₦airaland Forum

trillville:
you are making sense on the aspect of injustice. on the aspect of unity, the rich are united on plundering nigeria. they only divide with issues such as true federalism to confuse while they continue their looting spree.

if your thread was on improving the living conditions and welbeing of Niger deltans, i would have been your loudest supporter. but your thread seems to be about dividing the country i love so much, and i am tired of all this divisive arguments that lead to no good for any of us.

back to the issue of developing the niger delta, are there other ways of developing the niger delta apart from true federalism. would fighting corruption help. would direct intervention such as the building of more refineries and power plants aid in developing the region? would the enforcing all oil companies to move their head quarters to the niger delta aid in improving tax revenue to the states? i am sure there are other ways the ND can be improved on.

Nd govs and other looters should build refineries and plant Palm oil

trillville:
if the niger delta has all the oil wealth and the rest of the country is poor, the general population in the niger delta will still be poor. what creates wealth for the masses is business and what creates the need for business is having a market to sell goods to. why nigeria is a poor country is because our leaders are pennywise and pound foolish. they steal money to create businesses but have no one to use their services. if you've been to Abuja, you'll realise the large number of houses that are empty with no one living in them.


i give up.

if nd has all oil wealth the Rest of the country will get their share by supplying meat onions tomatoes TV cars builders engineers teachers cos they will just become lazy like Dubai and Saudi ppl

trillville:
is the oil properly been exploited by the ND? why don't we have refineries? must we sell crude oil? can't we sell petrol and diesel? is the answer every region going on its own or nigeria developing a plan to properly harness its resources? no nigerian is lazy by the way.

Nigerians very lazy, big difference between hard working(deliberate effort) and desperate (no choice)

trillville:
If this view you have just written down is the common view of every person in support of true federalism, then there is nothing wrong with this view. My issue is that the poorer States can not be simply left to fend for themselves at this stage while the ND consumes 100 percent of the oil revenue. I am in support of your view.

they wouldn't be 100% they would pay like 15% tax and poor states will tax their ppl and pay salaries to useless Civil servant r accordingly

trillville:
I am Nigerian and my region is the whole country. Do you know how oil got deposited in the Niger delta region? Do you know how oil is even created? What makes you claim that the crude oil solely belongs to Niger Deltans? Don't you think you are also a parasite just trying to rip where you did not sow after all you did absolutely nothing to put oil in the ground.

The problem dull people like you have is that you fail to understand what your own problem is. Your problem is the level of poverty in the Niger delta and Nigeria as a whole. The discussion on this thread is based on how do we solve that problem and not necessarily true federalism per se. I hope I have clarified things a bit for you.

should have asked him whose money (cocoa and groundnut Palm oil) was used to develop the oil fields) [b][/b]now wen food don done den remember federalism

trillville:
Mogidi, I do not want ur trouble this night. My apologies to the Igbos for my careless post.

What I would truly love for us to do is come up with suggestions to increase the general productivity of Nigeria. We would not be having any conversation on true federalism if there was no mass poverty in the land.
So how do we reduce the poverty in Nigeria. How do we move from primary industries to value added manufacturing?

Is it not a shame that after 40 years of oil exploration, we still have to give 40 percent of our revenue from crude oil with multinationals because we lack the technical know how. Nigerians are smart people. What is wrong with us?

Take cocoa for example, Europeans cannot live without chocolate. Can't we form a cartel with other cocoa producing countries and force companies that produce chocolate to open factories in our countries?

I see no strength in a divided Nigeria. We are blessed beyond our understanding but for the failure of our leaders.

When I hear talk of resource control and true federalism, all that comes to my mind is greedy Niger Deltans who ignorantly do not know what the true cause of their problems are.

Today, I have realised that fiscal federalism can be used to change our current system with a hope of increasing accountability of our leaders. This is a good reason. Will it work? No one knows.

lamenters like you should go into politics and change it from within (Robin Hood style) or, or gada 1 million ppl to contribute 1 1,10 10 ,100 100,1 1000 etc to plant plenty plenty Palm oyel, cocoa, rice, wheat sugar and then build industrial parks (with off grid turbines) to process all the above and more (building materials, electronic Assembly, heck even acquire ajaokuta and develop our steel industry) all the while providing jobs and replacing looters with your own politicians

trillville:
Kleek
Do Africans have cultural issues that prevent us from developing at the pace of other nations? Yes. Is this caused by lower IQs of Africans? I will have to see your research on this, and what objective methodology which takes cognizance of cultural differences was used in coming to your conclusions.

We are a tribal race, but the boundaries of tribal differences is being broken down on a daily basis. The level of inter-tribal marriage and people living in states inwhich they do not "originate" from is on the increase.

We Africans are laid back people, simple people. It doesn't take much to please us, just like the "red indians" were also simple people when unfortunately, the Europeans conquered their lands. Does this translate to the "red Indians" being of lower IQ than the Europeans?

The chinese were also a conquered people, first by the British and then by the Japanese. It is a historic fact that China was one of the developed countries in the past with innovations such as paper and fire works just to name a few, yet, they were conquered so easily.

This occurred because the Chinese are naturally culturally adverse towards war and do not believe in conquest of other people's lands. The chinese focused on trading with their foreign neighbours rather than on conquest. This lack of interest in conquest led to China having a weak military which then translated in their defeat by the British. Does this translate to the Chinese being of lower IQ than the Europeans?

In Africa, we had great kingdoms, we traded with the Europeans and were a prosperous people. We had great artworks that confounded the Europeans but because of our lack of interest in military conquest, we were easily defeated and our history was taken away from us.

Today both African and South American countries are planning on changing World trade organisation's laws that allow countries to provide subsidies to their agriculture and food processing industries. These laws when combined with the international financial system have prevented South American and African countries from producing simple things such as milk and chocolate and has further impoverished us. Implementing changes to these laws will take about 11 years if such an agreement is reached so we still have a long way to go.

Your discussion on eugenics is very silly and should never be considered. Even if we were naturally dumber people, we could create systems of government different from the traditional democracy that will prevent such dumber people from ever getting into positions of authority. Dumber people make for excellent cheap labor cos a dumb person is still smarter than artificial intelligent machines at carrying out human intelligence tasks which make up the basic activities at manufacturing plants.

Cheers. Have a good day.

how would we prevent dumb ppl from office.actually win will stop them

trillville:
Lawani, you are correct in saying Nigeria should not pay civil servants with oil money but should pay them with taxes. I don't believe any prosperous nation does this.

The issue with your post is your belief that oil revenues should be left solely for the Niger Delta. I think this is very greedy of you and greediness on the part of our leaders is what makes them stupidly corrupt.

Why not channel all oil into capital projects (infrastructure for power, water, transport, communication, health, education, housing, etc) rather than paying the civil servants or the Niger deltans. Think of the number of workers that would be employed to achieve all these projects.

But if government decides to right size the civil service, Nigerians would go on the streets protesting. The ex-president had the Steve oronsaye's report that would have dramatically reduced our recurrent expenditure but failed to implement it. The current president also has the report and is yet to implement it.


Nigeria as a country is very rich, but we have a culture of greediness that is keeping us back. I read the article in saharareporters on why fuel will remain scarce for much longer, and I became really sad at the degree of greed Nigerians display. We have the oil in Nigeria but we have to import fuel. Why?

In importing fuel:

We pay the foreign refineries money (creating employment for foreign workers) to refine the crude
We pay foreign banks interest for loaning money to our Nigerian banks
We pay our local banks interest for loaning money to our fuel importers
We pay our fuel importers money for transporting the fuel to Nigeria
We pay the fuel distributors money for transporting the fuel to the filling stations

All these just because some greedy people want to make an extra buck. How greedy and wicked can we be to our fellow countrymen?

as greedy as we the ignorant voters allow them to be. it is the nature of the beast

trillville:
Sorry for my error. My point on the oil resources is simple, no government should share any oil money. The federal, states, and local governments should pay their civil servants using tax generated from people and businesses just as other countries do. Oil revenue should be set aside solely for infrastructural development as this will develop Nigeria faster.

The issue with giving the Niger delta the oil resources and letting them manage it and share it with other Nigerians will never work in my opinion and would only lead to civil war. The sooner Nigerians move away from this idea, the better for us as a nation. It can be logically and morally argued that a greater share of the resources should be expended on the Niger delta, but outright ownership (even with the Niger deltans agreeing to share with the rest of the country) will certainly lead to war in the long run.

how pray tell.

trillville:
It seems there are two economies within nigeria, one for the rich and the other for poor.

the rich need the fg to devalue the naira to entice foreign investments into the country. this will make the naira stronger than it currently is in the black market, enabling the rich to purchase dollar denominated goods at cheaper prices.

the poor need the fg to maintain the current official value of the naira. any increase in the official rate would lead to increases in the price of fuel and electricity within nigeria, and in turn, increases in the cost of locally produced food, thereby making life harder for the poor.

the rich can afford to pay for increases in food cost, but the poor can not.

do we devalue or not?

survival of the fittest unfortunately bro

KingsWillRoyal:
people who sponsor the militants are far stupidly rich my friend

they cannot be richer than gwament.we will outlast them in a standoff.

world1:
Without implements.

how many hectares per day ploughing

trillville:
Lol
Have you ever heard of WTO? there is a limit to which the Nigerian government can implement protectionists policies.

we opt out of raw deal. e no kuma pay us

What makes you believe that the Chinese company that makes generator sets will set up a factory in Nigeria simply because we impose tariffs on imported sets? What if the company is Chinese government owned and its main purpose is to create jobs for Chinese people?

look for small private company

Even if the company were not government run and chooses to set up a factory here, the company will have to import almost all the parts it would need to assemble the sets, making the final price of the sets much higher than it is today. Although I am not am economist, I do know that a higher price leads to a decrease in the quantity demanded of a given good. So you are asking a Chinese company to set up shop here to make less profits than it is currently making.

imported parts and imported finished products. which will be cheaper plus very cheap labour here (tis all about job creation and tech transfer)

Nigeria has a great economic model, Capitalism. Capitalism has proven over the years to be the surest path to prosperity and sustenance of that prosperity. Nigeria is also a federal democratic state, which is also a good political model. What prevents Nigeria from super growth is simply lack of political will to do what must be done, reduce excessive waste in our system.

when we suffer enough we will arrange ourself

Most countries have no income from natural resources such as crude oil. These countries rely solely on taxes finance infrastructure that support industrialization such as power plants and roads. Nigeria collects taxes from its citizens and at the same time gets revenue from oil sales, yet we lack basic infrastructure like pipe borne water because over 80 percent of governments revenue is spent on paying salaries and allowances.

see above

The oil revenue is meant to benefit all Nigerians- alive, dead, yet to be born-, all Nigerians equally, and not a fraction called public and civil servants. This goal can only be achieved through mass infrastructure development. This is the fight, the youths must fight. This is the course you should be battling for.

I doubt we have suffered enough

Nigeria doesn't need any country's money or technical skills. The first power plant built in Nigeria was in the 1920's. The U.S. started mass development of power plants in the 20's. Today, we struggle to produce 4000 megawatts and America is moving head on into the digital age.

we never suffer reach

trillville:
You are absolutely right. Not all civil servants are bad and it would be disastrous for the government to fire people indiscriminately. Government needs to sort the wheat from the chaff. luckily, this can be achieved easier with technology in this present day than in the past.

You are also right that our society doesn't create incentives for job creation. I believe it still boils down to our reliance on oil money to pay salaries and also government being the highest employer of labour. This factors out merit and hard work as the main determinants of success at the work place since earnings are not based on productivity but on oil revenues.

Take electricity as an example.
Take the nigerian electrical engineer. In universities he/she is taught to innovate and solve problems related electricity, whereas polytechnic graduate is taught to maintain and manage already created technology.

How come western countries have electricity yet our graduates have continuously failed to find an innovative solution to our electricity problems.

Are all our electrical engineers half baked? You may say our educational system has become bad. What about older electrical engineers who were trained in the good old days. We also have nigerians currently trained abroad and yet no one can come up with alternatives to improve the plight of the masses.

Funny thing is, take a serious minded nigerian trained electrical engineer to the western world where efforts are compensated and watched the magic the nigerian will perform. Nigerian graduates are performing everywhere they go and are amazingly ingenious at how they go about their jobs.

Take the doctor that discovered the effects of concussions on athletes and the nigerian that designs cars for general motors. Today, a nigerian is the general manager of the toronto raptors, the only NBA team in canada.

Nigerians in general are the highest performing black people in the united States today, yet we can't get our country to work right. It's sad! Really sad!

cos we hate ourselves (tribalism patriotism self first)

chinchum:
Mass housing is not a bad idea, as long it comes with a fair mortgage facility. People can pay for houses for as long as 20 years. Many of the Okada riders learnt a trade, and are artisans who abandoned their trade for commercial bike operations, that is a symptom. The rootcause is not far fetched. Unemployment of graduates is not necessarily high because we have too many white collar workers, it is high because the basics that will spur creation of productive and creative jobs are missing. The unemployment rate is high, because few jobs are created compared to the teeming millions of youths that need employment. Nigeria has a median age of 18 or thereabout, meaning close to 100 million of Nigeria's 200 million are 18 years and below.

Not all civil servants are being paid for doing nothing, i think we must make fair assessment, some are actually overworked, nevertheless there can be gradual disengagement of those found to be surplus to requirement, and some parastatals or ministries can be commercialised, meaning they must make what they spend on wages and running cost.

move under utilised Civil servants to Agric ministry and give them tractor

trillville:
Enough of this storm talk. This post may be long, please bear with me.

I see this current crisis as a big opportunity for nigeria to right it wrongs and develop into a great nation.

All across Africa, countries have better electricity supply than nigeria. Why is this?

Nigeria has a huge income disparity between its rich and it's extremely poor. Why is this?

Nigeria is rich in multiple resources yet our people continue to suffer in abject poverty. Why is this?


People tend to say we have bad leaders or that our leaders are just too corrupt. I completely disagree with this notion.

Our leaders are a product of we the citizens. Does this mean all nigerian citizens lack leadership skills and corrupt? I think not.

What we are experiencing in nigeria are classical effects of the Dutch disease. We earn revenue from natural resources, hence our government doesn't collect suitable taxes. This makes people in the government act in their own self interest. This also prevents the general public from holding their leaders accountable for their actions. Hence the country losea it's ability to develop.

Seun posted a link to a financial times article about how Norway (I believe) escaped the trap of the Dutch disease.

How do we get out of this mess? Institute a policy whereby all oil revenues are used on infrastructural projects, savings and not on paying salaries of public and civil servants. This cannot be achieved in a few years. It would probably take over 10 years to achieve this.

What this government can do is replace civil servants with manual labourers. Rather than have people who do nothing, employ people to build mass housing units for the less privileged. This will spur employment for both skilled and unskilled labour.

It would be extremely morally wrong for today's government to ask nigerian citizens to pay any additional taxes to enable government to pay civil/public servants who do little or nothing to benefit the general public.

If government were to shift it'd focus to providing infrastructure be it electricity as opposed stomach infrastructure, nigerians may be more willing to pay taxes since they will be seeing the benefits government is providing. This will also make citizens hold government to its task of further providing infrastructure thereby creating a functioning system.

PS
I am a government worker and I travelled 4 hours to get to work this morning bring the first woring day this week. I got to work around 10:30 and still came before half the members of my office. How motivated do you think I am feeling right now. I have been writing this post on office time (using my private network though), yet i will demand to get paid and complain if payments are delayed through no fault of the government. I am indeed a nigerian civil servant.

who will Bell the cat?the I. the 6 million dollar question

trillville:
So because there's a storm, government shouldn't build a shelter but should fold it's arms and wait for the storm to get over?

I am pro-buhari and will always be anti-jonathan but this administration needs to make tough choices, some not politically palatable, that would lead to a more progressive country.

govt won't solve anything. it is the ppl that will solve their problem

trillville:
Oduastates
What solution have you proposed now. Agreed we have a fake economy, what should we do to correct it.
Currently, over 70 percent of expenditure is on recurrent expenses, mostly funded by oil revenues. Most of this expenditure is on payment of civil servants salaries.

How much impact do these civil servants have on the lives of ordinary nigerians?

Should the Nigerian masses pay taxes like other developed nations, to pay government workers' salaries?

Should the Federal government rationalise the civil service and then institute a tax regime? How will the labour congress accept such a policy?

Should the Federal government just sit and wait for oil prices to rise?

Why attack oni tomatoes? Don't we all deserve to have a better life?

enter farm and no you only deserve what you work for. oni tomatoes did not ''work '' (vote) for good leaders and so does not deserve anymore than she (tomato sellers usually women) gets (bad economy,poverty,misery) .so investment in farms and factory by private sector is a solution.

fortunately at least half of us are farmers so it won't be as bad. we will adjust since we are not fully socialist and only Civil servants depend on govt. and even them have shops or sell stuff so it will be rough but we will survive

why should he help his community
who him community epp?

world1:
Around N480k

with or without implements

KingsWillRoyal:
people who sponsor the militants are far stupidly rich my friend

we de watch

world1:
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how much for your walking tractor

Rad1cal:
Yes i prefer PDP simply because they don't play the pull everything down just to oppose every good policy. The subsidy issue is one of them. Hypocrisy is a disgusting disease.

If i may ask you. Are you an hypocrite concerning this subsidy removal wahala.

obj subsidy 300bn
gej subsidy 1trn(no 300% increase in population o)
not to talk of boko and his general dullness
me i supported his removal of subsidy in 2012(better once and for all than all this incremental suffering)
last last na thief dem still thief d subsidy
d mistake you pdp supporters make is you think we like apc
no
we just don't like pdp and choose to punish them so next time they will not eat with their ten hands.
next time they will remember the voters
same thing goes for apc if they pass their boundary we will vote for another party(never pdp)

Rad1cal:
Thank you for your sincerity. I have a car and i bought fuel AT N150 per litre and bought some for the generator. Though expensive and can manage, i won't condone the attempt by zombies to cloak their hypocrisy with meaningless rambles . Those people who bought cars am sure have other reasons than just going to work, so don't throw careless cynic comments to what makes them comfortable.

why will i lie,a car was bought for me
i fill tank twice a year(cos i didn't need it) even the one i bought na make e no spoil while sitting fallow
i'd rather buy a tractor and rent out to farmers or truck for transportation biz then when i''m comfortable i buy prper car not all dis nonesense manage mange we are doing in nigeria
people will by hand me down cars and be carrying shoulder up and start complaining when its time to pay insurance,service,re[pair etc.to buy motor easy,to maintain na where we seperate the pretenders from the contenders.

but seriously everyone will adjust except for civil servants with stagnant salary
see farmers and transporters are smiling to the bank
but the koko i want to ask you is,do you prefer pdp and if yes,why?

Chennai1:
Then what is a winning strategy? Let me speak to you 'humbly' - because I think we may be saying the same thing. One nauseating thing I've noticed with many people in Nigeria, is that every body knows how to criticize something, but only few offer good alternative. I tell you, there is no other feasible way for the NDELTANS voice to be heard except this way. If there is any please tell me. And dont come here to repeat to me this unworkable strategy of 'speak to your elected representatives and let them champion your cause'. Off course, you know that proposals is dead on arrival, because we don't have the critical mass in either chambers of the NA to make things work.

So I'm all ears to hear your workable strategy.

hit the governors commissioners senators reps assemblymen councillors chairmen party excos(10 per ward) and their wives(doubles your attack space) and their chudren(doubles again) parents and friends(more doubling)
nobody will tell them provide stomach and other infrastructure and empowerment.

that's for the militant

for you(non militant patriot),you need to go into politics(and change things directly if your mind still pure cos personally rice is not my problem(thank God) but i plan to share rice and amala,win election,thief moni(not eve steal),then share more amala(10%) then provide infra and superstructure(80%),i keep (10%) as my commission.hopefully it will force my rivals to also spend 90% of stolen money on voters) or form/join a (producing,producing i repeat producing not consumer or thrift)cooperative(agric or manufacturing)

world1:
You need around N450k per acre for total setup using mechanised procedures.

only land preparation or all the way to planting/harvest

Rad1cal:
Okay. Shey you don fill ya tank with fueh ? how much you buy am ?

i cannot afford(neither do i need one fortunately my work place is walking distance) a car so i do not deceive myself(if i need to be mobile i will buy okada).why buy wghat you cannot afford to maintain.i know many people who live behind their office(jamb) and yet all bought cars andd now all complaining about fuel(who send dem)trying to impress ppl with cars that have been discarded by whiteman and you are trying to compare your low productivity($2,600 per capita)self with highly productive oyinbo($50,000 per capita!!over 25 times more productive)

0rex:
Perhaps, we are almost all the same.

not really but majority carries the vote.
rice is not my problem(thank God) but i plan to share rice and amala,win election,thief moni(not eve steal),then share more amala(10%) then provide infra and superstructure(80%),i keep (10%) as my commission.hopefully it will force my rivals to also spend 90% of stolen money on voters

Rad1cal:
You will be shocked at the oncoming hurricane that will sweep this frauds out of power by every means possible.

same way i was shocked in 2015 against incumbent president with federal might at his disposal ba?
we de look.apc is just as corrupt as pdp o but not as greedy.you have to give (dividends of democracy) to get (votes)
pdp gave nothing and wanted everything
anyway vote anyhow you likee and i will do same and may29 2019 we will see who will ahve mouth to talk

tuk2ato:
So mamador and power oil aren't groundnut oil?

read the ingredients.that's why it's there

Rad1cal:
Zombie , get thee behind me you turd.

2019 we will find out