₦airaland Forum

prinzfavian:
Your point is exactly what I don't understand?
Are you saying, d disfellowshipping and hence shunning of rebellious witnesses arrangement is not scriptural or what?
And concerning the awake you cited up there, if you had sincerely and patiently gone through it you would have noticed that, it was refferring to a religiously divided home where the child found the truth but the parents are against it.... And not when a former member has been disfellowshipped between families.... Even Jesus said we must love him more than father and mother - Mathew 10:37... So what are you saying exactly... I'll love to understand please...

When people make a decision to leave, they should not be punished for it. It's a cult behavior to punish those who disagree.
Geoffrey Jackson agreed with that at the commission. Whatch his testimony if you are allowed to.

Does one who doesn't agree with the governing body teaching need to disassociate, No, just walk away. If you disassociate by writing a letter, you will be disfellowshiped.
Geoffrey Jackson of the jw GB agreed with this fact during his testimonies at the Australian Royal Commission.


Terrence O'Brien said at the Australian Royal Commission - "I think Mr Jackson, in his testimony, made the same point as I did in my testimony, that we don't believe it's an impossible choice. A person can stop associating with Jehovah's Witnesses, have nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses, without taking the step of disassociation. We've tried to make that very clear." (Day 259 transcript page 26536)





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erWV8YnTFto

The book, "Life how did it get here, by evolution or creation" published by Jehovah's witnesses has the most misquotes of all books.

https://corior..co.uk/2006/02/misquotations-in-creation-book.html

This is the most ridiculous and dishonesty made by an organization a religion that claim to represent god on earth. How could anyone who can read believe anything this jw writers ever write or say.
Put aside your beliefs for a moment- weather you believe Evolution or not is never the issue here, the issue is that many writers quoted by watchtowers publications have written the jw to not use their quotes because in many cases, the watchtower and awake magazines have impugned the opposite of what the quoted author intended.
It's no wonder that the "evolution" book as jw refer to it, has been removed from their favorite books. They don't refer to it any longer and it will soon become one of their load of craps.
Shameful

See 1 example of dishonest misquote below and judge for yourself.


The Quote Life -- How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation? (1985), p. 143:
Zoologist Richard Lewontin said that organisms "appear to have been carefully and artfully designed." He views them as "the chief evidence of a Supreme Designer." It will be useful to consider some of this evidence.



The Source Richard C. Lewontin, "Adaptation", Scientific American, vol. 239, September 1978, p. 213:
"The manifest fit between organisms and their environment is a major outcome of evolution.... Life forms are more than simply multiple and diverse, however. Organisms fit remarkably well into the external world in which they live. They have morphologies, physiologies and behaviors that appear to have been carefully and artfully designed to enable each organism to appropriate the world around it for its own life. It was the marvelous fit of organisms to the environment, much more than the great diversity of forms, that was the chief evidence of a Supreme Designer. Darwin realized that if a naturalistic theory of evolution was to be successful, it would have to explain the apparent perfection of organisms and not simply their variation."

Why are people who disagree disfellowshipped and shunned by friends and families if the Awake said this:

Another CO just woke up and left. (Contd)
Circuit Overseer Experience
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/6vo0jp/some_additional_comments_regarding_circuit_work/

CO:
OK so back to the circuit work. I think some in here are picturing a Circuit Overseer driving up in his Buick in his suit, a mature, experienced man who commands respect, his wife at his side, speaking in serious tones as he greets the elders then the rest of the congregation. I know not all are like that but you get the idea.
That wasn't me. In my assignment the new CO's were and are young, strong elders under 30 who are assigned to rural areas and can walk for miles in the heat and sleep on a cot. I rode the bus to my assignments my first two years in the circuit. Once I actually rode on the OUTSIDE of a bus, hanging on as I got covered in dust. I slept on a hard cot in the same room as the hosts with a curtain dividing us. I used outhouses and took bucket showers, no hot water in those areas. I walked all day on dusty roads and then gave talks on someone's back porch that doubled as a Kingdom Hall with a yeartext tacked onto the wall and their boom box for the songs. No microphone. Eventually I got the bigger circuits in the city and I got a car which I actually brought from the States, a salvage vehicle. Ask some of the posters on here who have served in those countries. They no doubt have crazy stories also.
Even worse was my life experience. I had hardly any. Raised a JW, not married, working part time. I was arrogant and ignorant, the worst combination for a human being and even worse for a Circuit Overseer. I had my 600 pages of notes from MTS and my binder of letters from the Society to all Circuit Overseers. I was a true believer, clueless to the real world, clueless to real moral values and ethics. I was good at spouting Witness doctrine and I acted humble, inside I thought I was the coolest dude around. A missionary CO, what could be better than that?
So some of my answers reflect more my experiences as a missionary rather than a CO. I certainly tried to act like one, in fact I would meet with the CO when I was on vacation back home. I would literally hunt him down in whatever Hall he was at and ask him tons of questions on policy and procedure. All CO's are required to have several "service talks" on hand to use and adapt to local needs. I didn't have any when I started. I just copied talks I heard from CO's here in the States and passed them off as mine.
When I came back here to the States and re-entered the work force I was a joke. I missed a lot of work on purpose to prove how "spiritual" I still was. I talked like an elder to my co-workers. I had instant problems getting along with others and respecting boundaries. During work meetings I would agree with whatever the boss said, and raise my hand to support whatever he was saying and wondered why everyone laughed and called me a brown-noser. So much for my CO experience. At least now I have woken up. I am so thankful for all of you for helping me over the years.
So anyway, my experience as a CO was in a foreign country, although I did have a lot of interaction with CO's here and I did serve in Bethel here.
I definitely have some issues to work out, but thanks to all of you I feel I am headed in the right direction.

Don't Give Up in Doing What Is Fine! 2018 Circuit Assembly Talk Outlines 8...

Don't Give Up in Doing What Is Fine! 2018 Circuit Assembly Talk Outlines 4...

Don't Give Up in Doing What Is Fine! 2018 Circuit Assembly Talk Outlines 1-4

The 2018 Circuit Assembly Talk Outlines are available here in English. Contd Talks 7...

The 2018 Circuit Assembly Talk Outlines are available here in English. Contd Talks 5-6

Talk Outlines of 2018 Circuit Assembles.
The 2018 Circuit Assembly Talk Outlines are available here in English. There are two ONE-DAY circuit assemblies. The theme of one is “Don’t Give Up in Fulfilling the Law of Christ!” and is hosted by a Branch Representative. The theme of the other is “Don’t Give Up in Doing What Is Fine!” and is hosted by the Circuit Overseer.

JW Family loses a civil case against a PA Hospital where the mother died after bleeding following child birth.

http://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/superior-court/2017/1838-eda-2015.html

CANADA STARTS FIGHT-BACK AGAINST BLOODLESS SURGERY

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/the-fight-for-robots-in-canadas-operatingrooms/article35897282/

Globe and Mail, Tuesday 8 August 2017.
The patient, a 70-year-old man with high-risk prostate cancer, was a Jehovah’s Witness.
His religion was one of the reasons he decided to undergo surgery at St. Joseph’s Healthcare in Hamilton, home to a robot named da Vinci whose steady metal hands can remove a prostate with scant risk of the blood transfusions forbidden by the man’s faith.
On a recent afternoon, the patient laid unconscious on an operating table as surgeon Bobby Shayegan and his team plunged a camera and three robotically controlled surgical instruments through small incisions in his abdomen.
Dr. Shayegan settled himself in front of a three-dimensional screen, clasped the two joysticks that controlled the tools inside his patient’s pelvis and proceeded to cut, cauterize and stitch until he freed the man’s prostate, pulling it out through one of the original incisions.
There was next to no blood.
“That was routine,” Dr. Shayegan said afterward, holding the plum-sized gland that he and the robot had removed together. “Very routine.”
...
In its first real ruling on a robotic surgery, the expert committee that advises Ontario on which new health technologies to pay for said there was no good evidence that robot-assisted radical prostatectomy is any better than conventional open surgery when it comes to controlling cancer or preserving urinary and sexual function.
The panel said the robot’s other benefits – patients have smaller incisions, lose less blood, suffer less pain and leave the hospital sooner – were not significant enough to justify spending, on average, an extra $3,224 a case, a figure that does not include the millions that wealthy benefactors have spent buying the machines for Canadian hospitals.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/the-fight-for-robots-in-canadas-operatingrooms/article35897282/

Re: 2017 Annual Meeting and Warwick/Wallkill Dedication Program

Another CO just woke up and left.
See his story here : https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/6tzv26/hi_im_a_new_member_and_longtime_lurker/

Ill copy and paste some his words in Q&A here:

CO: It is so strange to actually be writing on this forum after reading it for so long. Thank you for all the welcomes! To answer some of your questions, I am in the US. I am a graduate of the Ministerial Training School back when the school was new and they sent some graduates out as missionaries. I was assigned to Central America. I was a field missionary (140 hours per month) for three years then I was sent into the circuit work. This was during the years 1990-2001. I can't name the country for now, too many think I am still in and I am trying to help them. Tons of people on social media still think I am a JW, although some have I friended me due to questions and comments I make. I began really waking up in 2013, My wife woke up all the way in 2015. I actually quoted word for word someone's post on here and it worked with her!
Who in my family woke up first? My brother was disfellowshipped many years ago and he began to open his eyes then. I always had questions but I thought I had the answers. I remember distinctly being in the missionary home and studying the 1995 WT as a "family" with the generation change. It bothered us in the sense that we tried to make sense of it, I felt uncomfortable but of course we had to go back out in the field service so I just sort of pushed it to the back of my mind. There were so many little things that didn't make sense or weren't fair that added up, I will devote an entire post to that. It's a long story.
Green handshakes? In my circuit work in that country the congregations were poor but very generous. They would rarely give you money directly, it would always be given to the then PO then on Sunday I would be given an envelope, almost always it was around $50, it covered my gas and a little extra. Down there we didn't follow the expense report thing, they just gave whatever they could. I feel so bad now that I took their money. Back here in the US while I would be on vacation, my family paid for my plane ticket, I would give talks and slide presentations. Yes, the green handshakes and the long line to say hi to me. I was lonely in my assignment and I loved the validation and attention I received in giving those talks. For each slide presentation and talk people would give me a handshake with $20 or they would hug me and put it in my pocket. I usually received a total of around $400. I would cry each time and thank everyone individually. It really helped me in my assignment. I mailed thank-you cards when I could. Once in my old home congregation I received $800. So I would give five or six talks each time I was on vacation and take the money back to my assignment. It would last me a year. I would also work secularly while on vacation, which the Society allowed. Hope I answered some questions!


Q: What was your experience of Jaracz different from those of former Bethelites who interacted with him at HQ?

CO: Unfortunately I had faith that Jaracz was a good person. He personally told me about the Ministerial Training School when I met him in 1987, after talking with me for a few minutes. I met him again while attending the course, he even gave us a private discourse during the class and he was at my graduation. He then came down on a zone visit in 1995 or thereabouts to the country I was serving in. He was very stern, confident, and as I thought, a spiritual giant. I tried to be as good a missionary and CO as I could. I wanted him, as Gods representative, to approve of me. I was young, single, raised as a Witness. It never occurred to me to criticize him. Of course when he left we all talked about how scary he was, but it was always within the context of him being Gods representative. When I saw him later when I was at Brooklyn Bethel temporarily, he recognized me and called me by my full name. I saw him on the bridge between 25 and 30 Columbia Heights. After that I used to tell the story of how he knew my name even though I served thousands of miles away. I was always trying to impress in the Witness humble way of course! Anyway, I was raised to only think of the good side of elders, CO's and Bethelites. I was in a state of shock I first read when someone online criticized Jaracz. I was even offended that they said Jaracz instead of Brother Jaracz. Crazy, I know.


Q: As a CO did you encountered a lot of apostates or helped elders dealing with apostates. What did you do when you heard their questions? Was everything just dismissed in your mind as the questions not being valid because they are "apostate" questions? Was any research ever done into the questions?

CO: I very rarely talked to apostates, I don't think there were really any in the area I served. In those developing countries information is hard to come by, at least it was. Books are few and far between. Most Witnesees only had Witness books and no other books or magazines. People would obtain the Awake and ignore the Witness stuff just to read the other articles. I used to visit the "weak" and "inactive" every week per the elders list of who to visit. RRely if ever were doctrinal issues brought up. Usually it was girls who married non-witnesses, parents whose children were going to University, a few in my circuit would become completely "inactive" but wouldn't really leave a reason behind. I am trying to remember if I talked to undercover apostates and I just don't think there were that many in my area I was serving, there was such a lack of other information that all Witnesses accepted what the Watchtower said.
There were a couple of situations though. Here is one:
There was a couple in my circuit that was "studying" I remember. During the week of my visit I accompanied the elder on this study. They brought up vaccinations. I had no idea that Witnesses once banned vaccinations. I remember explaining about increasing light. Then the husband asked, "But what about those that died as a result, some were no doubt children. What about them?" That question hit me hard. I was so angry! AT THEM FOR BRINGING THIS UP! I became defensive and after the study I told the elder they didn't have a good attitude, otherwise why did they bring that up? What a horrible person I was.


Again, see his story here : https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/6tzv26/hi_im_a_new_member_and_longtime_lurker/

Hairyrapunzel:
Like your watchtower/jw.org doesn't want to loose its daily bread too. Jw.org will always tell you how to donate money to watchtower organization so who is fooling who?

New Letter on 2017 Annual Meeting Program.
This is for the US Branch

Hairyrapunzel:
I am free to think what I like to think. You on the other hand cannot think that the gb does not have any scriptural backing for all their beliefs.

You nail the problem/issue.
Jehovah's Witnesses are now not allowed to think for themselves.
Every cult have done same thing; they wield the power of life and death.
For example, most jw do not agree with the blood teaching, but with disfellowshipping and shunning brandished, many have no choice but to carry the "no blood" card.

achorladey:
Did you read the last two sentence of my previous post.
Someone raised questions concerning this your latest post have you giving the individual answers. Oh I forgot (I'll better have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question) you care less whether answers can be found. But you forgot the world is what it is because people continue to seek answers to questions raised.

Witnesses used to be very proud to answer questions whenever in the field service.
These days, you will have to show householders video of Dave Splane explaining the overlapping generation.
I was with a brother on a study. The student asked question about "the generation" teaching and the fellow i was with simply confessed that he does not understand it either.
The truth is that, even Dave Splane is a victim of this organization, the org he has spent his life following and now leading. An organization which has made the gb become absolute laughing stock. Its like being on the back of a ferocious beast; there is no good options.
People now refer to "the generation" teaching as "Overlapping Gen"

Where are the millions that "will not die". It's already 2017.
Ask the elders or write the gb to ask what happened to this bible interpretation..
It was a tactic to recruit. It's still the tactic used today by Jehovah's Witness GB.

achorladey:
The signs of the times!!!! To whom it may concern take heed.

The sign of the time/
Proves gods rule has begun/...in 1914 according to jw.
"Millions now living will never die" according to Jehovah's witnesses in 1925.
No jw rank and file should ask where those "millions" are without being shunned or disfellowshipped.

Nigeriadondie:
So u mean u re an elder and wish to leave the organization? How long have u been baptized?
Are ur parents JW? How long have u been an elder?

Read my other posts and try figure out how long I've been around.
Yes my parents were in the org when I was born. So like many witnesses, I got baptized as a teenager.

joyandfaith:
Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Feel That They Are the Only People Who Will Be Saved?
1.
No. Many millions who lived in centuries past and who weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation. The Bible explains that in God’s promised new world, “there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” ( Acts 24:15 ) Additionally, many now living may yet begin to serve God, and they too will gain salvation. In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.— John 5:22, 27.
2.Why Have Jehovah’s Witnesses Changed Some of Their Beliefs?
We have always used the Bible as the sole authority for our beliefs, so we have adjusted our beliefs as our understanding of the Scriptures has been clarified.
Such changes are in harmony with the Bible principle stated at Proverbs 4:18 : “The path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.” Just as the rising sun reveals details of a landscape gradually, God grants an understanding of divine truth progressively, in his due time. (1 Peter 1:10-12 ) As the Bible foretold, he has accelerated this process during “the time of the end.”— Daniel 12:4 .
These adjustments in our understanding should neither surprise nor disturb us. Ancient worshippers of God also had mistaken ideas and expectations and needed to adjust their viewpoint.
Moses offered himself as a deliverer for the nation of Israel 40 years ahead of God’s timetable.— Acts 7:23-25, 30, 35.
The apostles failed to understand the prophecy that foretold the Messiah’s death and resurrection.— Isaiah 53:8-12; Matthew 16:21-
23.
Some early Christians had wrong ideas about the timing of “the day of Jehovah.”— 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2 .
God later corrected their misunderstandings, and we pray that he will continue doing the same for us.— James 1:5 .
3.

Have you ever seen the governing body (GB) quote Det 18: 22?
You read what it says and ask yourself why the watchtower don't use that scripture

Det 18:22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’

Every Jehovah's Witness should read the watchtower article below before attending the 2017 regional convention.
One of the videos at the convention will have you believe that this article wasn't written at all. The rank and file are to blame for the 1975 palaver. They have removed all these old watchtowers from online so the young ones willl not know about them or ask questions.
That's the deceit in jw land.

achorladey:
A society should never become like a pond with stagnant water, without movement. The JWs is an organisation that keeps moving. New interpretation or new interpretation changing to new light it all points to an organisation that will not remain stagnant. Question or no question, answer or no answer.

Have you ever seen the governing body (GB) quote Det 18: 22?
You read what it says and ask yourself why the watchtower don't use that scripture

Det 18:22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’

achorladey:
A society should never become like a pond with stagnant water, without movement. The JWs is an organisation that keeps moving. New interpretation or new interpretation changing to new light it all points to an organisation that will not remain stagnant. Question or no question, answer or no answer.

In my one lifetime the interpretation of Matthew 24:34 “Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” has been changed 6 times. Every new gb has its own new interpretation.

David Splane explanation of this scripture was by means of a chart to indicate an overlapping generatiois explanation of this scripture.
In Jehovah's witnesses land, that's called "present truth"

This book is a must read. It succinctly explained issues of mental illness among rank and file of jw.

https://www.amazon.com/Jehovahs-Witnesses-Problem-Mental-Illness/dp/9993195286/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467897871&sr=8-1&keywords=Jehovah%27s+Witnesses+mental+illness

Hairyrapunzel:
There is no difference my dear.

The last 2 regional conventions have shown how desperate the gb has become. Last year, it was about Loyalty, and this year, it's Don't give up.
The truth is, many have already given up, but they can't go anywhere.
Many are PIMO; physically in, mentally out.

achorladey:
mikeolu1, you see yourself? These are your subjects show them the way.

I'll better have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.
If the gb don't have an answer to a bible question or prophecy, it's better they come out and say that. People will respect them a lot more than changing their interpretations sometimes several times and calling the new interpretation "new light".
That's crappie

So this people asking questions are better than many jw who think they know and then have what they claimed to know changed in few years.

achorladey:
Na mikeolu1 need this post pass. To him every suicide equates to an ex-Jw.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses in scholarly perspective:
What's new in the scientific study of Jehovean movement?
This is from the university of Oslo. You can find the abstract of this academic research here
https://philbarbey.jimdo.com/jws-rolf-furuli/

loyalty—part of the new personality (s-341a-18-e 5/17).

Note to the circuit overseer:.
use this outline for the tuesday service talk from september 2017 through february 2018. you will need to prepare your own 30-minute service talk for use after the watchtower study.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fYNzAbUpqFbUdGMmdIVnEzVXM/view?usp=sharing