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Emusan:
But you see where Jesus was called THE BEGINNING which the Father also called Himself. So can there be TWO BEGINNINGS? You already gave your answer as NO!

We can't apply it because the Father never became part of CREATION to redeem human.

and part those verses were talking about the redemption works of the Son.



They are never the same, reason why I do say you people don't understand what you're arguing against.

So who is the father, and who is the son?

Emusan:
Yes! But not in their entirety.

The Father is called "The Beginning" which verse 18 also called Jesus Christ.

Besides, verse 17 already proved you wrong that Jesus was actually BEFORE CREATION

"The Son was there before anything was made. And all things continue because of him." ERV

"He existed before anything else, and he holds all creation together." NLT

For us not to imply those verses to the Father in its entirety means that your logic is flawed.
So why can't we apply those verses in its entirety to the Father? Is the Father and Son no longer the same?

Emusan:
Don't fall for that Prov 8:22

Firstly, watchtower has claimed that verse is personification of WISDOM and not actually Christ.

Secondly, go further in that Prov 8 and see where the speaker speaks about God Himself was carrying out the act of creation by Himself without anybody doing. So, if the claim, God used Christ to create OTHER (the word never found in any Greek manuscript) things. Then why is Prov 8 describing God as the very one carrying out the works? You'll see how their mouth will change.

Lastly, Prov 8:15 says "By my power kings govern, and rulers make laws that are fair." do you agree with this? You'll see them blabbing because God says elsewhere in the scriptures these are the things do by Him.

Cam we apply col 1:15 and Col 1:18 to the Father?

Westerhoffe:
“The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.”
— Proverbs 8:22 (KJV)

This didn't say, "The LORD created me…" this is why we'll always never agree.

Below is the meaning of "possess"

possess
uk /pəˈzes/ us /pəˈzes/

Verb
possess (third-person singular simple present possesses, present participle possessing, simple past and past participle possessed)

(transitive)
To have (something) as, or as if as, an owner; to have, to own.
Synonym: inhold

Of an idea, thought, etc.: to dominate (someone's mind); to strongly influence.
Of a supernatural entity, especially one regarded as evil: to take control of (an animal or person's body or mind).

(also reflexive, chiefly literary and poetic) Of a person: to control or dominate (oneself or someone, or one's own or someone's heart, mind, etc.).
To dominate (a person)
(archaic)

To cause an idea, thought, etc., to strongly affect or influence (someone); to inspire, to preoccupy.

To occupy the attention or time of (someone).
(also literary) To obtain or seize (something); to gain, to win.
(also reflexive) Chiefly followed by of or with: to vest ownership of something in (oneself or someone); to bestow upon, to endow.

Synonym: seise

Antonyms: dispossess, unpossess
(law) To have control or possession of, but not to own (a chattel or an interest in land).
(obsolete)
To give (someone) information or knowledge; to acquaint, to inform.
To have the ability to use, or knowledge of (a language, a skill, etc.)
To inhabit or occupy (a place).
Chiefly followed by that: to convince or persuade (someone).
(intransitive)
To inhabit or occupy a place.
Conjugation

How does this rhyme with your explanation of JESUS CHRIST being created?

And the above does not relate to being "produced".

Can we apply those verses to the father also?

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