₦airaland Forum

Jokerman:
Hell Fire (Hades) is the present abode of Devil, fallen angels and demons.

It was created by God Almighty as punishment to those angelic beings. Now these angelic beings knowing that they have been defeated and cannot win God and go to heaven again (after the resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ to Heaven)....
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Because of this, the devil and his agents has decided to fight against man with his wrath.... Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The Devil Deceives man by making man go against the will of God and rebelling God his creator. The devil knows no unclean thing will see God....
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

The end of game of the devil's deception through worldly desires to man is destruction: John 10:10a: The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy:

And the destruction is Hell Fire first where the soul is destroyed in torments, and then the Lake of Fire where both the body and soul will be cast into for greater torments at the second resurrection

Why is death and hell thrown into the lake of fire as shown in Revelation 20:14 in the screenshot below?

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Lucifyre:
They're both full of crap. Myopic dumb and ignorant christai ns that point fingers without looking at themselves. Last i checked ur genocidal maniac of a god did all and even more than the muhammad u paint black, and u all say jesus is god. Basically 2 rotten sides of the same corroded coin.

Alright....so how can the world be peaceful without these two religions?

StillDtruth:
Oh you mean you place skate boards and bicycles in the same category as trailers and containers? You just abuse and insalt yourself

Jws and catholics are the biggest bible carrying Liars (trailers and containers) and no reasonable compares a trailer to a bicycle or even a car.



Its like they born you yesterday.

Is attack the problem? No

or that an attack is valid as justified by the multitude of unbiased and reasonable people attacking? Yes.

Everyone is attackable but not every attack is valid.

Alright.....do you personally say lies here on nairaland whether it is the "bicycle" or "Trailer" type of lies that all religions and denominations says according to you?

StillDtruth:
You already know that there is none!

Alright... good....it therefore means that every other religions are in the same category as the JWs and Catholics.

Now, I notice you teach religious ideas here on nairaland.
Do you speak the truth and never get attacked?

StillDtruth:
So, no issue here.



I don't know if the op os jw, but i think this thread also.followed a kumuyi thread another denomination where he said something similar and he got the knocks and attacks.

Same for when Adeboye says shit and also when catholics speak.

So any and all denos are attacked when they Lie.

And in Lies, jws and catholics are the biggest because they and lies are personally merged so when identified persons speak, we know it comes from their buckets of Lies hence immediate attack.

Ok good with your observations.....
do you know any religion or denomination that does not lie and is not attacked?
If yes, please mention.

StillDtruth:
Nairaland is full of neutral bible discussions. But who here is disturbing this peace of neutrality by drawing attention to your group? No other than jw mad max.

And this is in addition to.the fact that jws are liars, which as you see everyone, including muslims and atheists attacks them and points out the fact that you people are Liars.

And instead of madmax to just run.away in shame, he continues to Lie and twist thereby racking up more attacks and insalts.

So it is jw madmax who sets jw up for abuse

You just made a claim here that the JWs are liars....well you may have a point.

Do you know Any religion or denomination that does not lie and is never attacked by any group?

Would it be fair and right as a Christian to expose only the group that lies and not tell us the group that does not lie?

If you are not going to tell us the group or religion that does not lie, would that not mean that there is actually no group or religion that says the truth?

Tetraozonaitera:
Yes the 1 Corinthians calls Him wisdom of God but the other one did not.

Anyways, Only Maxim.. Knows why he referred to the book of Proverbs because it seems like an off point to me. Although I had responded to him.
The Proverbs verse he quoted was not about the Word,(Jesus) Reading from the beginning of the chapter proves that.

Which other one did not call Jesus the wisdom of God?

So do you confirm that the pulpit commentary from bible hub is also wrong?

Tetraozonaitera:
I love this. Im looking into it. Response later.

Alright.

Tetraozonaitera:
You are wrong bro.
Why read from verse 22?
Why not from the beginning of the chapter for better understanding?

You dont just jump into conclusion like that.
That was not the Word speaking.
That was WISDOM speaking.

The book is a book of divine poems. The writer was a poet. He personalized WISDOM and if you read from the beginning you will understand better.
Dont Just Take What Watchtower says hook-and-sink just because of the respect you have for them. To JW, whatever Watchtower says is FINAL but to true Christians it is not supposed to be so. The Bible is written in several languages so that no one will have the excuse of saying I dont understand.

‭‭PROVERBS 8:13-20 NIV‬‬

[13] TO FEAR THE LORD IS TO HATE EVIL; I HATE PRIDE AND ARROGANCE, EVIL BEHAVIOR AND PERVERSE SPEECH.

[14] COUNSEL AND SOUND JUDGMENT ARE MINE; I HAVE INSIGHT, I HAVE POWER.

[15] BY ME KINGS REIGN AND RULERS ISSUE DECREES THAT ARE JUST;

[16] BY ME PRINCES GOVERN, AND NOBLES—ALL WHO RULE ON EARTH.

[17] I LOVE THOSE WHO LOVE ME, AND THOSE WHO SEEK ME FIND ME.

[18] WITH ME ARE RICHES AND HONOR, ENDURING WEALTH AND PROSPERITY.

[19] MY FRUIT IS BETTER THAN FINE GOLD; WHAT I YIELD SURPASSES CHOICE SILVER.

[20] I WALK IN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, ALONG THE PATHS OF JUSTICE,

https://bible.com/bible/111/pro.8.13.NIV

THAT WAS WISDOM SPEAKING!

IT EVEN SAYS;

BY ME KINGS REIGN AND RULERS ISSUE DECREE THAT ARE JUST.
BY ME PRINCES GOVERN AND NOBLES, ALL WHO RULE ON EARTH

That was not the Word (Jesus) speaking. It was wisdom speaking. Nothing concerns Jesus with all who rule on earth. Every Ruler needs WISDOM to rule wisely and justly.

I am a Poet myself.
Poems are not new to me.

What would you say about the pulpit commentary from bible hub as shown in the screenshot below?

Kingsempires:
Ok is just that in every agrument we learn something from it

That is true.....but two people cannot be correct in contradiction.

StillDtruth:
No! But you insalt yourself by your continous running into a brick wall non stop. That is what mad people do and ufortunately except for Aemmyjah who tries to stay away from the land of madness all other jws here have this played one type of madness or another like you have done and now will do!

Why is it always about the JWs?
Why not stick to neutral bible discussions. Must you attack a particular christian denomination? If you believe you have the truth personally, why not prove it in discussions like these?

PulsingPurple:
And the same Biblical standard doesn't discourage you from praying in tongues to your God.
(People have claimed to see and speak in tongues sha, whether they lied or not).

So in essence, you're repeating what I said and emphasizing on one half that favours your mindset.

Personally I don't speak in tongues to people or go around creating unnecessary attention towards the habit, I just came here to remind everyone that gibberish tongues exist in the Bible and it's not a crime to pray with it.

You're here saying the same thing but emphasizing that people shouldn't 'speak' it aloud around others, except there's an interpreter. TRUE.
But then also proceeding to say no one can be trusted either as a speaker or an interpreter. Hence, no one should speak in tongues at all in public.

That's where you establish yourself as someone who's not open-minded, and that's where people lose the essence of debates.

The concept of debates is not to feed you teachings, but just asking you to hear the person out and reason like him/her for a moment, that's open-mindedness.
Concluding things is a sign of close-mindedness (if the word exists), and here, you're concluding that no one can be trusted...

Oga it's not about being closed minded. It's about being cautious biblically.

If there are people or churches genuinely speaking In tongues today, don't you think we should be able to identify and mention them?

Don't you think that their standard of speaking in tongues would be based on the bibles principles of speaking in tongues?

Show me where people spoke unknown tongues in the bible without an interpreter like the ones we see today?

Do those who claim to speak in unknown tongues today have the ability to speak and evangelise in the native tongues of people that they've never learnt just as in Acts 2:4, 11?

Without all those questions answered above, I cannot trust anyone or church who claims to have the gift of speaking In tongues. It's not my fault. It's the bibles way of protecting me from being deceived.

My whatsapp number is in my signature if you want us to discuss more.

Kingsempires:
yes i agree is the bible we will use to know.so my question is there any christian denomination that you will tell that there are not doing biblical things and they well not use a part of the scripture to defend themselves?

No there is no church that will not use part of the Bible to defend themselves. But what about areas of the bible where there are contradictions between two churches, can the two church be correct in contradictions?

PulsingPurple:
Okay, yes agreed with all these on the surface.
I never intended to disagree much if that's what you thought I was doing.

My only point which was valid enough to require opposition is the fact that there's 'Tongues of Angels' and it is not understandable, and that some people might possess the original stuff, and can use it to pray to God if it suits them.
And that line of thought agrees with scriptures so far.

I'm not sure why you singled me out for the brief interrogation and insight.



Back to this, hoping there was no other reason for mentioning me?

Well concerning your bolded, no one today have claimed to see any who speaks in the tongues of Angels. Even if someone claims he does speaks in the tongues of Angels or has seen someone who does so, there is no way that we can be sure that it is actually genuine. He might as well be lying. That is why it is good to stick with the biblical standard of speaking in Tongues.

PulsingPurple:
Okay at least, hoping you've understood the other things I wrote.

Let me ask, is this the scripture that you intend to use to silence the act of speaking in tongues in public?

I intentionally didn't quote it, but read it, understood it and confirmed that my thoughts align with it.
Then I proceeded to use it to support a statement for you.

Let me quote it before you crucify me.
Using a version called EASY which isn't accurate but helps explain concepts.

1 Corinthians 14:27-28
[27] If some people speak in special languages, it should only be two or three people. They should speak one person at a time. Then someone must explain what each person said.
[28] But perhaps there is nobody among you who can explain like that. Then, anyone who wanted to speak in a special language must be quiet in your meeting. When they are on their own, they should speak to God.

How have I in anyway countered these scriptures with my opinions?


If you start from around verse 13 to read, you'd see that the people that Paul talked about who spoke in not-understandable tongues in the congregation of brethren were referred to as 'prophets', in the sense that they received and relayed information from God/Angels. It's not really a common practice anymore among brethren today.

Oga I never said Paul said no one should speak in tongue In public.
1)Anyone who speaks in an unknown tongue in the church must be accompanied by an interpreter according to Paul. Not everyone is allowed to speak in tongues simultaneously. It must be done turn by turn.

2)If there are no interpreter, a person who claims to have the gift of speaking in tongues must be silent. He does not have to convince others that he is capable of speaking In tongues or Explain that his tongues are true or false without an interpreter to confirm. He should talk between himself and God. No one is Obligated to believe that his unknown tongues are actually genuine or from the angels.

3) A person who has the gift of tongues must be capable of preaching to non-believers in their native tongues even though he has never learnt such tongues before according to Acts 2:4, 11.

Those three points above are hardly observed by people or churches who claim to speak in tongues.

PulsingPurple:
I don't know the direction we're heading, but it certainly doesn't call for unnecessary side questions when you can make the point outright.

If a person is praying and you happen to hear them audibly, that's their decision, not mine to answer, and like the 1 Corinthians 14:28 advices, the person is talking to God, not the congregation.

I was thinking you'd address a matter like a pastor praying for his congregation on stage and praying in 'tongues', cos apart from that, I've never seen a pastor speak to his congregation in 'tongues'.

Oga you refused to say that in 1 Corinthians 14:28, a person who claims to have special gift of tongues should keep 'silent' without an interpreter. Why did you jump that part?

PulsingPurple:
I had already given some thoughts



Now to answer your question, if someone is speaking in tongues of men while preaching and it's a strange tongue to his congregation, he should have an interpreter of course.

But if it's tongues of Angels by any means, it shouldn't be used to preach in the first place.

Praying is between the person and his God, surely no interpreter will be needed.

So if no interpreter is needed.....do we have to hear the person pray or speak audibly? What did Paul say the person should do in 1 Corinthians 14:28?

Kingsempires:
Because the bible did'nt mention`representative'it said `i will'

Oga 'I will' is not the bone of contention....who is the identity of the firstborn in that verse. Bible hub commentary says it is the only begotten from the Father. So who is that person? Jesus or David?

PulsingPurple:
Yhh I understand that side.

But for your last sentence, you should note that Paul acknowledges the existence of 'Tongues of Angels'.

1 Corinthians 13:1
“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.”

Whatever is classified as 'Tongues of Angels', I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it'll sound like gibberish, or at least, not-understandable to any human tribe.

Should one pray or speak audibly in the church with the tongue of an angel without an interpreter?

Na wa

Kingsempires:
That is a contradicting commentary

How....explain

Kingsempires:
i know where you are going that is why i said no there are not biblical.so which christian denomination do you think that is the true religion of God?if you said that there are fake denomination.

Even if I mention you won't agree.....how do we know if a church is fake or good? Do you agree that it is the bible that we would use to know?

Kingsempires:
So where is this pulpit commentary from

Bible hub sir....check it out.

Kingsempires:
So is Jesus created by God or his is God.psa89;26-27 did'nt mention representative it said that he will make him his first-born so God was saying this direct to david.

Lol....so the pulpit commentary is wrong?

Kingsempires:
Let me write down this thing here again,because i no that the JWs on this thread will igonre my question;you people said Jesus was created because the bible called his first-born son of God.so my question is why did God promise david in psa89:26-27 that he would make him his first-born son so God now have first-born sons or Jesus and david are now twin or the bible is contradicting itself?any answer

The screenshot below is a pulpit explanation from bible-hub which explains Psalms 89:27. It says that the first-born mentioned in Psalms 89:27 is actually referring to the 'only begotten of the father'. It says that king David along with all other so-called firstborns are a representative of the Only true "FIRSTBORN"......Do you know the name of the True FIRSTBORN or the Only begotten from the Father?

Kingsempires:
You want me to prove that catholic is bibical.i know where you are going,so let me say no.so is it now jws that is bilbical they said Jesus dead on a pole with no christian support that,they also say the holy trinity was invented that it is satanic with most christian believe in the holy trinity,they don't see Jesus as God but christian sees Jesus as God.so let me say jws are the true religion and others are false.i guest you like this answer

You've not still proved that the Catholics are the true Christians. Why are you taking me back to the JWs?

Kingsempires:
This is not the answer to my question i ask is Jesus first creation of God or he is the same as God

I don't know sir....you know more than me.....please explain Ephesians 1:15 as shown in the screenshots....

StillDtruth:
Nothing more than the the thread shows what i said and all that transpired, so you can knock yourself to death after all you jws love being mad!

Lol....has it gotten to insults and aggression?