₦airaland Forum

kwangi: What movement are you talking about?
What coherence?
If atheism is not supposed to be a religion, then what coherence or incoherence are you going on about?

Are you saying that because atheism is not supposed to be a religion, it does not have to be coherent?

Secondly,the way a religion is spread is an issue since everything about the religion is supposed to be in line with it's beliefs, claims and what not!

In relation to the topic at hand: Christ and the apostles neither spread nor recommended that Christianity be spread by coercion. Christianity was not forced on negro slaves by their white masters

mazaje: Nigerians are overtly religious. . .

Stereotypical generalization but that's by the way.

Nigerians claim the people living in the west are godless yet the keep running to their lands. . .They claim the west is cursed because the people have legalized gay married, have relegated religion to the back ground are anti god etc, but they keep running to such lands. . .

I was listening to a girl narrate about her experience in india on saturday, she just came back from india for hip replacement surgery. . .She was talking about how some of the indian nurses put the images of their hindu gods their offices, she said she casted and binded all the spirits of the hindu gods with the blood of Jesus bla bla bla. . .I just laughed. . .If the blood of Jesus really worked she won't be in india in the first place, she would have done what the bible recommended for those that are sick. . .

Hindu doctors are healing Nigerians in very large numbers that the christian or muslims doctors living in Nigeria arent, yet we have the audacity to insult indian and call their gods lesser god when they are the ones saving our lives because we have failed ourselves and our own gods have failed to heal and protect us from treatable diseases. . .Nigerians are just crazy. . .

People in villages claim that those who live in big cities are spoilt yet they migrate to big cities. Economic reasons and religious reasons are two entirely different subjects. You have set up a false parallel.

To show you what I mean, I'll turn the question around on you. Why have you chosen to do business in religious Nigeria? why not move to an atheist country like Vietnam for instance? Everyday we hear you criticizing "religious Nigeria" yet you rush down here to do business and I'm sure if business favors you here, you'll comfortably tuck yourself in among the religious.

P/s: I hope you are seeing how irrational the argument is because economic reasons for traveling or not traveling is a different thing entirely from religious reasons for traveling. Comparing apples and oranges in like this in a desperate bid to manufacture a point is simply preposterous.

Logicboy03: Isnt this a form of hypocrisy?

Religious Nigerians here bash atheists and secularism but they would praise God and give testimonies when they get visas to secular countries where atheism is on the rise. You cant fly to london on holiday from Lagos during christmas or summer without a full plane of Nigerians.

Why dont religious Nigerians run to ultra-religious countries? If religion is good, why dont they go to very religious countries?

The average Nigerian does not speak Japanese/Chinese but you will see them in those countries. Why not go to Mexico or Cuba which are nearer and have an easier language to learn?



It seems to me that these religious people value material things they can get from these secular countries (eg better healthcare, strong currencies, higher salaries, better transport systems) yet their holy books tell them to be spiritual and to avoid being materialistic/vain.

Fact Check,

1. Nigeria is a secular country
2. The religious disposition of a person often has little to do with his/her travel plans.
3. Nigerians who travel for religious reasons tend to go to religious countries e.g. traveling Saudi Arabia for the Hajj
4. Nigerians who travel for economic reasons tend to travel to economically thriving countries e.g. traveling to England for jobs.
5. Religion and the economy are two separate subjects and are not necessarily linked.

Conclusion, You have made a fallacious argument by comparing false parallels.



#Say no to dishonest atheist propaganda

manmustwac: You are 100% right. I even think of that at times myself. Imagine thousands of Nigerians each week praying to get visa to go to atheist European countries. When they get there they go against God by overstaying after their visa has expired, do marriage of convenience so they can avoid going back to their very religious God fearing gountry & stay remain in their atheist country, they work here. Illegally, they thank God after getting their stay or british passport dubiously & frosbel anony & co get the bloody cheek to threaten us non believers with Hellfire while enjoying all the benefits of life in an atheist country

FACT-CHECK TIME.
1. Nigeria is a secular country

The Government of the Federation or of a State shall not adopt any religion as State Religion.

(Article 10 of the 1999 Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria)


2. Please name some of these atheist countries that Nigerians are allegedly flocking to. Mind you, an atheist state is different from a secular state.

#Know Your Facts, Reject Dishonest Atheist Propaganda.

Ok cool, so now we have three confirmed.

Let's make things a bit more definite.

Venue: Potter's Feild Park
Date: Saturday, August 24, 2013
Time: 1.00pm

Sounds good?

manmustwac: Guess you'll just have to postpone it for now till a later date and if that don't workout am afraid you may have to cancel

How does the weekend of 24/25th work for you? Please as much as possible, give a definite answer.

I'll ask everyone to do the same so that at least we know how many people are confirmed to attend

manmustwac: I wquldn't mind coming but i don't want to be the only one there

Yeah same here, I'm up for it but I'm concerned about the exact same thing

It appears no one is really interested for tomorrow. Guys, do we take a raincheck say sometime after the 20th or anyone else care to suggest a date. I'm still keen to meetup

Frank4YAHWEH: It is obvious that you side with the Pharisees in falsely accusing Yahshua of blasphemy, breaking the Sabbath and making himself out to be "God." These men were out to entrap Yahshua in his words! Why would you take the side of fools? Only a fool would take side with fools! I myself choose to side with what the righteous MAN Yahshua said who was inspired by his and our FATHER Yahweh. I certainly would never side with the unrighteous and foolish Pharisees whose only agenda was to entrap Yahshua in his words. Their agenda most certainly was not in understanding what Yahshua said! Yahshua never once proclaimed to anyone that he was "God." You absolutely will find no record in the so-called "New Testament" where Yahshua ever proclaimed to be "God." He said that he was the SON of Yahweh ["God"].

I think you are referring to someone else

Yes, you do! You just got through consulted the Moffatt translation to force your erroneous point!

Lolololol, I didn't even know there was such a thing as Moffatt until you brought it up in your translation jumping adventure. Now I quoted it back to you and it happened to debunk your claims, it has become "erroneous" abeg no no make me laugh.

No, that is not EXACTLY what it says. In fact, nowhere in ANY Scripture translation will you ever find it said "Yahshua IS Yahweh."

It says it right there in Hebrew 1:8-10 and you conceded it by accepting that it was speaking to the Son while referring to Him as Yahweh from Psalm 102:25

The first part is in reference to the SON, but where it says "You did found the earth at the beginning, Yahweh, and the heavens are the work of Your hands they will perish, but You remain.", this is in reference to to his and our FATHER Yahweh, since Scripture clearly teaches that FATHER Yahweh created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM."

My dear, both are in reference to the Son. The bible never says in Hebrews that now it is changing to the Father. That is your own invention. Hebrews makes it clear that it is referring to Christ as Yahweh. You can't deny that.

It seems you enjoy it when you make Scripture contradict itself! Yahshua clearly said that the FATHER was GREATER than he.

The bible says exactly what it says, it doesn't need special editing from you. The bible makes it clear in Philipians 2 that Christ being God in essence did not want to take advantage of His equality with God but humbled Himself to take the form of man. So when Christ says "the Father is greater than I", He is speaking the truth from a point of humility

Again you make Scripture contrdict itself! Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say or teach "God took the form of a man and was crucified for our sake bearing upon himself the rightful judgment of wrath that our sins deserve. In fact, it truthfully says that FATHER Yahweh SENT HIS SON into the world. FATHER Yahweh did not say that He sent Himself into the world! Again, it is obvious that you believe that it is possible for mere men to execute FATHER Yahweh by nailing Him to a pagan cross. Pure poppycock!

Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death--even death on a cross.
- Philipians 2:5-8

Logicboy03: By examining

a) the material things that cause/control it (i.e the brain)

Petito principii. You have assumed the initial point without justifying it. We have not yet ascertained whether the brain causes consciousness or consciousness causes the brain to function. You cannot merely assume a priori that the brain causes consciousness in order to prove that the brain causes consciousness. That is viciously circular

b) its effects (how conscious people behave)

Again, how do you tell by empirical observation that they are behaving consciously and not being unconsciously programmed? You have again assumed a priori that the actions of the people are an effect of a consciousness. This is very suspect especially since you can neither observe nor measure this consciousness which you claim is making them act.

Give up, Anony.....I am too smart for you.

I would have taken you seriously if you had actually exhibited some smartness. Unfortunately you haven't

Logicboy03: ===================================
The phrase "Uncle Tom" has also become an epithet for a person who is slavish and excessively subservient to perceived authority figures, particularly a black person who behaves in a subservient manner to white people; or any person perceived to be a participant in the oppression of their own group
=====================================

Good, now please show how self-professing Black Christians like Martin Luther King Jnr, Rosa Parks, Barack Obama, Frederic Douglass e.t.c. fit this description of yours

The rest of your post was worthless to the topic by the way

[quote author=*Kails*]wtf does their not accepting being treated as second class citizens have to do with
Christianity being fraudulent? I don't get it![/quote]But you have not shown that Christianity is fraudulent you have merely claimed it. Funny enough, slavers were not known to convert their slaves as many slaves were known to practice voodoo while in captivity, heck most slave owners didn't even let slaves into their church meetings. Some slave masters even resisted missionaries preaching to their slaves and severely punished slaves who would have secret prayer meetings because they felt that if their slaves were allowed to hold meetings, they would revolt.

I believe you are a rational person so please explain to me how people who believed that negroes had no souls now suddenly wanted to save them. Also explain to me how one can force Christianity on you and at the same time punish you if you showed an ability to read the bible. Think critically about what you are saying. There is little or no actual evidence suggesting that slaves were forced into christianity. Even the earliest freed slaves were inspired by the bible. Listen to the slave songs, they are filled with bible references. Consider these for instance:

Swing Low Sweet Chariot
Chorus:
Swing low, sweet chariot,
Comin' for to carry me home;
Swing low, sweet chariot,
Comin' for to carry me home.

I looked over Jordan,
And WHAT did I see,
Comin' for to carry me home,
A band of angels comin' after me,
Comin' for to carry me home.

Repeat chorus:

If you get there before I do,
Comin' for to carry me home,
Tell all my friends I'm comin' too,
Comin' for to carry me home.


Let My People Go
Go down Moses
Way down in egypt land
Tell all Pharaoes to
Let My People Go!

When Israel was in Egypt land...
Let My People Go!

Oppressed so hard they could not stand...
Let My People Go!

So the God seyeth: 'Go down, Moses
Way down in Egypt land
Tell all Pharaoes to
Let My People Go!'

So Moses went to Egypt land...
Let My People Go!

He made all Pharaoes understand...
Let My People Go!
Yes The Lord said 'Go down, Moses
Way down in Egypt land
Tell all Pharaoes to
Let My People Go!'

Thus spoke the Lord, bold Moses said:
-Let My People Go!
'If not I'll smite, your firstborn's dead'
-Let My People Go!

God-The Lord said 'Go down, Moses
Way down in Egypt land
Tell all Pharaoes to
Let My People Go!'

Tell all Pharaoes
To
Let My People Go

Do you really mean to tell me that white slave masters were flogging slaves (sometimes killing them) for singing these songs and reading the bible, holding prayers or daring to attend their churches while at the same time forcing them into the faith that was inspiring these things? Please get real.

the right to freedom and wanting equal rights are BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS. You don't need religion to want to be free.

This part just makes me laugh because you equally don't need religion to be a slave master. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot claim on one hand that slave masters were inspired by Christianity only to write off the same Christianity when presented with evidence that slavery abolitionists were inspired by their deeply held Christian faith (then all of a sudden you play the humanity card)
Once again, please get real.

plaetton: This is absolutely nonsense.
This is what all you mindless uncle toms use to console yourself and heal your conscience.
" my Christianity is the best christianity" or " Their christianity was not the good christianity".

If there exists, or ever existed a bad christianity, then christanity, in whatever form , is inherently bad.

Poor logic. This is just as bad as saying if there ever existed a bad cake, then cakes in what ever form are inherently bad.

If the white slave traders that converted their slaves to christianity did not see anything wrong with it, if the pius catholic priests cannot see anything wrong while molesting children, if the Adeboyes, Oyedepos, the Oyahkilomes, etc, cannot see anything wrong in fleecing the poor, then on which planet can one find this "GOOD" christianity that is truly representative of Jesus?

One is only a Christian to the extent he or she imitates Christ and not how well the person imitates "pastors" and "preists"

This christianity, or that chrstianity is never good enough, that is why we have over 10,000 denominations of christianity.

As a thinking person, does that not strike you, even for a second, that something might be inherently wrong with christianity?.

As a thinking person, I don't see why I should write off a product because there are many imitations of it. In fact I would think that quality products tend to have the most imitations.

plaetton: Obviously so.

What?? Obviously so?? Do you even have any idea what you are saying??

It does not take away their individual contributions.

I don't think you know what an uncle tom is. let me help you:

An "Uncle Tom" is a black man who will do anything to stay in good standing with "the white man" including betray his own people.

Now please tell me exactly how a christian anti-slavery activist like Martin Luther King Jr fits that description. Also, is Barack Obama claiming to be an Uncle Tom when he claims to be a Christian?

What exactly is your point?
Are you insinuating that the white dude is wrong or misinformed?

Yes he is wrong and he commits the false equivalence fallacy

A black christian is a walking , breathing oxymoron.
A walking contradiction.
Something that makes no sense.

Exactly how is being black and christian contradictory?

Are you surprised that the man's life is the most fragmented and confused?

You are smart enough to understand that, but too ashamed to admit it.

I don't think you have the slightest idea what you are talking about. Please don't let your anti-religious bigotry get the better of you.

Logicboy03: You are very shallow.

Too shallow to realise that a person can fight one version of slavery and accept another.

black Christian aboligionists are the example.


Get smart bro

This reply still doesn't show how a black christian opposing the white man's tyranny is equivalent to doing anything to please the white man including betraying his fellow black men.

If you cannot back up your claim, you have no business making it.

hisblud: *clears throat*

I wish to end this discuss because it has being shown that frosbel and his clan of friends have not shown, beyond any reasonable doubt, that Yashua is not Elohim.

According to Heb 1.8,



God is speaking about His Son, Whom God address as God, Whose throne is for forever and ever! period!

I would open a general thread for another interesting discussion.

Peace!

In addition to that God says that His Son created the Heavens and the earth in verse 10. Frosbel and co have not shown beyond reasonable doubt that the Father is referring to anyone else other than the Son.

^^^Thanks CarCam, I'm not that fussed about where we meet. I'm up for Potter's field too. Common guys, who else agrees?

Logicboy03:

You are trying too hard to convince yourself. Sorry, you were the one that changed the topic and in the process, shot yourself in the foot.

I'm sorry I wasted my time on you.


An uncle tom is a black man who will do anything to stay in good standing with "the white man" including betray his own people.

You have claimed that every Christian black man is an uncle tom.

I have presented you with Christian black men who have explicitly opposed the white man's oppression.

You have claimed they are uncle toms regardless of the fact that they clearly defy the definition

I have asked you to show evidence of why you think they are uncle toms

You have shown none. Shame on you

Logicboy03: FAIL! FAIL! FAIL!

Science is both a body of knowledge and a method of inquiry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

point taken

No one claimed/implied that it is material or measurable! stop this anonyism.

You had no points and nothing to say.

So how do you go about scientifically examining something you cannot measure? Isn't it funny how you demand a scientific answer to an unscientific question?

Even your own analogies fail you


The eye generates the sight while the brain interprets it just like the ear hears while the brain interprets it just like the car travels as long as it moves from one place to the other.


The brain calculates and thinks on its own as well. Unless you want to now claim that you consciously slow down your breathing during sleep or you calculate the pace of bodily functions when you are asleep.




GIVE UP, Anony. your points are nonsensical

smh, knowledge is really wasted on you

Logicboy03: Anony, thanks for even exposing more uncle toms and making my point-

Even Frederic Douglass admits that christianity has a wicked and corrupt side which deals with slavery. He then chooses to ignore that and practice the "sweet" side of christianity.


Thanks for hanging yourself on your own shoe lace

I think you should open an English dictionary and find out the meaning of the word "hypocritical".

By the way I noticed that you did not show how Frederic Douglas was an "Uncle Tom" but rather moved on to an unrelated argument that says nothing about how his being black and christian makes him an uncle tom.

Since you are so eager to change the topic, do I take it that you are conceding the point? If not then stay on topic and address the issue. Any further attempt to sneak away will be taken as a concession on your part that you really have no case to make.

Logicboy03: Lol....but Anony can explain it better than science- he can even tell that this subjective reality is beyond and outside the brain. He has researched well in Anonyism.

Science is not a body of knowledge, it is a method of inquiry. Wise up dude.

Stop this Anonyism. The fact remains that there is no consciousness without the brain in science. None. Unless you have one single scientific journal that shows that consciousness can be outside the brain.

You spea as if consciousness is a material thing that can be scientifically measured, it isn't.

BTW; "subjective reality" is a function of the brain. Olodo. I wonder how you can observe reality without your brain in the first place.

Erhm no it isn't - at least not in the sense you are trying to use it. Try this thought experiment.

Is it your eye that generates sight or is your eye the tool you use for sight?
Is it your ears that hears or is your ear the tool you use for hearing?
Is it your car that travels or is your car the tool you use for traveling?
Is it your piano that generates music or is your piano the tool you use for creating music?
Is it your brain that thinks you or is your brain your tool for thinking?

Logicboy03: You mean secular reasoning?


Face it. You are following a slave master religion. A religion that supports slavery in its holy books and was used to subdue your forefathers.


Uncle Tom

Your inability to show that Martin Luther King as well as all the numerous Black Christian abolitionists and equal rights activists are "Uncle Toms" is telling and very embarrassing for you.

Mockery does not count as evidence. If you cannot back up your claim then shame on you.

I find, since reading over the foregoing Narrative, that I have, in several instances, spoken in such a tone and manner, respecting religion, as may possibly lead those unacquainted with my religious views to suppose me an opponent of all religion. To remove the liability of such misapprehension, I deem it proper to append the following brief explanation. What I have said respecting and against religion, I mean strictly to apply to the "slave holding religion" of this land, and with no possible reference to Christianity proper; for, between the Christianity of this land, and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference--so wide, that to receive the one as good, pure, and holy, is of necessity to reject the other as bad, corrupt, and wicked. To be the friend of the one, is of necessity to be the enemy of the other. I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ: I therefore hate the corrupt, slave holding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. Indeed.

- Frederick Douglass (1818-1895) Black Christian Abolitionist and Former slave. . . . . .and according to Logicboy an "Uncle Tom"

Logicboy03: He was a christian. Did you not watch the video or are you just emotionally butthurt?

Circular reasoning

Logicboy03: I wonder when DeepSight will come and tell the truth about his buddy Anony.

Irrelevant ad hominem fallacy

Logicboy03: Anony has claimed what science (neuroscience and psychology) have never confirmed or even agreed with in the slightest. I am yet to find a scientific journal that deals with consciousness without the use of the brain.

Lol really? Science can't even explain exactly how the human being happens to have a subjective reality. So what's your point?

Shameless lying Anony

Another ad hominem fallacy

Logicboy03: lol.....are you pained by the truth? Black christians = Uncle Toms

In addition to being an uncle tomly christian, Martin Luther King was an adulterer

smh...And your evidence that Martin Luther King Jr was an "Uncle Tom" is.....?

Logicboy03: Hey! Jesu Christi!


(In Fela's voice)
Anony, you be liar
I no be liar
You dey anonynize
I no dey anonynize

Anony.....just look at what you have written in bold.

Only a liar of epic proportions will claim that your "subjective self" is outside the brain or can exist without the brain.


Bookmarking this thread......the end of Anony is nigh

Yawn....You are beginning to sound like a broken record.

Logicboy03:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLwUA3CHumk


So, christians, do you agree?

Logicboy03: They cant handle the truth!

[size=13pt]So according to you and the bumbling id[color=#000000]io[/color]t in the video, Martin Luther King Jr and Rosa Parks e.t.c. were equally Uncle Tom house negro slaves?

It amazes me the amount of infantile trash that passes for "reason" in your world.[/size]

P/s: When people ignore your thread, please don't flatter yourself. Some of us just sadly shake our heads and walk away.

Bidam: Maybe if you were in Jesus era,this scripture would have applied to you.John 10:33
"We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."


It's an idiom,meaning that you should believe what the word of God says and not reason it out like the pharisee of Jesus era.

Thank you sir. Please tell him.

Frank4YAHWEH: I do not have to force Scipture to proclaim that FATHER Yahweh is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM", since Scripture already clearly says and teaches this.

Good, we both agree that God created the all things that exist

And you choose to use a translation from Moffatt to prove your point. You also use other translations other than the Moffatt translation, right? Nothing wrong with comparing diverse translations!

yeah but I don't jump from translation to translation in order to force a point I let the text speak for itself.

"Yahshua IS Yahweh"? You certainly will not find that quote said in ANY translation of Scripture. And not in the Moffatt translation either! This is a quote from deceived Trintarians and not from Scripture!

Lol but the bible makes that profoundly clear. that's exactly what it says in Hebrews 1 or what else do you think the passage was saying?

I know for a fact that that passage in Hebrews refers to FATHER Yahweh and not to His SON Yahshua when it says "You did found the earth at the beginning, Yahweh, and the heavens are the work of Your hands they will perish, but You remain."

Then you are being willfully blind because the passage starts by clearly proclaiming that it is referring to the Son.

The same is said of FATHER Yahweh in Psalm 102:25 and in verse 22 of this passage the word translated as "God" is in reference to FATHER Yahweh as can be clearly seen by comparing the content to verse 21 where many translations eliminate His Name Yahweh and substitute it for the inferior title "the LORD."

Exactly, it is because the same is said of the Father and the Son that we come to the conclusion that the father and Son are both equally God.

Since you believe "Yahshua IS Yahweh", then you must also believe that it is possible for mere men to execute FATHER Yahweh by nailing Him to a pagan cross. Poppycock!

We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:23)

Yes I believe that God took the form of a man and was crucified for our sake bearing upon himself the rightful judgment of wrath that our sins deserve.

BTW, I don't smoke!

Lol, you probably missed the expression

Logicboy03: ^^^
There you have it. A dubious liar that will claim 2moro that he is living a christ like life.

Interesting that you know the life of Christ to be the life of honesty

First of all no one bought this your evidence- not me, or Wiegraff or Plaetton or Majaze or Uyi Iredia orGeneral Shepherd. The last two are theists (not atheists)

bandwagon fallacy. "We don't agree with you therefore what you are saying must be untrue" is not a valid argument.

Secondly, your evidence is a lie and very silly. Does the "subjective you" exist outside the brain? Does your "subjective you" work when your brain is impaired? The simple answer is "NO"

I have already addressed this clearly. Your subjective self is distinct from your brain. Even when your brain is impaired, your subjective self remains. That is how you are able to know the limitations to the capabilities of your brain in the first place.

You have provided no evidence or reason to show that consciousness exists outside the brain.

Erhm, I have provided evidence to show that consciousness(you) is distinct from the brain. You have not provided a single shred of evidence to prove that it isn't.
Furthermore, you have even conceded previously that you control some of your brain's activities. I really wonder what the "evidence" you are seeking is supposed to look like.

You are a psychopathic liar. Gaddem

I wonder what calling me a pyschopath and a liar has to do with the validity of your argument.