they are using it as originally intended and how it has been used by other avaricious types. What’s the difference between these genocidal Israelis and the people searching for the garden of eden? Haven’t both decided on literal interpretations?
triplechoice: I believe it's not the same thing the Op has in mind. I'm familiar with what he wants to discuss about the "symbolic promised land" from having read about it in a book very long time ago. I may be wrong though. It's possible he has another interpretation. So let's hear from him first before jumping into conclusions.
Again, I’m not preventing him from writing whatever bullshit he wants.
triplechoice: Entity suggest a being while force is synonymous with energy and that's what I'm talking about.
Do you mean energy the same way physicists describe it?
triplechoice: I said you not paying attention. What I explained was something I said the ancients proposed So the talk of them acquiring enough knowledge about dark matter and dark energy doesn't apply to them . May be you want to resurrect them to teach about what's currently known in the sciences.
Frankly, you haven’t explained anything but make vague claims.
triplechoice: Which of the "some "did I specify for you?
Which is why I asked which “some” you are referring to.
triplechoice: You should understand that sometimes before science comes to provide rational explanation for phenomenon there are people who already have what is labeled as spiritual explanation in some quarters for the same thing but not detailed enough to be taken as scientific explanation.
For instance, long before science accepted the possiblity of neural plasticity in the brain, Buddhist monks already knew through their meditative practices that it was possible to effect changes in one's brain to change behavior or learn new things way past the age scientists once believed it was no longer possible for that to happen.
So, am I supposed to be impressed by the observation that is apparent? Pray tell, who are these scientists who once believed it’s impossible to learn things past certain age.
triplechoice: My friend, truth is not the exclusive preserve of any group . Chinua Achebe the late popular story teller, said in his book , Things fall apart " that "life is like a masquerade dance. If you want to enjoy the show you don't stand in one place "[/quote{
What’s with the strawman and what does this have to do with anything?
[quote author=triplechoice post=132137874]I see that you have chosen a position from which you want to view all of life from and don't care if you "enjoy the show" like others want to . Enjoy yourself if that's what you want. i
Oh, I am enjoying the show. What position do you speak of?
triplechoice: I said "force" not entity. So we're not saying the same thing.
Whether “force” or “entity”; I still don’t know what you’re talking about.
triplechoice: The visible universe is no doubt expanding .Science has confirmed that for us already . But the question is ,what's behind this expansion?
The same method of acquiring knowledge that resulted in the discovery will be the same method that answers the question. Maybe when they acquire enough knowledge about dark matter and dark energy astronomy present an idea.
triplechoice: What is the exact nature of this force or energy ,which some have described as intelligent, that's responsible for the ever expanding universe?
Which “some” have described this force or energy as intelligent? Do these “some” have any expertise in astronomy. I doubt it.
triplechoice: 1. I used the word, false, because both Christianity and Islam are false representation of the original they copied from.
Oh really?! So Judaism that they borrowed from is original?
triplechoice: 2. Your "so called Initiates" description tells me you're still using what you know of Islam and Christianity especially, to interprete what I already explained about Initiates and non initiates of "authentic" or original spiritual paths .
You didn’t explain anything nor did you mention any “authentic” or “original spiritual paths”. Whether you consider them “false” or “authentic”, at the end of the day, they are all fantastic.
triplechoice: And there"re no such congruence that you have imagined. Yes both might share some belief but the understanding is never the same. While the non initiates are made to believe a real god or gods exist, in,the initiates who are well informed know that no such deities exist exactly they way it's described within the group. Deities in ART are simply a personification of forces in nature which the try to align themselves with through certain ritual practices.
Of course there is congruence. Since it’s all made up, some will naturally agree with each other while others disagree.
triplechoice: Deities in ART are simply a personification of forces in nature which the try to align themselves with through certain ritual practices.
Claims like the above are simply jargon unless you explain these “forces in nature” and how these people “align themselves through certain ritual practices”. I’m aware of a few personifications of nature represented in religion and if I were to give an example, I wouldn’t write vaguely like you did.
triplechoice: You will have to undertake an investigation of some of these other groups to understand better what I have been explaining . You can start from Judaism or ART. Christianity won't help you at all.
I’ve undertaken enough investigation to know that Judaism or ART isn’t less fantastic than the others. There is no hierarchy of validity in religion so your ridiculous veneration of judaism is absurd.
triplechoice: Your mention of the Catholic Church proves right what I said about you above. You're still seeing things through the lens of Christianity.
The Catholic happen to be the most successful of these ideas and my use of them is because of the well know pomp and pageantry. They are the perfect example of pretending that the mundane is profound. I could use the rabbinate and their Midrash as another example of such behavior since you value Judaism so much
triplechoice: Yes, it's possible to stumble on some initiation secrets of these other groups through close association with its initiates,but not enough to know everything that goes on within the inner circle.
It’s all bullshit! That’s the point. The so called imitation secrets do not matter
triplechoice: And if you have the courage to tell them what you have discovered about what they do secretly,they will never admit or confirm it for you.
It doesn’t matter what they do secretly or if they confirm or deny. I don’t care what the initiates of Judaism believe when I know their claims are fantastic. And if they also acknowledge “secretly” that their claims are fanciful, then the only people they are fooling would be the laity and other gullible people.
triplechoice: It's deserving of condemnation to the modern public who don't know the true purposes for those narration.
So the initiates are conmen? Yea?
triplechoice: And no, the messages won't be distorted. What we can learn from snow-white, Macbeth or even more Harry Potter is never distorted by what we read or watch.
But no one claims Snow White, Macbeth, Harry Potter are real. No one creates and sustains conflict using them as support neither so they are poor comparisons.
But the ideas in Judaism such as the “promised land” nonsense can be taken literally (like the apartheid state does) or “symbolically” like the OP claims he does.
triplechoice: I see where you're coming from, but try to understand that, apart from Islam and Christianity which are both false religious constructs, every other religion or most of them hold on to two messages or storyline,one for the public and the other for the initiates.
I don’t think the idea of “false religious construct” is valid given that there is no criteria to determine whats a false or true religion. Regarding the varied ideas held by the public and the initiates, we can also argue that there is congruence amongst their beliefs and even intra-group divisions as seen when the so called initiates start disagreeing about doctrine.
triplechoice: If you're not an initiate of some of these religious groups or spiritual paths that hide their true teachings from the public, you won't accept what they tell you is the actual meaning behind the tale they tell non initiates like yourself.
You can always discover what they belief and what they symbolism and allegories mean. Regardless, their attempts at secrecy and mystery is nothing but an attempt to turn the mundane or anbsurd into the profound. The Catholic Church is favorite example of this
triplechoice: It won't make sense to you because your innocent mind just can't accept that a story that's deserving of condemnation should be used by anyone to pass across a positive message. But that's what they do and will continue to do.
If the story is deserving of condemnation, then whatever message it aims to send will be distorted. It’s a successful con so it will continue.
triplechoice: Creation stories,AKA origin myths were used by the ancients to teach people of those times that the world has a begining and that it has proceeded from a singular intelligent force which is still sustaining it . The nature of this force,it was believed by them, is to seek for expansion in the visible universe ,bringing with it the evolution of every single life form it has "created"
In other words, there's no God that created the world. The singular force which is responsible for the "creation " and expansion and still expanding universe is what was personified by the ancients as God.
This is the staggering truth the average religious person whose mind has been programmed to worship an imaginary diety he thinks exist somewhere will never accept..
That’s just one school of thought amongst many. Some also had the idea that this singular entity was a combination of three essences (the Christian trinity is a corruption of this) etc.
Regardless, everything is a part of the same fabric ,call it universe or god or whatever else. That much is obvious. It’s not really their fault that they have been programmed but it’s irksome when the programming requires them to spread the ignorance.
sonmvayina: We will start the journey from Egypt (Ignorance of self) to the promised land (knowledge of self and higher consciousness) this weekend...
Stay tuned
1.) Why denote Egypt as ignorance and the “promised land” as knowledge?
2.) What kind of ideology begins by denigrating some other people out of the gate?!!
3.) If the “promised land” is really symbolism why are some European Jews and Christians before them taking it literally instead of realizing that it’s just “symbolism”?
sonmvayina: Genesis 1-3 describe the creation of the universe and in particular the earth. Whether you believe in evolution or creation, you are right....
Compare “creation” to “creation”. Comparing one particular story of so called creation to evolution is a false dichotomy and evolution is also not in the same class as “creation”.
Why do you think it's fair to continue to troll sonmwayina after he has announced to you, that for him those stories in the Bible stand for something else and he's not taking them as factual events that happened in the past. He said they are symbolic representation of messages or teachings he wants to detail here.
Every informed person knows that Christians , especially the fundamentalist amongst them , are the ones who take Biblical accounts has factually true. Moderate Christians and adherents of Judaism, from which Christianity sprang from ,have a completely different viewpoint.
And from what I have read so far here in this thread,the Op certainly belongs to the latter group .
Sorry to say, your criticism of him is misplaced Please allow him finish what he started before criticising and judging him as "infantile" or insane.
I’m not stopping him from finishing what he started nor will I stop trolling him. However, the notion that “ those stories in the Bible stand for something else and he's not taking them as factual events that happened in the past” is laughable because he has shown multiple times that he takes the stories as factual until he finds it convenient to claim symbolism; just like the rest of them. This is a person who once wrote that “kill everyone and take the virgins” means “take wisdom”. That’s the level of symbolism to expect. Maybe I’m harsh by calling him infantile or insane is not rally far fetched.
Besides, there are verifiable interpretations of some of these symbolisms, which none of them ever even get close to realizing.
Seun: I can't take my eyes off the conflict going on in Israel. I was raised to believe that the Jewish God is the true God. The Old Testament we studied is part of the Jewish scripture. Our bible heroes like Moses and David were Jewish heroes. Israeli music touches me because the language sounds so familiar, from all the bible reading.
When I heard that Israel was invaded by Hamas fighters from Gaza and they went from door to door shooting civilians for HOURS, I was shocked and disgusted. Then I learned that they were not just killed, they were tortured. Men, women and children were defiled, mutilated, kidnapped, blown up, had hands and legs chopped off, eyes gourged out, etc. while the Palestinian invaders laughed at them. I was disgusted with Hamas, but also disappointed with the Israel Defence Forces, and Netanyahu, who totally failed to protect their civilians.
We were totally on Israel's side at this point because what happened to their civilians was unforgivable. They surrounded Gaza and started pounding "Hamas targets". Within a short period of time, thousands of Palestinians had been killed. We started getting concerns when the bombing didn't stop. They just kept bombing everything. It was becoming difficult to believe that the same Israel army that was totally unaware that Hamas was planning a massive invasion suddenly knew the location of every Hamas operative in Gaza and was targeting them precisely.
Then we started to take note of the words of the Israeli leaders. The comment about blocking food and water from Gaza because the Palestinians are "human animals". The confession by the air force that they were focused on inflicting "maximum damage, not accuracy". Which means they didn't care about collateral damage anymore. Some of them talked about flattening Gaza and nuking Gaza. They were openly questioning the notion of innocent civilians in Gaza. Suggesting that the civilians deserved to die because they support Hamas. Netanyahu called them Amalekites, the tribe that God commanded the Jews in the bible to totally destroy - men, women, children, and animals.
At this point only muslim countries were complaining about Israel's actions. Western countries supported Israel's "right to defend itself".
Then we learned that Israel uses AI to choose targets and about half or more of them were "power targets" which were destroyed primarily to shock and dismay the Palestinians and not because destroying them had any military value. They intentionally demolished residential high rise buildings, the parliament building, university faculties, schools, etc. They used massive 2,000 pound bombs which increased the collateral damage. They drove Gazans out of their homes in the north into refugee camps in the south, which often got bombed. Nowhere in Gaza was safe. They stripped surviving men naked, blindfolded them, tied their hands, and called them terrorists.
Western countries started to change their tone. Joe Biden and Macron openly said that Israel was bombing Gaza indiscriminately. The US said that most bombs Israel dropped in Gaza were dumb bombs. Western newspapers started conducting investigative reports exposing Israel's atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank. Then we learned that Israeli soldiers shot at 3 of their own escaped hostages, who had removed their shirts, and were waving a white flag on a stick. One of them ran into a building and they followed him there and shot him dead despite his pleas of mercy in Hebrew. They only realised that they made a mistake because one of the men had red hair, which is unusual for a Palestinian.
This is where we are today: Nobody believes that Israel is the moral army that they claimed to be. Nobody believes that they are precisely targeting Hamas fighters. Nobody believes that the government of Netanyahu and Ben Gvir genuinely wants peace. Everyone, not just the muslims, now believes that Israel's goal is to drive Palestinians out of Gaza (some of their officials have said it). The Economist openly called for Netanyahu to be fired. The US actually denied their request for attack helicopters, which is a first. That may have gotten to them, because they recently admitted that the missiles they used on a refugee camp were inappropriate and caused unnecessary civilian casualties.
However, Israelis are still in post October 7 rage mode. They can't understand why the world is against them after what Hamas did to them. They are not interested in conceding anything to the Palestinians for peace. Netanyahu will be removed for failure, but his replacement is unlikely to be a leftist hippie. Palestinians, on the other hand, support Hamas more than they did before, so peace looks very unlikely.
Hope you are getting paid for the pervasive Zionist Jew propaganda on this site. If the modern day Nazis want to promote their atrocities as “defending themselves”, at least let it cost them some lucre.
Botragelad: Now I just thought I'd clarify this again, and Again for those who aren't familiar with history or don't want to do their research. Here I will be talking about the whole Israel and Palestine issue. Please take your time to read.
Israel, the Jewish people, have always existed long before gaining independence, and archaeologists and DNA confirm this. The Roman Empire conquered Judea in 63 BCE, renaming it 'Palestine' to erase Jewish identity, causing most Jews and indigenous Israelites to flee, leaving a minority behind.
The so-called 'Palestinians' are mainly Arabs who migrated from other countries and settled in Israel. Renaming a territory doesn't make it yours; the Roman name change didn't change the fact that it's still Israel's land, just like an invaded land remains yours despite name changes or new populations, and Israel can always claim it back.
Coming to now. Here's a brief overview:
P.S: Pay attention to the bolded words!
Nlfpmod Seun mukina2 Justwise Fergie001 nlfpmod
Lmao.
What’s the difference between a Zionist jew and a Nazi?
Mathewrichard99: You are perfectly right but why talking as if you have the authority as the spokesperson for Israel.
Because he obviously is a Jew whose job is to spread propaganda or some other jew sycophant paid to spread propaganda with the aid of a bot.
The cunt’s name is Bot Rage Lad; probably based in England.
@Seun. I hope you are getting paid for hosting Israeli propaganda. Nothing is free. They don’t even care about the people on your site. Look at the gruesome things they post without a care that people may be traumatized. https://www.nairaland.com/8216106/more-graphic-photos-hezbollah-members
Padipadi: There's a large follower of Islam that hates Jews and Christianity. The origin is jihad war. Sadly, everyone that's not a moslems is seem as an enemy. It's happening to traditionalists too (look at the issue of Isese Festival of last year that traditionalists were banned in Ilorin, Kwara State). And Allah didn't create only moslems. We are to live in peace or in pieces! Terrors sponsors and members are learning in pieces! So whoever said Jews and Christians should not do their life will see wrath of Almighty Allah. Wisdom is profitable to direct alla mankind that peace has no good substitute. Those Islamic countries that learned the hard way in the past like Egypt should educate these mofo terrorists that there's no 72 virgins worth dying like chickens for. They're suffering double jeopardy worldwide by dying in sin as a terrorist and still going to hell!
I just love to see the results of the propaganda that Muslims hate Jews. Meanwhile, the reality is that the crisis in Israel/Palestine/Lebanon is because Christians murdered so many Jews in Europe that they ran to Palestine.
sonmvayina: Chapter 2 tells us that the earth provided the dust and sticks for making the body and bones...which is also the same motif found in all creation myths around the world.
You people have to grow up sometime. Holding fast to fairy tales is childlike. Infantile people. “Dust and sticks” lmao you MUST be insane
sonmvayina: Tomorrow we will start from the very beginning...and take Genesis 1-3.
It is interesting to not that the authors did not add the chapters and verses...so we will take the story group by group...and progress till we reach the promised land. Wainy..it's here.
Here’s god chilling in his garden before creating the two naked simpletons. This was before he wiped out the first creation by snapping his fingers. sYmboLiSm
AntiChristian: Abraham is from which tribe and nation?
Noah is from which tribe and nation?
Jonah is from which tribe and nation?
They were all Muslims!
But this is beyond your brain grade!
Lmao. This is quite shameless. Everyone knows Muslims are the late comers of the abrahamic trinity of bullshit so why are you claiming those characters were Muslims?
Ojuntana: 3. More importantly, for those verses you quoted, I need to remind you that those are admonition of Paul the Apostle to slaves, most of whom are voluntary slaves. Jesus never owned slaves. As a matter of fact, he died to save us from slavery to sin. So if you accept Jesus as superior to Muhammad in conduct and behaviour and you want us to debate between Paul and muhammad, you are most welcome.
Voluntary slaves. Lmao Jesus didn’t need slaves because he had a cult and also performed magic.
Christianity Etc › Re: God Ordains Slavery by KnownUnknown: 9:02pm On Sep 25, 2024
